What’s Going On with the Libertarian Party of Nevada?

In May of 2011, the Libertarian Party of Nevada released the following press release:

Posted by LPNevada News on 11 May 2011

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Libertarian Party of Nevada announces the results from Executive Committee meeting.

LAS VEGAS, Nevada, May 10, 2011 ― The Libertarian Party of Nevada (LPNevada), the Libertarian Party is America’s third-largest political party who believes in minimum government and maximum freedom, announced the results of its May 5, 2011 Executive Committee meeting.

The LPNevada Executive Committee (ExCom) had its regularly scheduled meeting held telephonically on May 5, 2011 at 8:00PM PST. The agenda included the Treasurer’s report, establishing state levels of donor contributions (memberships), authorization of spending funds and, most notably, a motion to unite the state’s leadership. Other issues discussed were the addition of the new LPNevada website (www.LPNevada.org), LPNevada Logo, engagement of social media activities and the introduction of contributors to the LPNevada blog.

A far-reaching motion spearheaded by Joseph P. Silvestri, the state Chairman, and made by Irv Hopkins, the At-Large Representative, to consolidate its leadership and party platform on a state level. The ExCom voted in favor (6-to-2) of de-affiliating all the county organizations with the intent to consolidate the LPNevada into one centralized state party.

The board members voting in favor of this change want to state that our primary reason for this change was to more effectively pursue Libertarian goals of identifying and electing qualified Libertarian candidates statewide by creating a single source of a unified, positive message of freedom and responsibility. When the LPNevada is compared to other LP state affiliates on a per-capita basis, we do well for the population base we have. But in raw numbers, we have few activists who are spread too thin across our organizational structure. Without adequate coordination, the voting public is getting mixed messages from different parts of the LPNevada as county affiliates often focus on issues of little importance to mainstream voters. Once the LPNevada has grown to a size to adequately support a multi-level structure, we hope then to be able to rebuild county affiliates.

“Based upon a review of the past decade’s lack of membership growth and current membership totals, the LPNevada ExCom believes the current system design of individual county organizations is both inefficient and counterproductive,” said Joseph P. Silvestri, LPNevada Chairman. “While Chairman of the Clark County affiliate, I saw firsthand the difficulties in maintaining an effective affiliate organization. This decision was long overdue.”

Silvestri continued, “While this decision was not taken lightly, there was strong consensus that this change was absolutely necessary. I am very pleased with the direction the LPNevada is now heading, which will also create uniform membership criteria statewide. I encourage other Libertarian Party leaders of small affiliates to consider reviewing their organizational structure and adopt positive changes like we did here in Nevada.

Here are links to some articles we posted here at IPR about the disaffiliation:

Nevada State Committee Disaffiliates Its County and Regional Committees

Jim Duensing: We Libertarians Have Become What We Profess to Oppose

David Colborne: Wayne Root Votes in Favor of Big Government

Nevada’s Libertrian Party Attracts Outside Attention

John Jay Myers: The Libertarian Party of Nevada Has Issues

And now, 18 months later, we have received the following letter from Brett Pujonis:

November 25, 2012

Executive Committee
Libertarian Party of Nevada
P.O. Box: 34688,
Las Vegas, NV 89133

Dear Executive Committee,

As an active member of the Libertarian Party, it saddens me to write you this letter. As you know, I have been a very active member of LPNevada as well as the National party. My personal goal is to build the Libertarian Party nationwide while building LPNevada into the strongest Libertarian Affiliate. I am fully committed to achieving these goals and made tremendous personal sacrifices to advance liberty, below is a list of some of my contributions:

Libertarian Party of Nevada:

o Served on the Libertarian Party of Nevada Executive Committee as Secretary and previously held other appointed positions.
o Volunteered and/or organized numerous events for LPNevada including hosting many events at my home. I also secured a venue for the last state convention at no cost to LPNevada.
o Rebranded all marketing efforts including a new logo for LPNevada. Designed most of the marketing content for web and print such as postcards and emails.
o Designed, hosted, search engine optimized and maintained www.LPNevada.org at no expense to LPNevada.
o Created and built a strong social media presence for LPNevada and personally paid for advertising to promote them.
o Reached out to volunteers, new members and encouraged a large number of people to get involved in the party.
o Helped LPNevada utilize technology to get organized.
o Built relationships with other liberty oriented organizations.
o Included LPNevada as sponsor or negotiated its involvement in other political events to bring additional exposure to the Libertarian Party.

Libertarian National Committee:

o Currently, I am serving my second term on the Libertarian National Committee and I am on the Information Technology Committee as well as the Audit Committee.
o As Regional Representative on the LNC, I have provided vital training to help grow the Libertarian Party such as the 101 Training Series which is widely accessible for all affiliates.
o I fight to support the state affiliates by introducing motions to provide training and technology.
o Launched the first National campaign in over a decade time called DoubleTheLP. The concept of this campaign is to encourage each member of the LP to bring in a new member to double the size of the Libertarian Party. Thus far we have signed up 109 new members!

Other Libertarian Activities:

Young Libertarian National Alliance (YLNA)

„X Co-founder and Co-Chairman of the Young Libertarian National Alliance (YLNA), a grassroots partisan political youth organization which provides essential leadership training and experience to young Libertarians. The YLNA prepares the youth to serve as future leaders of the Libertarian Party, as well as elected positions at the local, state, and federal levels of government.
„X We have launched our first chapter at UNLV and intend on launching more chapters over the next year.
o Libertarian State Leadership Alliance (LSLA)
„X Served as Treasurer of the LSLA. During my term I was very active and I was one of the members responsible for rebuilding the organization.
„X Rebranded the organization by designing a new logo, developing the LSLA website, and setup and built all of the social media accounts.
„X Established the LSLA Online Technology Standardization Committee to select online technologies to develop a platform for all the states and counties to use.
„X Established the LSLA IT Committee to draft the technical specifications document which would be used to develop the Saratoga platform.
„X Took responsibility of overseeing the vendor booth sales at the National Convention.
„X Hosted online training seminars for the affiliates.
„X Developed the GROW project which is an online Wiki and file repository for states to share documents used to build their organization.
„X Organized the 2012 LSLA Convention and set up the workshops and speakers.

Gary Johnson 2012 Presidential Campaign

„X Worked closely with the GJ 2012 Presidential campaign on a National level assisting in many different areas such as fundraising, event planning and securing media coverage.
o GoLibertarian.Com
„X Developed GoLibertarian.com which is the only social network for Libertarians. Individuals can connect with other like-minded liberty lovers,
share ideas, and inspire a new generation of libertarian thought and action. GoLibertarian.Com also has tools available to help affiliates collaborate and communicate better.
o LibertarianPost.org
„X Currently under development, LibertarianPost.org will be the first major Libertarian media portal. LibertarianPost.org will aggregating all Libertarian content such as blogs, radio shows and videos in one website. We have currently identified over 20 contributors who have committed to publishing content weekly. The goal is to syndicate our content to major news organizations to get the Libertarian message out to mainstream media.

I thoroughly enjoy fighting for the advancement of liberty and I have made significant career changes to enable me to dedicate even more time to building the Libertarian Party.

When I first met Chairman Joe Silvestri, he encouraged me to get involved with the party and I had high hopes for his ability to build LPNevada. We worked together and I greatly appreciate everything that he did to help me within the party.
However, over the past few months Joe Silvestri has made several very public attempts to remove me from the LPNevada Executive Committee and failed each time. Each attempt wasted a tremendous amount of time from not only Joe and me, but also our members. Each time this happened it distracted me from working on projects that help grow the Libertarian Party.

He has attacked me personally and politically making false claims that have absolutely no relevance to my role as Secretary. It was shameful the way he tried to discredit me to fellow LPNevada members. When I asked him why he was so upset with me he told me that I ¡§broke faction lines¡¨ and he no longer trusts me.

Our bylaws state that an Officer can only be removed for failure to perform his or her duties. He has tried to remove me by forcing an illegal vote without cause. Recently he has presented the other 3 Executive Committee members with ultimatums that it is either Joe or I that will have to go. Is this good leadership? From the LPNevada By-Laws:

Section 2.

DUTIES

Should it be determined that any Officer is found not to be performing the duties of said office, such Officer may be removed by a simple majority vote of the remaining members of the Executive Committee, and a replacement may be appointed, by the Chair, with advice and consent of the remainder of the Executive Committee, by Pro Tem appointment, to serve until the next Convention.
Libertarian Party of Nevada

C. The Secretary shall record and maintain Minutes of party meetings and conventions, and all non-financial records of the LPN including, but not limited to, these bylaws and all committee reports.

Joe Silvestri has alienated the majority of our supporters by disaffiliating the counties in Nevada and our membership and number of activists are at an all-time low. He does not let anyone he doesn¡¦t know take an active role in the party because he doesn¡¦t trust them. He has told me a few times that he would rather have people around him that he can trust who are not active, than build a strong organization comprised of people he doesn¡¦t know. There is little direct communication taking place between the party and its supporters. It is hardly surprising that much of the party¡¦s grassroots simply drifted off into a passive membership or have left completely.

Joe Silvestri has not presented a plan on how we are going to grow this party and in my opinion that is due to a lack of leadership. During his time as Chairman, the party has not grown (it has actually decreased in size and we do not have any county affiliates) and there is nothing significant he can point to as his accomplishments.

I will always do what I think is in the best interest of LPNevada. At this time, I think it would be best for LPNevada if I were to resign as Secretary and help out LPNevada in other ways. Therefore, it is with much regret that I write to inform you that I have decided to resign as Secretary of the Libertarian Party of Nevada effective immediately. It is my intention to work with the new Secretary to ensure a smooth transition of all the files I created and maintained as Secretary. I will continue being an active member of LPNevada and serving on the LNC.

I wish LPNevada success and I hope they can capture some of the momentum from the recent election to grow the party!

Sincerely,

Brett H. Pojunis

So, what is currently going on with the Libertarian Party of Nevada? This writer would like some discussion as to whether the major changes from May 2011 have produced the desired results.

108 thoughts on “What’s Going On with the Libertarian Party of Nevada?

  1. Reed E

    What the hell is going on in Nevada? I have a feeling this is the first comment in a long, drawn out debate in the comment section.

  2. paulie

    The state chair has control issues. He has been continually purging successive waves of people and setting up barriers to people becoming involved. So now he is down to a committee which can be counted on the figures of one hand, with at least a finger to spare, even though he is in a major metro area with a lot of libertarian activity and support which at the moment the big Ls are largely missing out on (including from former active members, candidates etc).

    There’s a lot of libertarian sentiment in the rural and small towns of Nevada too, as well as in the Reno area, the whole state is ripe for expansion – but the party leadership is dominated by one individual whose primary concern is that everyone on his team be unswervingly loyal to him. And since everyone or almost everyone runs afoul of him sooner or later on something or another, it becomes their turn to leave or be forced out.

    The real question in my mind is whether enough of them will bother to show up at the next state convention to choose new leadership for their state.

  3. David Colborne

    What’s really disappointing is that Nevada is absolutely ripe for the picking – Gary Johnson received tremendous support here, we never had issues getting significant turnout for him or Judge Jim Gray, and this doesn’t even get into Ron Paul’s support here. Yet the GOP is doing everything within its power to flush the Ron Paul group out and the LP here is doing its damnedest to hack its own neck off. It’s tremendously frustrating.

    The biggest problem with the LP Nevada convention at this point is nobody knows where it will be nor when it will be held. Brett and his dad run the LP Nevada web site, but if they’re not on speaking terms with the Executive Committee, it’s entirely possible that Silvestri and his friends might decide to just host the “convention” at his house and call it done. Or, they might decide to hold the 2013 convention in November or December, instead of in January or February. Or both. Our state bylaws are frustratingly open-ended as far as convention scheduling and quorum goes.

  4. paulie

    Brett and his dad run the LP Nevada web site,

    I don’t think that’s true anymore. I’m pretty sure Brett said his dad is no longer in charge of the blog and I doubt Silvestri is leaving someone he has in effect purged in charge of the website (I know Brett resigned but that’s why I say in effect).

    The biggest problem with the LP Nevada convention at this point is nobody knows where it will be nor when it will be held. [...] The biggest problem with the LP Nevada convention at this point is nobody knows where it will be nor when it will be held.

    I presume that the state party has a variety of means of communication at its disposal: the website is one – I’m sure they’ll have someone to take it over even if they haven’t done that yet – but there’s also email, facebook, twitter, snail mail, the phone, supper clubs if there are any, and so on.

    If the time and place of the meeting is not clearly communicated to the membership at large, even if it’s not in the bylaws, it may violate whatever parliamentary authority you are using (probably Roberts) and/or state law. You should at least take a look at those to see if it does.

    . Our state bylaws are frustratingly open-ended as far as convention scheduling and quorum goes.

    So fix that at your next state convention. Or, if parliamentary authority and state law provide no relief and the convention is held at someone’s private residence with little or no notice to the general membership, at some point you have to hold a competing convention and ask national to disaffiliate them and affiliate with the new affiliate instead.

    Not that I really want another Arizona or Oregon issue with two competing state parties, but if that’s the only way to fix it (make sure you exhaust all other options first) just pull the trigger and get it over with already. Because as you point out:

    What’s really disappointing is that Nevada is absolutely ripe for the picking – Gary Johnson received tremendous support here, we never had issues getting significant turnout for him or Judge Jim Gray, and this doesn’t even get into Ron Paul’s support here. Yet the GOP is doing everything within its power to flush the Ron Paul group out and the LP here is doing its damnedest to hack its own neck off.

    We’re dropping the ball and that needs to stop – preferably sooner rather than later.

  5. paulie

    From the article @10

    “. According to the LPNV’s bylaws, the state party is only allowed to conduct one convention per year (an “annual” convention) and 60 days notice must be provided to all members in the state before the convention is conducted. ”

    Is it mandated to hold a convention every year, or could the chair simply decide to put it off indefinitely?

    And is the notice requirement no longer in place?

  6. paulie

    http://www.lpnevada.org/about-the-lp-nv/leadership-bylaws/bylaws

    Selected quotes:

    All adult residents of Nevada shall be considered members of the LPN provided they:

    A. Are and have been registered as Libertarian in Nevada for a period of not less than 30 days, and continue to be registered as Libertarian,

    and

    B. have donated at least Fifty Dollars ($50.00) to the LPN in the past 365 days, of which sum, Twenty-Five ($25.00) will be remitted to the Libertarian Party of the United States of America, and have certified in writing that they oppose the initiation of force to achieve political or social goals.

    The LPN shall hold a Convention in Clark County, Nevada in odd numbered years for the purpose of electing Executive Committee Officers, amending these bylaws, and whatever business may be deemed necessary and proper.

    All LPN members who have registered with the Convention, are qualified to be Convention delegates .

    The Executive Committee shall publish the time, date, and location for the Annual State Convention as soon as possible, but no later than 60 days before the date of the State Convention. This publication will be sufficient if it is prominently placed on the LPN’s official website. However, if at all possible, the Executive Committee is encouraged to send, via USPS mail, notice to all members at least 30 days before the date of the State Convention.

    The rules contained in the current edition of Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised shall govern the LPN in all cases to which they apply, and in which they are not inconsistent with these bylaws, any special rules of order the LPN may adopt, and any statutes applicable to the LPN.

    A. These by-laws may be amended by two-thirds vote at any Convention.

    B. To be considered in convention, all bylaws proposals and amendments thereto must be presented in writing to the Secretary 30 days before the Convention.

    C. After a bylaws proposal is submitted, the Secretary shall post it on the LPN web site within seven days.

  7. David Colborne

    @16 basically means that a quorum is a majority of the people that showed up to the convention. As you pointed out, they are required to hold a convention every year, though when every year is left undefined. On the notification front, there’s more than enough to hang them on if they get too “cute”, but there’s definitely enough going on in the background where a “dog ate my convention notice” could at least fly on first blush, at least until someone points out that the Pojunises never had access to the LP Nevada’s Facebook page.

  8. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I will say that Brett’s list of accomplishments is quite impressive. We could use him in California!

  9. paulie

    No, I don’t think they have an out.

    “The Executive Committee shall publish the time, date, and location for the Annual State Convention as soon as possible, but no later than 60 days before the date of the State Convention. This publication will be sufficient if it is prominently placed on the LPN’s official website. However, if at all possible, the Executive Committee is encouraged to send, via USPS mail, notice to all members at least 30 days before the date of the State Convention.”

    What this means to me is that they should send out snail mail, even if they can get it on the website, and especially so if they can’t. But there are numerous communications media at the party’s disposal and they have no excuse not to serve adequate notice. There may also be additional requirements in Roberts and/or state law. If you have anyone that’s good at researching those things you should be on top of that.

    Also, I don’t think Brett would lock them out of their own website, LOL. He’s still on the LNC for one thing.

    I think Duensing or someone (I think Duensing) once did lock them out of their own website. All that would mean is that they would set up a new website and have national link to that. And they have no excuse not to do it well in advance of the convention.

    As for having it late in the year that is possible.

    Silvestri could have it on the evening of Dec 31 2013 and as far as I can tell he would not violate the bylaws.

    Another interesting question is whether he could have it at, say, his house. Since the bylaws don’t specifically address that, Roberts or state law might.

  10. paulie

    On a semi-related topic, this will probably be its own IPR story soon but in the meantime….

    On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Brett H. Pojunis wrote:
    Libertarian Leaders,

    Please forward this to your members!

    I am very happy to inform everyone that a project we have been working on for a while is about to come to fruition! We are developing a “Libertarian Media Portal” which will pull all relevant content from media sources within the Liberty Movement. This will be the Libertarian answer to the liberal HuffingtonPost. The website is nearly developed and the name will be unveiled soon.

    We need help with the following areas:

    Featured Contributors. We are looking for people who would like to be regular contributors to this project that will agree to submit a minimum of 3 well thought out blog posts each week.

    Contributors. Contributors are individuals who will submit articles less frequently.
    State Party Blogs & News. We would like to repost the full articles from each state party who has an active blog and is publishing content regularly Please send me an email with your feeds so we can pull them into the site.

    States (any organization) will have access to feeds which can be pulled into their websites so we can manage their blogs or create one for you!

    Radio Blogs. Please email me with any Libertarian (Liberty Movement) radio shows, regardless of how big they are.

    We are looking for personalities to launch or participate in Radio Shows. Contact me if you are interested.

    Newspapers & Newsletters. Please inform us of any Liberty Movement newspapers/newsletters including state parties.

    Libertarian Videos. Please send us links to anyone within the Liberty movement who are producing their own videos.

    I have heard a lot of plans to put together Online TV shows, if you are working on a project or have some ideas, please contact me.

    Thank you for your help!

    Best,

    Brett H. Pojunis
    Libertarian National Committee (LNC) – Region 4 Representative
    Young Libertarian National Alliance (YLNA) – Co-founder and Co-Chair
    702.325.7426 | Las Vegas Mobile
    202.505.3606 | Washington D.C. Mobile
    brett@pojunis.com
    http://www.BigLSolutions.com

  11. The Real Question

    @21 Unfortunately, Paulie, you and the readers are completely unaware of the “real question”.

  12. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    Sounds like a change at the top is much needed and very soon. This guy is/was a WAR friend/lackey IIRC. Time for all NVLP members to come forward in convention and get the Party back on a GROWING path for liberty……

    ^ * ^ * ^ * ^ * ^ * ^ *

    The politicians in Washington and our state capitals have led us away from the principles of individual liberty and personal responsibility which are the only sound foundation for a just, humane, and abundant society.

    Government at all levels is too large, too expensive, woefully inefficient, arrogant, intrusive, and downright dangerous. Democratic and Republican politicians have created the status quo and do not intend to change it. – http://www.lp.org

    “Given the low level of competence among politicians, every American should become a Libertarian.”
    — Charley Reese, Alameda Times-Star (California) –

    Healthcare
    Making Healthcare Safe and Affordable

    As recently as the 1960s, low-cost health insurance was available to virtually everyone in America – including people with existing medical problems. Doctors made house calls. A hospital stay cost only a few days’ pay. Charity hospitals were available to take care of families who could not afford to pay for healthcare.

    Since then the federal government has increasingly intervened through Medicare, Medicaid, the HMO Act and tens of thousands of regulations on doctors, hospitals and health-insurance companies.

    Today, more than 50 percent of all healthcare dollars are spent by the government. Health insurance costs are skyrocketing. Government health programs are heading for bankruptcy. Politicians continue to pile on the regulations.

    The Libertarian Party knows the only healthcare reforms that will make a real difference are those that draw on the strength of the free market.

    The Libertarian Party will work towards the following:

    1. Establish Medical Saving Accounts.
    Under this program, you could deposit tax-free money into a Medical Savings Account (MSA). Whenever you need the money to pay medical bills, you will be able to withdraw it. For individuals without an MSA, the Libertarian Party will work to make all healthcare expenditures 100 percent tax deductible.

    2. Deregulate the healthcare industry.
    We should repeal all government policies that increase health costs and decrease the availability of medical services. For example, every state has laws that mandate coverage of specific disabilities and diseases. These laws reduce consumer choice and increase the cost of health insurance. By making insurance more expensive, mandated benefits increase the number of uninsured American workers.

    3. Remove barriers to safe, affordable medicines.

    We should replace harmful government agencies like the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) with more agile, free-market alternatives. The mission of the FDA is to protect us from unsafe medicines. In fact, the FDA has driven up healthcare costs and deprived millions of Americans of much-needed treatments. For example, during a 10-year delay in approving Propanolol Propranolol (a heart medication for treating angina and hypertension), approximately 100,000 people died who could have been treated with this lifesaving drug. Bureaucratic roadblocks kill sick Americans.

    – By the ONLY Political Party Plan that attempts to ensure…And EQUAL JUSTICE for ALL… http://www.lp.org/issues

    (During this Holiday season) Will you help us massively boost our outreach now,(to build upon) our Get Out the Libertarian Vote Avalanche of Activism, (aftermath and) pump up our blog promos NOW?

    Now is the time. Every dollar you donate – gives 10 times the impact.

    If you can possibly donate $10,000 or $5,000 or $2,500 now, you can make a huge difference now. Will you please make this generous donation today?

    Will you, can you donate $1,500 or $850 now – (will you please help us build upon our One Million PLUS Record vote !) ?

    If you can contribute $250 or $500 today, will you please?

    Or $35 or $85 or $150. Won’t you please help us help you advance liberty?

    Please either donate online now or mail your donation to the address below with “ReLoad the Libertarian Warchest” in the memo.

    We Must raise $70,000 to $90,000 (NOW to reload the Warchest) – to send the Big Government Politicians a Message They Can’t Ignore: Liberty is On the Rise.

    Your donations delivered Libertarian votes on November 6th. Thank you.

    Yours in liberty,

    Carla Howell, Executive Director
    Libertarian Party

    P.S…… Please help our Libertarian Party (build on our) candidates campaigns, (continue to) get publicity and news coverage, and (build the Libertarian Brand) – NOW. Will you please donate $25 or $50 or $100 or $1,000. Your donation is our budget. http://www.lp.org/contribute

    Paid for by the Libertarian National Committee
    2600 Virginia Ave, N.W. Suite 200, Washington D.C. 20037
    Content not authorized by any candidate or candidate committee.

  13. paulie

    Time for all NVLP members to come forward in convention and get the Party back on a GROWING path for liberty……

    That’s what we’ve been talking about here. However it is not clear whether all the other LP members that are not happy with the present state leadership will go to the convention, whether it will be delayed until the end of 2013, and whether there will be any other games played to keep people out.

  14. ATBAFT

    Given that the Penna. GOP was willing to spend $100K to wreck GJ’s ballot spot, aren’t we worried that some (maybe all) state LP organizations may be ridiculously easy to infilitrate and ruin if the GOP so chooses? I’m not sure what can be done about it, but maybe the National LP’s counsel ought to be
    looking in to making takeovers alot more difficult.

  15. Andy

    “ATBAFT // Dec 10, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Given that the Penna. GOP was willing to spend $100K to wreck GJ’s ballot spot, aren’t we worried that some (maybe all) state LP organizations may be ridiculously easy to infilitrate and ruin if the GOP so chooses? I’m not sure what can be done about it, but maybe the National LP’s counsel ought to be
    looking in to making takeovers alot more difficult.”

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Libertarian Party as well as other minor parties are already infiltrated with plants.

  16. GovMart

    What kind of plants, will any of them get you stoned if you roll them up, set them on fire and smoke them?

  17. Andy

    “GovMart // Dec 10, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    What kind of plants,”

    I assume that the poster above is joking, but even so, what I mean by plants are sabatuers, provocatuers, informants, or others claiming to be Libertarians (or whatever other party as it applies to other minor parties) who are not.

  18. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Frankly, we should always be aware that there might be infiltrators in the LP. To me, it’s kind of like Facebook–I know anyone can look into what I’m saying, so I try not to say anything to get me in trouble, and I always view newcomers with a bit of suspicion. I think that’s just logical. So, is someone inferring there are infiltrators in the Nevada LP?

  19. GovMart

    If I was the LP (especially in some states like Nevada) I would be more worried about getting some outreach happening than ferreting out infiltrators. Not that infiltrators don’t exist. But by far the bigger problem for LP is not excess of interest by outsiders but lack thereof.

  20. GovMart

    By the way I do believe the Libertarian Party as well as other minor parties are already infiltrated with plants as well as pills, powders, and liquids.

    I’m not sure about hallucinogenic toads. Will have to investigate further.

  21. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt // Dec 10, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    Frankly, we should always be aware that there might be infiltrators in the LP.”

    There have probably been infiltrators in the Libertarian Party since the 1970’s. In fact, I read something about some people who went to some Libertarian Party meetings back in the 1970’s having been undercover FBI agents.

    I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if there are infiltrators in the LP right now, and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised is some of them have risen to levels of prominence in the party. Hell, I think that the LP’s 2008 Presidential ticket likely fit that description.

    “So, is someone inferring there are infiltrators in the Nevada LP?”

    Well, I think that one obvious plant took his toys and went home not too long ago.

  22. GovMart

    Wouldn’t it be wild if most of the party was actually run by what you call infiltrators?

    Hey …would that make the other remaining people in the party who aren’t in on it the actual infiltrators?

    That would be crazy, huh?

    The sort of thing that might make you go licking toads if you keep thinking about it maybe even?

  23. Andy

    “GovMart // Dec 10, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    Wouldn’t it be wild if most of the party was actually run by what you call infiltrators?”

    I doubt that it would be most of the party. If anything, it would probably be a small handful of people in a few places.

  24. GovNo

    There’s actually no way to tell how many or few there are. There probably are some though.

    But not every example of colossal stupidity or avarice can attributed to sabotage.

  25. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    GN @ 38: “But not every example of colossal stupidity or avarice can attributed to sabotage.”

    We need to figure out some way to make that statement our motto!

  26. Andy

    “GovNo // Dec 11, 2012 at 11:24 am

    There’s actually no way to tell how many or few there are. There probably are some though.”

    I’d really be surprised if there were not any plants in the Libertarian Party. A plant could be somebody who has been going to meetings for years, and could even have the respect of a lot of LP members. It could be a person that you’d never even suspect, or it may be a person that you do suspect, but you can’t prove anything implicating them.

    It is a documented fact that the government has sent plants into other organizations, so why would the Libertarian Party be immune to this?

    What are things that plants could do? Compile and report information on other Libertarian Party members. Help keep the party from getting further ahead. A plant would probably make it look like they are doing things to get the party ahead, but then finds ways to make sure certain things don’t get done, or get done in a half ass manner, or stall things out and make the party waste a lot of time, engage in infighting, etc… A plant could try to make sure that the party avoids certain political issues, or even try to send the party off in non-libertarian directions. A plant may do nothing beyond acting as an informant.

    Who could a plant be working for? Maybe the CIA. Maybe the FBI. Maybe the NSA or the Department of Defense or Homeland Security. Maybe even a foreign group like the Mossad or MI6. Maybe the Republican Party. Maybe the Democratic Party. Maybe something else.

    A plant could be somebody that you suspect, or it could be somebody that you’d never suspect.

    It would be very easy for a plant to infiltrate the Libertarian Party. All they’d have to do is send in the minimum $25 and sign the membership statement (who cares if they really believe it or not) and then show up at some meetings. How difficult is this? Maintaining cover would be very easy as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if the LP has been infiltrated for many years (the same goes with other minor parties). That’s probably one of the reasons that the party has not been more successful.

    The bottom line is that I do not trust everyone who claims to be a Libertarian. Always keep your guard up and don’t trust anybody.

  27. Andy

    Here’s something from Lew Rockwell on plants:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/53938.html

    From the article:

    “March 23, 2010
    ‘Has the FBI Infiltrated the Tea Parties?’
    Posted by Lew Rockwell on March 23, 2010 06:39 AM

    A friend asked me that question yesterday. Of course, I said. We know that Homeland Security considers Ron Paul supporters and other libertarians to be potential terrorists (which is all you need to know about the state’s use of that term). In the 1970s, the FBI had agents at the tiny Libertarian party’s conventions. Now the FBI and other spy agencies are vastly bigger. There are the federal and state DHSs. Then there is the CIA, other intelligence agencies, and what used to be called the Red Squads of state and local police departments. There are probably hundreds of thousands of government spies in the land of the free.”

  28. GovNo

    Rule number one for government plants: accuse other people of being government plants so as to focus suspicion away from yourself :-D

  29. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    GovNo and GovMart would be my first suspects ! Let’s give them the trunk test !

    Oh you don’t know about the trunk test!

    The suspects are carried to the woods (forest for you educated folk) and tied to the trunk of a fallen tree. The questions are then answered truthfully or else the bullwhips are used………

    Sounds barbaric doesn’t it ? It is !

    Trust but VERIFY……..

    “Remember When Our Rights Mattered?” – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=445

    I Made the DHS List – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=669

    “You think all those little cameras are for traffic control.” – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=289

  30. Andy

    “GovNo // Dec 11, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Rule number one for government plants: accuse other people of being government plants so as to focus suspicion away from yourself :-D”

    If somebody wants to suspect me that’s fine. They’d be wrong, but don’t trust anybody.

  31. GovNo

    I suspect that the plants may make up a large share of those leading the party.

    That would ensure that an effective Libertarian Party would never develop.

    Since there’s already a Libertarian Party that gets relatively nowhere, it keeps a more effective one from rising up.

    It may be more subtle than that though.

    But I certainly don’t have a hard time believing that it is crawling with saboteurs and stool pigeons.

    I would even buy that it once was, but they have studied us enough to conclude we will never get anywhere due to our own self defeating ways that are intrinsic to the libertarian personality type and reassigned their agents to groups that have more potential to cause trouble for them.

    Maybe they are keeping a few around just in case?

    There’s really no way to tell from the outside.

  32. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    It’s odd that the subject of plants has shown up on this thread. I hereby admit that I believe Wayne Allyn Root was a plant. Many people would disagree with that, and just think that he had a colossal ego that made him act the way he did. He was so good at destroying the Libertarian brand, however, that I believe he was doing it deliberately.

  33. Stewart Flood

    I don’t believe that Root was a plant, or that Barr was either.

    Root is a self-promoter with a serious ego problem. He came over, believing the Rs would fail and he’d be on the shore first while others were still scrambling for life boats.

    He didn’t pretend to believe everything a libertarian normally believes. He was always pushing to soften the edges on what our stand is on certain issues, and constantly called himself a Reagan Libertarian.

    He wasn’t a plant.

    Bob Barr, who I got to know quite well while working with him on the LNC, was also not a plant. He was someone who started as a democrat (look up his history, he did!), became a republican, was elected, served and “carried the water” for the leadership, then was knocked out of office — in part by Libertarians!!!

    So he came over to our side. He had a lot of baggage, and he’d changed his opinion on a lot of issues, but no matter what he did he could not be accepted. Unlike Root, he did not try to change our positions, but tried to come to terms with them and figure out how to accept rational libertarian beliefs as his own. Unfortunately, he was never accepted, so he left.

    Was Bob Barr a “perfect” libertarian? Of course not. Was Root? Far from it! But neither were plants.

    I would say that there are certainly plants in some state parties. It is clear that there are several states where the chair can’t even understand what a libertarian is and acts like a dictator.

    Nevada? Plant. Oregon? Two plants (both sides).

    I’m sure there are others, but these states are clearly under the control of non-libertarian leadership.

  34. Andy

    “Stewart Flood // Dec 11, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    I don’t believe that Root was a plant, or that Barr was either.”

    I don’t know for sure if either of them were plants (as in if they were actively working with outside forces to sabotage the Libertarian Party), but they both certainly displayed some suspicious behavior.

    One thing that really made Barr look suspicious was that he used to work for the CIA. Maybe he never left.

    Look at what they’ve both done since then. Neither of them are in the party anymore, and they both endorsed Mitt Romney for President.

    Maybe their mission was to infiltrate the Libertarian Party to subvert it. Not enough people were buying into them so eventually they were losing their effectiveness so they both ended up quiting.

    I know that we can’t prove anything so this is all speculation, but I think that the subject of plants being sent in to the Libertarian Party and greater liberty movement is a very real concern that should not be ignored.

  35. Andy

    “and he’d changed his opinion on a lot of issues,”

    Did he really? Or was he just telling Libertarians what they wanted to hear so he’d get the nomination?

    Also, there were hints that he really hadn’t changed that much, such as:

    1) While he was a sitting member of the LNC he wrote an article that was posted on his website where he came out in support of US military intervention in Columbia to fight the drug war.

    2) A week or two prior to the 2008 LP National Convention he appeared on Hannity & Colmes, and Sean Hannity pinned him down with a question about the War on Drugs by asking him if he would support ending the drug war in the state of Georgia and he said no.

    3) While sitting as a member of the LNC, he continued to raise money for Republican Party candidates, and when you examine the list of Republican candidates he was raising money for you’ll find that most of them were big government Republicans as they were not even remotely libertarian.

    4) He purposely avoided every debate prior to the final debate at the Libertarian Party National Convention in Denver. This was the only debate where all of the questions were known in advance and where the audience could not ask questions. He conveniently did not announce that he was running until after the last state LP convention, and he skipped the two unscripted debates that were held at the LP National Convention in Denver prior to the final debate.

    “but no matter what he did he could not be accepted”

    I think that he would have been accepted by a lot more people if he had come out as a more hardcore Libertarian and had run a better campaign.

  36. Andy

    What kind of person calling themselves a Libertarian would endorse Mitt Romney for President? Mitt Romney is not even remotely libertarian.

    Barr actually endorsed Newt Gingrich in the primaries and then Mitt Romney in the general election.

    Anyone who’d endorse Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney for anything other than a prison cell is not a libertarian.

    The fact that Barr and Root both endorsed Mitt Romney for President tells me that neither of them was ever sincere about being a Libertarian.

  37. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    So, I can’t help but wonder, since there’s been litle comment on this thread besides the subject of infiltraitors (deliberate typo), do people feel that Silvestri is a plant? Or how about Brett? I was suspicious of him (Pujonis) at the beginning, but he seems sincere in his activism.

  38. paulie

    No idea who is or isn’t a plant, I don’t think you would be able to tell. For plants to be effective they would have to act in a lot of different ways, I would think, so they could not be easily detected.

    What I do find interesting, though, is how little comment this thread has received from Nevada people. Even LG said she would be back with the dirt and never came back. A few people from there left cursory comments but no one really said much. And as far as I can tell from all the usual groups it’s been the same on facebook.

    I get the feeling something may be brewing and they don’t want to let the cat out of the bag yet?

  39. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Paulie @ 56: “I get the feeling something may be brewing and they don’t want to let the cat out of the bag yet?”

    I agree with you here, Paulie. It could be that people are just weary of hearing about the struggles unique to each state, but I sense that isn’t the case.

  40. Marc Montoni

    There is actually quite a bit of precedent for feds (and state and local cops as well) to set up and run fronts to attract people of a like mindset.

    Most of the “stings” we are treated to so much these days are usually stories of feds setting up fake organizations and duping usually rather stupid people into doing whatever the g-men intended.

    These turn into self-feeding enterprises:

    – agency needs high-profile arrests
    – sets up sting organization
    – dupes a young & dumb individual using all the psy tactics they’ve learned over the years
    – the stool pigeon tries to perform the act
    – stool pigeon’s former ‘friends’ bust him
    – the goon squad gets its budget request and a pat on the back.

    So much of law enforcement — especially at the federal level — these days involves manipulating people into doing things that they’d probably never bother doing without trained manipulators working on them for months with stolen taxpayer money.

    There is a reason that skeptics abound these days, who simply assume *every* federal bust is a bunch of smoke, mirrors and lies. We have gotten so inured to what these people are doing that it’s just a complete farce to us anymore.

    Besides the fact of the almost universal unconstitutionality of fed busts as a whole.

  41. Marc Montoni

    And I agree that we’re never going to know who is a plant.

    It’s enough for me that someone causes more havoc among his colleagues than growth for the Party, that he doesn’t belong in the LP and should apply his talents somewhere else.

    Barr and Root both fit that description. Silvestri apparently does as well. I’m not going to mention any other names because they all know who they are.

  42. FLAMETHROWING LIBERTARIAN !

    @59 And I agree that we’re never going to know who is a plant.

    It’s enough for me that someone causes more havoc among his colleagues than growth for the Party, that he doesn’t belong in the LP and should apply his talents somewhere else.

    Barr and Root both fit that description. Silvestri apparently does as well. I’m not going to mention any other names because they all know who they are
    * * * * * * * * * * *

    AGREED 100% ! That’s why they are here, to continue to slow any real progress. You will know them by their fruits !

    TEXAS LP STUFF – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=113

    ILLINOIS LP STUFF – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=125

  43. JT

    Andy: “It is a documented fact that the government has sent plants into other organizations, so why would the Libertarian Party be immune to this?”

    Because Libertarians aren’t a major threat to the duopoly?

    It’s one thing for state Republican or Democratic parties to call voters with the goal of convincing them not to vote Libertarian in certain elections. It’s another to think that there’s a concerted effort to infiltrate state Libertarian parties so as to destroy them. I doubt that they feel that that threatened by Libertarians, even if they don’t include them in debates.

    If there’s credible evidence that a Libertarian is doing that, then it should certainly be addressed. Otherwise, it’s just speculation & shouldn’t be a major concern, IMO. Libertarians have other proven problems to deal with.

    As for Barr, 2008 convention delegates had a fair opportunity to give the nomination to hardcore Libertarian Mary Ruwart instead. He won it (eventually) without posing as a hardcore Libertarian. You reap what you sow.

  44. GovNo

    I doubt that they feel that that threatened by Libertarians

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13269285/MIAC-Report-Libertarians-Are-Terrorists

    The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

    “Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) provides a public safety partnership consisting of local, state and federal agencies, as well as the public sector and private entities that will collect, evaluate, analyze, and disseminate information and intelligence to the agencies tasked with Homeland Security responsibilities in a timely, effective, and secure manner,” explains the MIAC website. “MIAC is the mechanism to collect incident reports of suspicious activities to be evaluated and analyzed in an effort to identify potential trends or patterns of terrorist or criminal operations within the state of Missouri. MIAC will also function as a vehicle for two-way communication between federal, state and local law enforcement community within our region.”

    MIAC is part of the federal “fusion” effort now underway around the country. “As of February 2009, there were 58 fusion centers around the country. The Department has deployed 31 officers as of December 2008 and plans to have 70 professionals deployed by the end of 2009. The Department has provided more than $254 million from FY 2004-2007 to state and local governments to support the centers,” explains the Department of Homeland Security on its website. Missouri is mentioned as a participant in this federal “intelligence” effort.

    … ACLU issued a news release highlighting the activity of a fusion center in Texas as the “latest example of inappropriate police intelligence operations targeting political, religious and social activists for investigation,” in particular “Muslim civil rights organizations and anti-war protest groups.”

    In regard to supposed militia movement literature and media, the MIAC report mentions Aaron Russo’s America: Freedom to Fascism….

    See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

    Range of targets

    In an interview with the BBC’s Andrew Marr, MIT professor of linguistics and political activist Noam Chomsky spoke about the purpose and the targets of COINTELPRO saying, “COINTELPRO was a program of subversion carried out not by a couple of petty crooks but by the national political police, the FBI, under four administrations… by the time it got through, I won’t run through the whole story, it was aimed at the entire new left, at the women’s movement, at the whole black movement, it was extremely broad. Its actions went as far as political assassination.”[31][dubious – discuss]

    According to the Church Committee:

    While the declared purposes of these programs were to protect the “national security” or prevent violence, Bureau witnesses[who?] admit that many of the targets were nonviolent and most had no connections with a foreign power. Indeed, nonviolent organizations and individuals were targeted because the Bureau believed they represented a “potential” for violence — and nonviolent citizens who were against the war in Vietnam were targeted because they gave “aid and comfort” to violent demonstrators by lending respectability to their cause.

    The imprecision of the targeting is demonstrated by the inability of the Bureau to define the subjects of the programs. The Black Nationalist program, according to its supervisor, included “a great number of organizations that you might not today characterize as black nationalist but which were in fact primarily black.” Thus, the nonviolent Southern Christian Leadership Conference was labeled as a Black Nationalist-“Hate Group.”

    Furthermore, the actual targets were chosen from a far broader group than the titles of the programs would imply. The CPUSA program targeted not only Communist Party members but also sponsors of the National Committee to Abolish the House Un-American Activities Committee and civil rights leaders allegedly under Communist influence or deemed to be not sufficiently “anti-Communist”. The Socialist Workers Party program included non-SWP sponsors of anti-war demonstrations which were cosponsored by the SWP or the Young Socialist Alliance, its youth group. The Black Nationalist program targeted a range of organizations from the Panthers to SNCC to the peaceful Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and included every Black Student Union and many other black student groups. New Left targets ranged from the SDS to the InterUniversity Committee for Debate on Foreign Policy, from Antioch College (“vanguard of the New Left”) to the New Mexico Free University and other “alternate” schools, and from underground newspapers to students’ protesting university censorship of a student publication by carrying signs with four-letter words on them.

    Examples of surveillance, spanning all presidents from FDR to Nixon, both legal and illegal, contained in the Church Committee report:[32]

    President Roosevelt asked the FBI to put in its files the names of citizens sending telegrams to the White House opposing his “national defense” policy and supporting Col. Charles Lindbergh.
    President Truman received inside information on a former Roosevelt aide’s efforts to influence his appointments, labor union negotiating plans, and the publishing plans of journalists.
    President Eisenhower received reports on purely political and social contacts with foreign officials by Bernard Baruch, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.
    The Kennedy administration had the FBI wiretap a congressional staff member, three executive officials, a lobbyist, and a Washington law firm. US Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy received the fruits of an FBI wire tap on Martin Luther King, Jr. and an electronic listening device targeting a congressman, both of which yielded information of a political nature.
    President Johnson asked the FBI to conduct “name checks” of his critics and members of the staff of his 1964 opponent, Senator Barry Goldwater. He also requested purely political intelligence on his critics in the Senate, and received extensive intelligence reports on political activity at the 1964 Democratic Convention from FBI electronic surveillance.
    President Nixon authorized a program of wiretaps which produced for the White House purely political or personal information unrelated to national security, including information about a Supreme Court Justice.

    The COINTELPRO documents show numerous cases of the FBI’s intentions to prevent and disrupt protests against the Vietnam War. Many techniques were used to accomplish this task. “These included promoting splits among antiwar forces, encouraging red-baiting of socialists, and pushing violent confrontations as an alternative to massive, peaceful demonstrations.” One 1966 COINTELPRO operation attempted to redirect the Socialist Workers Party from their pledge of support for the antiwar movement.[33]

    The FBI claims that it no longer undertakes COINTELPRO or COINTELPRO-like operations. However, critics claim that agency programs in the spirit of COINTELPRO targeted groups such as the Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador,[34] the American Indian Movement,[2][35] Earth First!,[36] the White Separatist Movement,[37] and the Anti-Globalization Movement

    So, targets for surveillance and infiltration have ranged from the very mainstream and acceptable to tiny extremist fringe groups, and everything in between.

    And at least some leaked reports have specifically named former Libertarian Party candidates including Ron Paul, Bob Barr and Aaron Russo.

  45. Andy

    JT said: “Because Libertarians aren’t a major threat to the duopoly?”

    This is very short sighted thinking. The Libertarian Party represents a major threat to the establishment parties (ie-the Democrats and Republicans). There are a lot of people making a heck of a lot of money, and wielding a heck of a lot of power, and this is something that the Libertarian Party wants to shut down, so of course they are going to feel threatened by the Libertarian Party and will do things to make sure that the party does not become successful. This is why they pass ballot access laws, shut our candidates out of debates, exert influence to keep us out of the media, and do other things to keep the party down. What makes you think that they would not send plants into the Libertarian Party to sabotage it, or at the very least to gather more information on party members and party activities? There are organizations that are smaller than the Libertarian Party (like little peace groups) where it is a documented fact that government plants infiltrated the organization, so I think that it is naive to assume that the Libertarian Party would be immune to this.

  46. JT

    Andy: “What makes you think that they would not send plants into the Libertarian Party to sabotage it, or at the very least to gather more information on party members and party activities?”

    I already said what makes me think that. The system is already so rigged (as you mentioned) against the LP threatening those parties for offices that wield a lot of power. I don’t think that’s being short-sighted–I think that it’s being realistic. You seem to believe the LP is much stronger than it actually is & are engaging in arbitrary speculation that I don’t think is productive.

    As I said, however, if there’s credible evidence proving that the Ds or Rs planted anyone with the purpose of sabotaging the LP, then that would be a serious matter. I can’t deny that there might be because I can’t prove a negative. But so far I haven’t seen any reason to think that–just some opportunistic people who aren’t very libertarian & haven’t made much of an effort to hide it.

  47. GovNo

    You don’t have to be a major threat. A potential threat is considered sufficient grounds. There’s easily available public evidence that the LP is considered a potential threat.

  48. GovNo

    The CPUSA, SWP, Black Panther Party and others were smaller than the LP. The SCLC and many other targets were expressly non-violent. Neither being small nor expressing an opposition to revolutionary violence saved any of these groups from being targeted.

  49. JT

    GovNo: “The CPUSA, SWP, Black Panther Party and others were smaller than the LP.”

    This was during a very different historical context when many Americans thought that America might be overrun by communists & those groups were viewed as violent conduits (regardless of what they said, they did indeed perpetrate violence or support those who did). Many Americans aren’t scared that America is going to be enslaved by revolutionary libertarians. But if you want to say that the LP is probably infiltrated by plants, go ahead. I haven’t seen real evidence of it.

  50. Daddyfatsax

    If by “Plant” you mean disgruntled Republican or Democrat who seeks out an alternative to the two major parties…then we have plenty. Fortunately, they either revert back to their party and accept the shortcomings, or find another third party that fits their mold better. If they do stay, and espouse the tenets of Libertarianism…then they are welcome in my book…but the oath to not initiate force still applies, and should be enforced. Root advocated way to many GOP stances, and deserved the criticism and dirty cold tip of the boot up his arse. I just wish I knew more about his lack of true libertarian chops before I voted for him. Shame on me for not doing more homework. Regarding Brett, I stand with him because he has shown more backbone and work ethic than the whole NVLP excom put together. To have someone on the NVLP that told everyone he was going to run in the last election, then back out without filing or telling anyone so that someone else could file…that is what a plant does…and that is now representing NVLP. I’m disgusted, and that is all I have to say about Nevada. Goodnight now. –Rev

  51. Andy

    Daddyfatsax // Dec 12, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    If by ‘Plant’ you mean disgruntled Republican or Democrat who seeks out an alternative to the two major parties…then we have plenty.”

    This is not what I mean by plant. What I mean is a person who gets involved with the Libertarian Party and pretends to be a sincere Libertarian, but who is really there to subvert/sabotage the organization from within, and/or to gather information on Libertarian Party members and activities, and to report this information to whatever organization sent the person in as a plant (it could be the CIA, the FBI, or whatever other organization would be motivated to do such a thing).

    There are also people who are not necessarily plants, but they may get involved with an organization for some other ulterior motive, as in their own personal profit or to promote their own agenda, but who are not working with any organization, as in they are doing it on their own.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Libertarian Party has been the victim of both categories of infiltrators over the years.

  52. Govnoment

    Various definitions of “plant” according to urbandictionary.com:

    1. A male or female that does not have sexual ambitions. 2. The person standing at the corner of a bar not socializing. 3. Asexual

    an agent of misinformation, placed in a group to deceive, distract, or provoke

    A movie critic; one who is paid off from a major movie studio to give a fake positive fluff review. Sometimes the said “critic” doesn’t even exist at all, and is just a fake name with a fake quote. Studios use this tactic as damage control for a potential flop.

    Yet another word that means “marijuana”

    that green shit yo momma be waterin

    Used in the entertainment business, when someone accomplish something with a “help” or a “connection” with someone from the inside.

    1: V. To place incriminating evidence in a place likely to be found by the authorities.

    2: N. A green organism, often leafy, popular for its ability to turn poisonous gasses into the popular hallucinagen, oxygen. These blobs of cells are well known for causing rashes, indegestion, death, and putting holes through the feet of unwary hikers. They are to be watched carefully for signs of rebellion.

    1: an organism of varying colors, may or may not have blossoms or bear fruit, has different ways to germinate or reproduce, usually by pollination by bees or birds.

    2. someone who is paid to sit in a comedy show and laugh at every joke the comedian says, prompting others to laugh

    A person put in place(hence ‘Plant’) to divert things. Plants are used to divert movements, plans, plots, or whatever an opposing force wants to stop. Using a plant is a clever way of destroying an opposing movment without seeming suspicious or have to get you hands dirty. Sometimes plants are sent my one group to an enemy group to act as if he/she is part of the enemy group and try to gain influence just to mess the group up, or make them look bad. If democrats wanted to make republicans bad, they could use a plant that fakes like a republican and tries to make republicans look bad, and in turn make the democrats look better, even though the plant is playing a part prompted by the democrats. Or say if you playing a competitive game, and the opposite team sends in a plant to your team, acting as a friend, but he/she is really there to mess your team up and divert it so that the other team(who placed the plant) wins.

    Easily the best kingdom on Earth.

    In a video game, a player the enemy placed on your team to intentionally play bad and throw the game in their favor.

    v. to have sexual intercourse

    uterus (pear-shaped muscular organ of gestation located
    in the pelvis).

    to bury somebody after death

    orgy or orgiastic activity

  53. Daddyfatsax

    Andy, I knew what you meant…and I stand by my statement. I don’t think it matters if there is a “plant” by your definition…the only way they can do damage is if we allow them to influence our beliefs (WAR)…which, as it turns out…he couldn’t, and was drummed out…or left of his own devices…which is fine with me either way. As far as a gov’t agent infiltrating and keeping tabs on us…they could be my grocer, my barber or my bartender and get the same info on me…I’m not too shy about my politics. I also don’t worry about Alqaieda plants working at the water resevoir, the nuclear power plant or driving my cab. I can’t live in fear of so many conspiracies…not that they aren’t true…but without evidence to support it, I can’t devote too much time to worrying about it. -REV

  54. Ayn R. Key

    I have to admit, if Barr had run with Kubby instead of Root I would have embraced the 2008 ticket. But the Barr/Root ticket made it look to much like an effort to prevent libertarians from running on the Libertarian ticket in 2008.

  55. Andy

    “(WAR)…which, as it turns out…he couldn’t, and was drummed out…or left of his own devices…which is fine with me either way.”

    I think that he exposed himself when he slipped up on that talk radio show by saying that people should vote for Mitt Romney in the general election. After this, he realized that he wasn’t going to get any further in influencing or getting ahead in the Libertarian Party, so he took his toys and went back home to the Republican Party.

  56. David Colborne

    I’m a big fan of Hanlon’s Razor, personally:

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

    I personally think that, when you’re dealing with third parties, you’re not exactly dealing with the cream of the crop, politically or strategically speaking. That’s just a simple matter of numbers – most successful people naturally gravitate to other successful people so they can all do successful things (see network effect). Since the LP isn’t very big, we don’t have a bunch of people that can get together in one place, plan, and execute at higher levels.

    Fortunately, we are slowly and steadily getting better, and as we are, we get more and more people that know what they’re doing and are willing to help our cause. To Ron Paul’s credit, his group did a fantastic job of getting a lot of liberty activists that would normally spend their time debating minarchist arcana around successful political activists, where they could absorb some useful habits through osmosis. As some of them grow disillusioned with the GOP, it’s not uncommon for them to “recharge their batteries” in the LP, if only for a few years; during their “recharging”, they frequently transmit successful political habits to whatever local LPers are in their contact zone. This cross-pollination, I think, is a big part of why Gary Johnson was relatively successful, in historical terms, compared to previous LP presidential candidates and why I’m rather optimistic about 2014 and 2016.

    Now, as for the original subject of the article… there might be something brewing, but again, I believe in Hanlon’s Razor. It’s quite possible – alarmingly so, I believe – that nobody knows what’s going on here. I know the LPNV has been posting events on their Meetup page, and we’ve been doing what we can to keep some activity going in Reno. Beyond that, there’s not much to do except rest, relax, and enjoy the holidays.

    I just hope we get an announcement on when the convention is soon.

  57. Jill Pyeatt

    Wow, what a concept that no one really kniows what’s going on in Nevada. I admit that’s a scenario I didn’t consider,
    David.

  58. paulie

    I can’t help but think that some people know something. If you look at the past threads they are usually pretty vocal about these internal conflicts. If they were just ignoring IPR and going off about it on facebook that would make sense. But they have been pretty quiet there too as far as I can tell.

  59. Daddyfatsax

    It must be a conspiracy Paulie…or maybe we are just sitting by and waiting for the damn “leadership” to announce the convention? Either way…there isn’t much more to say about it.

  60. Roger Roots

    I don’t know much about the current situation in the Nevada LP, but I was a member of that community a decade or so ago and I know Silvestri fairly well. I’ve gone trailrunning with him many times, backpacked with him in the Grand Canyon, camped with him at Zion National Park, Grand Teton National Park and probably elsewhere. He’s definitely not a “plant” in any sense. In fact he is a highly committed LP leader who has donated and otherwise contributed a great deal to the LP and libertarianism generally.

    Of course I don’t agree with him on a number of things and I know numerous Nevada LP’ers (who are also great friends of mine) who have “split” with Joe over a variety of issues. But he’s a generally decent guy. Things will work out in the end.

  61. LibertarianGirl

    Those were the days werent they Roger, when we all got along..Joe is not a plant , Jim was never a plant either..

    …as for convention , rest assured shenanigans will abound….i know for a fact from one of Joes former supporters that last time it was clearly discussed , at the kitchen table caucus meetings ,to say the event is one time and place and then hold it another….i learned this secret from someone making sure i knew the tactics being considered……i then pointed out that , in fact , didnt the LPNevda do justthat s they had the business portion slated for a later time then started earlier and considered editing the FB post to reflect the new time literally minutes before it started as proper notification….

    , the plan worked as hoped and successfully kept legendary juggernaut Jim Duensing from using procedure to voice dissent or even the opportunity to run for office.

    the defector then assured me that the mix-up was an accident and not underhanded…..

    so we can bet the only notification will be on the website hidden and hard to find OR only crtain people will get a postcard or something tricky , they have no choice , joe stands no chance in a fair battle…

    this is the latest date ever to have no formal convention planned……bylaws amendments have to be posted 60 or 30 days out , expect and news of a time to be just shy of allowing bylaws amendments……

  62. LibertarianGirl

    as forbeing in the know heres what i know….Burns contacted me about forming and working opposition long ago last summer , i was interested while not agreeing with all of Burns ideas as I was willing to jump onboard whoever was gonna actually do the work to win…….because its very simple , joe s wins because he works all year counting ang finding supporters , brow beating others into submission voting or alienating them, he spends at least as much time fortifying his grip as he does activism and frankly good intentions and a desire for change wont beat him….

    anyways, i didnt hear from Burns when i was supposed to but i did hear from Brett and other Silvestri folk who to their credit became aware of his “issues” way quicker than i did. that was always part of the plan to stay quiet ( mostly) make friends and wait for joe to b joe…..

    when brett pitched e about mounting opposition i was much more excited about the chances for success as he was influential with at least half of the all the new folk and also willing to work with and include folks like Jim Burns etc…..

    I dont think brett knew exactly how much energy it would take and sadly he was forced to resign. I feel like Brett has alot of important projects to keep him busy and that what he’s been forced to deal with and the idea of really trying to win back NV may seem useless and futile to him.

    now rewind back to the point where i fell silent…..the pathetic truth is i got a real go-to job for the first time in i wont admit how long….being a real adult was a slap in my face as i fell into bed before 9 most nights……i now have much respect for those activists that work and still put in work……it kinda makes all the shit ive ever done less impressive wen u realize i had nothing but free time…lol…

    yes ive been quiet here and yes ive been silent on FB , frankly not one of u checked in to find out why i went from FB guru to zilch……knwing secrets? conspiracies and such……..sorry , nope , nothing that intriguing , i just got a life…..

    now Jim D is backing burns and the event they held friday i was not invited to…im certain it was an oversight…..lol …so with Brett focused on real work where he is appreciated and the funny way Jim D still cant include me- i see no reason trying to work with someone who clearly hates me or to convince and rally those who are doing good work elsewhere , etc etc

    so in conclusion …..yes there will be opposition, is it cohesive and organized? no……if i were betting id say silvestri wins by way of his tenacity and maneuvering \
    anyways my job ended and as for my intentions , i plan to work with whomever on the goal of replacing joe and thats as far as i can promise…Jim Burnss also has an entire agenda to promote and while hi intentions are pure I cannot support evrything he wants and so. I geuss ill be going rogue or following tim hagans lead….

    with duensing or burns u need to accept both these guys have reps that precede them and the fence sitters and many others will likely be turned off from opposition led by either (not sayin its right but it just is) so what we end up with isa few differing groups , not working together, all with their own vision showing up to convention and having the numbers to win but not the strategy or organization to take over.

    its nice to know i was missed:)

  63. Starchild

    Govnoment @76 – LOL at these definitions of “plant”:

    that green shit yo momma be waterin

    N. A green organism, often leafy, popular for its ability to turn poisonous gasses into the popular hallucinagen, oxygen. These blobs of cells are well known for causing rashes, indegestion, death, and putting holes through the feet of unwary hikers. They are to be watched carefully for signs of rebellion.

    Libertarian Girl @88 – I’m sure you were missed, and glad to hear the reason was an actual job. I didn’t miss you, but that’s only because I’m on here too sporadically myself to be much aware of who’s around and who isn’t.

    Good luck getting the Nevada LP back on track. If you can’t manage to get new leadership due to shenanigans or whatever, perhaps the various disaffiliated regions might consider forming their own group in order to have some kind of effective statewide organization?

  64. paulie

    Hi LG –

    Thanks for coming back to this and commenting. YES you have been missed. Glad you had a job though (you never did tell me what it was, except SA, but I don’t know what that stands for). I don’t keep up with individual people all that much on facebook, I have 5k “friends” on there so I pretty much have to remember to go to your page. Call me sometime. Or email, or message. Some kind of direct contact.

    now Jim D is backing burns and the event they held friday i was not invited to…im certain it was an oversight…..lol …so with Brett focused on real work where he is appreciated and the funny way Jim D still cant include me- i see no reason trying to work with someone who clearly hates me or to convince and rally those who are doing good work elsewhere , etc etc

    Apparently there was more than one event page created for the event https://www.facebook.com/events/420875751319385/420875754652718/ On this one you did say you would go, you must have forgot.

    I geuss ill be going rogue

    I like it when you go rogue :-)

    Hopefully you’ll have some time to keep stopping by here again.

  65. Jill Pyeatt

    I found this comment on the Comstock Libertarians FB page. I’ll omit who wrote it, because I haven’t asked his permission to post it here:

    “Since running Brett out of the LP Nevada Excomm, can anyone name 2 things that the “leadership” in the LPN has done (PS, I know they had a shitty band at a “Samuel Adams Beer Night” gettogether…but is that LP growth or just an excuse to have a beer?). Do we know when the convention is yet? Are there any upcoming events to publicize the LP position vs what the GOP and Dems have done in congress? Maybe a public showing of displeasure at the GOP Moderate Mike purging of conservative leadership in state politics? I get more from Chuck Muth’s emails than I do with LP leadership…I know that the schools are on holiday break, and a large percentage of our “leadership” are school teachers…but don’t we expect more from them than we do their union? Sad state of the LP in this state.”

  66. paulie

    And my reply to that:

    There should be a mix of business and social events. My former roommate in Auburn, AL about 10 years ago, used to live in Vegas in the early 90s and was one of the leaders of the state party there then, as well as with us in Alabama when he lived here, now lives in Vegas again. He says since he sees only social events and no business meetings he has seen no reason to get involved with the state party there this time.

  67. Anonymous1

    Seems like things in Nevada are on hold for a while as rumor is there will be no convention until september or october

  68. Pingback: LP Nevada Chair Responds to Resignation of Brett Pojunis From Position of State Secretary | Independent Political Report: Third Party News

  69. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Does anyone know who else is planning to run for state chair (assuming Brett still does)?

  70. Libertariangirl

    no but hes slated for a spot with all of us should we prevail , there are a few people we will continually put up regardless of how things pan out. hes one of them , in that very small group of people completely logical and fair……Hagan , Moulton etc

    he’s a freaking treasure i just cant figure out while he’s hung on with us after thtravesty he’s been dealt reinventing the wheel in NNV for the umpteenth time.:) just glad he did

    see you in Vegas David:)

  71. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    We’ll need someone there to blog from IPR.
    Maybe they’ll let you in without paying as “Press”, Debra. Seriously.

  72. paulie

    Too bad Colborne won’t go for chair.

    I likewise don’t think they will let you blog, but you are signed up to write for IPR in case it happens.

  73. paulie

    It would be funny if someone from mainstream press was turned away because they forgot to bring their ID or didn’t renew it. Or just moved from another state and hadn’t switched it. People in the news business move around a lot.

    What about if the LA Times wanted to cover them…no go?

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