Google Elections says that Gary Johnson has over 950,000 votes nationwide so far. While votes are still rolling in, this represents a larger raw vote total than any previous Libertarian Party presidential candidate, ever. Right now his percentage is hovering around .9%, lower than Ed Clark’s 1980 1.1%.
Yes.
It would also be fascinating to see what kind of pretzel logic Dond*** will come up with to claim that Santorum is the real libertarian in the race, or some such horsecrap.
If the GOP goes with Santorum it will only help the LP grow in the West and Northeast.
They might just be desperate enough by then, especially if Johnson builds enough support, to put Rand Paul on as VP. Not very likely, but not impossible.
If Rand Paul is the runner up in 2016 and/or VP nominee, it is not impossible that he could step into a “next in line” role for 2020 or 2024. He would probably have to pick someone like Santorum as his VP for “party unity” if that were to happen. Odds are it won’t happen, though.
Ryan-Rubio? They could even recycle the stylish “RR” logo from Romney-Ryan, LOL
@102 – But the Republicans will be even more desperate to nominate an “ethnic” next time in a bid to stay relevant. Perhaps Elizabeth Cheney will be added to the ticket to satisfy the next-in-line rule.
There are many within the Paul movement who don’t care for Rand and more importantly the claque around him (Benton-Hunter-Tate-Howard-Olson) and won’t be joining the GOP. Their talents as activists are just waiting to be used by the LP.
@100 I wish, but I don’t think so.
Rand Paul will want to run again in 2020.
Ron Paul will thus not endorse Johnson in 2016 for the same reason he couldn’t endorse him in 2012.
Also, I don’t think it will be Rubio. Republicans always nominate a “next in line” – previous nomination runner up, ex VP or VP nominee, or son of an ex-president. Eisenhower was the last not to fall in one of these categories, and he was a
victorious war general.
So for 2016: Paul Ryan, Santorum, Palin or Quayle? My best guess is Paul Ryan.
Thus in 2016, Rand Paul will lose to Paul Ryan for the Republican nomination, and Ron Paul will once again not endorse anyone.
My best guess – we’ll see.
” a declining interest in paleoconservatism, and libertarianism’s growth both inside and outside the Republican Party pretty much spells the slow death of the CP, I think. ”
Not necessarily. If there is ferment where actually fairly prominent Republicans do leave the party because it goes in a different direction on questions of abortion or immigrations, then the CP can benefit because right now, they are the only alternative conservative party to GOP. That’s no small feat.
The Green are in a similar situation. Obama sucks up a lot of oxygen but Stein was still able to draw attention to herself with her activism. With Obama safely re-elected, the Greens and others on the far Left may be more in a mood to be more critical of the administration and push more issues from the Left, especially with Hilary Clinton on the horizon.
@99 — I think it’s more likely in 2016 that RON Paul will endorse Johnson in the general (after Rand loses the primary to Rubio (whom Rand will endorse)).
So it will just be Rand Paul instead.
“If Goode sticks around, things could be much better in 2016. ”
I think that Virgil Goode is part of the problem. They’d be better off without him.
Agreed
If you mean for president, yes.
Might be interesting.
Yes, and Rockwell has moved away from it somewhat, too.
Agreed!
Laughing at Jill Stein and interrupting her was not good. I think he closed pretty well, though.
More debates, more practice.
It may be asking too much of them, but I would love it if Johnson and Stein ran a continuous campaign for 2016 starting now and debated often – how about having hundreds of debates at colleges all over the country? That would really be something and would create two powerful movements by 2016.
Even worse in a state that has kept all non-presidential LP candidates, and all candidates with the LP label except one single legislative candidate in 2006, off the ballot for the last 10 years.
That’s only one district of 11. It has little bearing on name recognition statewide.
I agree about the fraudulent “fair” tax but not about Johnson. It seems too many people want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, and in this case I don’t think it is Rosemary’s baby, either.
Yep!
I did not like that either, but other things outweighed.
Actually enhanced it quite a bit.
That’s what I’d like to see. There are also other points of convergence, even on some economic issues: corporate welfare, federal reserve, and the like.
Some of us already agree, but don’t see government as the way to achieve those goals.
Yep.
Been pushing for this on LNC.
Not much interest, unfortunately.
Seems there is more interest in junking ballot access and aiming for a party that is only on the ballot in some states and works mostly to elect local non-partisan candidates. I’ve pointed out more than once now that we can do that through other organizations as well, not just through the LP.
Besides increasing the chances that he beats Ed Clark’s percentage, ballot access in those states would have allowed him to keep saying he was on the ballot in every state, which was an important campaign talking point and could have increased votes at least somewhat in other states.
It’s even possible that missing those two states was the deciding factor why some large donors that had been considering major funding for superpacs for Johnson decides not to do so. I don’t know that for sure, but I have a hunch it may have played a role.
There’s nothing “fair” about it and it is definitely worse. I’m for removing the IRS but no tax really removes it – some agency or agencies will be collecting the money and insuring compliance, so that’s a transparent talking point.
Nevertheless, I do support Johnson and hope the momentum keeps building. The campaign did not coalesce until the final days and needs more time to build. We have plenty of time now, but not if we let it go until the last minute again or start over from scratch.
Votes that have not been counted yet will probably put Johnson over 1.2 million, but that’s not the issue.
We were talking about percentage of the vote, so Johnson is very close to Ed Clark’s percentage but at the moment it seems he will fall just short of beating Clark’s total by a small fraction of a percent. Had he been on in Michigan and Oklahoma it is much more likely that it would have made up this difference.
Thanks for the insights, Trent. I agree with you except I wasn’t aware that Clymer was all that wealthy.
“Trent- What do you think the future of the CP might be? This showing seems quite damaging to me. If Red reads this I would like his views as well.”
If Goode sticks around, things could be much better in 2016. Without Ron Paul sucking all the air out of the right-wing room, it’ll be easier. But, they’ve got to find money and they’ve got to get better about integrating volunteers.
Realistically: This is a sign of things to come. Declining ballot access, no money, Jim Clymer stepping down from the leadership (and all his money goes with him), Gary Odom no longer employed as field director (again, due to lack of funds), a declining interest in paleoconservatism, and libertarianism’s growth both inside and outside the Republican Party pretty much spells the slow death of the CP, I think. With that said, this isn’t their darkest moment. 2000 was. 2005-7 was a particularly dark period for the CP that is still having repercussions (Thus the lack of ballot access in Oregon and Montana).
If you add in the votes that the CP in Oregon got, Kansas Reform Party got, and then consider the lack of ballot access in states they generally have–like PA, CA, and AK–it’s easy to see how they fell short. They’ve got to put it all back together.
And yes, she has name recognition.
Ballot access in California. Yes, it’s a big deal.
Trent- What do you think the future of the CP might be? This showing seems quite damaging to me. If Red reads this I would like his views as well.
“Didn’t they only do worse than this one time?”
Twice. 42k in 2000 (when Buchanan was on the ballot) and 90k or so in 1992, when the party had just started. This is a significant set-back, I think.
In Michigan The Libertarian Party was on the ballot with a ticket headed by Scotty Boman for Senate. It looks like Scotty Boman will receive over 85,000 votes for just under 2%.
In Oklahoma, R.J. Harris was on the ballot as an Independent for Congress, and he received almost 12,000 votes, for 4.5%
So Libertarians had candidates on the ballot in all 50 states even if we missed two states for Gary Johnson.
“paulie // Nov 7, 2012 at 5:52 pm
‘199k is the CP’s best showing. 42k is the worst. This falls right in the middle.’
Didn’t they only do worse than this one time?”
It should also be pointed out that in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, and 2008 that there were some higher profile candidates in the race than this time (Perot, Nader, and Buschanan). This means that it should have been easier to get votes for smaller third party candidates this time.
Didn’t they only do worse than this one time?
Trent Hill said: “I think there will be a sizable number of write-in votes from Illinois, PA, CA, Indiana, Georgia, TX, NC, and some other smaller states.”
I’m pretty sure that only some of the counties in Pennsylvania count write in votes. So we are not likely to know how many write in votes Virgil Goode got in PA.
“- Virgil Goode did terribly — he got just over half the votes Chuck Baldwin got in 2008. A big fail by the CP here.”
I think there will be a sizable number of write-in votes from Illinois, PA, CA, Indiana, Georgia, TX, NC, and some other smaller states. I’d guess something like 10-15k. Maybe more. So while I agree it was bad, it wasn’t quite as bad as it looks now. 199k is the CP’s best showing. 42k is the worst. This falls right in the middle.
Zapper @62: Exactly!
Derek @65 small states – yes.
Safe states – evidence is that strategy does not work. Greens tried it in ’04 and failed.
Agreed with everything Jeremy said @66, none of which surprises me.
I’m surprised that Roseanne Barr did better than Rocky Anderson because Mr. Anderson did so well in the debates. Maybe that shows how few people watched the debates. 🙁
A few comments:
– Johnson had an excellent showing last night — the second-best Libertarian performance of all time by percentage, just behind Ed Clark’s in 1980. Johnson did it with a shoestring budget compared to Clark’s. Libertarians should be very, very happy with this performance.
– Jill Stein also had a great night. Not only did she get over twice as many votes as Cynthia McKinney did last cycle, she actually got almost as many votes as Nader did in 2004, despite being on the ballot in fewer states. Plus the counting isn’t over yet. I was proud to write in Jill Stein here in Indiana, and those votes will be counted, even though they haven’t been yet.
– Virgil Goode did terribly — he got just over half the votes Chuck Baldwin got in 2008. A big fail by the CP here.
– Pretty much all the other candidates did very poorly — none worse than Stewart Alexander, who got just over half the total Brian Moore polled in 2008. Rocky Anderson’s Justice Party total was also poor. Roseanne Barr, however, did respectably, and might consider starting her campaign earlier next time.
All in all, a great day for third party candidates.
Libertarians could’ve focused on the really pro-GOP and pro-Dem states. Big states like Illinois, New York, California or Texas are really either pro-GOP or pro-Dem, if the Libertarians mean business and want to stop being another third party, go after those voters that are going to vote for a candidate that won’t win that state and the non-voters. Small states like Alaska, Vermont, Maine, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Hawaii or Delaware, same thing.
To stop being a third party, focus on becoming the second party in those heavily pro-GOP or pro-Dem states.
Good effort from Johnson overall, still was hoping he could’ve at least matched Nader’s almost 3% showing in 2000.
Well congratulations to Johnson as it is the best showing for a third party candidate since Nader’s run in 2000.
The federal lawsuit in Oklahoma is not over by a long shot. I still think we will win it.
Goode got 109,000 votes credited to him late last night. Google messed up the tabulation.
Gary Johnson will probably end up with 1,220,000 votes, when all votes have been counted. That will probably be something like .97% of the national total.
There is a more strategic reason to obtain 50 state + DC etc. ballot status every 4 years, that is, if we let them push us around and off a few ballots here and there, why not a few more.
“PA or OH might be close, so hey, let’s push the Libertarians off, they don’t get 50 states and they don’t fight very hard.”
This year we fought back. Sure the fascist-statists kept us off in OK and MI – this time … But we fought hard and prevailed in several other states. (Great job in PA fighting back guys!)
So, now we should go out and make sure to get on in Oklahoma. At our first opportunity we should begin the ballot drive, be sure to go well beyond the minimum safety margin, use only LP petitioners, finish early and throw down the gauntlet.
Gary Johnson got an average of 1%. So take 1% of the votes from both of those states, and give them to Johnson to give a guess on how he would have done, and use those to add to his totals.
My biggest disappointment is knowing that Ron Paul got 2million votes in the primary. Shame.
Andy,
Thanks for clarification on your Oklahoma petition stance. To the LP’s credit AE had a lot of dough to throw around. I have to agree with you about some of the failures at the top. There’s a reason there was a lot of friction in Vegas.
“Several thousand is a far cry from 100,000, or even 50,000. Those population numbers include all the people who can’t vote or won’t vote regardless. Being on the ballot in those states probably wouldn’t even have put him over the 1.2 million mark vs 1.14 million. So I don’t see why not being on the ballots in OK or MI is being considered a huge problem in this race.”
We don’t know how he would have done in those states, but what we do know is that if he had been on the ballot in those states that he’d have more votes than he has now.
I like Rand Paul. I don’t feel like I would “abandon my principles for victory” by voting for Rand. True, he isn’t a full libertarian, but his stances on foreign policy, economic policy, monetary policy, and civil liberties grants him some legitimacy for me. His voting record is proof enough. I don’t like that he is pro-life or anti-gay marriage, but to me these things pale in comparison to the war on drugs, the police state, and our destructive foreign policy. I could easily consider voting for him in the Republican primary, and afterwards supporting the Libertarian nominee once Rand loses to the establishment.
Andy: “I don’t know. Michigan has a population of around 10 million people. Oklahoma has a population of around 3.8 million people. How many the people who are registered to vote in those states would have turned out and voted for Gary Johnson? I don’t know for sure, but I think it’s safe to say that it would have been several thousand.”
Several thousand is a far cry from 100,000, or even 50,000. Those population numbers include all the people who can’t vote or won’t vote regardless. Being on the ballot in those states probably wouldn’t even have put him over the 1.2 million mark vs 1.14 million. So I don’t see why not being on the ballots in OK or MI is being considered a huge problem in this race.
I do think 50-state ballot access is good though. The more people who have an opportunity to vote Libertarian the better & it’s a good stat to mention.
I worked on the Nader campaign in ’96 and ’00, and I was thinking about Nader getting 2.8 mil in 2000 after spending a fair amount of money (for an alternative candidate) and there were the massive “Super Rallies” etc, and from what I’ve read abt the Johnson ’12 campaign not that much money was spent (on his Lib candidacy) and while I guess Johnson traveled a lot, but Johnson never had 20000 people at a rally like Nader did in Madison Square.
So, I guess I am wondering how much of Johnson’s impressive (in my opinion) 1 mil + votes were due to his campaigning or interest in the Libertarian Party, and how much was more related to the “Liberty movement” generally and anti-Obama voters, like me, who couldn’t vote for Romney?
I have no real answers, but it is interesting to think about.
“shauna // Nov 7, 2012 at 2:28 pm
I just want to say that I did vote for Gary and the number 1 reason was due to his persistence on implementing the FairTax. I can’t believe followers on this page are against the removal of the IRS. it’s so weird that a Libertarian view would also be in support of the unconstitutional current tax system. I will vote for the FairTax every chance I get!”
I’m in favor of eliminating the income tax and replacing it with NOTHING. I certainly don’t want to replace it with something that is just as bad – if not worse – than the income tax, and yes, the Fair Tax is just as bad – or maybe even worse – than the income tax.
I just want to say that I did vote for Gary and the number 1 reason was due to his persistence on implementing the FairTax. I can’t believe followers on this page are against the removal of the IRS. it’s so weird that a Libertarian view would also be in support of the unconstitutional current tax system. I will vote for the FairTax every chance I get!
JT said: “JT // Nov 7, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Question: If GJ had been on the ballot in Michigan & Oklahoma, what’s the likelihood that he’d have received more than 100,000 additional votes?”
I don’t know. Michigan has a population of around 10 million people. Oklahoma has a population of around 3.8 million people. How many the people who are registered to vote in those states would have turned out and voted for Gary Johnson? I don’t know for sure, but I think it’s safe to say that it would have been several thousand.
If the Libertarian Party is going to be taken seriously as a national political party then it needs to be on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC.
Question: If GJ had been on the ballot in Michigan & Oklahoma, what’s the likelihood that he’d have received more than 100,000 additional votes?
I’d like the LP to have 50-state ballot access & give people in every state the opportunity to vote for a true fiscal conservative/social liberal. But it seems that a lot of importance is being placed here on not having him on the ballot in 2 states. I don’t see how that would’ve increased his vote total very much if he received 1.14 million in the other 48 states.
“Kleptocracy And You // Nov 7, 2012 at 1:20 pm
We have to grow the LP to have any hope. Having to pay $1 or more a signature just to gain ballot access (in the land of the free) eats up too much of the now limited funds to do any advertisements.”
This is why I’ve been advocating for years that the Libertarian Party make an effort to hire as many actual Libertarians as possible to work as paid petitioners. The party should of course utilize volunteer Libertarian Party petitioners as much as possible as well, but considering the volume of signatures that need to be collected in a lot of places relying on volunteers to knock out all of these jobs is just not realistic. Arm the Libertarian petitioners with party outreach material to hand out to interested members of the public, and also give them all separate contact lists where interested members of the public can sign up to receive more information about the Libertarian Party. There is no reason why ballot access petition drives can’t also be utilized as PARTY OUTREACH/BUILDING opportunities instead of just getting a bunch of signatures.
I have encountered a rather disturbing number of Libertarian Party members (mostly on the LNC, but also in some state party leadership positions) who can’t seem to grasp this concept. These people don’t seem to give a rat’s ass about whether or not any outreach gets done during a petition drive, and they often times will squander thousands of LP donor dollars and miss big opportunities at building the party by hiring non-libertarian mercenaries who don’t give a rat’s ass if the party succeeds of fails (see the recent fiascos in Oklahoma and Pennsylvania for examples).
If I were the one calling the shots with the money I’d only hire non-libertarian mercenaries if I couldn’t find enough Libertarians (both paid and volunteer) to knock out a petition drive. My goal would be to recruit enough Libertarians (both paid and volunteer) to where the use of mercenaries would be minimal.
@45 Great analysis
“The original USTP’s brochure that Phillips and Rothbard sent out in ’92 had twenty points (goals).”
Murray Rothbard was part of the United State’s Tax Payers Party?!?!?!?! I’ve never heard this one before.
I know that Murry Rothbard had an alliance at one point with Pat Buchanan. Assuming that what you are saying here is accurate, was this when Pat Buchanan was being considered as a candidate for President by the US Tax Payer’s Party?
Phillips and ROCKWELL sent out in ’92, my bad !
We have to grow the LP to have any hope. Having to pay $1 or more a signature just to gain ballot access (in the land of the free) eats up too much of the now limited funds to do any advertisements. Good Ads is how to increase vote totals. The WAR Parties (D & Rs) receive million$ of FREE air time from the Lackeys in the media. We (LP and all alternatives) are so far behind from the start, it is extremely difficult. That’s why I’m not opposed to taking the matching funds. Which I opposed for over twenty years as unlibertarian. If it is a voluntary checkoff no force is involved. It should add to growth everywhere!
Yes the CP with Goode didn’t perform well at all. The original USTP’s brochure that Phillips and Rothbard sent out in ’92 had twenty points (goals). I agreed with 19 of them. Since then, they have changed things because of (IMO) extreme Christians having sway on the platform committee. Anyway I know some CP members can still fit in to the L quad on the Nolan Chart and should consider joining their local LP as it seems the CP is fading away.
This is probably premature but I’m also surprised at the failure of Rocky Anderson to defeat Roseann Barr. At this time Roseann is leading him, this could change after it is all over, but this can prove to me the Greens should have placed her on the ticket even if VP. Celebrity candidates normally just pull more votes than obscure politicians or Ivy League doctors. I mean I’m just saying Roseann on the Ballot in 3 states and gets 1/6 to 1/7 of someone on in thirty plus states. The Greens might have made a mistake this time……..
SAY IT WITH A BUMPER STICKER – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=4
@ 39 and 40: At least Wayne Allyn Root will have a “job” for 4 years, in writing and speaking against Obama. It seems like that’s how he really spent his time past few months.
Here’s his take on Romney’s loss:
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/what-mitt-romney-should-have-said/
David Leip seems to have a different vote total for Virgil Goode then Google Elections.
The total vote for the Greens and other left parties is a disappointment. Little more than half the total vote count of Nader and McKinney. Granted, 2008 featured stronger candidates and some of these votes no doubt went to (progressive by Libertarian standards) Johnson. But at the same time the attitude of anti-authoritarian progressives has gone from lukewarm to Obama to hostile to Obama, yet that didn’t translate into a 2000 (or even 2008) vote total.
Where to go from here? Should progressives coalesce around the Green party or work towards starting a broader 3rd party movement? Or will they be subsumed into the Democratic party? Most of the momentum re. dissent in America is gathered around the Ron Paul movement…can progressives learn from this movement and build left/right convergences?
The points of convergence are many. Opposition to oil wars and the MIC, agreement on civil liberties, agreement on the need for transparent government processes and transparent elections, electoral reform, and agreement on the drug war. These points of convergence alone should be sufficient to build a new broad-based 3rd party movement.
Starting with GOP propaganda on trickle-down economics in the 80s and 90s, and continuing with the more intellectually sophisticated Ron Paul phenomenon, it seems the system has been promoting Libertarianism as the go-to philosophy of dissent for some time. Some possible reasons for this include 1) libertarians support austerity and are allies with the elites in that regard 2) libertarians tend to be principled and non-violent, but not capable of organizing en masse, so no real threat to the status quo.
The promotion of Libertarianism is not all bad. The good thing, for patriots, is that the non-violent and moral/ethical side of Libertarianism also fosters implicit opposition to the military industrial complex and corporatism….you see this with the Adam Kokesh types who are evolving towards a principled anti-statist position. The challenging part is convincing Libertarians that justice and health are just as important as economic growth and prosperity. t the same time, progressives can learn from Libertarians about the importance of liberty, self-sufficiency, and the direct relationship between statist institutions and endless war.
I agree with fears that Rand Paul is being groomed as a faux-libertarian that herds Libertarians into the Republican party, and then eventually convinces Libertarians they need to abandon their principles in the pursuit of victory.
Congrats to Gary Johnson on the historic vote total!
I didn’t vote for him because of his insistence on pushing a national sales tax scheme in every interview I saw. Fortunately he wasn’t able to do too much damage to the brand.
“As for Wayne Allyn Root-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good luck with that Senate run. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”
My sentiments exactly.
Agreed about the fair tax.
Hate the fair tax.
Like Gary Johnson.
The time period between elections is a good time to just let that fair tax idea die, in particular the “prebate” which is a universal welfare check.
Cutting the budget 43% or 50% in the first year is great. Abolishing all taxes by consitutional amendment and replacing them with a single, flat-rate consumption tax is also great. I would recommend that you advocate a constitutional cap setting a maximum of 10% on the consumption tax. In addition, a balanced budget amendment to require the Federal Government to live within the revenues generated by that 10% tax.
Dear Gary,
Please drop the (un) Fair Tax, which Libertarians all hate, and please help us build a successful party. Together we can win our fight for Liberty.
“1. Be on the ballot in all 50 states – don’t file late in Michigan, file on time. The fight for ballot access is important and has to be managed at the highest level of importance.”
The failure in Michigan was caused by Gary Johnson having been placed in the Republican primary by the Michigan Secretary of State, even though Gary Johnson had already dropped out of the Republican primary, and then the “sore loser” law being illegally applied to Gary Johnson. This was a screw job. The Michigan Secretary of State and the judge who ruled in the case ought to be removed from office over this.
@29
On the Constitution Party website they have a vote tabulation which shows Goode with about 74,000 votes nationally – I do not know where they get these numbers from. I knew his tepid campaign was going to score low, but I don’t think under 100,000 is an accurate number. Anyone else have a place to look for Goode’s numbers?
Congratulations to all of you LP folks. You nominated a good candidate and reached a long sought after goal. Well done. Hopefully this will help bury the memory of 2008 . I think it would be very good for the Party to renominate him in 2016 but that is a long way off.
As for Wayne Allyn Root-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good luck with that Senate run. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
“Sean Scallon // Nov 7, 2012 at 11:24 am
The LP had one of its best nights since 1980. It is now the strongest non-major party in the country with the Green and the CP afterward.”
The LP was stronger than the Green Party and the Constitution Party before this election. It is even stronger now, but I’m just pointing out that this is not a new development.
“The key LP is to able to take these votes they had and build viable state-wide parties and position itself as an alternative to Republican Party hell-bent on anachorism and Democratic Party hell-bent on nationalism. Ron Paul offered the perfect road map to follow and now all they have to do is drive it.”
Yes, whether or not this can be built on is going to determine the future success of the Libertarian Party.
Thane Eichanauer said: “I have been very impressed with Gary Johnson and his effort this election cycle (as well as his cohort Judge Jim Gray) but unless Gary Johnson is willing to drop his advocacy of the Fair Tax I would just as well he pursue some other political office or hobby.
The Fair Tax sucks, always has and always will.”
I agree.
“George Dance // Nov 7, 2012 at 10:42 am
#5: Actually, Johnson’s failure to be on the Oklahoma ballot was also due to the Republican Attorney-General (under false pretences) getting the LP’s lawyers to postpone their lawsuit.”
If the petition drive had been conducted correctly it would not have been necessary to rely on those law suits.
“#10: Why would you think that Johnson has more name recognition than Goode in Virgina? Goode was elected there, several times, under different party affiliations.”
Virgil Goode was probably better known in his Congressional District, but keep in mind that most people have no idea who all of the Congressmen are in their state. Heck, a lot of people don’t even know who their own Congressman is. Gary Johnson had a much more visible campaign and he appeared on several national TV shows. How many TV shows was Virgil Goode on? Quite a bit less than Johnson. I drove through Virginia before the election and I saw several Gary Johnson for President signs posted in various places. I did not see one Virgil Goode sign anywhere in Virginia. I drove up 81 North and it goes past an exit which is not too far from Rocky Mount, VA which is where Virgil Goode is located.
@24
“If he’s willing, GJ should spend the next four years visiting every state every year to help build the grassroots LP.”
I have been very impressed with Gary Johnson and his effort this election cycle (as well as his cohort Judge Jim Gray) but unless Gary Johnson is willing to drop his advocacy of the Fair Tax I would just as well he pursue some other political office or hobby.
The Fair Tax sucks, always has and always will.
https://www.google.com/search?q=fair+tax+fraud
“30 Oranje Mike // Nov 7, 2012 at 11:07 am
#9, would you care to enlighten us or do you prefer we just take your word for it?”
I’ve posted about this before on here, but to save people from having to search through past comments here are some quick bullet points:
1) My advice was ignored on multiple occasions. I urged that the Libertarian Party start a petition drive in Oklahoma as early as possible. The Libertarian Party had a good team of petitioners in Arkansas, and after Arkansas was finished could have kept that team working, but instead of doing that, the LP basically did little or nothing with ballot access for a few months after this. That missed time was crucial. The team could have gone right into Oklahoma after Arkansas, or it could have gone right to South Dakota and knocked that state out much earlier than it was, and then gone to Oklahoma. It was completely foolish to kill the momentum that was going in Arkansas.
2) Myself and a few others offered to go into Oklahoma to work on the petition drive, and this offer was made to somebody at LP National as well as to the then State Chair in Oklahoma. The person at LP National ignored this offer and the Oklahoma State Chair said that they’d call us back and they never did.
3) I warned a person at LP National that the petition drive in Oklahoma could run into trouble, and that given that the deadline was March 1st, it could be difficult to get petitioners to go into Oklahoma since there was going to be lots of petition work going on at the same time in other states. I turned out to be correct about this, because when it became apparent that the petition drive in Oklahoma was in trouble and calls were going out to get more petitioners to come in the state most of those called turned the job down because they were working on a better gig elsewhere.
4) Americans Elect petitioned in Oklahoma during the same time as the Libertarian Party was petitioning. Americans Elect started at a later date than the LP petition, yet Americans Elect made it. Another piece of advice that I gave which was not fully utilized was to make sure that every petitioner who was working on Americans Elect got offered the opportunity to work the LP petition, and make sure that the LP petition paid enough to make it worth petitioners’ time to ask people to sign both of the petitions. There were petitioners who worked both of the petitions at the same time (if there hadn’t been, the LP petition would have failed by an even wider margin), however, instead of hiring the petitioners directly and paying them a higher pay rate on the LP petition, the LP went through petition coordinator middlemen who kept part of the rate per signature that the LP was paying as on override, therefore by the time the petition got down to the street level to the petition circulators, it was not paying very much. I know that there were people who worked on the LP petition for .75 cents per signature. I heard that it went up to $1 for these people late in the petition drive, but those rates are so low that they don’t really motivate people to work. Also, the petition coordinators who were getting the top rate in the state on Americans Elect had no incentive to even bother to make sure that every petitioner was carrying the LP petition since they were making a lot of money off of the Americans Elect petition and they made little or nothing off the LP petition (it was lower level coordinators who had the deals on the LP petition). Having the petition out at a low rate on the street does not increase the production, it decreases the production.
5) There were basically no libertarians who worked on the petition drive as paid petitioners. I know that there was one Libertarian petitioner who did work in Oklahoma, but this person arrived toward the end of the petition drive and actually worked most of the time after the March 1st deadline (they kept the petition drive going for a couple of weeks or so after the deadline because they were hoping to win a law suit). Given that the vast majority of the petitioners were mercenaries and not libertarians, they didn’t really care if the petition drive was successful or not.
6) Americans Elect raised their pay rate up and brought more petitioners into the state in the last few weeks, but by the time the LP got more serious about doing this it was too little too late, and also, not all the petitioners who came in later to work Americans Elect even knew that the LP petition was going, and some of those who did know about it didn’t bother to work on it because the pay rate on the street was too low.
I could go on, but I think everyone should get the picture now.
Not bad, not great–pretty good showing, IMO. He did set a record for raw vote total for a Libertarian candidate, but I was hoping that GJ would draw somewhere near 2 million votes. That wouldn’t have happened even if GJ were on the ballot in all 50 states.
Then again, national polling was neck-and-neck between Obama & Romney, which was what many media outlets focused on. I don’t think that most people realized that Obama had a big lead in electoral votes ahead of the election & it was highly unlikely that Romney would carry all the battleground states he’d need to win. So pretty good result for GJ, I’d say, especially given the resources the campaign had at its disposal.
” Goode was elected there, several times, under different party affiliations.”
In a very close state election conservatives in Virginia broke for Romney solely to beat Obama so Goode suffered as a result. The CP faces the same demographic problem as the GOP. It was a created as conservative alternative to the Republicans but conservatives have balked at following it. It may gain new members as the GOP ferement to follow depending on who wins out, but they’re not exactly young pups.
The LP had one of its best nights since 1980. It is now the strongest non-major party in the country with the Green and the CP afterward. The key LP is to able to take these votes they had and build viable state-wide parties and position itself as an alternative to Republican Party hell-bent on anachorism and Democratic Party hell-bent on nationalism. Ron Paul offered the perfect road map to follow and now all they have to do is drive it.
#9, would you care to enlighten us or do you prefer we just take your word for it?
On google, Virgil Goode got less votes than Chuck Baldwin???
#5: Actually, Johnson’s failure to be on the Oklahoma ballot was also due to the Republican Attorney-General (under false pretences) getting the LP’s lawyers to postpone their lawsuit.
#10: Why would you think that Johnson has more name recognition than Goode in Virgina? Goode was elected there, several times, under different party affiliations.
Coming from a State Director in the Deep South, its tough down here.
First of all, I think Gary Johnson is a fine candidate, and I am pleased with the results.
However, for the LP the usual factors impact vote totals.
1. Be on the ballot in all 50 states – don’t file late in Michigan, file on time. The fight for ballot access is important and has to be managed at the highest level of importance.
2. Don’t have competition. We can’t manage this one, but John Anderson’s run in 1980, Perot’s run in 1992 & 1996, and Nader’s run in 1996, 2000, 2004, and 2008 – gave ‘protest’ voters a big name to glom onto.
3. Do have a good candidate – Gary Johnson was that, he was a popular two term governor in New Mexico – and that state was carried by Obama, and nobody expected it to be a swing state – meaning people could safely vote for a 3rd party.
So the votes reflected that with his 3.5% total.
I am also very glad the LP is finally educating people that you can’t make a moonshot in a few months. We needed for years to have an attainable goal – and ironically its the government that finally supplied one – 5% for matching funds, that’s a goal to rally around.
I hope Gary Johnson runs again in 4 years, he’s the best candidate in a long while. I don’t care about Rand Paul’s upcoming fake run for president – it’s nothing but a keep the libertarians in the party type of move, they’ll actually nominate another big government welfare/warfare candidate.
I suggest we begin working against Rand Paul right now. My 2 cents, congratulations to everyone.
The MSMedia Blackout is still the killer. Until the LP has the funds to run a full scale ad campaign bypassing the blackout it will remain an impossible task to breakthrough to SECOND Party status. Overall this was a GREAT year considering the usual built in obtacles to an alternative Party POTUS campaign.
I agree 100% with R.C. @ 11. Hopefully he (and his handlers) can understand the FairTax didn’t help him and it didn’t “catch fire” with anyone.
And yes I wasn’t pleased with his debate appearance in the last F&FE on Monday night. I don’t doubt he frightened some voters away who might consider he would be in control of the nuclear football (finger on the button) . He acted plain GOOFY at times and that continuous “jerky” motion isn’t a calming confident effect to me. He should have practiced just like Romney and Obama for the debate appearances. He didn’t come across as Presidential to me and he needs MAJOR work before he would be acceptable to the masses….
Can You Guess Which is the most popular LP bumper sticker of all time? (Not that any Libertarian would buy something just because it’s popular but WHYNOT help the LP & yourself……
http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=2
If he’s willing, GJ should spend the next four years visiting every state every year to help build the grassroots LP. As a “speaker/commentator” on the political scene (i.e. the continuing f–kups of the two big parties) he should be able to get attention and the ears of those who weren’t willing to listen when he was a candidate/threat to Romney and Obama.
The minimum goal of the LP should be to have
50,000 members & financial supporters by 2016.
@13 – tongue in cheek.
A thought: In GJ’s home district for the House, the R only got 37%. Maybe he should run for that seat as an L.
One doesn’t want to write off any region of the country, but it does appear that the paleo wing of the liberty movement tends to skew deep South, and that Rothbard/Rockwell strategy was and remains ill-advised.
And where did Ross Perot do the worse ? The DEEP SOUTH!
I’m in a state that Romney carried by over 400K votes. I placed over 125 GJ road signs and the vast majority of them was taken down, in Some cases in a matter of hours. In some cases Romney signs were put up within 50 yards of where the GJ signs were removed.
In simple language these deep south folks are BIGGER close minded asses than the close minded asses in other states ! Too many FREE lunch Mushrooms indeed!
Libertarian Solution: Close Military Bases = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1dCawOP-jc&feature=uploademail
RP, note that you can “drill down” to county results.
This tool seems pretty good….
https://news.google.com/news/section?pz=1&cf=all&topic=el&ict=ln&ar=1352292833
I believe that Gary Johnson got more votes than all the other third party candidates combined in the USA for 2012
Where is a good site for third party results by state?
And where did GJ do worst? The Deep South.
Biggest disappointment in the results: Only 1.2% in NH. He did much better in MT, IN, SD, etc.
PG, why is that a “good thing”?
Good thing he retracted that endorsement of US Senate candidate Jon Barrie in his home state of NM.
Barrie, who endorsed Johnson and was backed by the NM Libertarian Party, outpolled him.
Congrats to Team GJ! Besting 1MM was no small feat, given the closeness of the popular vote and the weak R and D candidates.
Could it have gone better? Sure. Were there missteps? Yes. All in all, though, GJ presented the nation with a plausible L president, with generally great ideas and with attractive communications.
Should he follow through and run again in 16, my 2 big suggestions would be:
1) Lose the FAIR Tax.
2) Work on your TV presentation. Mostly, this just takes practice at being fluid, about having good bridging devices, being up on the issues but framing them in a compelling ways.
“Gary Johnson received more votes than Virgil Goode in Virginia, more votes than Jill Stein in Massachusetts, and more votes than Rocky Anderson in Utah.”
I’m not surprised by this. Gary Johnson has more name recognition and his campaign raised more money than all of those other candidates you mentioned.
“Oranje Mike // Nov 7, 2012 at 2:12 am
#5, Do you have any facts or are you making assumptions?”
I have facts.
Barack Obama defeated Romney/Ryan in Massachusetts, Michigan and Wisconsin.
Gary Johnson received more votes than Virgil Goode in Virginia, more votes than Jill Stein in Massachusetts, and more votes than Rocky Anderson in Utah.
Gary Johnson came in third in almost every state where he was on the ballot. Jill Stein is slightly ahead of Johnson in DC. Jill Stein came in third in Michigan.
Yes
#5, Do you have any facts or are you making assumptions?
The fact that Gary Johnson is not on the ballot in Oklahoma and Michigan should serve as a lesson to Libertarian Party members who don’t think that ballot access is important.
I know that Michigan was the result of a paper work filing screw job and a horrible court ruling, but the failure in Oklahoma was the result of a mismanaged ballot access petition drive.
Yes, that’s right, the Libertarian Party’s failure to obtain ballot access in Oklahoma was completely avoidable. The fact of the matter is that the petition drive was mismanaged.
Popular vote record – Allah Akhbar!
Obama and Romney, both below 50% populae vote – As-salamu alaykum!
As of 1:30am Eastern, Google shows Johnson at 1.05 million votes. It also shows e.g. less than 25% of California precincts reporting.
So far I am not seeing any states where he is covering the Obama/Romney spread, but he is polling in the 2.x-3.x% range in several states (New Mexico and Montana are two I noticed).
It’s 1:30 am, and per Google Johnson’s vote just went over 1 million. (1,007,570), out of roughly 106 million cast; ie still around 0.9%
Gary Johnson is over 1,000,000.