IPR Interview: Joshua Fauver Talks About Constitution Party National Committee Meeting in Baltimore

Joshua Fauver is a Constitution Party activist from Louisiana. He is the Vice-Chairman of the Clarion Call to Unite Committee (CCTUC). He is also the Southeast Regional Coordinator for Robby Wells’s 2016  presidential campaign. In March of this year, he announced his candidacy for the Louisiana House of Representatives in the 21st District in 2015. Here’s his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/JoshuaFauverforStateRep

 

  • Krzysztof Lesiak

    Alright. So, before we get into what transpired in Baltimore, could you tell us about your involvement with the CP, like how long you have been involved, what your positions are/were, and also a little bit about your 2015 campaign for Louisiana state representative?

  • Sure. I became involved in the Constitution Party officially in April of 2012. I had begun talking to them in March of that year an agreed to become more involved after the Louisiana Republican caucus as I was still interning for the Youth For Ron Paul Campaign. I actively campaigned on behalf of Virgil Goode after the caucus. I held the position of Chairman of the Young Constitutionalists very briefly and have recently announced my intentions to run for State Representative in Louisiana’s 21st district. Our current representative is a two term incumbent Democrat who has never been challenged outside of his own party so I feel really good about my chances.

  • Krzysztof Lesiak

    Ok. So how did you feel going into Balitmore’s meeting on April 20th? What were your expecations?

  • I felt good going into the Baltimore meeting on April 20th. I had sat in the executive national committee meeting on the 19th, and nothing of any real dire concern was brought up. My expectations were that things would be normal. I had seen the agenda, we had received one when we registered for the meeting and I was expecting we would follow it and things would be relatively normal.

  • How many people (estimate) were there at Saturday’s meeting? What states had the biggest representation, if you know this info? Was there general enthusiasm in the crowd, considering this was months after Virgil Goode’s surprising under-performance in the election?

  • I believe the estimate was something like 53 people. It was around 50. I honestly couldn’t tell you what state had the largest representation.I would say the enthusiasm was good. A lot of people were excited about what Jenifer Young has going on in her state and the progress she is making there.

  • Is she Wyoming’s state chair?

  • I believe so. Yes.

  • Ok. So what was the first major thing to happen once the meeting was called into session? Was it the topic of Young Constitutionalists?

  • I couldn’t tell you that. I was about an hour late to the meeting on the 20th.

  • Ok, so what was the topic being discussed at hand when you came in?

  • Don Shrader was discussing party building when I came in.

  • Alright, according to my article, Young Constitutionalists was dissolved. It was supposed to be the youth arm of the CP per my understanding. You were its chairman. Why was it decided to be dissolved? Was there any opposition to this?

  • I knew the topic was going to be discussed. Randy Stufflebeam had a discussion about it Friday night. There were stipulations in the resolution passed in St. Louis that we had not noticed to be totally honest. We failed to meet those stipulations. We knew we would most likely be dissolved on Saturday, but I don’t know if there was opposition to dissolving the organization. It must have been done during the first hour of the meeting, during my absence. No one provided me with any details on the matter after it happened.

  • So what were some of those stipulations? And what was your reaction to finding about this dissolution happening before you arrived at the meeting?

  • Well, like I said, Randy and I talked about it Friday night. I knew it was going to happen, I wish I had been there for it, but I knew it was going to happen. Some of the stipulations were having by laws and such drawn up by the Spring meeting. Something both Randy and I failed to get done.

  • So there were never any Young Constitutionalist college chapters being discussed ( I assume this would be part of the organization’s goal)?

  • We were certainly discussing them. I was contacted by several college aged students who were interested in starting a chapter on their campuses. Problems with prioritizing time arose for me when I became involved with Free and Equal and I know Randy was running an exploratory committee for a Senate campaign, and had the day to day responsibilities of being the vice chairman of the party. I’m aware it isn’t a great excuse, but the bylaws just didn’t happen.

  • Ok. Now to the huge issue, the Clarion Call to Unite Committee (CCTUC). Were you representing them? Why did the CP overwhelmingly pass a resolution saying that they won’t support or affiliate with the CCTUC and its efforts? Did this come as a surprise to you?

  • You might say I was representing them. I wasn’t there to do that however. I went to represent Louisiana. I can’t tell you why the C.P voted on a resolution saying the will not support our efforts. I wasn’t there. This too was done during that one hour period when I was not present. It wasn’t on the agenda they had given us, nothing discussed alluded to the idea it would come up during the meeting on the 20th. In fact, I asked Mrs. Joan Castle if anything of any real importance would come up, she said not to her knowledge. In fact, I didn’t even discover that this resolution was voted on until this afternoon, which is shocking to me. Both Randy and Frank knew full well I supported this matter and didn’t even bother telling me after my arrival that it had been voted on.

  • At least one individual told me the CCTUC was rejected because Robby Wells, a 2016 independent presidential candidate, is involved with it. You and Cody Quirk are involved with Well’s efforts to a degree to, as is Constitution Party of VA co chair Aaron Lyles, who is Well’s co campaign manager and Virgil Goode’s second cousin. Apparently, the person I talked to believed Wells isn’t widely liked in the CP. Do you think that because of him CCTUC was not endorsed by the party?

  • Being that no on from the party told me anything about the matter I don’t believe I can answer that question accurately. But perhaps the idea has merit, as long time party activist Darrel Castle did announce his interests in seeking the party’s nomination in 2016 on the same day the CCTUC chose not to endorse the efforts of the CCTUC. Though I can’t say that is the case, perhaps it is. I don’t know. Again, no one from the party informed me of the vote to begin with.

  • The C.P chose not to endorse the efforts of the CCTUC I mean.

  • Do you think Wells will seek the CP nod in 2016? I believe he said he’s running independent now as part of the CCTUC efforts to bring in people and then come back into the CP. If he doesn’t, Castle will likely be the nominee. What’s your opinion of Castle representing the party as its presidential candidate?

  • That will have to be a decision that is made closer to 2016. Right now Robby is concerned with getting his name out there and building a team and support across the country. As far as Mr. Castle goes, I don’t him well enough to make an informed opinion on him as the party’s candidate.

  • What do you think overall of the CP’s meeting? Was it productive and successful? What does the CCTUC plan on doing now?

  • Obviously my opinion of the meeting has changed as the report on the vote I was unaware of came in. I’m not happy at all with what transpired in Baltimore. I was totally blindsided when I found out about the resolution that was passed. I would hardly call their decision not to endorse our efforts a success. I think it will hinder the growth of the party. I believe we are going to continue our efforts at unifying the parties. I still believe it is necessary for our goal of restoring constitutionally limited government. We will continue with or without the Constitution Party’s blessing.

  • Anything that you think we missed, that you would like to add?

  • No, I think that about covers it.

  • Thanks for your time.

112 thoughts on “IPR Interview: Joshua Fauver Talks About Constitution Party National Committee Meeting in Baltimore

  1. mARS

    I’d be willing to bet that Castle and Cynthia Davis are the CP ticket in 2016. Robby Wells will most likely seek the nomination, though. Since he’s very entertaining to watch, I kind of wish that he’d seek the nominations of multiple parties at once, even those with little to no ideological overlap.

  2. Trent Hill

    “Our current representative is a two term incumbent Democrat who has never been challenged outside of his own party so I feel really good about my chances.”

    This speaks to the political naivity Fauver seems to have. He hasn’t been challenged outside of his party because his district is HEAVILY democratic. If you’re the lone opposition, you won’t rise higher than 40%.

    And now he’s running for State Rep when he couldn’t get a Young Constitutionalists club to even write bylaws–indeed he didn’t even know they needed to be? Seems odd.

    No way Wells gets on more than like…6 state ballots. Less than 25k votes, definitely.

  3. Trent Hill

    The question has been begged, so i’ll ask it–why were you an hour late, causing you to miss these two important resolutions your voice would’ve been pretty important on?

  4. Joshua Fauver

    I’ll be perfectly honest as to why I was late. I flew in the day before, and my plane was delayed 6 hours which led to me getting in way behind schedule, to be exact I got to my hotel at 6 Friday morning. Then attending the executive committee meeting Friday and having a talk with randy and getting back to my hotel room late I slightly over slept. But seeing how neither of these resolutions were on the agenda, I had no way of knowing what I missed and they certainly didn’t volunteer any information. But that’s okay Trent let’s focus on the fact I was late, that’s what is really important after all.

  5. Cody Quirk

    Obviously from Josh’s long fight, he wanted to sleep in perhaps, since there was nothing in particular in the written agenda.

    And being a college student, he’s juggling a lot on his plate right now, and even if he failed to live up to those particular duties, nevertheless what the CP did was serious overkill and very, very counter-productive.

    Since when did we become that arrogant and pompous fleece sweater-wearing blonde jock from those 80’s teen flicks, Trent?

  6. Trent Hill

    Cody, I remember attending these national committee meetings as a full time student and working two jobs–I slept just a few hours, but I got to meetings on time.

    I don’t own any fleece sweaters, and I’m dirty blonde. Not trying to be arrogant or pompous–just trying to spell out the political reality of the situation.

  7. Rod Stern

    ” I kind of wish that he’d seek the nominations of multiple parties at once, even those with little to no ideological overlap.”

    Just like in 2012?

  8. Jeremy C. Young

    Look, I don’t like Robby Wells either — he’s kind of the Wayne Root of the Constitutionalist movement, and I think it was a mistake for Cody to get him involved in CCTUC. That said, I fail to understand why the CP doesn’t think CCTUC is a good idea. Obviously the Constitutionalist movement is fragmenting in ways that directly hurt the CP and its hope of getting electorally noticed. As far as I can tell, there isn’t a substantial issues-based disagreement anywhere among these parties, except for with the few people who are personally loyal to Alan Keyes (who doesn’t seem to be involved in politics any more, BTW). To me, uniting the parties and getting California ballot access back should be the overriding goal here, not worrying about Robby Wells. Realistically, the CP is way bigger than any of these other tiny parties anyway, so they will dominate any union of the parties.

  9. Trent Hill

    @9, they aren’t opposed to the mission of CCTUC, only to the personalities driving the conversation.

    I agree getting back the CA ballot access is high priority and talks should go on with the national IAP and some other groups. I don’t think anyone in the CP really disagrees with that. This is a matter of strategy and method, not theoretical opposition.

  10. Rod Stern

    ” they aren’t opposed to the mission of CCTUC, only to the personalities driving the conversation.”

    Aren’t personality issues the reason why the other CP-like microparties exist in the first place?

  11. Rod Stern

    That’s entirely possible, even probable. But then that undermines the whole point of a CTUCC in the first place.

  12. Jill Pyeatt

    TH @ 13: ” Some people cannot be worked with–that’s a reality of third party politics”

    Take it from someone much older than you: “Some people cannot be worked with–that’s a reality of life!”

  13. Jeremy C. Young

    Trent @11, I know they don’t like the personalities involved, but has there been any actual movement in the CP to hold talks with these other groups? I do remember that Virgil Goode went to the California AIP nominating convention and tried to win their nomination, only to be humiliated and passed over in favor of Tom Hoefling. I’m sure that made the CP plenty angry (hell, it made ME angry), but the reality is that losing that ballot line effectively erased Goode from the national conversation, and getting it back should be worth almost anything to the CP. It doesn’t strike me that this is the time to be dickering over personalities. If Wayne Root owned the California LP ballot line, I’d say the LP should give him whatever he wants; if Ralph Nader owned the California GP ballot line, I’d say the GP should give him whatever he wants. It’s just too important to delay any further, whatever they think of Quirk, Seidenberg, Wells, et al.

  14. Jeremy C. Young

    Well, I hope those talks, or these talks, or some talks do the trick before 2016…or else the Constitutionalist movement risks going the way of the fragmented Socialist left.

  15. Rod Stern

    @19 Might be a case of irreconcilable differences: foreign policy and/or plain spite. If they were willing to work it out, wouldn’t they have said what their conditions are by now? Some people will never agree to work together no matter what.

  16. Joshua Fauver

    Well Rod and Jeremey, Cody and I were both on a call on April 13th with the leadership of some of the parties being targeted by the CCTUC. We had a great call. A lot was accomplished and those involved agreed that the constitutionalists movement has to be unified in so form or fashion. This was made known to the C.P, and just one week later they adopted the resolution stating they don’t think it in their best interest and they don’t wan to be affiliated with it. So that should tell you how they feel about unification and getting ballot access back in California.

  17. Rod Stern

    I’m not going to speculate as to who is at fault, but I doubt they will overcome their differences.

  18. peter gemma

    @9 & 19
    Why would the CP want to deal with the cads and nut cases who run the California American Independent Party, and Tom Hoefling of Alan Keyes fame? And then there’s the fledgling Independent American Party who, as they talk unity, are right now trying to get ballot access in Utah – in direct competition with the CP. Add to the mix Robby Wells, and the brew is something no dedicated, knowledgeable third party advocate would get near.

  19. Rod Stern

    “Why would the CP want to deal with the cads and nut cases who run the California American Independent Party, and Tom Hoefling of Alan Keyes fame?”

    Because California ballot access is a big deal. Whether any kind of deal is possible is a separate question. The fact that it hasn’t already happened leads me to think that it’s not.

  20. Trent Hill

    Rod–they’ve done just about all that can be done. I can’t speak to specifics, but I do know that the CP has been very generous in their talks with the CA-AIP.

  21. Rod Stern

    Well, Joshua and Cody said they had a “great call” and a lot was accomplished, but I have to ask what exactly was accomplished. Also, it’s easy to have a great call; follow through in the real world is much more difficult. Actions speak louder than words.

  22. Martin Franklin

    A wasted effort since they have shut out the American Freedom Party. It is only when the Constitutionalists and AFP unite that they can form a united front of the core Ron Paul supporters, Christian Conservatives and White Nationalists that are the backbone of America and represent the true views of our Founding Fathers. We must do it to preserve Western Civilization, Christendom and the White Race, our remaining time is short!!!!!!!!!!

  23. Cody Quirk

    #13, yes that’s correct; we’ve already come across it a few times, and simply move on.
    However the parties that we are dealing with are the ones that can be worked with and reasoned with.

  24. Cody Quirk

    #20 & #27, yes there were previous talks between the AIP & the CP; I know because I was involved in those talks as well!
    -and we almost got the AIP back at one point until the matter of Nancy Chiasson (Shearer) came up when the CP gave her an award for her political service in the party, and since the AIP leadership still had hard feelings against her at the time, they decided to end negotiations, and so we went on our merry ways.

    However, that was years ago and Mrs. Chiasson lives in Canada now, so things have changed. And since we have started talking to them again, Seidenberg and Robinson have been receptive and willing to work together with us, in addition of positively contributing to our April 13th meeting as well, so despite the issues that happened in the past, we are willing to give them a chance see how things work out; being that the AIP is ballot qualified and has nearly half a million registered voters in California alone.
    (And regardless of whether Californians register AIP for only the name- those numbers are what they are).

    So regardless of how one feels personally about Mr. Robinson and Seidenberg- it is vital to reach out to the AIP, and nevertheless it can sometimes be counterproductive to hold a long-term grudge in politics.

  25. Rod Stern

    I’m skeptical that Seidenberg and Robinson really want to play ball, even if they talk a good game. They brought out Virgil Goode to meet with them and kiss their ring, and then nominated Hoefling anyway. And just in the last few weeks Seindenberg has been playing games on IPR, trying to create chaos for the tiny California CP out of pure spite.

  26. Ken Gibbs

    I have been an observer of events over the past months. No offense to Cody and the much needed talks of cooperation. I see that way too many folks are simply locked into their own little political habits and are unwilling to give an inch to see a larger victory down the road.
    If ego is the first order of the day, why debate it here? Everyone can just move along in all of the different directions and the enemy wins by default. I believe that cooperation can be done and well. I also believe that unification is achievable, sooner than later. I have found that if we spend all of our time splitting hairs, all you get is split ends.
    Find a common ground, agree to the level of common it represents and then get on with the FACTS at hand. The enemy, both Dems and Repubs are laughing their collective socialist behinds off at us.
    Can “We the People” really find faith and trust in what has transpired thus far? I am trying too.

  27. Cody Quirk

    Mr. Gemma, and if you are the real Peter Gemma, I have to say it’s really sad reading your above comments, because you completely lack the understand of the situation with these parties like I do; as I have already been talking to these various parties for months now.

    First off, I already explained my reasons for talking with the AIP (ballot access and organizational strength, along with having 98% in common with them and their platform).

    The National IAP has ballot-access in New Mexico, and one hell of a good webmaster, and not only have been receptive to our message, but support the CCTUC’s goal. Now I don’t necessarily agree with them trying to get on the ballot in Utah at the moment, but if the efforts of the CCTUC succeeded- they did indicate to us that they would then consider suspending their ballot access efforts in Utah, if and when that happens. Plus Kelly Gneiting has constantly reached out to the CP in friendship, especially to Frank Fluckiger- only to be snubbed and largely ignored by the leadership in the CP, I notice.

    On the matter of Robby Wells, while he has helped us every now and then; we have plenty of members of the CCTUC that do not support his campaign and even dislike him personally, yet if Robby is willing to offer us assistance, then we’re willing to accept it.
    However I have constantly stated that the CCTUC is NOT in cahoots, or coordinates with Robby Wells and his campaign, so how many f**king times do I have to state the obvious?!
    Even though I admit I’m sympathetic to Mr. Wells (I didn’t used to be until I talked to him and studied his stances on the issues), if critics of him and/or his campaign still want to join and actively work with the CCTUC, then they’re welcome to and can also support or even champion their choice for 2016 on our facebook page, in fact a supporter of Darrell Castle shared a link to his facebook, page on ours, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

    So if anyone thinks that we’re a front for, or in cahoots with, Robby Wells, then please read my answer on the fourth question that Chris asked in our first interview-
    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/01/ipr-exclusive-interview-with-cody-quirk-nevada-cp-activist-seeking-to-unite-all-constitutionalist-parties/

    -and if anyone is unconvinced, then all I’ll say is that it must be lonely wearing a tinfoil hat and hiding in a underground bunker waiting for ‘The Leader’ to return from Blisstonia in his magic spaceship.

    However, if the Baltimore meeting happened exactly how Joshua described it in this interview above; where the national leadership and others actually rigged the vote and threw Joshua, along with any chance of having and a youth group for the CP, under the bus- then the National CP is in very, VERY serious trouble now.

  28. Cody Quirk

    Rod, I understand, and we are being meticulous on our negotiation efforts with the parties.

    However, I do fault the CP for not removing Don Grundmann’s contact info right away, and in not being aware of the mess that he was causing on IPR for the party, especially when he was deliberately lying about his position in the California CP.

    I’ve heard that Don had also taken his criticism of Robinson and Seidenberg to a level of physical stalking, harassment, and physical threats against them and their associates.

    And I believe that since Grundmann has also sent me several threatening emails over me outing him on IPR, that I’m considering sharing with the legal authorities too.

  29. Cody Quirk

    I understand where you’re coming from Ken and agree with you on the last two paragraphs.
    However the parties that we have gotten on board do want to cooperate and work together to find a way to unite, and we are building, or trying to build bridges with one another as well and strengthen the current bridges that we have with one another.

  30. Cody Quirk

    #11- I’m well aware of that, and well aware that the majority of those CP’ers that voted for that unannounced & unscheduled resolution did so because of the explanation that was offered to them about the past animosity and fighting between the CP and these other parties, along with general skepticism.

    Yes, I get how some people in the CP can’t let old go of grudges and animosities that easily, or that silly paranoia of the idea that the CP could get taken over or destroyed if it worked with the CCTUC and unified with these other parties.

    And yes, I understand those feelings and mentalities, and its why we’ve been constantly talking to these parties, along with seeing the parties have friendly dialogue with each other, as we did at our meeting on the 13th.

    And if this resolution that the CP voted on in Baltimore was listed on the agenda and/or made known to us or the general public, along with conducting the debate and vote on it in a fair manner where Josh could’ve been afforded the chance to speak- and if it still passed, then while we would’ve been disappointed, we simply would’ve made it a better effort to talk to the leaders and active members of the CP afterwards and simply waited to present our case again at the next national committee meeting.

    However, what happened instead was this- we were in the dark about this resolution that the CP voted on (it wasn’t on the agenda, none of the CP national leaders or any other CP’er said anything about it to us), and voted on in a way where voices of dissent were intentionally excluded and afterwards mislead about the unethical and manipulative vote on not just the resolution dealing with the CCTUC, but on a unfortunate certain someone and his inability to meet a few silly and heavy-handed deadlines for the CP youth group (never mind he’s in college and has a ton on his plate right now), and especially that the CP did away with having a youth group!

    As outraged that I, and many others in the CP, are at the moment, with word of how the Baltimore meeting was conducted, along with the treatment that Joshua Fauver received from the Party leadership and others, (and especially how I was lied to on the phone by one of the national officers of the CP about what happened in Baltimore) is now going to spread- actions like these are serious and disturbing to the point that the best course for me, and the other pissed off constitutionalists, is to think about, and approach this matter in a sober and rational manner.

  31. Rod Stern

    “And I believe that since Grundmann has also sent me several threatening emails over me outing him on IPR, that I’m considering sharing with the legal authorities too.”

    Stay safe. He’s crazier than shit, and while I don’t know if he is actually dangerous, he might be.

  32. Trent Hill

    “and others actually rigged the vote and threw Joshua, along with any chance of having and a youth group for the CP, under the bus- then the National CP is in very, VERY serious trouble now.”

    Rigged the vote, how? Joshua didnt even imply that.

  33. Davis Forest Duke

    “The enemy, both Dems and Repubs are laughing their collective socialist behinds off at us.”

    Those are just the puppets, reveal and confront the ZIONIST behind both of them or remain pawns in their game, GOYIM!!!!!!!!!

  34. Cody Quirk

    Josh stated how the resolution was not listed on the meeting agenda and neither he, nor I, or anyone supportive of the CCTUC, were informed about this proposed resolution at all, or of the vote that they took on it- and right afterwards didn’t say anything about it to him in order to mislead.

    There is no question that this vote was highly manipulated and one-sided, as well as the matter of Josh not just getting voted out of his leadership position with the CP, but the disbandment of the Young Constitutionalist organization as well, which was also conducted in the same manner.

    So my conclusion on this is quite correct.

    It is more then obvious that the national leadership of the CP is so opposed to the CCTUC, and dedicated idealists like Joshua Fauver, that in order to maintain their ‘status quo’ of how the party runs and conducts itself (regardless of what flaws and imperfections that dwell in it), and to be protected from imaginary enemies- they reverted to those unethical and dirty tactics that are all to common in the two major parties, especially against those CP’ers that propose any form of helpful, and logical change that goes against their ‘status quo’.

    So by the manner in which they conducted the Baltimore meeting, they have become no different then the Republicans now.

  35. Pingback: CCTUC Issues Statement on the Current Situation within the National Constitution Party | Independent Political Report: Third Party News

  36. Mark Seidenberg

    Cody Quirk

    Are you stating that the National Constitution Party does not what a youth organization in
    High School and College campuses? How was
    the YC organized?

    When I was in College in the 1960’s there were
    lots of choices in the Republican Youth Movement. At that time I was a Republican , before I joined the AIP. I joined both TAR’s
    and TAM’s in my high school years.

    TAR’s [Teenage Republican’s was organized by
    both National and State organizations]. TAM’s
    [Teenage Members of the United Republican’s
    of California was organized within UROC
    itself.]

    If the national CP does not want control of a
    youth movement, why not organize by each of
    the several state parties?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  37. Cody Quirk

    The Nevada IAP already has a youth group- I’m its Chairman, and I’m also the State Youth Chairman of my state party
    (Doesn’t say so on our website since both parts of it haven’t been updated yet, and other parts of it are under construction.)
    So far we have a few others in the YIA and also a contact for UNR.

    However I organized it on my own, and as for our… national affiliate, I still can’t understand why they’re trying to kill their own party.

  38. Trent Hill

    “Josh stated how the resolution was not listed on the meeting agenda and neither he, nor I, or anyone supportive of the CCTUC, were informed about this proposed resolution at all, or of the vote that they took on it- and right afterwards didn’t say anything about it to him in order to mislead.”

    Oh, you mean that resolutions weren’t listed in the meeting agenda (None of them were–resolutions are not listed independently on the schedule as that would take up too much space) and the creators of the resolutions didn’t inform their possible opposition of the vote (duh) and then Joshua didn’t show up to the meeting on time?

    Seriously not sure that you know what “rigged” means.

  39. Rod Stern

    Does a national CP youth group actually have to have permission from the national party to operate? What could they do about it if you run one? As far as I know there is no power they have to keep student clubs from forming or creating their own umbrella organization.

  40. Cody Quirk

    Well Trent, you want to keep acting like the douche blond jock from the movies, never mind you stopped caring about what goes on inside the CP some time ago, along with not commenting much here until the controversy with the Baltimore meeting erupted.

    You know, if you’re acting the way you are out of petty spite against me, then you should just let it go and move on, like I did.

    You really need to be more like the Trent from Third Party Watch.

  41. Cody Quirk

    And off of the subject, and speaking as the CCTUC National Chair in this comment- the CCTUC is still going to have it’s second meeting with the leaders of the constitutionalist parties next month on the 11th as already scheduled, regardless.
    And if the leaders of the Constitution Party still want to attend this meeting and contribute in a positive manner to its agenda, then they’re more then welcome.

  42. Trent Hill

    I’m sorry you’re disappointed with my view of what went on at the CP meeting, Cody. I have no idea what you mean by petty spite–why would I have spite against you? Have you done something to me?

    No, it’s nothing like that. I just disagree with you, Cody. Haven’t even really said anything about your efforts. I have confined my comments mostly to Joshua and Robby.

  43. Trent Hill

    and for the record: I think the CCTUC’s goal is laudable and necessary from the viewpoint of the CP and other rightwing parties. I think some questionable people are involved, definitely, and I’ve voiced that concern to you. But, *shrug*. To the best of my knowledge, I haven’t insulted you–I wish you’d extend the same courtesy to me.

  44. Cody Quirk

    Besides what I think, I already heard from several others that think you’re acting like a douche in these threads.

    If you disagree with me, that’s fine, whatever, yet your counter arguments to my arguments on the nature of how the meeting was conducted is nothing but petty skepticism and automatic dismissal.

    Do you want Josh to post a picture of the paper with the CP Baltimore meeting agenda on here or something for further evidence?
    -He could do that.

  45. Ken Gibbs

    Well Ladies and Gentlemen,

    Can a positive outcome even be possible from this back and forth? It seems more feelings got hurt than constructive work. As a fringe activist, explain to me where do we go from here? or do we?

    My involvement thus far has been light due to the very nature of some of what is going on here and now. I live in California and know what is at stake in the front lines of this war. If the council has a recommendation…please share.

    Appreciate your time…fellow Patriots

  46. Cody Quirk

    Of course the people involved with the CCTUC are not perfect, and some of them I did harbor personal animosity against a long time ago.

    Yet my being sick and f*cking tired of all these splintered parties and division of the Constitutional Right while Obama got reelected and our government is more socialistic then ever has done it for me, and I’m willing to not just eat a slice of humble pie, but the whole thing in order to unite these parties.

    We’ve also been having these meetings and intentionally have the leaders of the parties talk to one another so we could break down the barriers of mistrust and suspicion and even bury the hatchet and work things out with those that used to be bitter rivals, and that strategy has been working so far.

    So I get the reason why the CP passed that resolution, even though I think that reasoning is petty. However I, and others, are pissed off at the way the meeting was conducted and only showed the vile depth that the leaders of the CP resorted to in order to ‘keep things that way they are in the CP’.

  47. Cody Quirk

    BTW Trent, I understand you didn’t, and still don’t like Robby Wells, and that was fine by me. Again, there are plenty of those with the CCTUC that feel the same way about him too, and again, we have shared links to Darrell Caste 2016 posted on the CCTUC facebook page, and that’s ok.

    Yet you went way overboard in your criticism of him and all you did on the CCTUC fb page was attack him constantly to the point that you were completely disrupting activity on there and I had to ban you, since several members were already complaining about you in the first place.
    I mean I understand you find his political record and campaigns highly questionable, yet you were treating him almost like Don Grundmann treated the LP posters on here.

    What did he do to you that made you constantly want to bash and smear him? Seriously?

  48. Peter Gemma

    @#39
    1. LOL, Cody – no need to use “Mr.” You’ve spit my way enough times to be on a first name basis.
    2. Yes, I’m the REAL Peter Gemma … I know there’s a Bilderberger/Templar Knight out there using my name, but it’s really me.
    3. A word about NM: the nat’l IAP had zero to do with ballot access. Jon Barrie’s “Barrie Brigade” – all locals and relatives – did that. And they got 100% of the signatures to get him as the US Sen candidate, and they got him more votes than former NM Gov Johnson on Election Day. Jon Barrie took his people directly into the CP after the election: he’s now the NM CP chair, and, um, not a big fan of CCTUC to put it diplomatically.
    4. This not-on-the-agenda resolution conspiracy business is really getting silly: there is never a resolution on the order of business – only an allotted time to entertain resolutions.
    5. Look, the kid was the wrong guy for the wrong job – at the wrong time in his life. He had 4+ months to get the organization’s basic paperwork in order but didn’t. He has a number of other things on his plate ranging from CCTUC to Robby Wells to being a student. When I was his age I thought I could collect titles and slay dragons – geez was I ever wrong.
    Joshua shouldn’t view this as anything more than a simple life lesson: don’t over-reach. Now he has the freedom to pursue his other political passions … and that’s a good thing. He has talent and ambition that can be focused on what he believes in.

  49. Peter Gemma

    To see it, you’ll have to have a CP tattoo (design is only via our Chechnya office which is temporarily closed); the entire thing is in code anyway. It’s a one page document, innocent looking, but there are 117 resolutions hidden in the text.
    bwahahaha

  50. Citizen1

    The national committee was concerned that the CCTUC would require the CP to compromise its principals that is why it was rejected. I do not think that on a national level the CCTUC will be effective. I do support efforts to work together but it must be done on a state or local level. The biggest problem is that ballot access being so different in each state parties may have to give up there access in order to support the CCTUC. Therefore, in order for the CCTUC to be successful they should first seek ballot access reform.
    As far a Robby Wells is concerned any minor party of independent candidate that wants to run for President or any other office for that matter should do what he is doing. He start four years in advance, even more if you count the 2012 election cycle, building his organization and name recognition. You cannot start running in April or May of 2016 and expect to be a factor in the election unless you have a household name or a billion dollars.

  51. Rod Stern

    ” any minor party of independent candidate that wants to run for President or any other office for that matter should do what he is doing. He start four years in advance, even more if you count the 2012 election cycle, building his organization and name recognition. You cannot start running in April or May of 2016 and expect to be a factor in the election unless you have a household name or a billion dollars.”

    True. But the relentless party hopping and the fantasy that he can get any significant ballot access as an independent, much less have a chance to win, is not doing him any favors.

  52. Cody Quirk

    1- Ok then, Peter.

    2- Ah good, you had me worried there that Don Grundmann was trying to pretend to be something he’s not, again.

    3- Uh yeah, I already knew that, but you still have the IAP on the ballot there and they could easily find somebody there to run it and also run candidates… What if they ran somebody against Jon in their next elections? BTW, the feeling is mutual with Jon Barrie; while I agree he is a competent & hard working political activist, I do not like his personality or his attitude, and I’m sure he feels the same about me too, so it is what it is and he’s doing his thing and I’m doing mine. Ditto on how he feels on the CCTUC; no surprise there.

    4. Turns out there’s more to the story then what you say, and I also read your comment on facebook about how you didn’t fully know about the situation between Josh and Randy.

    5. Wow, I disagree on the first part, but whatever on the rest.

  53. Rod Stern

    Well, if he didn’t find time to write bylaws in several months, that’s a sign that he was overextended. I haven’t heard an answer on other signs of developing an organization that could be seen as having come to fruition, such as active campus chapters, money raised, speeches made etc.

    However, it strikes me as a dick move that he was not informed of the votes that affected him that took place before he got there the whole rest of the day.

    As for CCTUC itself I remain skeptical. The California AIP is not well intentioned IMO; Seidenberg continues to try to mess with the tiny California CP even though he has no reason to worry about them, so nothing has changed regardless of whatever nice words he may have told you. The other parties involved besides the CP (which is not really involved, at least no one with any power in the organization) are insignificant.

    As I said before it strikes me as disingenuous that the people who voted to oppose CCTUC “wish it well.”

  54. Cody Quirk

    Citizen1, you are wrong on that front; the CCTUC wouldn’t dare have done that- the other parties included in our efforts share the EXACT same views and beliefs as the CP does, so there would not have been any watering down of one’s own party’s principles (the CCTUC also rejected reaching out to the third parties that were both too moderate, and also too extremist). However while it may have been rejected at Baltimore based on that visible concern (despite the nature of how the meeting was conducted), I suspect certain leaders in the CP are opposed to the CCTUC for reasons not so apparent to the naked eye, IMO.
    You’re also wrong on those state parties, or national parties having to give up ballot access in order to support the CCTUC- that is ridiculous and irrational reasoning right there. For now, I do agree that the focus should be to elect constitutionalist candidates on the state & local level, and eventually the national level, once we get the electoral base built up. However we’re simply organizing a unified political party on a national basis, nothing else- ballot access isn’t our concern and there’s already groups out there working on improving ballot access laws in the states, including Free & Equal.

    But I agree with you entirely on your second paragraph; Robby may have flubbed on running for president last year, but he has learned from his mistakes and really has gotten his act together now. But I would like to note that while I’m sympathetic to him and his campaign, I’m largely holding off on cheerleading for any particular candidate for president until the time gets close to the next presidential election.

  55. Rod Stern

    “I suspect certain leaders in the CP are opposed to the CCTUC for reasons not so apparent to the naked eye, IMO.”

    Such as?

  56. Cody Quirk

    Rod, agree on the two paragraphs, though it just wasn’t a dick move, it was serious overkill to up and dump him and disband the youth group.

    How counterproductive can one’s party get?

    On the matter with the California AIP, I understand your concern, yet the situation there is complex, and we’re simply seeing in what ways we can work together and perhaps come to a general agreement. And FYI, they do have ballot access and nearly half a million Californians registered with their party (regardless of the AIP name or not), plus their platform nearly mirrors the CP’s and the other constitutionalist parties; so you just can’t snub them over past drama.

    Another thing, several of these parties are significant- the National IAP, the IGP of Virginia, the Oregon CP, and of course, the AIP does have ballot access- so I think if all of these parties got together, hopefully with the CP involved as well- then you will have the largest national third party out there, and with a rival organizational structure & stability to match the Libertarian Party itself.

    Because despite the CP having the lion’s share of organization, ballot access, and an activist base when compared to the other constitutionalist parties- nevertheless the LP and the Greens currently can run circles around the CP with how well organized, stable, and financially secure they are, compared to the CP.

    And that is the truth.

  57. Cody Quirk

    #72- IMO, simply put- they don’t want to change anything in the CP and want to maintain their positions of power, and the ‘status quo’ with how things are run and function in the party; they’re both too ignorant and arrogant to tolerate any major change or serious reform in the CP unless its done on their terms and conforms to what they think is acceptable.

    Which is why something like the CCTUC is considered as a threat, probably to the point that they pulled their little maneuvers at Baltimore simply to try to suppress it in the CP, and in a ‘convincing’ manner.

    And I’m well aware that people like Josh and me are blacklisted in the national CP because we don’t want to continue their status quo, and just a bit too “radical” and outspoken for their taste.

    But again, this is just speculation… Minus a few pieces of ‘circumstantial evidence’.

  58. Mark Seidenberg

    Rod Stern

    My aganda item is a trial of Dr. Don Grundmann.
    That is a task I to what was directed to handle by the
    State Central Committee of the AIP.I am doing.
    I personally like what Cody is doing, or trying to
    do.

    Sincerely, Marki Seidenberg

    You have the wrong idea as

  59. Jill Pyeatt

    MS @ 75: Well, a trial for Dr. Grundmann is an interesting idea. How would you get that to happen, and what would it accomplish? Please keep us advised on this. Seriously, many of us here would be very happy to follow a story like that.

  60. Rod Stern

    A “trial” of Grundmann? You should leave that to the professionals: district attorneys, psychiatrists, etc…LOL.

  61. Rod Stern

    Also, I have a hard time believing you. How does disputing the handover of leadership in the tiny California CP help you put Grundmann on trial?

  62. Mark Seidenberg

    Jill Pyeatt post # 76.

    Your question is how would “you get” a trial of
    Don “Three Dates” Grundmann to happen?

    My suggestion is you read the following book
    for the proceedures to conduct a political party
    trial.

    DEMETER’S MANUEL OF PARLIAMENTARY
    LAW AND PROCEDURES FOR THE LEGAL CONDUCT OF BUSINESS IN ALL DELIBERATIVE ASSEMBLIES, by George Demeter.

    I am a elected Manager for the Grundmann trial.

    I have contacted an AIP elector who is a professor of law at a Law School to administer the Grundmann Trial.

    If he is convicted, Dr. Grundmann could not in the future or for some period of time in the future become a member of any committee
    or hold any office within the American Independent Party. Jill does that answer you
    question?

    To. Rod Stern at post # 78.

    You asked “How does disputing the handover of
    leadership in the tiny California CP help you put
    Grundmann on trial?”

    It does not help put him on trial, it relates to the
    charges.

    It relates to Dr. Grundmann’s “removal” under
    California Election Code Section 7610.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
    trial

  63. Rob Banks

    @79 is confusing. Are you talking about something other than a government trial, with a prosecutor, defense attorney, judge (and possibly jury), court reporter, bailiff, etc., whereby someone is found guilty and put in jail or fined, or found not guilty?

  64. Mark Seidenberg

    Rob Banks to post # 80.

    You asked “are you talking about something other than a government trial…?” Yes.

    The late Wm Shearer wrote the proceedures that
    allowed the AIP to conduct trials circa 1995.

    In 2007 the AIP started the process of clarifing
    the process. The first thing we did was to comply
    with CA Election Code Section 7645.

    Thats why the AIP uses Demeter’s Manuel {Blue
    Book} to conduct a trial. On the other post, Dr.
    Don “Three Dates” Grundmann suggested his
    trial be placed on You Tube. My view as of now
    is not to do this. I want to conduct a proper
    trial not have a circus sideshow.

    I also not that Dr. Don Grundmann is now calling himself the First Chairman of the Constitution Party of California. That is why
    I would like to read the by-laws to the Constitution Party of California is so I and others
    can determine the powers of Dr. Don Grundmann in addition to the powers of his separate body parts, viz., “his lethal hands” that
    are trained to kill.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  65. Rob Banks

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Political trials held by political parties? Sounds a bit too Orwellian/Stalinist for me.

    “I also not[e] that Dr. Don Grundmann is now calling himself the First Chairman of the Constitution Party of California. ”

    I thought he meant former chairman, as in the chairman when he started it up. No?

    ” That is why
    I would like to read the by-laws to the Constitution Party of California is so I and others
    can determine the powers of Dr. Don Grundmann ”

    He has no powers. Even if he was still the chairman, the CP of California is so far away from ever getting ballot access that it would not matter. Don’t you have better things to do?

  66. Don Grundmann

    Well ladies and gentlemen, in addition to the utter corruption and literal criminality of Mark Seidenberg, which I have documented at TheCorruptionOfAlanKeys.blogspot.com, you can get a taste of his complete insanity from his postings/ravings. That is why he, by himself and even with his fellow conspirators of Noonan and Robinson, could not, and did not, pull of the demise of the AIP by himself. He had the desperately needed help of his ” patrons ” ( controllers ) from the SPLC, ADL, and Republican Party. It was a ( Adams ) family affair with Seidenberg in the role of Uncle Fenster.

    Of course he does have a lot of friends on this website since he supports homosexual marriage as many of you do.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Ist Chairman and Founder of the Constitution Party of California, the successor of the now SPLC/ADL/Republican controlled AIP

  67. Rob Banks

    ” you can get a taste of his complete insanity from his postings/ravings”

    You’d clearly be an expert on that.

    ” he supports homosexual marriage as many of you do. ”

    Pretty sure he opposes marriage equality just like you do.

  68. Mark Seidenberg

    Rod Banks

    I agree with Dr. Alan Keyes on what you refer to
    as “marriage equality”. I believe a homosexual
    marrage is not a marriage. In the words of Dr.
    Keyes it is like one eating their own snot.

    However, I do not “oppose marriage equality”.
    Nor do I agree with the views of Dr. Grundmann
    on many issues.

    However, marriage equality is not the same thing
    as Adam and Steve having homosexual relations
    supported by the state.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  69. Rod Stern

    “However, marriage equality is not the same thing
    as Adam and Steve having homosexual relations
    supported by the state.”

    Yes it is.

    And Keyes is a moral reprobate who disowned his own daughter and threw her out on the street just because she was born lesbian.

  70. Jill Pyeatt

    Thank you, Mark, for explaining the trial for Grundmann a little more clearly. I’m very interested in how that turns out, as I’m sure many IPR readers are.

    Just when I start to think you’re an okay guy, though, you said that about homosexual marriage being like eating snot. Was that really necessary? All it did was piss off people with beloved gay people in their lives.

  71. Rod Stern

    Despite their spat with each other, Grundmann and Seidenberg have the same pathological social views which they want to use the full force of the state to force on everyone else. Neither of them is anything like an “okay guy.”

  72. Mark Seidenberg

    Jill Pyeatt

    I am sorry that my use of eating one’s snot offended you. In hind sight I should of used
    “Rhinotillexomania”, but I do not think all the
    readers of this website would understand, because they are not William F. Buckley,Jr.

    I am a libertarian with the small “l”. It is not a
    reasonable purpose for the state to support character disorders such as homosexual relationship.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  73. Rod Stern

    I am a libertarian with the small “l”.

    Bullshit.

    It is not a
    reasonable purpose for the state

    To discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.

    character disorders such as homosexual relationship.

    More bullshit.

  74. Jill Pyeatt

    MS @ 89:” I am a libertarian with the small “l”. It is not a
    reasonable purpose for the state to support character disorders such as homosexual relationship.’

    Bullshit and bullshit. How dare you diagnose one of my favorite people in the world as having a character disorder. I’d match his character with yours anytime, and you’ll slink away looking like a high school bully.

    Oh, and you might to start using spell check for your comments. You also might want to keep some of your private thoughts a little more to yourself.

  75. Rod Stern

    Grundmann, Seidenberg, Keyes et al are moral reprobates for trying to force their personal mental issues and hangups about other people’s (or possibly their own) sexuality on everyone else through the force of law. What part of “consenting adults” do they not understand?

  76. Trent Hill

    “Besides what I think, I already heard from several others that think you’re acting like a douche in these threads.”

    That’s ok, I’m not too concerned with that. Several CP leaders have said I’ve got a good grasp of what’s going on. So, all depends on perspective, I guess?

    “yet your counter arguments to my arguments on the nature of how the meeting was conducted is nothing but petty skepticism and automatic dismissal.”

    Warranted skepticism, I’d say. But yes, otherwise, that’s true. You said the vote was “rigged”–and have provided no proof of that assertion. I just want to hold your feet to the fire and make you explain what you meant.

    “Do you want Josh to post a picture of the paper with the CP Baltimore meeting agenda on here or something for further evidence?”

    Sure. I’m guessing it would prove my point–that resolutions generally were to be considered and were listed on the agenda at some time prior to Joshua’s waking up. I don’t disagree that he missed out by sleeping in.

    “Of course the people involved with the CCTUC are not perfect, and some of them I did harbor personal animosity against a long time ago.”

    like not even a year ago, I’d say.

    “BTW Trent, I understand you didn’t, and still don’t like Robby Wells, and that was fine by me. Again, there are plenty of those with the CCTUC that feel the same way about him too, and again, we have shared links to Darrell Caste 2016 posted on the CCTUC facebook page, and that’s ok.”

    Wells used the page to promote his campaign or to promote himself. He did nothing to promote the values of the group–I objected to that. I’m not at all sorry that this upsets you.

    “What did he do to you that made you constantly want to bash and smear him? Seriously?”

    I don’t smear him at all. I recognize him for what he is–just the latest in a long line of third party personalities who appeared out of no-where, had a shady past, promoted himself rather than a party, ran for the highest office first, then switched to several different parties when he didn’t succeed. It’s tiresome, so I don’t bother being gentle about my casual dismissal of Mr. Wells. Want me to be really offensive? My LSU could’ve smushed any school he coached at :P

  77. Rod Stern

    From the two new articles: the resolutions were on the agenda at 8:45 AM, and were also discussed Friday night.

    Also, correct about Wells. On the other hand, I don’t think he’s ever coached in the same division as LSU, so that wouldn’t exactly be a fair contest. Come back and talk when LSU beats Alab….oops, never mind.

  78. Rod Stern

    “long line of third party personalities who appeared out of no-where, had a shady past, promoted himself rather than a party, ran for the highest office first, then switched to several different parties when he didn’t succeed. ”

    I can think of a few, but what are some examples you would compare him to?

  79. Trent Hill

    “Come back and talk when LSU beats Alab….oops, never mind.”

    Are you an Alabama fan? Gosh, that stinks, I was so hoping we could be friend.

  80. Rod Stern

    I’m more of a non-fan observer of the game than a fan of any one team, but I’ve watched more Alabama games than any other – live, TV, home and away.

  81. Mark Seidenberg

    Rod Stern at post # 98.

    Same Sex Couples can not be in a marriage, because a marriage is be a man and a woman.
    It is oxymoronic

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg.

  82. Catholic Trotskyist

    “is be a man and a woman?” Let Grundman take the lead on this issue; at least he has some hint of writing ability.

  83. Trent Hill

    “I’m more of a non-fan observer of the game than a fan of any one team, but I’ve watched more Alabama games than any other – live, TV, home and away.”

    Alabama – LSU games have essentially determined the national championship for the last 8 years, barring a few interesting blips on the radar (Florida/Auburn).

  84. Rod Stern

    Seidenberg,

    “Same Sex Couples can not be in a marriage, ”

    Of course they can, and many are.

    “because a marriage is be[tween] a man and a woman.”

    Bullshit.

    “It is oxymoronic”

    Your opinion is moronic.

    Trent,

    “Alabama – LSU games have essentially determined the national championship for the last 8 years, barring a few interesting blips on the radar (Florida/Auburn).”

    Yes, there have been quite a few interesting Alabama-LSU games. This year, I think the Georgia and Texas A &M games were the most interesting games for Alabama, although the LSU game was interesting as well.

  85. Trent Hill

    LSU game was the most interesting (ignoring my own bias). LSU led twice, but blew the lead at the end of each half with silly mistakes.

    I missed the A&M game, as I was in Death Valley at the time. So I can’t comment on that one. Georgia game was good too, though.

    This year, A&M is going to be super interesting to follow. So will Ole Miss. Bama and LSU will naturally be ones to watch at the top.

  86. Cody Quirk

    Don, its good to see that you’re being up front about your position, or former position, with the California CP.

    And if you send me any more of those wonderful emails, I will certainly share them with the San Leandro Police Department as well.

    I MEAN IT

  87. Cody Quirk

    “That’s ok, I’m not too concerned with that. Several CP leaders have said I’ve got a good grasp of what’s going on. So, all depends on perspective, I guess?”

    Not being a dick in saying that- Seriously, people have already been saying that about you, and more then one.
    -At least I try to be courteous and witty when I’m in @sshole mode.

    “Warranted skepticism, I’d say. But yes, otherwise, that’s true. You said the vote was “rigged”–and have provided no proof of that assertion. I just want to hold your feet to the fire and make you explain what you meant.”

    But the evidence that is there is that it wasn’t conducted accurately, or smoothly.

    “like not even a year ago, I’d say.”

    Welcome to politics, boyo

    “Wells used the page to promote his campaign or to promote himself. He did nothing to promote the values of the group–I objected to that. I’m not at all sorry that this upsets you.”

    Yeah, and you’re treating him like he’s a child molester.
    What crawled up your butt and died?

    “I don’t smear him at all. I recognize him for what he is–just the latest in a long line of third party personalities who appeared out of no-where, had a shady past, promoted himself rather than a party, ran for the highest office first, then switched to several different parties when he didn’t succeed. It’s tiresome, so I don’t bother being gentle about my casual dismissal of Mr. Wells. Want me to be really offensive? My LSU could’ve smushed any school he coached at”

    Uh huh, well you weren’t as vehement on Keyes back then as you are on Robby, and at least Robby doesn’t act like a douchebag.

  88. John Macy

    “And if you send me any more of those wonderful emails, I will certainly share them with the San Leandro Police Department as well.”

    Why wait?

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