Van Jones Attacks Libertarians as “Bigots”

I saw this story on the Facebook page of Robert Butler. The story is from The Blaze. I think Jones has small l libertarians more in mind, but I figured this would make for an interesting discussion nonetheless.

In a venomous speech this weekend, notorious ex-Obama aid Van Jones went on a hate-filled rant against “cheap patriotism” and “libertarians,” calling out his free-market opponents as “anti-immigrant, bigots.”…

… Jones began his speech by citing his six months of work in the White House before launching into a tirade against the “so-called Libertarians.”

In citing the Libertarian principle of economic liberty, Jones stated “They’ve taken their despicable ideology and used it a wrecking ball, that they have painted red, white and blue, to smash down every good thing in America.”

Jones continued, “They say they’re Patriots but they hate everybody in America who looks like us.  They say they love America but they hate the people, the brown folk, the gays, the lesbians, the people with piercings, ya know ya’ll.”

Read more…

70 thoughts on “Van Jones Attacks Libertarians as “Bigots”

  1. Oranje Mike

    Van Jones is an idiot. I am not shocked he does not know what the libertarian philosophy is.

  2. Jill Pyeatt

    This is hate speech. I’m going to report it on the “See something. say something” website (or call the phone number, however we’re supposed to do it).

    Seriously, the fact that he uses the term “Patriots” shows he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Conservatives and neocons call themselves “patriots”.

  3. Matt Cholko

    Things like this make me wonder if we need to come up with a new name for libertarianism. Many people see libertarians as far-right crazies.

  4. Michael H. Wilson

    I’d like to see the original. I have read more than a few things from The Blaze and then found the original to be somewhat different.

  5. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    There is truth in what he says.

    Sure, if you define libertarianism by what some philosopher puts on paper, then libertarianism isn’t bigotry.

    But if you define libertarianism by the people who call themselves libertarian … well, truth be told, many (yes, a great many, even if not most) self-styled libertarians are racist bigots.

    I’ve seen and heard their remarks about Muslims and Mexicans at LP supper clubs. These self-styled libertarian bigots (including some in the LP) don’t say “towelhead” or “wetback,” but they use the sort of right-wing buzz words that imply (while carefully not actually stating) nasty things.

    Many right-wing talk show hosts call themselves “libertarian” even if they adhere to an anti-immigrant, pro-war/neocon agenda.

    In time, a philosophy is defined by its adherents more than by its paper fantasies. Do we define Communism by its utopian good intentions, or by its gulags?

    Libertarians don’t give Communism a pass just because it looks pretty on paper. Why then do libertarians expect a pass just because it looks pretty on paper?

    But hey, immigrant-bashing and Muslim-bashing might win votes! That’s the important thing, at least according to some LP leaders.

  6. Thomas L. Knapp

    The LP embraces a former Lester Maddox speechwriter (Neal Boortz) for years, then runs a Dixiecrat (“states rights is the essence of libertarianism”) for president, with a running mate who gives a race-baiting interview in which he implies that the only reason Obama got into Harvard is that he’s black …

    … and wonders why people draw the obvious conclusions.

  7. Robert Capozzi

    8 tk, how exactly did the LP “embrace” Boortz?

    This Jones-o-gram doesn’t appear to be so much a (almost entirely unfair and inaccurate) critique of the LP, but of L-ism and small-l Ls.

    I’d say the reputational damage that NewsletterGate did was far more high profile than a radio personality being invited to speak at a convention or one quote by a VP candidate or the use of the term “states rights.” I would note that states rights is a term one sees on the Lew Rockwell.com with some regularity, although I notice that I’ve not seen that term much of late on the top-viewed L site in the world.

    Distancing L-ism from some of its shadowy and extreme past will take some work and some time. There will always be those who will not listen and who will twist our words, but the fair and open-minded middle might. Hence, my profound disappointment with the handling of NewsletterGate.

    Adding to the PERCEPTION of “extremists” by advocating abolishing the State is also not helpful to the cause of distancing L-ism from the haters, IMO. By making extremist pronouncements, a large number in the audience will recoil and assume the worst. Only the most patient will sit while you explain that it’s OK to carry an (unloaded?) bazooka on public property and into the subway. Most will associate such a position as somewhere in the McVeigh spectrum.

    But you know that, right?

  8. RedPhillips Post author

    “in which he implies that the only reason Obama got into Harvard is that he’s black”

    Tom, do you seriously believe that Obama would have gotten into the very competitive Harvard Law School if he were white? Obama has admitted that his undergrad grades were not stellar. It would be nice to know his LSAT score. So what Root said was almost certainly true. Should he have not said it anyway even though it is true? If you want to erase the stigma that black students at elite universities are often affirmative action cases (which is an undeniable fact) then get rid of affirmative action. Attack affirmative action. Don’t attack Root, at least not about this.

  9. Eric Dondero

    Did Jill Pyeatt above just say that we libertarians are not Patriots?

    My gosh!

    Confirms the worst fears of us right-libertarians. That Ron Paulists and other left-libertarians really do hate America.

  10. Eric Dondero

    If you’re looking for racism, look to the Muslim world and their hatred for Americans, American culture, and American values.

    Oh, and they hate the Jews too. They just slaughtered a Rabbi and 3 little Jewish kids at a Jewish School in southern France. (Ahh, but you won’t see that sort of thing reported at IPR. Doesn’t quite fit the left-libertatrian, Jew-hating template.)

  11. Oranje Mike

    Racism is far more rampant in Republican and Democratic circles than it is in Libertarian circles. Anyone that singles out the LP is an idiot.

  12. Let the T-Rex of Talk Radio Entertain U2day

    @16 that friend has been established long ago !!!!!!!!!

    Van jones is a THIEF and dislikes anyone who believes in work and individual RESPONSIBILY ! Force and Fraud is his game. Sc%#* him and the jackass he rode in on. He and his buddies enjoy redistributing other peoples money. Forget him !

    IMO-Some people on here have been so indoctrinated in and by gov’t education they are in a political correct mindset and don’t even realize it. Judge, if you must, people by the content of their character no matter their race, creed or color. Just because some jackass mouths off, WHO CARES !

    Capozzi you do realize your continued use of the word “newslettergate” dates you as an OLD fart using early 70’s terms in 2012? You are the only person who has mentioned the newsletters in weeks. If you Sir would let it die, perhaps it would die!

    The Compassion of Dr. Ron Paul – http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

    NAACP Austin TX Director Nelson Linder speaks on Ron Paul- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhv3paNz6U Linder is interviewed explaining why he does not believe Ron Paul is a racist.

    Busted! OMG! OMG! Ron Paul racist rant caught on tape-NOT! – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3EADdr-5AY&feature=share

    THE ROTHSCHILDS Owns/controls ALL media through their Reuters and AP ! – http://www.luckinlove.com/rothmedia.htm

  13. ATBAFT

    #13 point of info: the 1996 LP convention was in Washington, DC. & don’t recall seeing Boortz as a speaker. They did have Grover Norquist speak at some breakout session, and Lee Edwards was the keynote speaker regarding the libertarian legacy of Sen. Barry Goldwater who did, of course, vote against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

  14. LibertarianGirl

    and you wont see all the innocent Muslim children killed by US bobms on racist eric donderos page either….I agree with several people above…we already have a rep for not caring as we dont want welfare but are SLIM PICKINS on waysto replace it or with some sort of coercion free/libertarian charity , that coupled with he whose name shall not be mentioned being the defacto spokes person and acting like a neocon not a libertarian , then voila , theres the rep..or thats a rap , whatever , u get the point

  15. Common Tater

    VJ (allegedly):

    “They say they’re Patriots”

    I said that? When and where?

    “They say they love America but they hate the people, the brown folk, the gays, the lesbians, the people with piercings, ya know ya’ll.”

    I hate myself? Really? I did not know that.

    Mr. ED:

    “Confirms the worst fears of us right-libertarians. That Ron Paulists and other left-libertarians really do hate America.”

    We don’t hate America. We do hate the military-industrial complex, homeland gestapo, internal espionage, world terrorist US police state. We want it out of North America, out of South America, out of Central America, and out of the rest of the world.

    ” 1996 (I believe?) Libertarian National Convention held in Atlanta.”

    2004.

    But Boortz has since said he opposes the LP for allegedly taking votes from Republicans, and got uninvited from speaking to the LP convention (either for 2010 or 2012 – I’ll have to look it up).

    “Ahh, but you won’t see that sort of thing reported at IPR.”

    Did it involve a third party or independent candidate? Dondero has been around long enough to know that IPR has a strictly restricted subject matter for its articles.

    “Doesn’t quite fit the left-libertatrian, Jew-hating template.”

    Many IPR writers and commontaters are Jews. Are they all self-hating Jews in Mr. Ritalinberg’s fevered imagination?

    WPR

    “That sounds about right. Sums it up perfectly.”

    Sums what up? Certainly not my ideology or world view as a libertarian.

    “Tom, do you seriously believe that Obama would have gotten into the very competitive Harvard Law School if he were white?”

    Dunno. Would he have been a legacy? Have I seen his test scores, essays, recommendations, etc?

  16. Jill Pyeatt

    ED @ 12: I did NOT say that Libertarians are not patriots. I said that we don’t usually use that term to describe ourselves because it’s too easily confused with conservatives and neocons. Most of us use the more general term “Liberty” in its various forms to identify our party more specifically. I suspect you really knew what I was saying, though.

    What Libertarians should protect most dearly is our belief in not intervening in other countries who don’t threaten us.

  17. paulie

    Either what Van Jones is allegedly describing here can legitimately be called libertarianism, or what I believe can legitimately be called libertarianism, but not both.

    I’m not that stuck on terminology, so if the bigots win the “ownership” of the L word, I can call myself something else. Same goes for the LP or any other political party.

    Peace, civil liberties and anti-corporatism have always been my positions. The Democrats convinced me they would never put those positions into policy when they picked Bill Clinton over Jerry Brown for the ’92 nomination. I read some economics texts and learned about free market anti-corporatism which crystalized my instinctive anti-bureaucrat and anti-authoritarian positions as plausible policy views in my mind, and started calling myself a libertarian and voting LP. But if libertarianism and/or LP spurn peace, civil liberties and anti-corporatism, I will be something else again.

  18. RedPhillips Post author

    Common Tater, you haven’t seen Obama’s test scores and grades because he hasn’t released them. But he has said himself that his undergrad grades were not great.

    “His essays?” The known examples of Obama’s writings that we have are rather underwhelming, that is why people who have seriously looked into the matter have determined that his memoir, which was praised for its literary quality, was almost certainly ghostwritten, despite Obama’s claims to the contrary.

    “Was he a legacy?” We known that his reported father went to Harvard, but not Harvard Law. We also know from his imigration papers obtained by FOIA requests that the Harvard administration was very unhappy with him. Does this buy Obama Jr. any legacy grace? I don’t know, but I doubt it.

    It is widely speculated that he had very important people advocating on his behalf.

    Given that we know he made mediocre undergrad grades from his own admission, unless his LSAT score was off the chart then he either benefitted from afirmative action and/or friends in high places, probably both. This is not at all mysterious.

  19. paulie

    It is widely speculated that he had very important people advocating on his behalf.

    And this never happens for white applicants?

    The friends in high places explanation seems more likely than affirmative action. I know many, many non-“white” people who have applied to Harvard and been rejected.

  20. RedPhillips Post author

    “I know many, many non-“white” people who have applied to Harvard and been rejected.”

    Of course paulie, because Harvard Law (did you mean Harvard or Harvard Law?) is VERY competitive. Acceptance is the exception. Rejection is the rule. This is why we know that since he had mediocre grades he had to have some help. Occam’s Razor would suggest that both affirmative action and friends in high places played a role.

    I’m no fan of affirmative action, but there is not necessarily any shame in this. If I had friends in high places I would appeal to them too. If I was black I suspect I wouldn’t decline to check the race box on the application. I’m just objecting to the insinuation that Root was off target with his insinuation. He almost certainly wasn’t.

  21. Paulie

    did you mean Harvard or Harvard Law?

    Both.

    Although, it’s true that I know more people of all backgrounds that applied to the former than the latter.

    Occam’s Razor would suggest that both affirmative action and friends in high places played a role.

    I don’t disagree. However, why would someone emphasize affirmative action rather than friends in high places when discussing the issue?

    I’m no fan of affirmative action, but there is not necessarily any shame in this. If I had friends in high places I would appeal to them too. If I was black I suspect I wouldn’t decline to check the race box on the application.

    Agreed, agreed, and, well, my experiences would be different so I don’t know what I would do.

    I’m just objecting to the insinuation that Root was off target with his insinuation. He almost certainly wasn’t.

    Maybe not entirely, and I do understand that Wayne was speaking off the cuff. Again, it’s a matter of emphasis.

  22. Robert Capozzi

    17 let, no, that is not true. Look up -gate as a suffice and you will find a long and current LONG list of ex.s.

    And, no, I don’t think sweeping the hate behind NewsletterGate under the rug will make it go away. As a radical, it seems to me highly appropriate to shine a disinfecting light on the haters cloaking themselves as Ls.

  23. George Phillies

    One might first investigate if there are sources other than tied-to-far-right-wing-hatemonger sites that corroborate thee claims about what Jones perhaps said.

  24. Michael H. Wilson

    I watched the video that is on the Blaze site and I think it is a lesson that tells me that the Libertarian Party and or Movement needs to get much better at explaining what it is exactly it is all about.

    Don’t bash this guy. Use this as an opportunity to speak out and do so loudly.

  25. Steven Berson

    @ 14 & Eric Dondero –
    I live in an apartment building with lots of Muslims in it, and I live in a neighborhood with a good number of Muslims in it, and work in and shop in other neighborhoods with Muslims and Muslim run businesses. And the vast vast majority of these all mind their own business, don’t complain about my noise (I’m an audio engineer and a musician), and are courteous hard working folks with well behaved kids. In short – they are good neighbors. So in my direct experiences to characterize one large group who acts nothing like this tiny minority within it that you are singling out is truly bigoted and hateful. You need to get out more, and you need to grow up.

  26. Tom Blanton

    Gee, I wonder how anyone could think libertarians are bigots?

    CATO’s Charles Murray could be mistaken for a bigot. Especially if you are black.

    To hear Wayne Root whine about how Obama probably got preferential treatment when admitted to college, some might think he is a bigot. When it comes to Muslims, Root could easily be taken for a bigot. The there is the problem of Root parroting rightwing talking points leaving people with the perception that there is no difference between Republicans and Libertarians.

    Then there are the Confederate libertarians like Thomas DiLorenzo that hang around Lew Rockwell’s site where articles appear that often have strains of racism – most recently the Zimmerman/Martin debacle.

    Then you have the Muslim bashers that call themselves libertarians like Dondero, Neal Boortz and Glenn Beck. Beck also bashes Mexicans and claims Obama and Van Jones are racists and commies.

    The Constitution waving libertarians draped in flags can easily be confused with rightwingers who do the same things, and they really are bigots.

    Then you have the one-percenters like the Koch boys who are presented as evil, even by some of the CATO bunch like Ed Crane. Because they are among the biggest contributors to the GOP in history, the are in fact quite evil, even if they aren’t bigots. It’s no secret that a great number of minorities believe all Republicans are bigots.

    Ron Paul has been demonized as a bigot in the media and is usually identified as a libertarian.

    Fair or not, libertarians have an image problem. It has bothered me for a long time – especially when many of these clowns are embraced by libertarian organizations. When you sleep with dogs, especially Republican dogs, you get fleas.

    LP rubes that rally behind Wayne Root don’t seem to notice they are infested with fleas. It is fortunate that Root is full of shit about bringing in new recruits. If he was half as successful as he and his cult followers claim, the LP would be overtaken with Muslim bashing rednecks that think they are victims of reverse discrimination and illegal immigration.

    Oh yeah, then there was the libertarian candidate from Texas who had a picture of himself wearing a Confederate uniform on his website – he also wrote about being unemployed, living with his mom, and enjoying porn mags.

    It’s getting so libertarians are having to carry a lot of baggage.

  27. George Phillies

    @32 Then you have the prominent Presidential candidate who gave at least one speech while standing in front of a Confederate flag, and who has not since said that he has now thought better of his action.

  28. RedPhillips Post author

    “CATO’s Charles Murray could be mistaken for a bigot.”

    So presenting objective scientific data is bigotted? As is making an accurate point about affirmative action? As is pointing out that MLK was an adulterer and once attended a Communist training school, both supposed outrages of the RP newsletters, and both certified facts? As is standing in front of a Confederate flag? (I don’t even know who Phillies is talking about.)

    What a bunch of grandstanding PC prisses. You are much less worried about actual bigotry than you are about not having your pristine PC bona fides tainted by association with wrongthinkers. It’s embarrassing. Have you no shame?

  29. Thomas L. Knapp

    Red@35,

    “So presenting objective scientific data is bigotted?”

    I’ve read The Bell Curve. Have you?

    There’s some interesting stuff in there, but lumping it all under the heading “objective scientific data” is a huge stretch, for the simple reason that the real world isn’t a sterile laboratory environment in which all factors can be controlled for.

    “Social sciences” is an oxymoron, regardless of which ideological bias is involved.

  30. Robert Capozzi

    32 tb, Murray is with AEI, not Cato, near as I can tell. Nor have I seen Crane say the Kochs are “evil.”
    Barr and Paul have in the past stood in front of Confederate flags. In Barr’s case, iirc, he said he didn’t know the group he was speaking to.

    I agree with the upshot of your comment. My theory is that many non-hater Ls tolerate the haters in part because there is confusion about what “principle” is…some associate extremist statements with being “honest” and “passionate” about “principle.” There is a deference to the words of historical saints, e.g., Lysander Spooner. Have you run across the thread of Ls who say, in effect, “Spooner said X, therefore let’s advocate nullification and secession now in 2012.” They don’t seem to realize just how “off” that sounds to the modern ear.

    Like trying to talk down a bad acid tripper, I try my best to talk them off the ledge. “Yes, I know you think you can fly, but why don’t you fly in here rather than out there.”

  31. paulie

    One might first investigate if there are sources other than tied-to-far-right-wing-hatemonger sites that corroborate thee claims about what Jones perhaps said.

    Has anyone here done that yet?

  32. paulie

    I watched the video that is on the Blaze site and I think it is a lesson that tells me that the Libertarian Party and or Movement needs to get much better at explaining what it is exactly it is all about.

    I agree, and have been saying this for many years now.

  33. paulie

    I live in an apartment building with lots of Muslims in it, and I live in a neighborhood with a good number of Muslims in it, and work in and shop in other neighborhoods with Muslims and Muslim run businesses. And the vast vast majority of these all mind their own business, don’t complain about my noise (I’m an audio engineer and a musician), and are courteous hard working folks with well behaved kids. In short – they are good neighbors. So in my direct experiences to characterize one large group who acts nothing like this tiny minority within it that you are singling out is truly bigoted and hateful. You need to get out more, and you need to grow up.

    Well said!

  34. paulie

    So presenting objective scientific data is bigotted?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Criticisms

    s is pointing out that MLK was an adulterer and once attended a Communist training school, both supposed outrages of the RP newsletters, and both certified facts?

    There’s much, more that is deeply offensive in the newsletters.

    As is standing in front of a Confederate flag? (I don’t even know who Phillies is talking about.)

    Ron Paul once again, unfortunately.

  35. paulie

    Murray is with AEI, not Cato, near as I can tell.

    Correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(author)

    Have you run across the thread of Ls who say, in effect, “Spooner said X, therefore let’s advocate nullification and secession now in 2012.”

    I don’t think it is because Spooner said it, it’s because what he said makes sense now just as it did then.

    I’m sure you know, but in case anyone reading does not, Spooner was an early, ardent and consistent abolitionist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner#Abolitionism

  36. Cynical in New York

    Meh, just another moronic rant from liberal against libertarians. We’re “racists, homophobic, hate the poor, etc” Just a different broken record in my opinion as opposed to us being called “anti-white, pro-terrorist, pro-criminal, etc” from scumbag conservatives.

    The problem I tend to see is that we let scumbag conservatives define us by cloaking themselves in libertarian clothing ala Glenn Beck, Neil Bortz, Eric Dondero, etc.

  37. Eric Dondero

    I stand corrected. Yes, Neal Boortz was the keynote speaker to the 2004 Libertarian National Convention.

    However, if memory serves, I think he might have attended or maybe had some sort of speaker’s role/panel discussion, at previous Libertarian National Conventions. 1996 seems to stick in my mind.

    L.A. radio host and pro-defense libertarian Dr. Larry Elder also was a keynoter at a past Libertarian National Convention. So, the LP is not completely dismissive of Pro-America/Pro-Military libertarians. Thankfully, there’s still a small faction of libertarians inside the LP who care about national security issues (Scott Lieberman, Bruce Cohen, Wayne Root, Shawn Levasseur LPME Chair, Brendan Kelly, Kevin Bjornsen, Dave Haase and almost the entire Alaska Libertarian Party membership, et.al.)

  38. Robert Capozzi

    P, it may make sense to you and I find you to be more reflective than the Spooner quoters I am referring to. I am talking about knee-jerk arguments from authority.

  39. Eric Dondero

    To Cynical in New York (who for some reason posts anonymously and not under his own name), I was serving on the Libertarian National Committee way back in 1995/96. I’ve been Libertarian Party since the Ed Clark campaign in 1980.

    Ain’t a fuckin’ conservative bone in my body. I’m Pro-Prostitution, Booze, Gambling, Pro-Choice on Abortion, Repeal of Seat Belt laws, lowering the Drinking Age, Abolishing the Draft, Pro-Marijuana legalization, you name it.

  40. Eric Dondero

    Yeah, Wayne Root, Bruce Cohen, Charles Murray, myself and other right-libertarians are “bigots,” alright. Bigots who are fanatically supportive of Congressman Allan West of Florida. Bigots who love Clarence Thomas. Bigots who originally wanted to see Herman Cain win the Republican nomination for President. Bigots who are still hoping that Condi Rice is Romney’s VP. Or, my personal favorite Susana Martinez, Governor of New Mexico. Or my political partner Cliff Thies’s personal favorite Governor Luis Fortuno of Puerto Rico.

  41. Eric Dondero

    Wanna talk bigotry?

    How many left-libertarians and especially Ron Paulists support Statehood for Puerto Rico?

    Estadidad para Puerto Rico is a NUMBER ONE priority for us right-libertarians.

    Go ahead, ask Ron Paul about his position on PR? Oops, someone already did. In one of the Republican debates. He would rather PR not be a part of the United States. “American imperialism,” and all. Y’know.

  42. Eric Dondero

    TO: Jill Pyeatt

    When I was active with the Libertarian Party of Florida in the 1980s, the Patriot movement was super strong, particularly in the South, Georgia, South Carolina. We’d often have Patriot Movement speakers at LPF conventions.

    There was even talk back then in LP newsletters of joining forces with the Patriot/Anti-Tax movement, and merging the Libertarian Party with the Patriot Party.

    So, it is utterly shocking for an old-timer Libertarian Party activist like me, to hear someone, anyone, especially a Newbie to our movement like you, say something to the affect that “Patriots are not Libertarians.”

    YOH PYEATT, READ UP ON YOUR LIBERTARIAN PARTY HISTORY BEFORE YOU START SPOUTING OFF NONSENSE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

  43. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    Dondero: Estadidad para Puerto Rico is a NUMBER ONE priority for us right-libertarians.

    Then how come this is the first I ever heard of Puerto Rico statehood from any right-libertarian?

    If it’s their NUMBER ONE issue, you’d think Root (and all the others) would talk about it more than anything else on all his many media appearances.

    Your claim is a joke, just like you.

    Besides, the people of Puerto Rico don’t want statehood. They keep voting it down. Do you right-libertarians want to forcestatehood on Puerto Rico?

  44. Eric Dondero

    To #50, firstly why don’t you post under your name? Why anonymous, with some silly bogus name?

    Secondly, I can’t speak for Wayne Root. But I can speak for Eric Dondero Rittberg of Angleton, Texas 979-848-4575.

    And as a spokesman for Eric, I would urge you to go to his website LibertarianRepublican.net and hit the Google Search on the sidebar. Type in Puerto Rico Statehood.

    I guarantee you, you will see at least 5 to 6 articles from us libertarian Republicans advocating Statehood.

  45. Eric Dondero

    Mr. Anonymous at #50 doesn’t tell the whole story on Puerto Rico Statehood.

    Yes, the Puerto Ricans vote it down each time – about three times in the last two decades.

    HOWEVER! They vote overwhelmingly for continuance of the Commonwealth status arrangment.

    Typical vote on the PR plebescites goes something like this:

    51% – Commonwealth
    47% – Statehood
    2% – Independence

    Oh, and that 2% is the leftist “anti-imperialist” Ron Paul position btw. That’s probably a clue why it is Ron Paul FINISHED BEHIND NOBODY FRED KARGER IN THE RECENT PUERTO RICO GOP PRIMARY IN 5TH PLACE!!!

  46. Paulie

    P, it may make sense to you and I find you to be more reflective than the Spooner quoters I am referring to. I am talking about knee-jerk arguments from authority.

    Can you cite any examples of what you are referring to here?

  47. Thomas L. Knapp

    I have no real opinion on Puerto Rico statehood (except that I’d rather see all states abolished).

    I do, however, have a question about those libertarians who make common cause with the right: What do your “English only/English as official language” allies on the right think about adding three million Spanish-speakers to the roster?

  48. Gene Berkman

    Best line in the Blaze article:
    “The smoldering, anti-capitalism diatribe concluded with Jones asking the audience to purchase his book: “Give me and my book another round of applause! On sale now!””

    And the list of sponsors of the “for the 99%” rally looked like the list of sponsors of a trade show.

    Guess they have absorbed capitalist culture even if they oppose the system.

  49. Obviousman

    Can we have John Stewart moderate a debate between Van Dondero and Eric Jones, or whatever combination of that twin nonsense is most appealing to the stab-oneself-with-scissors crowd?

  50. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    Dondero: I can’t speak for Wayne Root.

    But that’s exactly what you did.

    You spoke for all right-libertarians when you wrote @48: Estadidad para Puerto Rico is a NUMBER ONE priority for us right-libertarians.

    And if there was any doubt about who you considered a right-libertarian, you’d written @47: Wayne Root, Bruce Cohen, Charles Murray, myself and other right-libertarians…

    You said Puerto Rican statehood was the NUMBER ONE priority for ALL right-libertarians.

    A pretty foolish and sweeping statement, to speak for ALL right-libertarians. But that’s just what you did.

  51. paulie

    not appropriate, as these were private dialogs with revisionist Ls.

    Fair enough.

    But in my experience, while I’ve seen people cite Spooner, I’ve never seen anyone say that a position is correct only because Spooner held it.

    And the list of sponsors of the “for the 99%” rally looked like the list of sponsors of a trade show.

    Guess they have absorbed capitalist culture even if they oppose the system.

    Yep, they live in the real world that actually exists now, regardless of what changes they would ideally like to see in that world. Much like radical libertarians who run for political offices that they ultimately would like to eliminate.

    Can we have John Stewart moderate a debate between Van Dondero and Eric Jones, or whatever combination of that twin nonsense is most appealing to the stab-oneself-with-scissors crowd?

    Maybe we could make it a Mexican wrestling match, with masks and everything. Mucho Libre!

  52. paulie

    A pretty foolish and sweeping statement, to speak for ALL right-libertarians. But that’s just what you did.

    No way! That would be completely out of character for ED to make a foolish and sweeping statement.

  53. paulie

    Bigots who are fanatically supportive of Congressman Allan West of Florida. Bigots who love Clarence Thomas. Bigots who originally wanted to see Herman Cain win the Republican nomination for President. Bigots who are still hoping that Condi Rice is Romney’s VP.

    So, supporting Republican conservatives is proof that ED is a libertarian “without a conservative bone in his body”? OK.

    As for bigots, I’ve known some (so called) Christian bigots who don’t like Jews very much but love Israel. They want all the Jews to move to Israel and get nuked in the battle of Armageddon, or convert to what they consider to be Christianity. I’ve also known some white racists who are bigoted against blacks and middle easterners, but make common cause with black and middle eastern muslims in hating Jews and/or Israel. There are many other examples of such things.

  54. paulie

    To Cynical in New York (who for some reason posts anonymously and not under his own name),

    Writing anonymously is a time honored tradition. The founders of the US, among many others, often wrote anonymously.

    I was serving on the Libertarian National Committee way back in 1995/96. I’ve been Libertarian Party since the Ed Clark campaign in 1980.

    I think Mr. ED means 1985/6. As far as I know he was out of the LP, openly renouncing the LP, and calling for the destruction of the LP from 1989 to 2003/4, which he kind of glosses over when he says he’s been LP since 1980. In reality, he was active in the LP during the middle and late 1980s, left the party in a huff and openly sought its destruction throughout the 1990s and early 2000s, came back briefly in 2004 to work with Gary Nolan and left again promptly to start (the oxymoronic) Libertarians for (the moronic) Bush. He came back again to work with some local candidates and Wayne Root, while also stumping for various allegedly libertarian Republicans and Joe Lieberman, but had already made plans for the partial birth abortion known as “Libertarians for Giuliani”
    before ultimately voting for McCain.

    When was the last time Dondero actually voted for a Libertarian in a race that a Republican was also in? He can answer if he wants. My guess is probably 1988.

    From: Eric Dondero, INTERNET:ericdondero@yahoo.com
    To: Steve Dasbach, SteveDasbach
    Date: 4/30/01 5:04 PM
    RE: Re: [RLC-National] The LP in Crisis … again, ho hum.

    “We could deal them a fatal blow.” … Michael, Michael, Michael??? … “Could.” That is the subjunctive form of the verb “can.” … Why would you use “could.” … Please reform your comments. The proper verbage which should be utilized in this instance is “must,” as in “we must deal the Libertarian Party a fatal blow.” … We are now in a state of all-out war with the LP. Though it could be argued that we, Chuck, a couple others and I, might have provoked them. They have declared war on the Republican Party with this latest salvo. … It’s time for the weak of heart amongst us, (don’t read these following names – Phil Blumel, Paul Jacob, that guy in New Jersey who is always talking about “cooperating with LPers”), to step aside. … The bombastic corps will now lead. We need to fatally strike the LP where it hurts. They are the enemy. Much more so than the Democrats or Moderate Republicans. … Let’s kick their asses, Braveheart style!

    Since he has kind of sort of returned to the LP in 2003/4, he takes turns trying to wreck the LP from inside and from outside. He always ends up voting Republican though – Bush, McCain, etc. In fact I do not know of any election since 1988 when ED backed a Libertarian over a Republican. He does pay LP dues from time to time, but for the most part his association with the LP consists mainly of A) petitioning for a living (nothing wrong with that; I do that myself B) claiming the libertarian label for various non-libertarian Republicans C) trying to convince Libertarians to support Republicans D) thumping his chest and carrying on about what a great Libertarian he is.

    While ED does still hold some libertarian views, he is mainly a single issue pro-war voter. In his mind that issue trumps all others:

    http://www.smallgov.org/?p=355#comment-4549

    # Eric Dondero Says:
    September 9th, 2006 at 9:44 pm

    Same feeling many of us have with Joe Lieberman.

    He’s mostly wrong on a whole slew of social and economic matters. But he is RIGHT ON on the War in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    That’s why True libertarians support him.

  55. paulie

    Ain’t a fuckin’ conservative bone in my body. I’m Pro-Prostitution, Booze, Gambling, Pro-Choice on Abortion, Repeal of Seat Belt laws, lowering the Drinking Age, Abolishing the Draft, Pro-Marijuana legalization, you name it.

    Hopefully someone will be around to copy and paste that statement on all the conservative Republican sites Mr. ED posts on all the time every time he shows up.

    As for not having a conservative bone in his body, aside from the rather obvious Islamophobia,

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/07/libertarians-reach-out-to-gay-lesbian-democrats-picketing-dnc-fundraiser/comment-page-1/#comment-75582

    Problem is, 99% of these LGBTers are affirmative action/special rights supporters. What happens when they learn that we Libertarians don’t wish to treat them any more specially than anyone else?

    Better for Libertarians to reach out to religious folk, like the churches, who are being forced by government to perform Gay Marriage ceremonies, all over New England and other regions of the country. That’s a principled Libertarian stance, and one we can gain genuine adherents on.

    He told this same lie to thousands of voters while getting signatures against marriage equality.

    Yes, Neal Boortz was the keynote speaker to the 2004 Libertarian National Convention.

    However, if memory serves, I think he might have attended or maybe had some sort of speaker’s role/panel discussion, at previous Libertarian National Conventions. 1996 seems to stick in my mind.

    L.A. radio host and pro-defense (sic) libertarian Dr. Larry Elder also was a keynoter at a past Libertarian National Convention.

    Yes, that is indeed one of the main problems with the LP and the LM as a whole.

  56. Kimberly Wilder

    Mission accomplished for Van Jones!

    He is a phony and an Obama-operative.

    He spewed things about racism, and then some other -isms, and pretended to speak on behalf of liberals, to get Libertarians riled up against liberals.

    Overall, he just got everyone doubting themselves, and angry at everyone they should be working with. His idea got 64 wild, confused, defensive, offensive and/or angry comments.

    That’s how folks in the power structure do it! He probably got his strategy from some psychological ops manual.

    Anyway, here is Green Party candidate Roseanne Barr’s Twitter-response to Van Jones:

    “van jones is wrong about so many things-he is severely compromised by Obama and the left-but-he sure is a handsome man-”

    Here is my response:

    Don’t worry about Van Jones. Worry about being Strip-Searched!

  57. Jill Pyeatt

    Thanks for the info about Eric Dondero, Paulie. I don’t have the stomach for him this week. After he read so much into my relatively mild comment at #3 above, I just didn’t see any reason to continue talking to such an irrational person..

    His comment about wanting the war criminal Condi Rice as Romney’s vp pick surely excludes him as a Libertarian to any reasonable Libertarian’s view. What a sad and odd man he is.

  58. ad hoc

    I think it was paulie that got pwned, getting roped into spending that much time responding to Error Donderror.

  59. Marc Montoni

    There are kernels of truth in the statement that many libertarians are bigots. Just as there are “right-leaning” bigots who disdain Muslims, other brown people, gays, hippies, and stoners, there are also “left-leaning” bigots who claim to be libertarian but who are anti-Jew, anti-male, heterophobic, and so on.

    Of course, both types love to excuse their own behavior and attempt to project their fetid views onto others.

    In my view, being a bigot of either stripe means you’re no libertarian at all.

  60. paulie

    AH@68 You may be right.

    MM@69 Libertarians are all individuals, so certainly some are bigots; but anyone who claims that all libertarians are bigots is just being bigoted against libertarians.

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