50 responses so far ↓

• 1 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:05 am

  Idk, the LP should stop all this bullshit infighting, if they want to remain viable on the national stage! What exactly is wrong with Ruth? Why is she so bad?

  One thing, that I like about the American 3rd Position Party (soon to be renamed, next week) is that they do not have internal factions or infighting within their ranks. They are a unified, albeit, tiny, political party. LP should take note, and strive to be more like A3P, in this one regard.

• 2 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:06 am

  I learned that about A3P from conducting an extensive phone interview today, with its Membership Director, Jamie Kelso.

• 3 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:07 am

  Chuck Moulton seems cool, though. I remember he live blogged the LNC meeting in DC in November, he did a great job with that.

• 4 NoGovNo // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:12 am

  What exactly is wrong with Ruth? Why is she so bad?

  You read the article?

• 5 Jill Pyeatt // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:15 am

  KL at 1: ” One thing, that I like about the American 3rd Position Party (soon to be renamed, next week) is that they do not have internal factions or infighting within their ranks. They are a unified, albeit, tiny, political party. LP should take note, and strive to be more like A3P, in this one regard.”

  Several comments about your comment:

  1. That party is TEENY. The more people who are involved in something make it inevitable that there will be conflicts. That’s just the way people are;

  2. There might be just as much infighting proportionately, but you just don’t know about it;

  3. You’re certainly right that infighting is harmful and should be avoided.

• 6 Peter J. Orvetti // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:16 am

  I need more information. Why is Ms. Bennett inactive? Has she been contacted by the Chair or others to discuss the matter? She has a long activist history, so this is surprising.

• 7 Jill Pyeatt // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:17 am

  KL @ 1: Yes, her performance really is that bad. This is very sad for me, because I voted for her. Ms. Bennett was very helpful to me at the last convention and was quite gracious about my situation. However, the LNC, which already has some serious issues going on, is practically immobilized because of her lack of performing her duties.

• 8 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:18 am

  If they remove Bennett, I endorse Chuck Moulton for Secretary. I think Chuck is a good guy, he’s not of the the “top down” faction people. lol.

• 9 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:19 am

  IPR will have yet another one of its contributors serving on the LNC YAY

• 10 Jill Pyeatt // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:20 am

  I asked the same questions, Peter. I was a bit reluctant to post this article, but I decided to because this situation really needs to be addressed. Perhaps Ms. Bennett or a friend of hers can enlighten us if there’s an impediment to her job duties that we should know about.

• 11 Jill Pyeatt // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:21 am

  Chuck Moulton also seems able to stay involved without picking sides, which is a desirable trait at this time.

• 12 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:25 am

  In that case, let’s impeach Ms. Bennett, and make Chuck the secretary!! One more gain for IPR

• 13 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:27 am

  Also Jill, can you purge at least 500 of your inactive friends on Facebook? I need to add you! Also, if you list IPR as a job, on Facebook, it will take you to this special group like thing, so far only me and William Saturn are part of it.

  So if you list IPR, as one of your jobs, you are part of this group thing, it could be like, the official group for IPR “employees” lol. Please tell Paulie about it too, I think he went to sleep.

• 14 Krzysztof Lesiak // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:31 am

  Also, sorry to be off on a divergent tangent, here, but me and Paulie created a Facebook group for his LP Sunshine Caucus. Paulie told me the Sunshine Caucus is aimed at promoting transparency in the LP and especially LNC meetings, which I full support. If you request to join, I will add you, also, feel free to throw in all your LP friends into the fray

  https://www.facebook.com/groups/129862713843649/

• 15 NoGovNo // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:35 am

  Boston Tea Party was tiny, and notorious for infighting. And what about all the tiny socialist parties that split into splinters and form new ones all the time?

• 16 NoGovNo // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:45 am

  “IPR will have yet another one of its contributors serving on the LNC YAY”

  Whoah…hold your horses, son!

  You are getting way ahead of yourself there.

  It takes a 2/3 vote to remove a member for cause, and so far no LNC member has tried to introduce this even. Then the member being suspended has the right to appeal to the judicial committee.

  And then and only then would the LNC fill the vacancy, which we are a long way away from. If that happens, who they fill it with is hardly known at this time, even if Chuck still wants to run at that point. Just because people on IPR and Phillies like Chuck that does not say that is who LNC members would pick. Maybe they would and maybe not.

  So…take it one step at a time.

• 17 Peter J. Orvetti // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:50 am

  Chuck is a great guy, and would do a fine job, but I don’t think the ouster of an elected member should be done lightly.

• 18 NoGovNo // Jan 6, 2013 at 2:56 am

  From the article above:

  “The current situation on the National Committee is utterly unacceptable. Motions cannot be brought to a vote. Motions that may have passed cannot be acted upon, because the official results are unknown. Meeting Minutes reach draft format, but are perpetually in need of correction. When vote totals are reported, they are frequently found to be incorrect.”

  If this is true, would you call it acting lightly?

• 19 NewFederalist // Jan 6, 2013 at 10:40 am

  I have no dog in this fight but has anyone been in contact with Ruth Bennett? Is she having health issues or some other personal crisis? It seems strange that she would just stop working all of a sudden for no apparent reason.

• 20 George Phillies // Jan 6, 2013 at 11:48 am

  The new Liberty for America, Volume 5 Number 8 for January 2013, is now out.

  http://libertyforamerica.com/201301.pdf

  Articles include:

  LNC Paralyzed!
  Secretary Blocks All Business
  Editorial: It’s Time for Impeachment
  Chair Passes Motions by Decree
  Where Your Money Went
  Good News: National Convention Working Committees
  Libertarian Almost Wins State Rep Race
  Florida LP Hires Lobbyist
  McMahon is New Connecticut Chair
  On the Social Security Number Issue
  LNC Member Paid from Treasury
  LPUS Membership Resumes Its Decline
  Building Purchase Passes
  Donation Level Change Postponed
  Firearms for Freedom
  LP.Org Advertises for Reeves Faction
  LNC Goes Downhill

• 21 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 11:54 am

  @19 I had that thought, and tried calling her, but she did not call back. Dan Wiener said he reached her though, and she just said she was out of town and had limited email access, but it’s been too long for that to be the sole reason. She also said she would focus more on LNC at the last meeting (she has many other activities, school board being one) but instead things have gotten worse, not better. It’s possible there may be some chronic situation that she doesn’t want to let the whole world know about, but I don’t know. All I know for sure is that the job needs to be done.

  This is not yet on the public list, but it will be, so hopefully no one gets mad that I’m posting it here first, from Geoff Neale:

  ---

  I have not as of yet received official notice of the final tabulations of multiple mail ballots.

  I have reviewed the Bylaws, and find no way to substitute the action of the Secretary in any official way regarding the final results of mail ballots.

  That being said, the Chair is the one person with the authority to rule that a motion passed or failed. I am deciding to take the authority upon myself to rule on certain mail ballots. Each of us received a copy of all mail ballots known to be cast. These votes are known and uncontested. Each of these ballots have been separately tabulated and reported by known and trusted LNC members. The results reported are sufficiently lopsided to make the results to be relatively unquestionable.

  It is more important at this time that we have rulings than indecision based upon the absence of rulings, so I am ruling that:

  The motion to hold the next LNC meeting in Chicago has passed.

  The motion to postpone the implementation of the membership level changes to 7/1/2013 has passed.

  Dan Wiener’s motion for purchasing a building has passed.

  If I missed a vote, and you think a ruling is appropriate, please let me know.

  If you wish to challenge the ruling of the Chair. You will have to get cosponsors and then get the Secretary to submit a mail ballot. Good luck.

  Geoffrey Neale
  Chair, Libertarian Party

• 22 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 11:58 am

  The problem remains that we can’t open a motion from balloting; only the Secretary can. Mark Hinkle has had another building motion with enough co-sponsors for at least two weeks iirc, yet it has never been opened for voting.

  Link @20 is worth reading for those who want to understand what’s going on with this!

  Chuck would make a great Secretary, and I’ve also heard Gary Johnson (TX) mentioned – I know less about him, but he seems like a good guy and he’s done it before. But as mentioned somewhere above, we are a long way from that stage. It is, indeed, sad that this subject would even be broached.

• 23 NewFederalist // Jan 6, 2013 at 12:21 pm

  If no reason can be found for Ruth Bennett’s apparent lack of concern regarding her duties at least two points should be considered. First, her removal from office to allow for LNC business to be conducted. Second, learn a lesson from this experience and make institutional changes to prevent it from happening again. There is a Vice Chair who acts when the Chair is not available. Perhaps there should be an Assistant Secretary empowered to act when the Secretary does not. The same might be said for the Treasurer’s position. I realize this could create other unintended consequences but at least immobilizing the LNC should be far less likely to occur.

• 24 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 12:30 pm

  We have already created an Assistant Treasurer, which is I believe Bill Redpath. Also, Aaron Starr is helping both of them as well, so we have two experienced former treasurers in the mix, so that is well taken care of. I have proposed creating an Assistant Secretary position on the LNC list several times, using nearly exactly those same arguments, but don’t appear to have any support so far. Dr. Lark has taken on the informal role of Assistant Secretary, but since it’s not an official position he has no powers of the Secretary to act as a backup for voting purposes, which is what we really need to address.

• 25 George Phillies // Jan 6, 2013 at 1:27 pm

  @24 Thank you for the interesting information that Mr Starr, who convention delegates emphatically did not want on the LNC, is reinserting himself into LP activities in a covert way.

  Having said that, I have no issue with Mr Starr or any other LNC member memorializing the LNC about its conduct of business. Goddess knows, as I read the LNCDiscuss list, they could use some intelligent advice.

  “Assistant Secretary” does not work, due to exact specifications in LP Bylaws, which say that only the Secretary can post motions or collect votes for electronic voting. That’s a serious flaw in the Bylaws that needs to be fixed.

  Fortunately, you do not need a motion to remove the Secretary, you only need a vote. Also, the officer is forcibly recused from officiating over the removal process. Thus, the Secretary cannot muck up the issue by blocking the voting process on her removal.

• 26 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 1:37 pm

  Aaron has not inserted himself into LNC controversies unrelated to the budget. He has had some comments about the budget and membership trends, which you have generally agreed with. Of course, I am talking about what I know – I have no idea what he does behind the scenes.

  He’s chair of the audit committee, and an experienced treasurer, so his help on analyzing the numbers is appreciated regardless of whatever you or I think of his role in factional battles.

  If the LNC has no power to give additional powers to the Assistant Secretary – the Bylaws committee should address this. One way or another I agree with NF that we need a backup for all these positions.

  Speaking of bylaws, the committee, as well as the platform and credentials committees, will be filled at the upcoming LNC meeting in March. If anyone is interested please contact the LNC, and if you live in a state that gets automatic slots in these committees you may also want to talk to your state chair and/or state exec comm. If you are willing and able to travel to Chicago in mid-March, or already live there and can make the LNC meeting, your chances may be improved.

• 27 George Phillies // Jan 6, 2013 at 4:49 pm

  And now an LNC member is doing what needs to be done.

• 28 Peter J. Orvetti // Jan 6, 2013 at 4:53 pm

  @18 No, but I think verification and details are necessary, not just one somewhat vague article.

• 29 from the sidelines // Jan 6, 2013 at 5:03 pm

  Interesting that people at the convention were so anxious and giddy to throw out everyone on the past LNC. Frankly, they went too deep in the cuts. Alicia Mattson was doing a fine job keeping up with the minutes, in spite of the “sides” she took. The 2012 convention “mob rule” replaced an extremely qualified secretary.

• 30 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 6:08 pm

  @28 Details at http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/January-2013-Liberty-for-Americat.pdf linked in the article. I would not call that vague. If you want even more details see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpusmisc and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/ archives.

  @29 No one disputes that Alicia was an extremely qualified secretary. However, the convention did defeat her for other reasons, and since the Secretary gets a vote on the LNC we need to respect the will of the delegates. This was a head to head vote, not like coming in 6th or 7th out of 20 or so for At Large in a top 5 election.

  If a vacancy occurs due to resignation, removal or any other reason I would recommend Chuck Moulton, if he remains interested. I believe he would be a very effective secretary and would work well with the current LNC. I’ve also heard Gary Johnson of Texas mentioned; I don’t know him as well, but he’s done it before, so I think he could do it again. The only other name I have heard mentioned is Dave Blau. He does seem to be detail oriented as well.

  As mentioned above we are not at that stage yet.

  Ruth Bennett has been a very effective activist for many, many years. She has done a lot for the LP and has been an effective candidate for public office, state officer, LNC member in past terms, etc. I don’t know what is going on with her now; I only know that it is causing performance problems, whatever the reason may be, and thus the issue has to be dealt with, since it’s been an ongoing problem for months. At the last meeting in mid-November she acknowledged the problem and said she would be more attentive to LNC duties (she’s also on her local school board, etc), but instead things have gotten worse.

  We have motions that have been over for 4 weeks and it took until yesterday to get a ruling from the chair that they passed because we never heard from the Secretary no matter how many times and different ways people asked.

  We have another motion which has had enough co-sponsors for over 2 weeks now iirc and it has not been opened for a vote.

  NO motions can be opened for a vote until the Secretary opens them for a vote.

  Thus, we have to do something about it.

  Ruth Bennett has been asked to resign several times by several people over the course of several months, over email, in person, and probably in other ways. She has said no each time. It is only after all this, that, with regret, we have started to talk about removal for cause.

  But that does not mean we should ignore the will of the delegates at the convention either, when it came to a head to head vote.

  There are other people who are willing and able to serve and could do a good job.

• 31 from the sidelines // Jan 6, 2013 at 6:17 pm

  If there was a “head to head” today with the same two candidates, who would win?
  Some folks deal with results.

• 32 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 6:20 pm

  Trying to make it about only two people as if they were the only possible options is part of why people have been hesitant to take action sooner. There are other options; no need to second guess the decision of the delegates.

• 33 George Phillies // Jan 6, 2013 at 6:58 pm

  @31 NOTA! NOTA! NOTA!

• 34 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 7:00 pm

  I have no idea who would win now, and I don’t think we should guess.

  NOTA is only an acceptable answer if we can then choose from among other candidates.

  Which we can do now (if a vacancy occurs), so no need to reverse the election.

• 35 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 7:26 pm

  From Geoff Neale:

  I just got off the phone with Ruth – she is alive and well, so no need to be concerned with alien abduction or the like.

  She has informed me that she will have a general announcement to the LNC by the end of the week, and will be working on getting up-to-date on Secretarial duties in the meantime.

  Geoffrey Neale

• 36 George Phillies // Jan 6, 2013 at 8:06 pm

  @35 You have heard this line in some variant before.

• 37 Your humble subject // Jan 6, 2013 at 8:36 pm

  GP @36

  If the general announcement is “I resign” coupled with clearing the backlog of work so her successor does not have to deal with it… I would give her props.

• 38 From Der Sidelines // Jan 6, 2013 at 8:41 pm

  It appears that my illustrious self has an inferior imitator.

  While imitation is supposed to be the sincerest form of flattery, it is rather apparent that the imitator here at posts #29 and 31 is nowhere near my superior level. It must be one of those Starr Chamber idiots.

• 39 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 8:47 pm

  @38

  The difference is that you are from DER sidelines and the other individual is from THE sidelines.

  While I would prefer that he or she pick a handle that is less like yours to avoid confusion, I won’t actually remove posts unless an imitator posts with the exact name you are using and fails to heed a warning about that.

  Of course, that’s just me – I don’t know what other people here will or won’t do. Usually “defer to someone else” seems to be the most common default option.

• 40 paulie // Jan 6, 2013 at 8:48 pm

  @36-7 The announcement could be any number of things – illness, rehab, resignation, any number of things I haven’t thought of. I guess we’ll find out when we get the announcement.

• 41 Marc Montoni // Jan 6, 2013 at 8:56 pm

  While I like Alicia Mattson personally and was very pleased with the way she conducted the “functional” side of her job as Secretary, the choices she made on the “policy” side of her duties alarmed me so much that I could not cast my vote for her.

  Several of my colleagues in Virginia had similar reservations about both her and Bennett. I believe Virginia was the only state where a majority voted for Roger Roots on the first ballot. On the second, a couple of us switched to Bennett, but four of us voted for NOTA.

  I was one of them.

  Had Chuck run at that time, I think a large fraction of the Virginia delegation — radicals and minarchists alike — would have enthusiastically voted for him. One exception I assume would be the person who nominated Chuck’s opponent for Vice Chair in Denver; who normally votes lockstep with Ms. Mattson’s faction on most issues (which is one of a few reasons why I went from endorsing that person for an LNC office in 2006, to voting for NOTA or an opponent in every national election I’ve participated in since.

  I think Chuck would be an excellent choice for Secretary. He is a committed advocate of openness and transparency, an attitude which the LNC desperately needs to have in the majority.

• 42 Libertarian National Committee passes building purchase motion | Independent Political Report: Third Party News // Jan 6, 2013 at 9:47 pm

  [...] PA CaseWarren Redlich on Mark Hilgenberg: Why Are Libertarians Hard to Understand?Marc Montoni on Liberty for America Calls for Impeachment of LNC’s Secretarypaulie on Liberty for America Calls for Impeachment of LNC’s Secretarypaulie on Liberty for [...]

• 43 Chuck Moulton // Jan 8, 2013 at 5:59 am

  As I mentioned on another thread, the LNC needs a functioning secretary and I would be willing to serve in that capacity. I think I would be well suited to the job given my knowledge of the bylaws, my attention to detail, my frequent checking of email, and my experience as secretary of a state affiliate (the Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania several years ago) and a local affiliate (the Libertarian Party of Northern Virginia currently).

  I hope Ruth gets her act together fulfilling the secretarial duties instead. There are several other very qualified activists who would probably also be good as LNC secretary if Ruth resigns or is removed.

• 44 Peter J. Orvetti // Jan 8, 2013 at 7:20 am

  Well, if what people are saying here is true, she should probably step down or be removed.

• 45 Robert Capozzi // Jan 8, 2013 at 8:23 am

  RB has not been accused of narcing to the FEC on the LP. GP has admitted such, and remains to this day (near as I can tell) unrepentant and unapologetic about doing so.

  “Sins” of omission seem more easily forgivable than “sins” of commission. Both, I maintain, are abundantly forgivable, as we all make mistakes.

  Honesty heals. Treachery exacerbates.

  Accusations from the serially treacherous lack credibility.

• 46 paulie // Jan 8, 2013 at 11:13 am

  RC @ 45 I don’t see what Phillies and the FEC has to do with it. This is not about Phillies; he’s pointing out a problem here, not creating one. Ruth Bennett acknowledged at the November LNC meeting that there was a problem, and said things would get better, but they got worse. We lost the most crucial month of fundraising for the building, and the ability to get 2012 donations from people who have to break theirs up into more than one year. LNC business ground to a halt and the chair had to rule that email ballots passed a month later. No new motions can be opened for voting. These are not allegations Phillies is making, they are facts that everyone acknowledges and which you can verify for yourself from publicly available sources.

  I hesitate to say no one is happy about this, but many of us are certainly not. We greatly appreciate all the hard work and contributions Ruth Bennett has made over many years. But the LNC needs a functioning Secretary, and right now that’s not happening. The rumor I have now heard from a couple of LNC members is that the upcoming announcement later this week will be resignation. My sources have asked not to be identified. Again, right now this is not verified.

  I’ve done quite a few inexcusable things in my life. But if I pointed out that we’re in a building that’s falling into a sinkhole, the truth of what I would be pointing out would not hinge on what I have or haven’t done in the past. If my past actions made you disinclined to believe me you would then probably want to see if you could verify my claims independently, unless I was in the serial habit of making such claims which repeatedly prove to be false, or unless you are unconcerned with falling into a sinkhole. So, if you don’t believe Phillies, ask someone else, or look up the records. The emails are all online this term, and Phillies has an index of them so you can find the ones you are looking for, and there’s also a LNC business list archive publicly available at LP.org.

  I realize that when you’re a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail, but this is not a nail. It has nothing to do with Phillies and the FEC.

• 47 Robert Capozzi // Jan 8, 2013 at 11:49 am

  46 p: I don’t see what Phillies and the FEC has to do with it. This is not about Phillies; he’s pointing out a problem here, not creating one.

  me: Yes, it seems tangential. Since, however, GP seems unwilling or unable to repair his own dysfunction in the credibility department, I’m reminded of the saying “Physician heal thyself.”

  If this call for impeachment came from another, I’d find it more on-point from jump. Coming from a person who can’t admit to his own errors, I have little time for even considering the merits.

  Others may be willing to be fooled twice. Me? It’s not my practice.

  Hope that clears up my POV….

• 48 Jill Pyeatt // Jan 8, 2013 at 12:04 pm

  Someone commented on my Facebook that the title of theis article should have been”George Phillies Calls for Impeachment of LNC Secretary”, but I agree with Paulie this this isn’t an issue between George and Ms. Bennett and didn’t want to start a rumor. Many people are talking about impeachment, since she has refused to resign so far.

• 49 Robert Capozzi // Jan 8, 2013 at 12:19 pm

  jp, but apparently others have the good judgment to try to work a sensitive subject in private, at least at first, exhausting all options.

  This is not GP’s pattern. Until he corrects that pattern (which I hope for him he does), his words — often wise ones – will be tainted by his propensity to overreact, often with vengeance.

• 50 paulie // Jan 10, 2013 at 9:02 pm

  @47 Phillies is not the only one calling for suspension. I’m hearing more rumors about tomorrow’s announcement being resignation. I guess we’ll find out for sure tomorrow.

Leave a Comment