December 2012 Open Thread

Here’s our Open Thread for December. This is for anyone who has something to say about third parties and/or independents. For an idea of how it works, check out November Open Thread or October Open Thread . We know many of you have information or ideas you’d like to share.

Here is also a good place to let us know how you like some of the changes on the IPR site.

134 thoughts on “December 2012 Open Thread

  1. marzak

    Here in the back water of schenectady there was a story in the Gazette about a couple filming the handing out of leaflets at the Albany airport.The reporter said the story could be found on the Alex Jones show whos viewers are libertarians.The gazette mentioned libertarians maybe twice during the last election so this basically came out of the blue, or somewhere anyway.So like it or not the libertarian name will be dragged through the mud without doing anything .

  2. JQ2inTX

    I have a nephew who is a Libertarian in VA. He even ran for the House of Representatives 4 years ago. I don’t agree with him on all issues but he is quite popular in his Congressional District. He and I (Conservative) do agree that our country is going to hell in a handbasket.
    The Repulicrats or if you prefer Demolicans are taking us in very dangerous directions. Yet I see the independent movement as a bunch of splinter groups who consider others who are not like them to be enemies. If we who want to return this nation to what it once was, a Constitutional Republic, NOT A Democracy, then we had better find some common ground in one REALLY BIG HURRY! We have less than 2 years to have an chance on changing the direction of our nation. So I personally like the Constitution Party, but am willing to hear what others think. I do recycle, but I disagree with a great deal of the Green Party. I am a city council person for a VERY small town, and find that I dislike the idea of big gov’t telling my little town what it can and cannot do.
    So Conservatives, unite around one flag and lets kick som Demopublican butt.

  3. NewFederalist

    JQ2… I like your sentiment but libertarians are not conservatives (nor are they liberals). If your major concerns are economic issues then common ground should be easy to establish.

  4. Peter Gemma

    Jon Barrie, who ran for US Sen in NM under the Independent American Party label and scored 3.6% of the vote, has been appointed Vice Chair of the NM Constitution Party, as part of a re-organization plan. Barrie is expected to become Chair soon.

  5. NewFederalist

    Peter @ 5… and I see from emails that I have received from his campaign that he refers to himself as a “Constitutional Libertarian”. Perhaps it is the start of building a larger movement.

  6. JQ2inTX

    New Federalist – I also have issues with the idea that the Constitution is a “living” document that is to be changed to fit the times. I see a President who basically ignores the Constitution when it comes to doing what he wants to do. As I say I believe that we need to return this nation to the Constitutional Republic as it was originally intended. That means many things, not the least of which is getting our troops out of the idiotic entanglements that we find ourselves in with Europe, Asia and Africa. It is not our job to be the ones who support nations that our able to support themselves. I am in favor of removing our troops from Europe as soon as possible, stopping all foreign aid, and allowing the people of Syria to do what they will do to free themselves. We are arming our own enemies when we are sending arms and money that is spent the way these gov’ts want it spent, we are not really helping anyone any more. There are so many factions in the middle of all this mess that it behooves us to get out of the middle. Let them work out their own destiny.

    Japan does not need our military any longer they are more than capable of taking care of themselves and our money can better be spent at home anyway. If we stop sending aid to all these countries, and instead let that money rebuild bridges and roads here in this country, perhaps we will put people back to work and stop this stupid slide into bankruptcy.

    Sorry, let me get off my soapbox and yield the floor. I just get so angry at the stupidity I see in Washington, it gives me a roaring headache.

  7. JQ2inTX

    Peter this is a good thing, if we can begin to come together we will be able to bring greater presence to bear in the upcoming House elections in 2014. We need to replace these fawning politicians with people who actually care about our country and our Constitution.

  8. Richard Winger

    If the U.S. Constitution is to be interpreted according to the thinking of the people who ratified any particular part of the Constitution (including amendments) then the 14th amendment would not protect the ability of women to become attorneys. It would not protect anyone from mandatory state school segregation. It would not permit the U.S. Government to have an Air Force.

  9. JQ2inTX

    I would like to see a citation that makes this amendment even remotely involved in any of the statements you have made. The 14th Amendment has nothing to do with raising military, nor with whether or not a woman can be an attorney, nor does it say anything about state school segregation, which in reality exists today in all schools of “higher” learning. Entrance is no longer based on merit, but rather on color and gender and the current Attorney General makes sure that it is enforced.

  10. Andy

    “It would not permit the U.S. Government to have an Air Force.”

    The Air Force actually started out as a part of the Army.

  11. Pojunis resigns from LPNV State Committee

    George Phillies writes that he found on the Starchild reflector list:

    Pojunis says he is resigning because their state chair has threatened to resign if his offer is not accepted.

    > From: “Brett H. Pojunis”
    > Date: November 25, 2012 5:57:30 PM PST
    > To: LNC Discussion , LP-State Chairs
    > Subject: [Lnc-discuss] My Resignation from the LPNevada Executive Committee
    > Reply-To: lnc-discuss@…
    >
    > LNC and Statechairs,
    >
    > I would like to share with you my resignation letter from the LPNevada Executive Committee. This is a very hard decision for me to make and I am doing this because I want LPNevada to grow and succeed. Candidly, I am also sick of fighting.
    >
    > I have been informed there is going to be a vote to have me removed from the LPNevada Executive Committee tonight, this will be the 4th attempt to do so. I believe the votes are there, but no cause has been given. It has been expressed that the chair has given an ultimatum to the other 3 Executive Committee members that either he will quit or they vote me off. I could fight this on many different levels such as they are violating the bylaws and violating the procedures under Roberts Rules. However, I think it is more important that LPNevada moves forward so I am stepping down in the short term interest of the party.
    >
    > Please contact me should you have any questions. Thank you for your time!
    >
    >
    > Best,
    >
    > Brett H. Pojunis
    > Libertarian National Committee (LNC) – Region 4 Representative

    You can read the whole letter at

    groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/files/

    The Pojunis letter is near the bottom. The URL is more than a bit long.

  12. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    @1 There you go again! You people who keep shrinking the tent are “possibly” making it much more possible that we die in chains instead of breathing FREE the rest of our lives. People the DRONES are here now. The NDAA is LAW. And some are still NAIVE enough or dimwitted enough to disavow a planned NEW WORLD ORDER and are worried about being embarassed!

    “A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.” – Lysander Spooner

    Global Dominance Group: http://thedailybell.com/3232/Mickey-Huff-on-Project-Censored-the-Reality-of-World-Government-and-the-Masquerade-of-a-Free-Press

    Freedom International Newsfeed: – http://www.mediafreedominternational.org/

    “Free election of masters does not abolish the masters or the slaves.” – Herbert Marcuse

    “The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities.” – Zbigniew Brzezinski, Obama’s chief foreign policy advisor

    /\ In their OWN words \/

    The final minute roughly of this vid is scary stuff!
    Zbigniew Brzezinski on your future!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKzEpQc-yo8

    /\ In their OWN words \/

    “…This regionalization (sic?) is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of “one world government’….National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept…” – Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama’s chief foreign policy advisor

    It’s past time to put aside petty differences and stand strong together for LIBERTY! Expand the Liberty Tent, NOT shrink it yet again! The Fascists (unrestrained by traditional values ) are almost at your front door……….

  13. Peter Gemma

    @ 6 – Jon was a “fusion” candidate who ran with the official endorsement of the Libertarian Party and Constitution Party while he was on the ballot as the Independent American Party candidate. I don’t expect these parties to merge or even cooperate quite as much in the future, but I think the Barrie experience and some of the overlap on issue positions will give NM voters lots of good options. I can see, for instance, LP and CP dividing the races where their candidates will run – an LP for Gov and a CP for Sen etc. Cross-endorsing may happen more often too.

  14. just independent

    @0 re: ” for anyone who has something to say about third parties. ”

    Are we still allowed to talk about nonpartisan independent candidates and officeholders here on IndependentPoliticalReview.com?

  15. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    JI @ 16: Yes, in fact I’ll go in and amend my article to say “independents” as well.

  16. paulie

    Marzak

    Please stop listing a non-working URL as your website. Just leave the website line blank if you don’t have a website you want to list. The website line is optional, and links to non-working URLs are irksome. I am having to remove them manually every time, and that’s just a pain I don’t need.

  17. paulie

    The following conversation about that not yet on the reflector


    Voting should have concluded several days ago. We have already lost nearly two weeks of prime fundraising time in early December, when people are feeling generous.

    David E. Blau, Esq.


    Me, to Blau:

    According to a source who has been keeping close track of the public reflector

    Voting YES so far are LNC members Wiener, Neale, Visek,
    Vohra, Kirkland, Hagan, Lark, Mack, as well as LNC alternates David Blau, and Paulie Frankel.

    Voting NO so far are
    LNC members Olsen, Starchild, Hinkle, Bennett, as well as
    LNC alternates Lieberman and Goldstein. The Alternates’ No
    votes are overturned by their representatives. Voting ABSTAIN
    is R. Lee Wrights.

    So far can be taken out at this point since I believe the deadline has passed.

    If this count is correct your vote and mine counted since our reps did not vote. However Scott and Sam’s votes did not count because their reps did vote.

    So, again if this is all correct it is 10-4-1.

    Paulie


    Me to list:

    Additionally, if this count of the votes is correct, the people I have been discussing this with seem to think it passed. Is their analysis correct?

    Compare Bylaws 10.5 and 8.5.

    10.5 (which this is) says 2/3 vote, not 2/3 of entire committee. 8.5 says 2/3 of the entire committee.

    If the vote count and the analysis that it passed are both correct, per Dan Wiener’s analysis at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3213, Mark Hinkle’s motion would supersede if it also gets 2/3. Does anyone disagree?

    Paulie 415.690.6352


    http://www.lp.org/bylaws


    Dan Wiener:

    I know of at least one other vote which went directly to the Secretary rather than being posted on the LNC-Business list, which would make the tentative total 11-4-1. There could be other votes I don’t know about.

    If the above total, or something close to that, is correct, then the motion passed by the necessary two-thirds vote as required by the Bylaws.

    Daniel Wiener


    Starchild:

    Voting should always be sent to the list, not directly to the secretary. It’s difficult enough to keep track of this stuff when people are posting their votes publicly.

    Love & Liberty,
    ((( starchild )))
    At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee


    Me:

    Supporting evidence for this vote count (Caveat: this depends on whether Starchild missed any messages on the list when reflecting them; I have not attempted to go through and verify whether he got them all. Further caveat: I am relying on Phillies’ index of messages at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpusmisc to point me to the messages that contain the votes, and checking them at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic only for the ones that are identified as being votes; I am not trying to go through every messages in between those on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic to see whether there were any votes that were indexed as being anything else):

    Nays
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/2927 Lieberman (subsequently superseded).
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/2935 Starchild
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/2940 Goldstein (subsequently superseded).
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3020 Olsen
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3179 Hinkle
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3255 Bennett

    Yays
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/2942 Wiener
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/2945 Kirkland
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/2952 Blau (as far as I can tell this vote was not superseded)
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/2987 Neale
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3021 Frankel (as far as I can tell my vote was not superseded)
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3193 Visek
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3216 Vohra
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3225 Hagan
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3253 Lark
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3256 Mack

    Abstain
    Wrights http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/3224

    My preliminary research indicates my source is correct as to the vote count, although this does not take into account any vote(s) that went directly to the Secretary and not to the list.

    At this point at least two additional motions may be good to consider – 1) Mark Hinkle’s (presuming everything discussed here so far about how everyone voted and what the rules are is correct; and presuming Dan Wiener’s analysis that Mark Hinkle’s motion will supersede if it gets 2/3 is correct, which I believe it is). 2) Starchild’s ideas about which building functions we want in an office, Scott Lieberman’s question about Class A, B or C office space — these things could be rolled into one or more motions. Any other additional considerations that need to be addressed with motions?

    Paulie 415.690.6352


    Me:

    I would hope people would make their votes, and if possible their reasons, public before the vote count becomes public as well. Among other things, it would help prevent confusion and mistakes in vote counting.

    It is my understanding that currently there is no obligation to put a vote on the list, but this creates confusion and uncertainty.

    Paulie 415.690.6352

  18. Chuck Moulton

    Paulie wrote (@22):

    The following conversation about that not yet on the reflector

    Thanks for the compilation, Paulie!

    I’m pleased to see this apparently passed! Hopefully Hinkle’s motion will pass too.

  19. Steven Wilson

    I believe that Gary Johnson needs to make a declaration for running again in 2016. His leadership could help forecast money and help solidify new candidates.

    We could use him like Harry Browne in that fashion. Just an idea.

  20. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Re: 25, I’m speaking of the Canadian rock band Rush, of whom I’ve been a fan so long that I considered naming my ninteen-year old son “Geddy”.

  21. NewFederalist

    Peter @ 15… are you basically saying an “Alliance” between the LP and the CP? There was an “Alliance” in the UK between the Liberal Party and the Social Democratic Party in the 1980′s and into the 90′s which led to the merger of those two parties into the Liberal Democrats which is now part of the coalition government with the Conservative Party. Do you think the same thing is possible here?

  22. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt // Dec 11, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Re: 25, I’m speaking of the Canadian rock band Rush, of whom I’ve been a fan so long that I considered naming my ninteen-year old son ‘Geddy’”

    You may already know this, but his real name is not Geddy Lee, it’s Gary Lee Weinrib. His parents were Polish Jewish immigrants to Canada and his nickname Geddy game from his mother saying the name Gary with a Polish Jewish accent.

  23. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt // Dec 11, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Re: 25, I’m speaking of the Canadian rock band Rush, of whom I’ve been a fan so long that I considered naming my ninteen-year old son ‘Geddy.’”

    Since we are on the subject, here are a couple of songs.

    Rush: The Anarchist

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RpOz2dwewc

    Rush: Freewill

  24. Andy

    Hey, that’s weird that I’m seeing the actual video on the screen for Freewill. That’s the first time this ever happened with me posting a video link here. I don’t know why it didn’t happen with the other video link I posted, so I’ll post it again to see if the video pops up on the screen.

    Rush: The Anarchist

  25. GovNo

    Some good news, which vaguely concerns third parties because of their libertarian lyrics

    You are probably thinking of Neil Peart, he’s the one who writes the lyrics.

    I don’t know what Geddy Lee’s political views are, or if he has any.

  26. Andy

    “You are probably thinking of Neil Peart, he’s the one who writes the lyrics.”

    Yes, Neil Peart, their drummer, actually writes the majority of their lyrics. He has referred to himself as a libertarian in interviews, and some of his lyrics were inspired by Ayn Rand.

  27. paulie

    Wikipedia:

    Political views

    Peart has never publicly identified with any political party or organization in Canada or the United States. Even so, his political and philosophical views have often been analyzed through his work with Rush and through other sources. In October 1993 shortly before that year’s Canadian federal election, Peart appeared with then-Liberal Party leader Jean Chrétien in an interview broadcast in Canada on MuchMusic. In that interview Peart stated he was an undecided voter who supported Quebec federalism.[47]

    Peart is often categorized as an Objectivist and an admirer of Ayn Rand. This is largely based on his work with Rush in the 1970s, particularly the song “Anthem” and the album 2112, the latter specifically credited to “the genius of Ayn Rand.”[48] However, in his 1994 Rush Backstage Club Newsletter, while contending the “individual is paramount in matters of justice and liberty,” Peart specifically distanced himself from a strictly Objectivist line.[49] In a June 2012 Rolling Stone interview, when asked if Rand’s words still speak to him, Peart replied: “Oh, no. That was 40 years ago.”[50] Peart has also ascribed to a philosophy that he has called “Tryism”, which means that anything that one tries to attain will be attained if one tries hard enough.[51]

    Although Peart is sometimes regarded as a “conservative” and “Republican” rock star,[52] he, in 2005, described himself as a “left-leaning libertarian”,[53] and is often cited as a libertarian celebrity.[54][55] In July 2011 Peart reiterated those views, calling himself a bleeding-heart libertarian.[56]

  28. paulie

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geddy_Lee

    Geddy Lee was born Gary Lee Weinrib on July 29, 1953 in Willowdale, (North York) Toronto, Ontario, Canada to Morris and Mary Weinrib (née Manya Rubenstein).[1][9] Lee’s stage name, Geddy, was inspired by his mother’s heavily accented pronunciation of his given first name, Gary, and it later became his high school nickname before he adopted it as his stage name. In an interview written in Bass Frontiers Magazine, Geddy Lee explains; “My born name is Gary. My real name, now, is Geddy. Okay, it’s like the same story of Leave it to Beaver. (laughs). The story goes: my mother is Polish and she has a very thick accent. When I was about twelve years old, I had a friend who, whenever he heard my mother pronounce my name, he thought she was calling me, ‘Geddy’. He started calling me ‘Geddy’, and eventually, all of my friends started calling me ‘Geddy’, and eventually my mother started to call me ‘Geddy’, for real. And eventually, I changed my name legally to ‘Geddy’, so that’s the story and that’s my name, Geddy.”[10]

    Lee’s parents were Jewish refugees from Poland who had been survivors of Dachau and Bergen-Belsen concentration camps during World War II. In 2004, Jweekly featured Lee’s reflections on his mother’s experiences as a refugee, and of his own Jewish heritage.[9] In an interview with Rob Tannenbaum of Maxim, Lee described the two most Jewish things about him as “[M]y nose and my sense of humor. I’m kind of a Jewish atheist…

  29. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt // Dec 11, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    Good research, Andy and Paulie. I didn’t know about the name thing. Very cool–”

    Since we are on the subject, Neil Peart is the only one of the three that is known by his real name. Alex Lifeson’s real last name is not Lifeson, it is Zivojinovic. He was born in Canada but his parents were Serbian immigrants. I think that Zivojinovic means son of life or something like that in Serbian, which is how he came up with the stage name.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Lifeson

  30. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Funny, I posted a few comments about Rush on Facebook, and I’m amazed and delighted at how many of my Facebook friends are familiar with them and their lyrics. Some really young people are commenting. I find that heartening, since I thought they were kind of a niche band that only some people follow.

  31. Andy

    “And eventually, I changed my name legally to ‘Geddy’, so that’s the story and that’s my name, Geddy.”

    I hadn’t heard that he legally changed his name to Geddy. I don’t know when this happened, because I remember hearing years ago that his real name was Gary Lee Weinrib.

    That’s like Jesse Ventura who ended up having his name legally changed to Jesse Ventura from his original given name of George Janos.

  32. Scott West

    Justice Party delays convention from February to November 2013.

    Received at 8:50 AM from

    FEBRUARY ONLINE EVENT — OCTOBER CONVENTION

    Friend,

    Much to our chagrin, the National Steering Committee (NSC) has decided to postpone the National Convention until October or early November 2013. We have found that it is financially impossible to hold it in February, given the need for a very large immediate down payment to hold the venue (some $15,000 for the Seattle location, which was the least expensive). Fortunately, this delay will give us the time to build up our membership, infrastructure, and state parties, as well as our financial resources.

    We will proceed with an online videoconference event on Saturday, February 16 to approve the Justice Party Vision, Mission, and Core Values statements. We shall first present these to the membership for discussion. (Become an official Justice Party member here.) These statements will constitute the political basis of the Justice Party. Work on the draft platform and bylaws will continue, for adoption at the autumn convention. Stay tuned for the details.

    We are planning an immediate expansion of the National Steering Committee (NSC) to include more grassroots leaders and organizers to ensure the national leadership team reflects the Justice Party community in its entirety. Elections of the two Justice Party Co-Chairpersons, a Secretary, a Treasurer, and of a new National Steering Committee are still scheduled to occur at the convention.

    In closing, we are saddened that we could not proceed with the convention as planned, but we look at this as an opportunity to get better organized so we are prepared for exponential growth.

    Happy Holidays,

    Jonathan Ruga, Laura Bonham, Dave Jette, Sally Soriano, Linda Boyd, Lenny Brody, Michael McGee, Cynthia Papermaster

  33. paulie

    Thanks for the heads up, I’ll try to put it up as a story if no one else does.

    Anyone know how to set up an email address that auto-forwards everything sent to it to a list of email addresses? We used to have that but it stopped working.

  34. William Saturn

    I’m glad to see that there’s a new free speech policy in effect here. KKK members are able to speak their minds as are angry petitioners and their antagonists. The next logical step is to unblock Milnes to continue the free flow of thought. Supporting that, in the Goode thread, Mr. Andy makes some good points about readers not having to view every post. Of course, automated spam is annoying and should still be removed. Unfortunately, that is often what Ogle posts, so I will express no opinion on his ban, though I’d prefer to see him be allowed to comment if he agrees to not copy and paste statistics and/or comments repeated elsewhere.

  35. NewFederalist

    I never knew there was any restrictions on free speech on this site. The only people I ever knew of that were banned were people who hijacked threads and kept posting the same thing over and over despite what the thread topic might be. After repeated warnings they were banned. I never saw any comments from the far right or the far left censored unless they contained obviously vicious, libelous or utterly salacious content. I am not sure what you meant at post # 45.

  36. Thane Eichenauer

    I remember when Robert Milnes was permitted to post comments here at IPR. I have no desire to return to such a time.

    I remember when Jim Ogle was permitted to post comments here at IPR. I have no desire to return to such a time.

    Either of them is welcome to advance their own particular political campaign which in the past inspired writers here at IPR to post articles about their campaigns.

    American Third Position supporters have posted comments that I don’t agree with but at least their comments are unique to the post in question. I’d rather not read their comments. Luckily pressing my page down button addresses that problem.

    As for Andy Jacobs and his complaints about past customers who haven’t paid their bills, if anybody find his complaints to be bothersome I imagine somebody could pay Andy Jacobs to stop complaining. Until his past customer or someone else chooses to clear the past due debt his comments about customers with outstanding debts seem to be very relevant to the threads in question.

  37. William Saturn

    Looking back at comments that have been left through the years, I’ve drawn a few conclusions:

    Ogle’s posts are usually boring.

    Milnes’ posts are usually entertaining.

    But by far, the most hilarious posts I’ve ever read on this site come from Concerned Chuck and Hetro Harry (I hope that someday he returns or is unbanned, whatever his case may be) .

    They are all part of the unique culture that has formed here.

    Of course, for informational purposes, I prefer reading the substantive and relevant comments left here by Mr. Eichenauer, NewFederalist, paulie, trent, Mr. Winger, Mr. Knapp, Mr. Richardson, Mr. Young, Ms. Pyeatt, CatholicTrotskist and countless others. However, hilarious, entertaining, and even boring posts do not detract nor are exclusively irrelevant from the substantive comments. Though they may at times be pointless trash, sometimes they can be a source for our identity: we can reference back to them when making a point; we can use them to look at and think of things from a new perspective; and as is said, ironically, the absurd can bring us closer to truth.

    If individuals like Mr. Eichenauer and others do not wish to see such posts, then it is their prerogative, as Thane suggests above, to simply scroll down and/or ignore the posts in their comments.

    In my opinion, the IPR culture and free flow of thought should be allowed to flourish in the comments section on this site.

  38. Thane Eichenauer

    If Mr. Ogle or Mr. Milnes could produce a notarized certificate of completion from the Institute for Catholic Trotskyism I would welcome them back.

    Said certificate would require an pass/fail graded essay on the topic of how to write a relevant and/or interesting comment on an internet post.

  39. Andy

    Thane Eichenauer said: “As for Andy Jacobs and his complaints about past customers who haven’t paid their bills, if anybody find his complaints to be bothersome I imagine somebody could pay Andy Jacobs to stop complaining. Until his past customer or someone else chooses to clear the past due debt his comments about customers with outstanding debts seem to be very relevant to the threads in question.”

    BINGO!

  40. just independent

    The Preisdential election is today. Any guesses as to whether Rep. Paul or Gov. Johnson will get any votes?

  41. Mark Axinn

    paulie @50.

    Great title in the link you posted.

    I think some of those dead people are the same ones who voted for Kennedy from Chicago!

  42. paulie

    For anyone who has not read the link, not only are dead people “liking” crap on facebook (generally corporations that pay for ad campaigns) but living people who have out of character “likes” have denied making them.

  43. George Phillies

    It appears to me that the latest massacre will once again promote efforts to launch new gun controls, amend the Constitution, etc. The Democratic Party had been, it appeared to me, on its way to stomping the Republicans into the pavement, for a few decades, but now they are perhaps instead experimenting with an old way to turn that direction around.

    It would be really great if for change the murderers were captured alive so that systematic medical and psychiatric analysis might be undertaken.

  44. FLAMETHROWING LIBERTARIAN !

    @57 He was NUTS, any more questions???

    Free & Equal Announces Arkansas State Caucus Leaders
    With a national press release …., Free & Equal officially announced the formation of a grassroots watchdog group committed to keeping an eye on and making the electoral process in Arkansas Free & Equal. The Arkansas group is comprised of a diverse group of individuals all committed to making the electoral process in Arkansas free of any bias that might inhibit third party, or independent candidates from participating in the electoral process.
    David Chiodo – Founder of End The Fed Arkansas
    Deborah Standiford – Chair of the Pulaski County Libertarian Party
    Mark Daniels- Founder of Global Political Awakening
    Greg Deckelman – Media and public relations team member for Occupy Little Rock
    Dugan King – Former investment banker (introduced the “Fair Tax Plan” and drafted the ArBuck plan)
    Jessica Paxton – Media director and ballot access petition organizer for the Libertarian Party of Arkansas, and former Libertarian Congressional candidate
    This is truly a grassroots effort open to everyone and all are invited to participate. You can find out more about state leadership on the Free & Equal website.
    If you want to be part of an existing state group or apply to start your own state group, go to the volunteer page and send us your information.

  45. George Phillies

    @59 The medical and biochemical evidence is actually a bit thin on the ground to validate your claim, not to mention that most people with the reported conditions very certainly do not behave this way, leading to the reasonable assumption that the diagnosis to the extent there was one was imprecise. For example, a second rare condition hard to distinguish from other more common conditions, the rare condition leading to this sort of violence. The point of identifying the condition is that you might be able to treat it in advance.

  46. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    GP @ 57: It’s just beyond me that someone with no history of violence would snap and kill 20 beautiful children he doesn”t even know. A person that mentally ill wouldn’t have the capability of such a successful episode. Was he on drugs for mental illeness? Maybe the combination of both caused it, but the whole thing is just beyond awful. I doubt if we’ll ever know what really caused it.

  47. FLAMETHROWING LIBERTARIAN !

    Was 2012 the Best Year Ever for our Libertarian Party Candidates?
    The Message Below – Now Updated – Was Emailed to You 7 days ago, BUT our Website Secure Server Crashed – and You were deprived of the opportunity to be involved in this Historic Libertarian Offer.

    Would you please take just 6 minutes to look this over?

    Dear Fellow Libertarian,

    Was 2012 the Best Year Ever for our Libertarian Party Candidates?

    The numbers say “Yes!” What do you say?

    1,272,105 Votes for Gov. Gary Johnson.

    2012 Libertarian Presidential Candidate Sets a New LP Record for Highest-Ever Vote

    Gary Johnson Shattered Ed Clark’s 1980 Vote Record of 921,128 Votes for President of the United States.
    2012 Libertarian Presidential Ticket of Gov. Gary Johnson and Judge Jim Gray More Than DOUBLED the 2008 Vote Total of Bob Barr and Wayne Root.
    They More Than TRIPLED the 2004 Libertarian Presidential Vote Total of Michael Badnarik and Richard Campagna.
    Item: Republicans Blame Libertarian U.S. Senate Candidates Andrew Horning and Dan Cox for Republican U.S. Senate Losses in Indiana and Montana. Each Libertarian Candidate received more votes than the Republican candidates lost by.

    Item: Republicans Blame Libertarian U.S. Congressional Candidate Dan Fishman for Republican Loss in Massachusetts.

    Item: 2012 Libertarian Votes Give LP Ballot Access in 30 States + the District of Columbia. Saves LP over $400,000 in 2016 Petitioning Costs.

    Item: 7 Libertarian Candidates Each Get Over One Million Votes
    Gov. Gary Johnson for President: 1,272,105 votes
    Mark W. Bennett (TX) Court of Criminal Appeals: 1,326,526 votes
    William Bryan Strange (TX) Court of Criminal Appeals: 1,313,746 votes
    RS Roberto Koelsch (TX) Texas Supreme Court: 1,280,886 votes
    Jaime O. Perez (TX) Railroad Commissioner: 1,122,792 votes
    David Staples (GA) Public Service Commission, District 5: 1,082,481 votes
    Tom Oxford (TX) Texas Supreme Court: 1,030,735 votes
    Question: Why are these Libertarian Party campaign results even more spectacular than they look?

    Because an overwhelming onslaught of Money and Media were unleashed against us.

    Money Fact: Republicans and Democrats Spent $2 Billion on the Presidential Campaigns of Barack Obama and Mitt Romney.

    Libertarians raised and spent $3 Million for the Presidential Campaign of Gov. Gary Johnson.

    Romney and Obama Outspent Gary Johnson 667 to 1.

    Media Fact: News Media Showered both the Mitt Romney and Barack Obama Campaigns With More Than 1,000 Times the News Coverage that they Devoted to Gov. Gary Johnson and his Libertarian Presidential Campaign.

    With these facts in mind, aren’t our 2012 Libertarian Party Election Results even more amazing?

    Adding to our Libertarian Party progress, voters across the country voted overwhelming in a libertarian direction on ballot initiatives – on taxes, on the ending the insane Marijuana Prohibition, and more.

    America is more receptive to Libertarian ideas than ever before.

    Would you like to take advantage of this 2012 campaign momentum NOW? To use it, magnify it, amplify it, multiply it – to recruit, educate, and activate tens of thousands of new members of the Libertarian Party – starting NOW?

    If we begin now, you and I can turn this 2012 momentum into a “snowball effect” for the next four years – and set in motion a freedom avalanche in 2016. A Libertarian Party Too Big to Ignore, Too Big to Exclude.

    What We Can and Must Do Now

    To amplify and magnify the effect of more members and more money, we must provide our Libertarian Party activists and candidates with the right Tools and Training and Coaching to do the job.

    ‘Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, feed him for a lifetime.’ – Proverb

    We want to teach our Libertarian Party candidates and campaign workers ‘how to fish,’ so they can run great LP campaigns time after time, year after year. And so that they can teach other LP candidates ‘how to fish.’

    Candidate Training from Experienced, Skilled Libertarian Party Experts.

    Campaign Training from Proven, Seasoned Libertarian Party Campaign Experts. Libertarian Party campaigns face radically different obstacles and challenges than Republican and Democratic campaigns. We need guidance from those who have successfully navigated them.

    Libertarian Solutions, Not Just Positions. Running for office is like interviewing for a job. What will the candidate DO if she is elected? Our LP candidates need to offer simple, credible libertarian solutions to high taxes, high spending, and Big Government programs and policies – and show voters the huge, immediate, direct benefits to them and their neighbors. This is a master key to being taken seriously.

    Fundraising Training. By the most successful, most effective LP fundraisers.

    How to Recruit, Train, Motivate, and Nurture Dozens of Volunteers for Your Libertarian Party Campaign. Whether it’s a statewide or local campaign, volunteers make the difference.

    Door-to-Door Campaigning. A Libertarian Party candidate can be elected with less than 1,000 votes in over 30,000 elective offices in the United States.

    One-Time Seminars, One-Time Training is NOT enough to make sure our candidates regularly, repeatedly do what they learned. They need practice, practice, practice. We can create online, internet tele-trainings – that our candidates can work with any hour of the day or night.

    Will you help us teach LP candidates ‘how to fish’? Will you help us provide the tools and training now for our 2014 and 2016 LP candidates? Will you help us coach our LP candidates to keep practicing their ‘fishing skills’?

    580 Libertarian Party Candidates ran for office this year. But, if you help now, in 2014 and 2016 we can run over 1,000. And, if you help now, they will be better-funded, better-trained, better-equipped – and together we can elect more and more Libertarians to office.

    We need you. Help us help you get the Libertarian Party elections results in 2014 and 2016 that you got a glimpse of this year.

    If you can donate $5,000 or $2,500 now, will you please do it now?

    If you can give $1,500 or $1,000, or $850 or $500 to this high-leverage, high-payoff project, will you please do it now?

    If you can give $240 or $150, $75 or $50, you will make a huge difference. Whatever you can afford, it helps. Will you please?

    Please either click and donate now http://www.LP.org/contribute or mail your donation to the address below with “I’m on board” in the memo.

    Carla Howell, Executive Director

    Libertarian Party

    P.S. Don’t let this 2012 Libertarian campaign momentum run down, or grand to a halt. Help us harness it and use it to build the Libertarian Party. To recruit, educate, activate tens of thousands of new LP members. To help us provide the LP Tools and Training needed to make more and more Libertarian breakthroughs in 2014 and 2016. Please make your most generous donation of $250 or $150 or $85 today. You’ll love the results.

    —————————————–

    Paid for by the Libertarian National Committee
    2600 Virginia Ave, N.W. Suite 200, Washington D.C. 20037
    Content not authorized by any candidate or candidate committee.

  48. NewFederalist

    “It would be really great if for change the murderers were captured alive so that systematic medical and psychiatric analysis might be undertaken.”

    Yes, George, it would. When the murderer saves the last round for himself that is a tough thing to do.

  49. Starchild

    Paulie @50 and @56 – I suspect the problem may be related to people authorizing external sites to access their Facebook accounts in order to gain posting privileges on those sites. I’ve seen some very suspicious wording in some of the terms that they want you to agree to when granting such access, including, iirc, specifically letting other sites “like” stuff for you. If I notice such terms in the future and remember, I’ll try to post them here.

    When I find a site that requires people to post via Facebook or some other off-site profile, I will often send them a message objecting to the practice and asking them to create their own registration form specific to their site (or better yet, letting people comment without registering at all). Giving a lot of different sites access to your profiles on other sites is asking for trouble.

  50. NewFederalist

    This question has already been asked over at Ballot Access News but… has anyone heard any rumors or mutterings or anything that might indicate a “faithless elector” or two? I would like to be sure to watch the joint session if there is likely to be some fun when the Electoral College votes are tabulated.

  51. LNC Again Attacks its OR Affiliate

    Showing that not much progress was made in 2012, the LNC web page LP.org is advertising a state convention of the Oregon Reeves faction:

    http://www.lp.org/event/libertarian-party-of-oregon-2013-state-convention

    That’s an expenditure of party funds, thus a decision of the LNC, that goes contrary to the definitive finding of its own Judicial Committee. Perhaps the membership needs another appeal to the Judicial Committee.

    ,,,George Phillies

  52. FLAMETHROWING LIBERTARIAN !

    Hope and Possibility for Liberty – A Christmas Message to You

    Dear Fellow Libertarian,

    We are fast approaching Christmas and New Year’s Day. Days of hope and possibility. Days of thanks and new beginnings.

    This is a time of love and good cheer. Of gratitude and giving.

    Thank you for your commitment to liberty. Thank you for the many things you have done to advance the cause of liberty and small government.

    Who you are and what you do fans the flames of freedom. Your support gives oxygen and fuel to the torch of liberty.

    For the last 12 years, Big Government politicians have radically increased government spending, taxing, and borrowing. Republican and Democratic politicians have slashed and burned our liberties and our livelihoods.

    But in 2012, in this darkness, our Libertarian Party candidates re-ignited America’s torch of liberty. We gave new heat and light for the America we could have and should have: a Libertarian America.

    2012 was NOT the high point for liberty and the Libertarian Party.

    2012 was a glimmer and a glimpse of what is possible for us: a New Dawn for freedom in America.

    “Freedom is not a fluke,” said Gary Johnson. “It’s the future.”

    We face choices and chances.

    If you and I and our fellow Libertarians make the right choices, we can increase our chances.

    Inaction is the wrong choice. Inaction gives aid and comfort to the opponents of freedom in America. Inaction paves the path to Big Government.

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” wrote Edmund Burke.

    Action is the right choice. Intelligent, rational action.

    Small government is the right chance. The right path to liberty.

    The only way to expand liberty is to shrink government. The only way to restore liberty is make government small.

    Our 2012 Libertarian Party campaigns – and our results – prove that there is a huge untapped demand for individual liberty and small government.

    But our 2012 Libertarian Party campaigns were just a taste of what’s to come for liberty…IF we embrace the hope and possibility of the Christmas Season.

    It’s a season to celebrate and cherish – and give the gift of liberty.

    Will you give a gift to the Libertarian Party – so we can give the gift of liberty to your family and friends and co-workers?

    Why give a Christmas Gift donation to the Libertarian Party?

    When you donate to the Libertarian Party, we give liberty to everyone you love.

    The Libertarian Party exposes and informs more Americans each year on the nature and value of liberty than all other libertarian organizations combined!

    Each Presidential Election Year, our LP candidates may well attract and enroll more new people into the libertarian movement than all other libertarian organizations do in a decade.

    Week after week, year after year, the Libertarian Party advertises and publicizes the libertarian alternative on key issues in the news. We offer libertarian solutions to America’s social and economic problems.

    We give hope to the discouraged – and possibility to those who haven’t seen the way out: liberty!

    Isn’t liberty the gift you want to give?

    The Libertarian Party isn’t a fad, isn’t a fluke: it’s the future.

    Would you take a moment right now and affirm your love of liberty, your hope for liberty, your desire for liberty in your lifetime?

    If 2012 has been a good year for you, if you’ve made your own “good fortune” through your thought and judgment and efforts, would you please donate $10,000 or $5,000 or $2,500 now ( https://www.lp.org/contribute?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Libertarian+Party&utm_content=christmas+message ), as your generous Christmas gift donation?

    If “It’s a Wonderful Life” for you and your family, if you are moved and inspired, will you please donate $1,500 or $850 now – in this Season of Giving?

    Will you be the “Miracle on 34th Street” for the Libertarian Party? Will you please contribute $250 or $500 today?

    Will you help the Libertarian Party “Make a Miracle” for liberty?

    Please give the gift of hope and possibility today. Please click and donate now (https://www.lp.org/contribute?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Libertarian+Party&utm_content=christmas+message ) or mail your donation to the address below with “A Christmas Gift for Liberty” in the memo.

    Thank you.

    Live and let live, Give and Let Give.

    Yours in liberty,

    Carla Howell, Executive Director

    Libertarian Party

    P.S. We only have..(a few) days left until Christmas, only…days to put your gift “under the tree.” Your Christmas gift donation to the Libertarian Party lets us share the gift of liberty with hundreds of thousands of Americans. Will you please help us share the blessings of liberty with your donation of $250 or $150 today? Thank you. And may your Christmas and New Year’s be filled with joy and love.
    ( https://www.lp.org/contribute?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Libertarian+Party&utm_content=christmas+message

    * ^ * ^ * ^

    Libertarian Party: Halt the Massacre of Innocent Children by Ending Prohibition on Self-Defense in Schools

    Families throughout the nation mourn the horrific deaths of 26 people, including 20 young children, killed Friday during a Newtown, Conn., mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

    “It’s impossible to imagine the depths of despair and grief that the victims’ families are experiencing right now,” said Geoffrey J. Neale, Chair of the Libertarian National Committee. “Our hearts go out to every one of them.”

    In the immediate aftermath of news surrounding the shootings, pundits and politicians called for new restrictions on firearm ownership, exactly the opposite of the approach needed to combat tragic gun violence in schools.

    “We’ve created a ‘gun-free zone,’ a killing zone, for the sickest criminals on the face of the Earth,” said R. Lee Wrights, vice-chair of the Libertarian Party. “We’ve given them an open killing field, and we’ve made the children of this country the victims.”

    Wrights pointed out that merely the knowledge that armed people will be present acts as a deterrent for would-be shooters.

    “They’re not going to walk into a police station, and why not? Because that’s where the guns are,” he said.

    The Federal Gun Free Schools Zone Act prohibits carrying firearms on school grounds in most cases, effectively criminalizing the right to self-defense in places filled with the most vulnerable citizens. Without that federal prohibition, adults working at the school would have been free to defend themselves, very possibly saving the lives of many of the young children and adults who were slain in this horrific tragedy.

    “We must stop blinding ourselves to the obvious: Most of these mass killings are happening at schools where self-defense is prohibited,” said Carla Howell, executive director of the Libertarian Party. “Gun prohibition sets the stage for the slaughter of innocent children. We must repeal these anti-self-defense laws now to minimize the likelihood they will occur in the future and to the limit the damage done when they do.”

    Responsible gun owners can and do prevent mass shootings from occurring and escalating.

    A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school’s vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
    A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
    A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
    A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
    A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
    A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
    A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
    At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon.

    For several years after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, gun prohibitionists blocked pilots from carrying firearms. But after it became undeniable that guns are an essential line of defense against hijackers and other terrorists when the lives of innocent passengers are at stake, Congress finally passed legislation allowing it.

    It’s time to take the same approach with teachers, school administrators, and security guards, who should be allowed to carry the tools necessary to protect the students in their care. It’s time to put an end to gun-free zones and make it much easier for responsible adults to arm, train, and protect themselves and the people they love from the violent criminals who seek to harm them.

    “You can’t depend on somebody else to take care of your own life for you,” Wrights said. “It’s too precious to put it into the hands of somebody else, particularly when the seconds count.”

    The Libertarian Party Platform on Self-Defense states: “The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.”

    ###

    P.S. If you have not already done so, please join the Libertarian Party http://WWW.LP.ORG . We are the only political party with a mission to give voters a choice to downsize Big Government, to do so in the most humane way possible, to greatly reduce taxes, and to slash high government spending. You can also renew your membership. Or, you can simply make a contribution http://www.lp.org/contribute .

    ———————————————

    Paid for by the Libertarian National Committee
    2600 Virginia Ave, N.W. Suite 200, Washington D.C. 20037
    Content not authorized by any candidate or candidate committee.

  53. So?

    has anyone heard any rumors or mutterings or anything that might indicate a “faithless elector” or two?

    Yes, I’ve heard that Paul or Johnson may get a few votes. We shall see.

  54. So?

    Make Newtown the last town

    posted by Staff on Dec 18, 2012

    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
    – James Madison

    by R. Lee Wrights, Vice Chair, National Libertarian Party

    Beware the person who says to you, “You don’t need a gun.” That kind of person will get you killed. Nothing proves this more than the terrible event of Friday last at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown Connecticut. Children and adults alike had their lives tragically cut short by a shooter in a gun-free zone. While it is appropriate to properly mourn those who have, once again, fallen victim to senseless violence, it is imperative that we act to ensure a tragedy such as this is never repeated.

    My own sadness quickly turns to anger as the realization sets in that this is actually a problem we can do something about. We can stop this madness tomorrow. When will America learn? How many innocent children must die before we admit the madness of gun-free killing fields populated by our precious sons and daughters? Why are we not doing everything we can to protect our children? We obviously need more guns in the gun-free zones!

    I can’t believe we put armed guards in armored vehicles to safeguard and transport our money; however, we put our children on buses with no seatbelts and take them to schools where only video cameras and defenseless adults guard them. We plaster big bright signs proclaiming every school a Gun Free Zone, strategically place video surveillance equipment everywhere, and then pretend we have done all we can do to protect our precious children.

    Government has created these killing fields and conveniently labeled them “gun-free zones.” It all began in 1990 when the Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) was enacted as section 1702 of the Crime Control Act of 1990. Oddly enough the GFSZA was subsequently declared to be an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution by the United States Supreme Court, and was therefore voided.

    Chalk on up for the good guys, right? Not so fast. You see the case, United States v. Lopez (1995), was the first time in over half a century that the Supreme Court limited Congressional authority to legislate under the Commerce Clause.

    Following the Lopez decision, Congress made minor changes requiring that the firearm in question “has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce,” and reenacted the law with President Bill Clinton’s signature. As nearly all firearms have moved in Interstate Commerce at some point in their lives, this was merely a legislative tactic to circumvent the Supreme Court’s ruling. Although the amended GFSZA has yet to be challenged in the United States Supreme Court, it has been reviewed and upheld by several United States Circuit Courts.

    A law has been ruled unconstitutional and voided, yet reworked by Congress it somehow has been fixed and implemented anyway? And, it is yet to be challenged? Why? Where is the National Rifle Association on this? How about my favorite Gun Owners of America? Speak up Second Amendment Foundation and Citizen’s Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms! I urge all these organizations to join the Libertarian Party and myself in calling for an end to gun-free zones. Help us honor the innocent victims of Sandy Hook by memorializing them as the last time a thing like this ever happens.

    Gun control allowed this to happen. More gun control is not going to fix it. Gun control laws tell the criminals right where to go to make their crime as spectacular as possible. Criminals are smart enough to know better than to walk into a gun show and start shooting. These “sick” individuals are not so sick as to walk into a police station and just start shooting either. They go where the victims have been herded together for them and left virtually unprotected. Sadly, they just go to school.

    Children are dying! Gun control only gives sick people a place to go to kill people where they know no one will stop them. Newtown proves having no weapons is fatal! Take down all gun-free zone signs, arm the teachers and administrators, and train them to save young lives. We have to give our teachers and children a fighting chance.

    You never hear about an Israeli school being shot up by some madman. Why? Because it never happens, that’s why! The teachers and administrators are armed and train to protect their young charges. Whatever happened to the wise old adage, “Better safe than sorry”? Our children certainly deserve at least the same amount of protection we give our money, don’t they?

    Let’s honor the young victims of Sandy Hook Elementary. Let’s memorialize them by making them known as the last victims of a failed attempt by government to protect our most valuable resource… our children. Stop pretending you are protecting our children by putting up more signs and cameras. Bring back the Second Amendment thereby allowing responsible people to defend themselves and our children unimpeded by government interference. May Newtown Connecticut be forever known as the last town where children died in a gun-free zone.

    “After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn’t do it.”

    - William S. Burroughs

    Join the party working to defend your rights: the Libertarian Party

  55. JQ2inTX

    It seems to me that short of starting a new court case, which will be very expensive and go on for years before it gets to the Obama Supreme Court where it will be decided for the gun grabbers, we need to begin to work locally. Get the local school boards to see how they can protect the children.

    My thought on this is to ask for volunteers among those who have concealed carry permits, retired cops, and security people from the military. These folks could take a day or 2 a week to be at the local schools. They would be armed, when the school is on lockdown, as the Newtown school was, then there will be armed guards on duty to be sure that this kind of mass murder does not happen. This guy shot out a window and climbed into the school, bypassing the secured door, no one knew he was in the building until it was too late.

    If we put bullet proof glass on our windows (very expensive) that would help to stop what happened here, but better yet would be the cost effective way to protect our schools. The only cost would be a background check on those who volunteer. If they are clean, (Concealed Carry goes through this in order to get licensed) then take them and use them. If someone is then foolish enough to break in to a school, they pay the price, and our kids are safe.

  56. Catholic Trotskyist

    Hello my friends, the peace-loving people of IPR. I appreciate the love and remembrance for me in this thread, and apologize that I have been absent here lately. The Catholic Trotskyist Party is continuing its mission but is planning on some reforms next year, including a possible name change. I have been busy with real life and other necessary Internet activities, which I may reveal at a later time.
    Congratulations to Warren Redlich on taking control of this site. God bless the Pope and God bless Barack Obama. Bring back Milnes and Ogle; complete freedom of speech on IPR. Have a blessed Advent and Christmas season.

  57. Scott West

    Cindy Sheehan interviewed by the Washington Times today, talks a bit about the 2012 Peace & Freedom campaign, says she’s writing a book about it.

    Cotto: This year, you ran for vice president as the nominee of the Peace and Freedom Party. Running for national office is an undertaking so massive that few of us can fully comprehend it. What did you learn from your candidacy? Overall, was it a positive experience?

    Sheehan: I didn’t learn much from this campaign. I learned a lot when I ran against Pelosi for Congress in 2008, though, and the biggest thing I learned was that the system is stacked against the 99 percent and the voice of the working-class is almost totally silenced.

    My experience in 2012 running for VP was not really positive, but I am writing a book about it right now and don’t want to give away too much.

    Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/conscience-realist/2012/dec/20/cindy-sheehan-war-peace-social-justice-and-life-ac/

  58. Kevin Brook

    Thanks to everyone who has had Newtown in their thoughts.

    I live two towns away from Newtown and my father works there, and I was one of (at least) 4 Libertarian petitioners who gathered signatures within Newtown this year. I petitioned on two separate days there in July, mostly outside the Cyrenius Booth Library, and met a lot of great people who eagerly signed. The other petitioners got signatures at Edmond Town Hall and at a referendum.

    Residents from the Sandy Hook district were particularly proud of their neighborhood and wrote “S.H.” to represent it even though they weren’t required to (we wrote “Newtown” on the top of their sheets).

    I didn’t imagine Sandy Hook would become the site of a nationwide story of horror. Fortunately, none of the people who signed my petition sheets died in the event nor were their surnames the same as the victims’. Still, I assume they knew some of the victims.

    The school principal who was shot was the wife of a former teacher of mine.

  59. NewFederalist

    I have a great idea! Let’s bury all the acrimonious chatter for a day or so to give real meaning to the season. Merry Christmas everyone!

  60. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Merry Christmas to all of you who celebrate Christmas, and if you don’t, I hope you’re enjoying a nice, quiet day off work!

  61. FLAMETHROWING LIBERTARIAN !

    Happy Holidays from the Free & Equal family!
    During this time of goodwill and merriment it is important to know that there is good news abroad in the land – news of peace and freedom for all.

    Thank you to all our Supporters – 2012 has been a tremendous Year:
    Free & Equal, hosted an open presidential debate moderated by Larry King of OraTV in Chicago, and another debate followed on the eve of the election.
    Our debates were a top 10 trending subject on Twitter.
    The open discussion touched the youth who stood up to be counted and make a difference in politics.
    Other media outlets stood up and paid attention: C-SPAN, MSNBC, Al Jazeera, YouTube, CNN Radio, LA Times, Washington Post and RT America.
    A national audience of over 20 million heard candidates talk about the erosion of our precious civil liberties, a foreign policy that breeds war, taxation, monetary policy and the Federal Reserve and more.
    The news from Free & Equal is all good – and getting better. Here are our plans for 2013:
    The Journey of 1000 Miles Starts with a 10 City Bus Tour
    In February of 2013 we’re going to take Free & Equal on the road with a 10-city university bus tour with these speakers and musicians being considered: Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Jesse Ventura, and Ralph Nader, Adam Levine of Maroon 5, Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins and many more. The tour will be a powerful way to get our greatest resource —young people— engaged and acting now for free and open elections.

    Free & Equal Honest Media News Network
    The Free & Equal Foundation is putting together the Honest News Network, a Los Angeles-based studio which fosters open discussion on a range of issues from electoral reform, to foreign and domestic policy, the war on drugs and more.

    National Elections Database
    Free & Equal’s elections database will include information on every candidate, including voting history, associated private interest groups, and more. The Free & Equal database will effectively revolutionize the way candidates and private interest groups are examined and will help make activist’s voter education efforts tremendously effective.

    Free & Equal’s New Year’s Resolution Never Changes
    Every year we resolve to work for free and open elections, political choice and the power of the individual voter. Every year we make great strides towards our goal to break the stranglehold of the two-party system. Every year is better than the last. 2013 will continue that tradition and be a powerful year for supporters of free and equal elections. We are the MOVEMENT! With help by social media and of the voting youth becoming involved, everyone will be reached and heard!

    More Voices, More Choices

    Please support us in our 2013 objectives. Please click HERE http://freeandequal.org/donate/ to donate now! We’re a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization so your contributions are completely tax deductible.

    Forward to a Friend
    Copyright © 2012 Free and Equal, All rights reserved.

    Our mailing address is:

    Free and Equal
    1608 S. Ashland Ave #86386
    Chicago, IL 60608

    *ALL Alternative Party enthusiasts should consider helping this group !

  62. Oranje Mike

    Digging the Bad Santa clips. It’s part of my regular Christmas viewing along with Gremlins. The dvd collection is currently stashed away in a box while I deal with some things so I was unable to view either this holiday season.

  63. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I bought a new copy of this silly movie this year and haven’t watched it yet. I only bought “Bad Santa” however, since I couldn’t find “Badder Santa” without paying more than I wanted to. I can’t imagine it will be much tamer, though. The chubby little boy is just too darn hilarious and so darn sweet. And Billy Bob Thornton–well, if you haven’t watched it, you should!

  64. Oranje Mike

    @101

    The difference is so minute I didn’t know the difference. The Blu-ray edition does have the Zwigoff directors cut but I hear it’s a crap version. Bad Santa or Badder Santa…it is the same.

  65. paulie

    For some reason I thought Badder Santa was a sequel I had not yet seen. I just now found out it was a re-release of the original, but a sequel is supposed to come out about a year from now.

  66. Truth Hurts Republicans TOO

    Join Ron and Lew !

    Ron Paul has given us a huge opportunity. With your help, we intend to take full advantage of it.

    I mean, of course, Ron’s teaching of Austrian economics and the free market, and the crimes of the Fed and the government, to millions of young people. He touched hearts and changed minds in a way I’ve never seen, though Murray Rothbard predicted it more than 25 years ago.

    Political campaigns seldom do any good. But when Ron told young people about capitalism and honest money vs. the business cycle, taxes, Keynesianism, socialism, fascism, the police state and war, young people listened and cheered.

    It shocks many people to hear the unvarnished truth. They want to believe the propaganda. But the young, the smart, and the idealistic are hungry for the truth. They’re sick and tired of the TV, DC, and classroom lies. They want freedom and prosperity, and they want to learn how to bring them about. Please Donate Today: https://mises.org/forms/53/We-Need-Your-Help-in-2013

    Thus the Mises Institute. Thirty years ago, at the very beginning, Ron helped gather the seed money essential to our launch. Then as now, there were no billionaire “angels,” but many individual donors, men and women who care only about freedom and the future. People like you.

    For three decades — in a sense — we’ve been getting ready for the Ron Paul Moment. Just this year, we’ve taught many more thousands of young people, through our website, our student programs, and publications. All over the world, the Mises Institute is known as the place to study Austrian economics, the State, and liberty. We can help everyone from high-school students to senior scholars, and business leaders, professionals, the clergy, and journalists, too.

    Our faculty programs reach out to every professor in America and the world interested in our ideas. And just as our number of students is booming, so is the number of teachers. Our high-school, college, and graduate programs, academic journals, online and physical books, and audio and video lectures, make the best scholarship available to all, often at no charge.

    Why? Because we are dedicated to building the intellectual foundations of freedom, now and into the future. Many times Ron has mentioned to me just how successful we’ve been with the young people he meets, despite their indoctrination. Keep it up, he always says.

    But we must do more, especially now. Ron has asked me for our help, and so we will buckle down and work harder. We want to build our undergraduate and graduate programs online and on our campus, our library and archives, and our opportunities for good faculty. At a time when higher education is in decline, corrupted by government control and government money, the Mises Institute represents not only what is right, but the future.

    The Institute combines the newest in high-tech learning with the best traditions of classical teaching. We want to provide a real education to every deserving student who wants it, and the Ron Paul kids are the key to our future. Won’t you help us in the great task of providing the sound economics, good philosophy, and real history they want so desperately to learn?

    Please help us continue the work of the great thinkers who were Ron’s mentors and ours: Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, Hazlitt, Sennholz, and the other greats. Help us reach out to all the young people whose spirits Ron has stirred, on thousands of campuses (and millions of laptops!). Help us be the intellectual arsenal that liberty deserves. Help us defend sound money, capitalism, peace, and a truly free society.

    Please make the most generous tax-deductible donation you can to the Mises Institute, and to the great cause that you and Ron love. Please Donate Today: https://mises.org/forms/53/We-Need-Your-Help-in-2013

    We have our work cut out for us, but if you could join me in looking into Ron Paul’s great and good face as he speaks about the future, and see the shining faces of all the smart young people who look to him for guidance, you would know that truth is on our side, and so is time. As Mises said, not even the predatory state can defeat our ideas.

    But the truth must be developed, taught, and spread. Please help the Mises Institute do the historic work to which we’ve been called, at this all-important moment.

    Warmest regards,

    Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
    Founder and CEO

    Visit our website.

    Ludwig von Mises Institute
    518 West Magnolia Avenue
    Auburn, Alabama 36832-4501
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    800.636.4737

    The Ludwig von Mises Institute is a nonprofit organization. Contributions are tax-deductible to the full extent of the law.

  67. Krzysztof Lesiak

    As I mentioned on a comment on an article, I think it would be great if IPR had a form that users could use to submit articles. There hasn’t been a ton of articles posted recently, and I for one think that there are people, including myself, who could make a positive contribution.

    Having a page like “submit article” could allow people to become infrequent or even only one-time contributors to IPR. I think this feature would greatly enhance the already great overall IPR experience. I think this is something we need to seriously discuss because it is long overdue.

    Any thoughts? Who’s with me?

  68. paulie

    Open thread exists partially for that reason. We also used to have a contact.ipr email that automatically forwarded to all of us. It stopped working though. If anyone knows how to set that up, please let me know, I’d like to set that up again.

    We don’t have a shortage of submitted material, we mostly lack people who are willing and able to post them as articles.

    I suggested to the owner that we could allow anyone to sign up to post articles that would have to be approved by IPR editors before they are posted, but the idea was rejected because it could possibly lead to spammers using the feature.

    If anyone wants to be added as a contributor, just let me know in the comments here. Your first article or several may be moderated, but after that you can post them directly.

  69. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I think it’s a great idea, Krzysztof. We’ll have to see if the new owner thinks it will work, and I’m sure he’ll figure out a way to set it up.

    In the meantime, I try to post when I can, and you can always try sending something to me: stone@altrionet.com . I’ll certainly giive credit to whoever sends it to me.

  70. paulie

    I discussed the idea with the Redlich brothers and they seem to think there are security issues with hackers and spammers using the feature. You can try writing them directly (see the about page for contact info).

    The open thread is the place for what we are discussing here for now.

  71. paulie

    I’ve been emailed the minutes of the credentials committee meeting. The relevant portion:

    “The chairperson announced that the two persons claiming to be the Chairperson of the Libertarian Party
    of Oregon had been invited to address the committee for up to five minutes each. Mr. Reeves sent a
    representative, who spoke for one minute, offering to seat members of the Wagner delegation up to the
    limit of Oregon’s delegate allocation. Mr. Wagner declined the invitation to address the committee.
    Following debate and amendment, the committee voted “to seat the Oregon delegation submitted by
    the officers operating pursuant to the bylaws adopted by the members of the Libertarian Party of
    Oregon (aka: the Reeves group).” Without objection, it was ordered that the vote be taken by roll call.
    Carling, Coleman, Johnson, and Lieberman voted in the affirmative. Kirkland, Linnabary, and Salvette
    voted in the negative.”

  72. paulie

    The minutes don’t say it, but Mark Bodenhausen abstained.

    The whole minutes of the committee are one page, so it would have been interesting to see what went into the debate.

    I’m not sure whether I should thank the person who sent me the minutes by name publicly, since he emailed them rather than posting as a comment, but thanks.

  73. Krzysztof Lesiak

    Paulie, I’d love to be an occasional contributor to IPR. I just emailed Jill an article I wrote, hopefully, even though it is rather out of date, it will be published. Thanks.

  74. paulie

    I signed you up. Your first article or several has to be approved, after that you can publish them any time you want.

    If anyone else wants to sign up just ask.

  75. Krzysztof Lesiak

    Quick question, should I also submit the article the I emailed Jill, or just wait for her to respond?

  76. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I’m currently at work, and I gave my team the day off, so I won’t get to your article for a while. Go ahead and submit it! Good luck!

  77. paulie

    Approved and published. The only change I made was to categories; I did not see how it applied to third parties in general and a post that is categorized is not uncategorized.

  78. Krzysztof Lesiak

    I know I’m posting volumes, but I have just one more quick question pertaining to IPR. Why is there no longer a FB “like” button on IPR articles? It used to exist, but I see that it is no longer there.

  79. paulie

    There’s a facebook share link button.

    The Redlichs installed Jetpack, which has a bunch of different features including social media icons, so I thought it might be better to use that than Share Buttons by Lockerz / AddToAny which was what we had before. Maybe we should add a standalone facebook like button….know of a plugin for that?

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