Interview with Virgil Goode

Virgil Goode, the 2012 Constitution Party presidential candidate, called me back the other day in response to my inquiry about the “fiscal cliff.”

Goode feels the fiscal cliff is not as bad as Obamacare, but will cause some problems, especially the increased taxes. But it is not as big of a problem as media is saying.

Goode says Obamacare a big problem for job creation. Small businesses do not want to hire because of Obamacare. He turned the conversation to decreasing legal immigration and stopping illegal immigration. He opposes the idea of stapling a green card to tech grad diplomas. He feels those college places should go to Americans in the first place.

Asked how his immigration focus fits with the Constitution, Goode rejected that. He is not saying restricting immigration is part of the Constitution. Rather he thinks immigration is a bigger issue than the Constitution, and that we won’t have to worry about the Constitution if immigration destroys the country.

Pressed on constitutional issues – he said we should not become involved in foreign conflicts without a declaration of war.

46 thoughts on “Interview with Virgil Goode

  1. johnO

    Will Rick Jore run again on the Constitution line in Montana? He seemed to be a success story for them on state level.

  2. paulie

    Andy was referring to Virgil, not Rick Jore.

    And as far as that goes I have given up on expecting Virgil to pay the rest of what he owes us. Someone in the Constitution Party should, especially if they would like us to help them in the future.

  3. johnO

    Sorry my mistake. Constitution Party should pay their debts. If Virgil Goode doesn’t then how can they preach fiscal conservatism? All they have then is banning abortion and banning gay marriage.

  4. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    Open Borders and the Welfare state = Disaster. Look at CA and their budget crisis. We must END the Welfare/Warfare state or the Good Times certainly will NOT roll. With that said, Virgil locked onto that theme in his POTUS run. It held their hardest core, but didn’t seem to bring many in while the LP and GP seem to be adding numbers all over the country from their ’12 efforts.

    Why don’t you guys get your money on signatures delivery? Seems a fair way to operate to me!

    STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES

    We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

    We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

    Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

    We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life — accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action — accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property — accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

    Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.
    * ^ * ^ * ^ * ^ * ^ *
    Ahhhh! How refreshing…………

  5. paulie

    Open Borders and the Welfare state = Disaster.

    Welfare state is a disaster, but Goode supports that. In fact he said saving SS and medicare was one of his main issues.

    Open borders would be great, but Goode is dead set against that…or even the current system of limited immigration. He basically wants to shut down the border completely.

    Why don’t you guys get your money on signatures delivery? Seems a fair way to operate to me!

    The money was coming from Virgil and he wasn’t here so that wasn’t an option. He did pay promptly until the end, but he owes for the last thousand signatures which he is not acknowledging and trying to play games to nickel and dime us out of money even though we got him on the ballot (unlike a lot of other states where he failed) and even though he was already paying less than everyone else and basically piggybacking off the Libertarians and Greens.

  6. Andy

    “With that said, Virgil locked onto that theme in his POTUS run. It held their hardest core, but didn’t seem to bring many in while the LP and GP seem to be adding numbers all over the country from their ’12 efforts.”

    Virgil ran a crap campaign, that’s why they didn’t get that many votes. It really wasn’t because of issues or the party, the campaign just sucked.

    The other reason is because their party as a whole didn’t do much for ballot access for 2012 prior to Virgil getting the nomination, and even after he got the nomination, there were all kinds of mistakes made and they started petitioning at too late a date in a several places.

    “Why don’t you guys get your money on signatures delivery? Seems a fair way to operate to me!”

    That would be nice, but it is not always possible. There was nobody in Alabama to pay us. Their state party didn’t have any money, and their national party had run out of money and shifted things to the Virgil Goode campaign to pay us. Virgil actually did pay us pretty quickly up until after the last turn in, and then it was what is known in the petition business as the “Final Fuck You” where a petition coordinator or proponent either doesn’t pay you at all, or they delay your payment, and/or they look for ways to chisel you out of money unjustly. His entire demeanor changed after the last turn in as well, and he did not seem to appreciate the fact that we got him on the ballot and had a good validity rate as reported by the Secretary of State’s office. Now it has been 3 months and he still hasn’t paid the rest of the money owed, and nobody else from the Constitution Party has stepped up with the rest of the money either (even though they have been informed of the situation).

    Virgil also apparently stiffed a petitioner who worked to get him on the ballot in New York out of something like $4,000, and he stiffed another petitioner that is a long time Constitution Party member who worked for them as a petitioner in several states out of something like $3,400.

    All three of us are getting angrier and angrier by the day.

  7. Andy

    “He did pay promptly until the end, but he owes for the last thousand signatures which he is not acknowledging and trying to play games to nickel and dime us out of money even though we got him on the ballot”

    He also owes a reimbursement for photo copying petition sheets.

    “(unlike a lot of other states where he failed)”

    Yeah, they failed in several places where they should not have failed, including really easy states like Arkansas and Vermont (where you can put a Presidential ticket on the ballot with only 1,000 valid signatures). Their ballot access planning was dreadful.

  8. Andy

    “kevin // Dec 9, 2012 at 12:02 am

    Andy, if you would email me at kevhays01@gmail.com I will attempt to help you get paid and whom ever else is owed money. No promises but Ill do my best.”

    Thanks, but who are you? Are you a member of the Constitution Party, or a lawyer, or what?

  9. kevin

    I am a cp member. Not a leader and I helped on the Goode campaign as I could but I was running my own campaign in NC

  10. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    I don’t like that at all boys. GJ could have broke the record in Alabama if Goode wasn’t on the ballot and now we find out you didn’t even get paid. You should make everyone pay the same if it is the same race. But what the hey…..

    ^ * ^ * ^ * ^ * ^ *
    If the government can’t keep drugs away from inmates who are locked in steel cages, surrounded by barbed wire, watched by armed guards, drug-tested, strip-searched, X-rayed, and videotaped – how can it possibly stop the flow of drugs to an entire nation? – Ron Crickenberger -> http://www.lp.org/

  11. Andy

    “Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day // Dec 9, 2012 at 12:42 am

    I don’t like that at all boys. GJ could have broke the record in Alabama if Goode wasn’t on the ballot”

    Are you going to pay our bills for us? How about you make sure that we get paid a high enough rate to make up for not working another petition, and then we can talk about this some more?

    Also, winning or getting a higher vote total because another candidate is not on the ballot is not exactly a fair contest.

    Furthermore, considering the problems with getting access to public locations for petition signature gathering in states like Alabama (most other states for that matter) having different teams of petitioners going around with different petitions just creates more confusion among the public as to which petition they signed, and it also means that it will be more difficult to petitioners to get the few locations where they can petition without being kicked out.

    “and now we find out you didn’t even get paid. You should make everyone pay the same if it is the same race.”

    It’s not always possible to get paid the same rate on every petition because not every campaign has the same amount of funding. We got as good of a rate as we could get out of them and that was it.

    Also, keep in mind that the Gary Johnson campaign and the LP delayed a larger amount of our payment quite a while (the final payment for that came a day after the last LNC meeting which was in November). Virgil paid us promptly up until the last turn in when he realized he didn’t need us anymore, so then he decided to come up with excuses to not pay and chisel us out of money. Percentage wise, I think it comes out to like we received 88% of the pay for Alabama, and he still owes us the other 12%.

    Virgil apparently still owes another guy something like $4,000 for New York (which ended around the 3rd week of August) and another guy like $3,400 for some other state or states.

    The fact that he still owes petitioners money 3 months after the last petition drives ended is just flat out disgraceful.

  12. Andy

    Oh, and by the way, there have been times where the Libertarian Party’s petition was paying less than other petitions that were being circulated at the same time by the same people. This happened in states where Americans Elect was happening at the same time. Another example is when Joe Kennedy was running for US Senate in Massachusetts as there were a bunch of ballot initiative petitions and some other candidates for US Senate that were paying at the same time.

  13. paulie

    GJ could have broke the record in Alabama if Goode wasn’t on the ballot

    I wouldn’t assume this is true.

    What were the biggest issues for Goode? Cutting down immigration was his #1 top issue. Anti legal abortion and against gay marriage were two other key issues for him. Defending SS and medicare were key issues for him according to his website. In the debates he said he was not in favor of legalizing marijuana.

    So on many of their top issues, the two candidates were the opposite of each other.

    Also, we had Obama, Romney and Stein on the ballot, as well as the option of writing in (although most of those got thrown in the can) as well as not voting.

    I see no reason to assume that all, or even most, of Goode’s votes would have otherwise gone to Johnson.

    And even if they had, keeping other candidates off the ballot is no way for our candidate to earn votes.

    Andy is correct with the rest of @20-21 as well.

  14. Andy

    Paulie said: “So on many of their top issues, the two candidates were the opposite of each other.”

    When it comes to the issue of abortion, it should be kept in mind that as Governor of New Mexico, Gary Johnson signed a bill that BANNED late term abortions, plus, he came out in favor of parental notification if a minor wants to get an abortion. His stance in his Presidential campaign was that the federal government should stay out of the issue of abortion and that it should be left for the states to decide.

    Now I understand that Virgil Goode wanted to go further than that when it comes to stopping abortion, but I’m just pointing out that Gary Johnson’s position on the issue is not 100% in line with the pro-choice on abortion camp.

    Having said this, there were certainly several issues where Gary Johnson and Virgil Goode were far apart (such as on marijuana), so it is not like there was a complete overlap with their potential support base (however, it should be pointed out that when some people vote for a minor party or independent candidate it is more of a protest vote), plus, Gary Johnson is more well known than Virgil Goode, and more importantly, he ran a better campaign than Virgil Goode ran. I mean really, for any short comings the Gary Johnson for President campaign had, it was run a heck of a lot better than the Virgil Goode for President campaign was.

  15. NewFederalist

    Paulie @18… FWIW I believe Kevin used to post at the Constitution Party Discussion Group before it was sold and taken down a few weeks ago. He never overstated anything that I can recall and always seemed to be a straight up guy.

  16. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    Alabama
    Ed Clark 13,318
    Johnson-12,328 = 990

    Goode 2981

    You are prob’ right, but I feel most if not all alternative votes won’t go to the R and Ds so it was possible . Trying to be positive here ! GJ broke the Vote totals in over 30 states and broke the % of the vote in another 20+!

    I’ll be interested to see if Goode and the CP pays these bills. Do you ever have trouble with the GP ? I too feel a gentleman pays their bills in a timely fashion.

    ^ * * * * * * * * ^ ^ ^

    2.0 Economic Liberty
    Libertarians want all members of society to have abundant opportunities to achieve economic success. A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.

  17. Rob

    Virgil Goode and the CP are some of the biggest losers of the election cycle. I know conservatives wanted to rally behind Romney to beat Obama but Goode should have done better, especially with Romney’s record and evangelical suspicions about his religion. For what it’s worth, Rocky Anderson (the guy I voted for) is another big loser of the election cycle.

  18. paulie

    I know conservatives wanted to rally behind Romney to beat Obama but Goode should have done better, especially with Romney’s record and evangelical suspicions about his religion.

    Well, for one thing, they were almost all too scared of Obama to buck the trend, no matter how much Romney sucks. For another, Goode’s campaign was pretty invisible; he had few public speeches or media appearances, little social network presence, and his website was terrible. Combined with the ballot access blunders there just was not much there.

  19. paulie

    You are prob’ right, but I feel most if not all alternative votes won’t go to the R and Ds so it was possible .

    Some would stay home, leave president blank or write in.

    I’ll be interested to see if Goode and the CP pays these bills. Do you ever have trouble with the GP ?

    Once in Utah.


    Email exchange with Constitution Party folks at state and national; including Virgil Goode:


    On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:25 AM, I wrote:

    Note that the attached document says [...] 7852 signatures and we have been told that two sheets (no more than 30 signatures) were volunteer, [...] 7800+ is much more in line with what we thought we had, rather than 6600 or 7200.

    Reply Sept 27:

    The only thing I know to do would be to contact Ms. Sinclair and ask her to count the signatures again. She has stated to me she might have mixed the numbers up and offered to recheck the gross numbers. I know what I have printed receipts for and what Ms. Sinclair signed off on.

    Joshua Cassity

    I replied that same date:

    She told me she was too busy to do it, and if she has some Johnson and Stein signatures mixed in with Goode’s she might have some of Goode’s mixed in with Johnson’s and Stein’s, so she would really have to check all of them.

    I don’t understand why any of this is necessary though.

    The goal here was not to collect signatures just for the sake of collecting signatures, it was to get on the ballot.

    If we collected 10,000 signatures and failed that would be worse than if we collected 5,000 and every single one was valid, right?

    So, why would there be a penalty if it took us slightly fewer signatures to qualify?

    If anything, there should be a bonus.

    If Virgil was prepared to pay for at least 8,000 signatures to get on the ballot, there’s no reason we should get paid less if it took fewer signatures to get the ultimate objective.

    Furthermore, we’ve already HAD the official count from Julie of 7852 for TWO WEEKS now and Josh already told me on the phone that all but two sheets of it was ours. That approximately matches our estimate of what we had based on ongoing reports that people gave us every day of their numbers as well as what everyone estimated for the last day and corresponding numbers on the other two petitions.

    This is no way to treat people that qualified you for the ballot in Alabama in the summer and North Dakota in the winter, that have knocked out states for your party before and qualified every single one we ever worked on going back more than one election, and that do the job right. All while you have other states that you paid more for and failed.

    The other two candidates, Johnson and Stein, spent a lot more than you did to qualify in Alabama.

    Anything less than $20,000 is a tremendous bargain given how difficult it was this time, especially with location hassles in public places.

    The delays in getting the remaining payments have also caused us a lot of time and money.

    Paying the balance due, rather than having Julie recount the signatures and delaying things further just to see if there is some way to pay us less, should be the very least thanks we should get for a job successfully completed under very difficult circumstances.

    After all you had other drives fail, including very easy ones like Arkansas and Vermont and a really big one (Pennsylvania) plus some in between (Nebraska, Kentucky) and at least one that we know of where you were really lucky there was no challenge, based on what I have heard about the intentional disregard of validity there (New York).

    -paulie 415-690-6352

    Constitution Party national ballot access coordination Alison Potter, same day:

    Virgil,

    Everything Paulie says here about the work that he and Andy Jacobs have done for us on ballot access in many election cycles is true. I’ve always found them to be hard working, communicative, and conscientious about the job they do. As far as I can remember, we’ve never failed to gain access in a state they were handling for us.

    As far as I can see everything seems to indicate that we turned in the higher number of signatures that Alabama elections attorney Julie Sinclair says we did. [....]

    That was September 27.

  20. Andy

    “I’ll be interested to see if Goode and the CP pays these bills. Do you ever have trouble with the GP ? I too feel a gentleman pays their bills in a timely fashion.”

    I’ve only worked Green Party on 4 petition drives. The only time there was a problem was the last time, and the problem was that they delayed payment by several weeks, but even so, they did pay and the delay wasn’t for as long as this payment from the Virgil Goode / Constitution Party.

    I’ve worked Constitution Party 6 times and this is the only time that there has been a problem getting paid.

  21. Andy

    FYI, I’ve worked a total of 31 ballot access drives for the Libertarian Party, and the pay has been unreasonably late from the LP 11 times.

  22. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    The LP didn’t stiff anyone, just a little late ! If they would hold their sigs until they are paid they wouldn’t have a problem.

    Have a smoke and RELAX !

    Marijuana Legalization: Poll Suggests Public Support Growing : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/marijuana-legalization-public-support-growing_n_851238.html

    Support for marijuana legalization is slowly rising, like the cloud of smoke you’ll see above Ann Arbor’s 4/20 rally …

    Data compiled by the Pew Research Center and drawn primarily from the General Social Survey has found a consistent trend towards supporting legalization of marijuana for recreational use, but no poll so far has shown a majority in favor.

    In a poll released…by CNN, 41 percent of American adults said they favored legalizing marijuana, while 56 percent opposed. Another poll, conducted early last month by the Pew Research Center, found 45 percent of adults supporting legalization and 50 percent against it.

    The CNN survey polled 824 adults…. and had a margin of error of 3.5 percentage points. The Pew Survey was conducted …. among 1,504 adults and had a three percantage point margin of error.

    Demographic trends show that the movement to embrace legalization will likely continue: Both recent polls reveal younger respondents as the most likely supporters. In the Pew poll, the majority of 18-29 year olds (54 percent favor/42 percent oppose) and a slim plurality of 30-49 year olds (49 percent support/47 percent oppose) said marijuana use should be legal. In the new CNN poll, about as many respondents under 50 said they supported legalizing marijuana (49 percent) as opposed it (50 percent).

    Should surveys begin to show majority support for legalization, however, recent evidence from California suggests anti-marijuana campaigns can still have a big impact on public opinion. Proposition 19, a measure on the 2010′s ballot that would have legalized recreational marijuana use in the state, ultimately failed 53.5 percent to 46.5 percent. All four pollsters conducting multiple surveys during campaign season found a drop in support for the bill over time. Three of the four polls initially revealed a higher level of support than opposition, but all four final polls showed opposition exceeding support.

    The CNN poll found independents more likely to back legalization than either Republicans or Democrats, although none of the partisan groups showed majority support. In the Pew survey from last month, Democrats were most likely to favor legalization, along with a plurality of independents.

    Both the CNN and Pew surveys found those who have attended college much more likely to support legalization than those who have not. According to CNN’s research, those who attended college opposed legalization by a five percentage point margin, while those who did not opposed it by 27 percentage points. The Pew poll, which broke responses down further, similarly found that college graduates and those with some college education were much more likely to support legalization than those with a high school education or less.

    In the CNN poll, non-whites were less likely to support legalizing marijuana than whites, even though, as the Human Rights Watch has reported, blacks will more likely be arrested for drug possession than whites (the CNN poll did not break down the “non-white” category further because the sample sizes would be too small).

    Higher-income individuals were more likely to support legalization than those with lower incomes, CNN also found.

    The polls did not take into account legalization of medical marijuana, which typically yields higher levels of support.

    Unless current trends reverse themselves, future 4/20 rallies could see majority support within a matter of years. Whether that support will remain after opponents attempt to sway public opinion as they did in California remains to be seen.

  23. paulie

    The LP didn’t stiff anyone, just a little late !

    Waiting for months, or sometimes close to or over a year, is not a “little” late. For those of you who have a regular job, imagine your pay being delayed that way. Now imagine that happening when you have to pay for motels for your regular lodging, restaurants for your regular every day meals, and so on. And when other people in similar circumstances that you have subcontracted with expect you to pay them when you haven’t been paid by the client.

    If they would hold their sigs until they are paid they wouldn’t have a problem.

    Not an option when the client is in some other location in a different state or a different part of the state. And definitely not an option when the state deadline to turn in the signatures or not get on the ballot comes due, which is usually when these problems are most apt to happen.

    This was one of those times. If we had not turned the signatures in until we got paid on the last turn in, Obama and Romney would have been the only presidential candidates on the Alabama ballot. We did a very last minute turn in. And the local parties did not have the money, they had to report the numbers to their national parties or presidential campaigns and then we had to wait on those to pay us.

    So, yes, it wouldn’t be a problem for us if we held the signatures until we got paid, but it would be a problem for the clients.

    Maybe that’s what we should have done in this case, since Virgil was happy to pay for signatures in a bunch of states where he failed to make the ballot and wants to nickel and dime us here even though he did make the ballot. Isn’t that the logical conclusion if he was prepared to pay for 8,000 signatures so as to insure that he made the ballot, but now wants to pay us for less even though he did? Clearly his overriding objective was that we should have just gotten signatures, regardless if they succeeded in getting him on the ballot or not. Or at least that’s what you would think based on how he is acting.

    So given that logic, we should indeed have held the signatures until we got paid, and let him fail to make the ballot like he did in other states.

    But generally speaking that’s not an option and not something we would do to a client. Even if they deserve it.

  24. Andy

    “Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day // Dec 11, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    The LP didn’t stiff anyone, just a little late !”

    Actually, I can cite examples of being stiffed on certain things, also, I’d call being late a form of being stiffed, especially if there is no interest/late fee included.

    Also, when you say a little late, it depends on how you define a little late. I’d say two weeks, maybe even 3 weeks, would be a little late. But what about 2 or 3 or 6 months late (all of which have happened)? I had 3 instances where I didn’t receive money that I was owed from the LP for about a year (yes, you read that right, a freaking YEAR). Is a year a “little bit” late? None of this was entered into voluntarily (as in I never agreed to have my pay delayed by a year).

    “If they would hold their sigs until they are paid they wouldn’t have a problem.”

    If this had been done in Alabama and some other states this year (like West Virginia), the Libertarian Party would not have made the ballot in those places.

  25. Andy

    “Isn’t that the logical conclusion if he was prepared to pay for 8,000 signatures so as to insure that he made the ballot, but now wants to pay us for less even though he did?”

    He hasn’t even paid us on the 831 signatures which are in dispute, even though they were reported by the Alabama Secretary of State’s office.

  26. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    Aren’t you guys even a little concerned by airing this publicly that they may not ever use your service in the future ? I mean you are telling it like it is and it AIN’t too sweet for these people in charge of paying you!

    BTW – THX 4 AL and WV !!!

    Bumper stickers 4 SALE
    My right to say it. Your choice to listen. – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=373

    My Patriot Act is the Bill of Rights. – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=376

  27. paulie

    Aren’t you guys even a little concerned by airing this publicly that they may not ever use your service in the future ?

    Why would I want to do work for clients that don’t pay their bills? Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

  28. Andy

    “Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day // Dec 11, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    Aren’t you guys even a little concerned by airing this publicly that they may not ever use your service in the future ? I mean you are telling it like it is and it AIN’t too sweet for these people in charge of paying you!”

    Actually, airing the non-payment in a public forum can have the effect of shaming them into paying us. Does any group really want to be known for ripping off the people who do work for them?

    Also, there’s an expression which is quite true and that is that good help is hard to find. It would be in their best interest to make sure that I get paid every penny that I’m owed if the chance to obtain my services in the future.

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