RJ Harris Ends Campaign for LP Presidential Nomination

This was posted on RJ Harris’ facebook account tonight:

Dear Friends and Supporters:

With regret I must report that my campaign has not raised the funds necessary to wage a national campaign for president any longer. Initially it was my belief that we needed a back up candidate to Ron Paul in case he did not win the GOP nomination. However, with Gov. Johnson joining the LP nomination this mission will have to fall to either him or Mr. Lee Wrights now and I wish them both the very best. With Ron Paul leaving the Congress we MUST provide someone to carry on his message there THIS cycle. All along many of you have asked me to run for Congress in 2012 with exactly that concern in mind. So now with the April 13th filing deadline looming this Friday, I am happy to report that I will run, once again, for Oklahoma’s 4th District Congressional Seat. If you are in support of this action then please make the most generous donation you can beginning tonight at midnight so that we can pay the filing fees and seed this campaign to continue the Liberty Message in the Congress. Time is critical so please show your support beginning tonight. For Liberty.

– RJ Harris

115 thoughts on “RJ Harris Ends Campaign for LP Presidential Nomination

  1. Andy

    Ugggg! Now I don’t have anyone to cast a vote for if I attend the LP National Convention in Las Vegas. I endorsed RJ Harris for the Libertarian Party’s Presidential nomination out of the list of announced candidates.

    I guess now if I attend I’ll either cast a write in vote for somebody that’s not even seeking the nomination or vote for NOTA (None of the Above).

  2. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt // Apr 12, 2012 at 1:28 am

    Have you looked at all the candidates, and decided you can’t support any of them?”

    Yes I have. Hopefully somebody else will get in the race. Either that or it’s write in somebody who’s not seeking the nomination or vote for None of the Above.

  3. Charles Lupton

    @7 – Not officially, but he is no longer campaigning and did not attend the debate. I have contact with him through a fellow LP member and friend of his and will find out.

  4. NewFederalist

    Andy @3… you could really shake things up by voting for Ed Clark. I guess he’s going to be there since it is the big 40th. He might become the equivalent of NOTA with a face!

  5. ATBAFT

    Andy, if you show up in Vegas you’ll have one certain impact – another $94 in the pocket of a Party that can’t produce a minimally acceptable (to you, at least) candidate for president.

  6. Steven Berson

    @ 10 – from my understanding based on RJ’s posts – he will indeed be running as an independent.

  7. Andy

    “ATBAFT // Apr 12, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Andy, if you show up in Vegas you’ll have one certain impact – another $94 in the pocket of a Party that can’t produce a minimally acceptable (to you, at least) candidate for president.”

    Yep.

  8. John Jay Myers

    I met RJ personally for the first time last weekend, great guy. I wish him the best at whatever he chooses to do.

    The guy is a rock in this movement and hopefully he will continue to have some involvement with the Libertarian Party.

  9. Darryl W. Perry

    @12 – I hope he will, I was not impressed by his reasoning for running in the GOP in 2010. To paraphrase, he claims the OKLP suggested he run as a Republican because it would increase the chances of him getting elected and he could more easily get the libertarian message to voters.

    I still don’t understand how you get the libertarian message to voters as a candidate who is not on the general election ballot.

  10. Charles Lupton

    @10 & 12, The LP did not make the ballot in OK so he will be filing to run as an (I). I have already donated to his campaign and encourage others to do so as well.

  11. Ad Hoc

    I hadn’t heard of Still dropping out.

    I do know that Jim Burns is still running, and George Phillies says that Roger Gary endorsed Lee Wrights over email quite some time ago, although I still have not seen any formal announcement.

    I have not heard of any other candidates dropping their bids, although of course it’s possible I just missed it.

  12. ctomp

    So, going into Vegas, we have Wrights, Johnson, Person & Burns. It’s thinned out quite a bit. Anybody think it will go to a second ballot?

  13. Ad Hoc

    I also have not heard of any of the following dropping out (to the extent that they were in at all):

    Scott Keller
    Robert Milnes
    Leroy Saunders
    Mosheh Thezion
    Dean Tucker
    Dave Redick

  14. Darryl W. Perry

    Lee Wrights, Jim Burns, Leroy Saunders, Mosheh Thezion & Joy Waymire have all responded to my questionnaire which will be printed and available for delegates.

  15. Charles Lupton

    Roger and Wrights are long time friends. Roger is practical and will likely support the eventual nominee(no matter who it is and has my respect), but I expect his delegate vote will go to Wrights. Hadn’t heard of Keller’s drop.

  16. Andy

    This race for the LP presidential nomination is shaping up to be the worst since I’ve been in the party (which is since 1996).

  17. Richard Winger

    We still don’t know if the Oklahoma Libertarian Party will be on the ballot. Next week the party will file a brief to have the law declared unconstitutional. The state is cooperating and agrees the lawsuit should be expedited.

    I want to personally thank R. J. Harris for running for Congress, which I presume will be as an independent. Assuming he files as an independent and pays the filing fee, he will be on the November ballot for sure as an independent. If the Libertarian Party gets on the ballot and has a nominating convention, probably the relief would include letting him run as a Libertarian (assuming the party nominates him in convention, which I am sure it would do).

    I personally am indebted to R. J. Harris, because when the hearing in Oklahoma City went on longer than expected, and our attorney couldn’t drive me back to Tulsa for my plane, R. J. did that for me, on extremely short notice. I had been planning to vote for him on the first ballot in Las Vegas.

  18. Jill Pyeatt

    RW @ 31: “I personally am indebted to R. J. Harris, because when the hearing in Oklahoma City went on longer than expected, and our attorney couldn’t drive me back to Tulsa for my plane, R. J. did that for me, on extremely short notice.”

    Mr. Harris does seem like a great guy, and I’m sorry I won’t get to meet him. I wish him luck in his political endeavors in the future.

  19. Charles Lupton

    As I’ve said, I’m personally supporting his run for Congress. I’m encouraging other to do the same. R.J. is still likely to be going to the NatCon and we’ll all have a chance to meet him there.

  20. paulie

    This race for the LP presidential nomination is shaping up to be the worst since I’ve been in the party (which is since 1996).

    At a minimum, I think it’s better than 2008.

  21. Andy

    LOL! 2008 was better than this, and I thought that 2008 was bad.

    1996, 2000, and 2004 were much better.

  22. Kevin Knedler

    JJM @ # 27
    I assume the Texas meeting and stage was after the Ohio Convention on March 30 to April 1.
    Mr. Still dropped out of the Sunday debate about an hour before it started. He still got 9% of the straw poll vote. So we had Mr. Wrights vs Mr. Johnson.

  23. Trent Hill Post author

    Gary Johnson and Wrights are the only real competitors. I can see this one ending on 1st, maybe 2nd, ballot.

  24. paulie

    LOL! 2008 was better than this, and I thought that 2008 was bad.

    I think Johnson is better than Barr in many ways. In the general scheme ex-governor > ex-US Rep. He has a much better record as an elected politician from the liberty standpoint, he joined the LP briefly back in the 1990s (or continuously since then depending on how you count it), and he has been actively going to state conventions and debating other candidates for the nomination, among other things. On the minus side, both Barr and Johnson have some issue weaknesses, but I think Barr’s were worse than Johnson’s. I think Johnson understands how to handle Ron Paul and Ron Paul supporters better than Barr did.

    As for Wrights, while his resume is not that impressive, he is a good writer and right on on the issues. He is not waiting until the last couple of months before the convention to declare and build a campaign, which was my biggest problem with the Ruwart campaign, and he has enough money to get to a lot of state conventions, which was our biggest problem with the Kubby campaign. Although Kubby’s legal problems were all 100% solved before the national convention, there were still rumors floating around; Wrights does not have that problem. And although Kubby is usually in better health than an average healthy person, his long term health issues combined with a bad impression created by a badly timed flu fueled concerns about his health – again, a problem Wrights does not have as far as I know. Wrights has become a better public speaker during the course of the campaign. His videos are not as bad as our clumsy first attempts with Kubby learning to use the telemprompter. I’m not going to get into character and personality questions, although I’m guessing Andy will. Overall I would say Kubby and Ruwart both went into the campaign with more impressive background than Wrights, but Wrights has run a better campaign than either of them did last time.

    As for the other candidates I don’t think Root, Phillies et al are analagous in those same ways to Person, Still and other candidates from this time, so I won’t try to make comparisons there.

  25. Charles Lupton

    @36 It happened April 7th. Still dropped during his closing remarks in grand fashion not missing the opportunity to take another swipe at Gov. Johnson before he quit.

  26. paulie

    Gary Johnson and Wrights are the only real competitors. I can see this one ending on 1st, maybe 2nd, ballot.

    Provided no additional candidates step forward I agree. Ventura could possibly make it competitive, and Paul would obviously take it easily, but I don’t think either will run – tho Ventura is more likely.

  27. Andy

    Paulie said: “I’m not going to get into character and personality questions,”

    Character and personality questions are hugely important, and Wrights is lacking in both of these important criteria. He’s also got an exaggerated resume (the truth is pathetic, which is why he pads it), he’s a poor public speaker, he’s got little to no following, he’s raised very little money (just barely enough to make it to some state conventions doesn’t cut it), he’s not a good political strategist, and I could list more reasons but I’ve listed more than enough already.

    If this is the best the Libertarian Party can come up with then maybe the party deserves to fail.

    Yes, 2008 was better than this, and I thought that 2008 was a weak field. There were Michael Jingozian and George Phillies, who at least ran something that resembled a real campaign. Mary Ruwart got in the race late but at least she’s got more accomplishments and more of a following than her boy toy, Wrights. Steve Kubby’s campaign didn’t live up to what it could have been, but he was a better speaker and had more real world accomplishments than Wrights. I don’t think much of Bob Barr but he had something resembling a real campaign when he got in the race.

    In 2008 I voted for Mary Ruwart and Steve Kubby. I could have possibly voted for Michael Jingozian or even Christine Smith. Now there is nobody for whom I can cast a vote.

    2004 was much better with Aaron Russo, Gary Nolan, and Michael Badnarik, all 3 of whom I could have supported, and I did support Badnarik after he became the nominee.

    1996 and 2000 had the candidate who just may have been the best Libertarian Party candidate so far in Harry Browne, and most of the other candidates were better than the people running now. I’d certainly vote for Barry Hess or Don Gorman or Jacbo Hornberger over anyone who is in the race for the LP nomination right now.

  28. NewFederalist

    Paulie… why do you think Ventura is even in the mix? I haven’t heard a thing about him.

  29. Trent Hill Post author

    Johnson definitely handles Ron Paul supporters better than Barr did. He’ll collect 90% of Ron Paul third party voters this time around. Last time it was maybe 30% for Barr.

  30. Trent Hill Post author

    NewFederalist–because he continually suggests he MIGHT, MAYBE, POSSIBLY, run for President. To my knowledge, he’s never even mentioned the LP.

  31. paulie

    why do you think Ventura is even in the mix? I haven’t heard a thing about him.

    He made inquiries via the Alex Jones show and Mark Hinkle before going to Mexico for the winter, as he does every year now. If he remembers to come back a few weeks early this year (as opposed to the usual Memorial Day) and makes a stop in Vegas on the correct dates he might still be a late entry.

  32. paulie

    because he continually suggests he MIGHT, MAYBE, POSSIBLY, run for President. To my knowledge, he’s never even mentioned the LP.

    He did specifically mention a possible LP run on Alex Jones, which Jones then discussed with Hinkle on air in a later show, Jones put them in touch, and Ventura followed up in a private phone conversation with Mark Hinkle to find out the details of what’s involved.

    Nothing has been done since then to my knowledge, but then again Ventura customarily takes this time of year off from the US and from media, email and cell phones as well as I understand it. So if he remembers to get to the Vegas convention and remembers the place and time correctly it may still be on.

  33. paulie

    Johnson definitely handles Ron Paul supporters better than Barr did. He’ll collect 90% of Ron Paul third party voters this time around. Last time it was maybe 30% for Barr.

    Assuming your numbers are correct, Johnson would not get much more than a million votes, unless he draws significant non-LP, non-Ron Paul support.

    If 30% already voted for Barr, Johnson’s vote total would not be more than 3x Barr’s, and that’s even if all of Barr’s votes came from Ron Paul supporters, which they did not.

  34. Jeremy C. Young

    I think this might be a race where you have a relatively smooth coronation for the Presidential nomination, and a barnburner of a race for the VP slot. I think a lot of delegates may want what Johnson brings in terms of media presence and name recognition, but may want to balance him with Wrights as a true-blue Libertarian to ensure he will stay true to the message. Johnson, on the other hand, has said he wants a rich guy with high name recognition as his VP. It’s unclear whether he’s got someone in mind or is just hoping someone will drop in his lap, but either way that person is going to be a very late entrant and isn’t going to have a lot of goodwill at the convention. So I think there’s a real possibility that Wrights could fight his way onto the ticket in the #2 slot over Johnson’s protests.

  35. paulie

    Character and personality questions are hugely important, and Wrights is lacking in both of these important criteria. He’s also got an exaggerated resume (the truth is pathetic, which is why he pads it)

    If you don’t provide details you will not convince anyone here on any of that.

    he’s a poor public speaker

    He’s gotten better.

    he’s got little to no following

    I would not say that is true, if you mean likely LP delegates he seems to have a fair sized following including many IPR regular commenters. Roughly speaking it is the people that supported Kubby and/or Ruwart last time, with a few exceptions. It also includes some of the Phillies supporters, including Phillies himself.

    However, some of those people have left the LP since then or are less likely to be delegates now, and many also find Johnson to be less bad than Barr, so that may cut in to Wrights’ likely support base.

    I would say that you are correct that he does not have much non-LP following.

    There are some non-LP readers of Liberty for All and Rational Review, facebook friends and the like, but overall that is a pretty limited group of people.

    he’s raised very little money (just barely enough to make it to some state conventions doesn’t cut it),

    Enough to make it to state conventions was better than what we could do with Kubby, and running early enough to make it to many of them is better than what the Ruwart campaign managed. It may or may not offset what the three did respectively prior to running for president, on which I rate Kubby and Ruwart as having more resume than Wrights.

    In 2008 I voted for Mary Ruwart and Steve Kubby

    Me too

    I could have possibly voted for Michael Jingozian or even Christine Smith.

    Not me.

    Now there is nobody for whom I can cast a vote.

    I could vote for either Johnson or Wrights, although I haven’t decided which. I have some problems with both and some things I like about both. I think Johnson is clearly better than Barr and I think Wrights is better in some ways than Kubby and Ruwart and worse in some ways (both detailed above).

    I don’t rate Wrights as likely to beat Johnson, so which way I vote may not matter that much.

    I rate both Wrights and Johnson as better than NOTA.

    I think Johnson will probably win and that he will probably be a better candidate than Barr.

  36. paulie

    I think this might be a race where you have a relatively smooth coronation for the Presidential nomination, and a barnburner of a race for the VP slot. I think a lot of delegates may want what Johnson brings in terms of media presence and name recognition, but may want to balance him with Wrights as a true-blue Libertarian to ensure he will stay true to the message. Johnson, on the other hand, has said he wants a rich guy with high name recognition as his VP. It’s unclear whether he’s got someone in mind or is just hoping someone will drop in his lap, but either way that person is going to be a very late entrant and isn’t going to have a lot of goodwill at the convention. So I think there’s a real possibility that Wrights could fight his way onto the ticket in the #2 slot over Johnson’s protests.

    You may be right.

    However, I still have a hard time seeing that happening if someone actually does offer to spend millions of his or her own money as a VP candidate.

    If it is Root versus Wrights it could certainly get interesting.

  37. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Character and personality questions are hugely important”

    Yes, they are — for endorsers/slammers as well as for candidates.

    “If you don’t provide details you will not convince anyone here on any of that.”

    Oh, please don’t throw Wrights in the briar patch, Paulie!

    Andy being against Wrights means more support for Wrights.

    Andy saying why he’s against Wrights, even more so.

    “If 30% [of Ron Paul supporters] voted for Barr”

    I’d be surprised if it was anywhere close to that much.

    My guess — and yes, it’s just a guess — is that Ron Paul’s 2008 support fell out something like this:

    5% wrote in Paul whether it got counted or not.

    5% voted for Baldwin because they heard that Paul endorsed him

    5% voted for Barr because they’d heard the word “libertarian” and didn’t know that Barr wasn’t one or about his grandstanding fiasco versus Paul with the press conference thing, etc.

    5% said fuck it and didn’t vote.

    50% voted for McCain because Obama had to be stopped

    30% voted for Obama because they thought he at least might tone down the militarism.

  38. Jeremy C. Young

    Paulie @50, I think that depends on whether the candidate actually seems likely to spend the money, or is just shooting his mouth off. David Koch said it and meant it, but I seem to remember that Richard Campagna made that claim and then reneged on it when it mattered. People may be wary of that sort of gambit.

  39. paulie

    Oh, please don’t throw Wrights in the briar patch, Paulie!

    Andy being against Wrights means more support for Wrights.

    Andy saying why he’s against Wrights, even more so.

    You might be right.

    Let’s see if Andy makes his case.

    I’d be surprised if it was anywhere close to that much.

    My guess — and yes, it’s just a guess — is that Ron Paul’s 2008 support fell out something like this:

    5% wrote in Paul whether it got counted or not.

    5% voted for Baldwin because they heard that Paul endorsed him

    5% voted for Barr because they’d heard the word “libertarian” and didn’t know that Barr wasn’t one or about his grandstanding fiasco versus Paul with the press conference thing, etc.

    5% said fuck it and didn’t vote.

    50% voted for McCain because Obama had to be stopped

    30% voted for Obama because they thought he at least might tone down the militarism.

    However, recall Trent said 30% of Ron Paul’s third party voters, which eliminates your 50, 30 and 5 from the mix.

    Your 5% is roughly 30% of the remainder.

  40. paulie

    50% voted for McCain because Obama had to be stopped

    30% voted for Obama because they thought he at least might tone down the militarism.

    I’m thinking flip those around. Maybe that’s just me.

  41. paulie

    JCY 52

    Both Koch and Campagna got the nominations. I’m not sure enough delegates will know and care enough about 2004 to dismiss another Campagna style promise, but even if they do, if Johnson comes forward with someone that is a well-known public figure and is actually a multi-millionaire or billionaire that can be quite easily verifiable.

    Campagna had phantom promises of contributions, not demonstrated personal wealth or name recognition.

    And even then, he prevailed over what I thought was a clearly better candidate.

  42. George Whitfield

    I want to thank RJ Harris for running for the LP Presidential nomination. I supported him in that campaign and wish him the best in the Congressional race. I am sorry that I will be unable to attend the National Convention in Las Vegas because of recent increased job responsibilities and some upcoming moves of our residence and office. I am still solidly behind the Libertarian Party and look forward to helping our candidates as much as I can on through November.

  43. JT

    Very intelligent move by Harris. Most of the other candidates for the nomination should follow suit.

  44. Andy

    Thomas Knapp said: “Yes, they are — for endorsers/slammers as well as for candidates.”

    There’s nothing wrong with my character. The same can’t be said of Wrights, who is a known backstabber and liar.

    I’ll put my record and character up against Wrights any day.

  45. JT

    Andy: “I could have possibly voted for Michael Jingozian or even Christine Smith.”

    I thought Jingozian was woefully lacking in his presentation and understanding. Smith just seemed like a belligerent nut to me.

    Andy: “1996 and 2000 had the candidate who just may have been the best Libertarian Party candidate so far in Harry Browne, and most of the other candidates were better than the people running now.”

    Not “may have been.” There’s no Libertarian candidate I know of who wrote or spoke about liberty as excellently as he did, period. And if there’s any Libertarian who was responsible for bringing more people into the LP than he was, I’d like to know who (I’m not talking about registering voters; I’m talking about bringing in new members and activists). Even though he was very disappointed with the vote totals he received, he continued to publicly praise the LP and encourage people to join it. Don’t hold your breath waiting for another HB.

  46. Andy

    “but may want to balance him with Wrights as a true-blue Libertarian to ensure he will stay true to the message.”

    Wrights is not a true blue Libertarian, he’s a fraud. He’s a moocher and loser who initiates fraud in his personal life.

  47. Andy

    Paulie said: “I would not say that is true, if you mean likely LP delegates he seems to have a fair sized following including many IPR regular commenters.”

    Oh come on, this is absurd. Most of the public doesn’t know who this guy is (which is actually a good thing). He doesn’t have a cult following either. He’s a nobody.

  48. JT

    Paulie: “Which ones do you think should not?”

    I thought I’d get this question. Wrights shouldn’t. He seems to be the popular candidate of choice to try to defeat Johnson. I can’t think of anyone else who shouldn’t drop out, though there may be one (I think Harris was probably the best of the rest). I think it’s boring to have many rounds of balloting to eliminate a bunch of candidates who barely have any support one by one.

  49. paulie

    Andy – read what you respond to. I said if you mean likely LP delegates he seems to have a fair sized following including many IPR regular commenters.

    You said Most of the public which is a completely different criterion.

  50. paulie

    There’s nothing wrong with my character. The same can’t be said of Wrights, who is a known backstabber and liar.

    I’ll put my record and character up against Wrights any day.

    Go ahead and do that then. If you are going to say that you pretty much have to give the specifics or you are not exactly being persuasive.

  51. Oranje Mike

    @Andy

    Can you back up any of your Wrights claims with facts? You’re the only one saying these things. Please clarify. You come off like another guy that was fired by Dr. Paul and have an axe to grind.

  52. paulie

    I thought Jingozian was woefully lacking in his presentation and understanding. Smith just seemed like a belligerent nut to me.

    Yep. She also was all over the map ideologically before she decided to be the “more radical than thou” one.

  53. paulie

    Wrights is not a true blue Libertarian, he’s a fraud.

    True blue libertarian refers to his ideology, which is in fact plumb line, radical, hardcore (or whatever term you want to use) libertarian. That is a verifiable fact that anyone can determine for themselves by looking at his published articles. If he ever wrote anything in those that I disagree with, I can’t think of what it was off the top of my head. He expressed himself well in those and whether he is a fraud based on character and personality issues or not is a separate question. But since you bring it up:


    He’s a moocher and loser who initiates fraud in his personal life.

    If you don’t explain the specifics of that you are not being persuasive to the people who are reading this.

    Someone could say the same about you, about me, or about anyone else here or elsewhere. It may or may not be true, but how is anyone supposed to judge whether it is or not if you don’t provide specifics?

  54. paulie

    Can you back up any of your Wrights claims with facts?

    I’ve heard Andy make his case at great length, so I know he is not just making the vague statements he has made out of thin air with no specifics, but I am not interested in making his case here for him and I agree that if he doesn’t make it himself that does not make him look good to say what he has said thus far. I also know that Andy has a lot of things to do and should probably not be spending the time to write a long “j’accuse” screed against Lee, but I have a feeling that one may be forthcoming anyway.


    You’re the only one saying these things.

    He’s not the only one, but again I’m not interested in making the case for Andy. He’ll either make it himself, or not.

  55. Austin Battenberg

    @51

    I don’t know the percentage of the Ron Paul vote in 2008, but I can guarantee you that I HIGHLY doubt that McCain got 50% of us.

    I voted for Bob Barr because I am a libertarian party member, and thought he was a better candidate then Chuck Baldwin. This was despite his record and despite what happened to Ron Pauls third party get together. In retrospect I regret voting for him because of his recent endorsement of Gingrich, but there really wasn’t a good option in 08. Maybe even Nader would have been a better choice. Ultimately it doesn’t matter, but I just wanted to clarify that most Ron Paul supporters WILL NOT vote for Romney, just like they didn’t vote for McCain. In fact, I would bet that more Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama then McCain in 08, but I can’t say for certain.

    Oh, and while Johnson is MUCH better then Barr, I am a regular at the Daily Paul, and most people there trust him about as much as they trust most other politicians. Especially since Johnson has made it clear he is not a true non-interventionist. Unlike the Fair Tax which seems to make most LP members squirm with Johnson, among Ron Paul supporters, if you don’t have a true non-interventionist foreign policy, then you probably don’t have their vote. We take that stuff really seriously. It was the reason why I took interest with Ron Paul to begin with, because I was so anti-war and liberal.

    That said, unlike my fellow Ron Paul supporters, I will likely vote for whoever the LP nominates in November if Paul does not run third party.

  56. Ken Moellman

    On-topic: RJ is a class act and I think he’ll be even more effective in the Congressional race at spreading the message of liberty to people in his part of the country.

    Off-topic:

    To me, it’s ironic that Republicans are looking for a Reagan, while Libertarians are searching for another Browne. You can’t just “wish upon a star” and expect results. Just like the Republicans, you get a Romney instead of a Reagan.

    We need to all learn to be better communicators. We all need to be cordial, informed, intelligent, caring people who try to convince people to join with us, rather than berate them.

    Harry Browne brought me to the LP in 1998. Michael Cloud helped — though many have bashed him in the past and basically ran him off.

    Ron Paul brought me back into politics in 2005, after a multi-year break. Many C4Lers are small-L libertarians. Yet, many LPers bash Ron Paul, for one reason or another.

    Rather than running people off, or bashing people, we need to be educating people. Convincing people. Welcoming people. We can’t win the battle for liberty with a 2% quadrennial result.

    I firmly believe this year provides a once-in-a-generation opportunity to grow the party, significantly, due to the buffoonery of the Old Parties. It’s 1968 again for the Republicans, who are in full-fledged “purge” mode. Meanwhile, the Democrats are self-destructing on economic policy and a failure to protect civil liberties.

    Today, we’re too small to be able to generate an opportunity on the level that, from my perspective, is about to be handed to us. To let that slip by because these folks only are 80/80s on the Nolan Chart is self-defeating.

  57. Thomas L. Knapp

    Ken @72,

    “many have bashed [Michael Cloud] in the past and basically ran him off”

    True, if by “ran him off” you mean “published a full-page article by him in the latest LP News and scheduled him as the keynote speaker for the 2012 Libertarian National Convention.”

    If you meant something else, maybe not so much.

  58. Paulie

    JT

    I thought I’d get this question. Wrights shouldn’t (withdraw – p). He seems to be the popular candidate of choice to try to defeat Johnson. I can’t think of anyone else who shouldn’t drop out, though there may be one (I think Harris was probably the best of the rest).

    You’re probably right.

    I would rate all the remaining candidates except Johnson and Wrights as having less support than Harris did.

  59. Paulie

    AB @ 71 is mostly correct. However, I wonder if a Rand Paul VP spot would convince a lot more hardcore Paul supporters to vote for Romney. Among softcore Paul supporters I think many of them will in fact end up voting for Romney, even if they say they won’t right now, and especially if Paul is not on the November ballot – or for some of them even if he is. Between now and November they will get a lot of pressure from people making the argument that we can’t allow Obama to get another term in office.

  60. Andy

    Paulie said: “True blue libertarian refers to his ideology, which is in fact plumb line, radical, hardcore (or whatever term you want to use) libertarian. That is a verifiable fact that anyone can determine for themselves by looking at his published articles. If he ever wrote anything in those that I disagree with,”

    What Lee Wrights SAYS is one thing, the way he actually behaves in his personal life is a completely different thing. A person can say anything. Actions speak louder than words, and Wrights is another blow hard and a phony.

    And on top of his many character flaws, the guy just flat out sucks as a candidate. It really shows just how far this party has gone down the drain that anyone is taking him seriously as a candidate. It is clearly apparent that the guy would be nowhere if he wasn’t Mary Ruwart’s boy toy. He’s literally riding Mary Ruwart’s skirt.

  61. Andy

    Paulie said: “mong softcore Paul supporters I think many of them will in fact end up voting for Romney, even if they say they won’t right now,”

    Most Ron Paul supporters despise Romney. A small percentage may vote for him just to try to keep Obama out of office, but the majority of them will not vote for Romney.

  62. Andy

    “h, and while Johnson is MUCH better then Barr, I am a regular at the Daily Paul, and most people there trust him about as much as they trust most other politicians. Especially since Johnson has made it clear he is not a true non-interventionist. Unlike the Fair Tax which seems to make most LP members squirm with Johnson, among Ron Paul supporters, if you don’t have a true non-interventionist foreign policy, then you probably don’t have their vote. We take that stuff really seriously. It was the reason why I took interest with Ron Paul to begin with, because I was so anti-war and liberal.”

    Yep, it’s not “in the bag” that Gary Johnson will get a large percentage of Ron Paul supporters. He’s got a chance at doing this, but his support of the Fair Tax and his lack of adherence to a non-interventionist foreign policy may turn off a lot of Ron Paul supporters (and rightfully so). We’ll have to see what happens if he gets the nomination, but given what I mentioned above, don’t be suprised if a lot of that potential support does not arrive.

  63. Paulie

    Ken @ 72

    To me, it’s ironic that Republicans are looking for a Reagan, while Libertarians are searching for another Browne. You can’t just “wish upon a star” and expect results. Just like the Republicans, you get a Romney instead of a Reagan.

    We need to all learn to be better communicators. We all need to be cordial, informed, intelligent, caring people who try to convince people to join with us, rather than berate them.

    Very good point. I’m trying, although I still have a lot of work to do.

    None of the real life candidates we get are perfect. We need to make the best of what we can get.

    Johnson and Wrights both have many positive qualities, yet too many people here focus relentlessly on the negatives.

    At the same time we also need to not idolize people and always remember that they have their flaws, and yes that includes Ron Paul (and the current LP candidates, for those of you who do like them, as well as the past ones).

    Many C4Lers are small-L libertarians. Yet, many LPers bash Ron Paul, for one reason or another.

    Many LPers idolize Paul and a few bash him. As for me I see much good in both Dr. Paul and his movement, but that does not mean I ignore the bad that comes with it.

    Rather than running people off, or bashing people, we need to be educating people. Convincing people. Welcoming people. We can’t win the battle for liberty with a 2% quadrennial result.

    This is true. One of the worst things about the LP is all the negativity, infighting, unwelcoming attitudes…in short everything the opposite of what we need to be doing to reach out to people and grow.

    I firmly believe this year provides a once-in-a-generation opportunity to grow the party, significantly, due to the buffoonery of the Old Parties.

    Actually, I think that is only going to grow more, but I do agree that this year would present more of an opportunity if we were better able to take advantage of it organizationally. I think 2008 did too, but 2012 even more so, and I don’t think that opportunity will be gone in 2016 – if anything I see the problems of the establishment parties will only grow.

    It’s 1968 again for the Republicans, who are in full-fledged “purge” mode.

    Please explain. My reading of history does not show this for the Republicans in ’68. As far as I know, they brought Nixon out of retirement that year, when he defeated primary challenges from Romney Sr. and Reagan, and then won the presidency. It was the Democrats who had a very contentious nomination process that year, and it was mainly people then still primarily identified as Democrats who split off to back Wallace/AIP.

    For 2012 to be for the Republicans like 1968 was for the Democrats, we’d have to see Tea Partiers protesting outside the convention and liberal northeastern Republicans splitting off to run as a separate party, or something.

    I don’t envision anything like that happening though. The closest currently plausible scenario might involve Occupiers rioting outside and some of the hardcore conservatives splitting off to back …Virgil Goode? Seems rather unlikely due to the CP’s lack of organizational strength. Ron Paul alt party bid? Not with his foreign policy. Gary Johnson? Not with his social views.


    Meanwhile, the Democrats are self-destructing on economic policy and a failure to protect civil liberties.

    That’s true.

    But the same thing will get people to back Democrats and Republicans as usual – hatred and fear of the other.

    Americans Elect, if they run someone as rich as Bloomberg and/or as well known as Patraeus, might alter that dynamic. A Ron Paul alt party run on top of that may make things really interesting.

    But, at this point, while I envision Johnson, Stein and Goode all doing better than their respective parties did 4 or 8 years ago, I don’t see any of them breaking the kind of poll percentages it takes to make the major party debates or to keep themselves from falling prey to the “wasted vote” miscalculation at the end.

    TLK @ 73

    True, if by “ran him off” you mean “published a full-page article by him in the latest LP News and scheduled him as the keynote speaker for the 2012 Libertarian National Convention.”

    I am guessing by “ran him off” Ken means the period from 2002 until this year.

  64. Andy

    “You’re the only one saying these things”

    I’m not the only one that’s witnessed the dark side of Lee Wrights. Ask around. He’s burned other people.

    .

  65. Andy

    The Libertarian Party has been going down the drain for the last 12 years. Membership is down. Fundraising is down. The number of elected Libertarians is down. The number of candidates has been on a downward spiral. Ballot access has gone down hill. The Libertarian Party hasn’t been on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC in 12 years, and it already looks like the party is not going to be on the ballot in Oklahoma for this election (unless a miracle happens with an appeal in the law suit),

    Given these facts, perhaps we shouldn’t be suprised that the selection of candidates is so lame for the 2012 National Convention.

  66. Paulie

    LOL Andy, did you purposely wait until I woke back up to start replying?

    What Lee Wrights SAYS is one thing, the way he actually behaves in his personal life is a completely different thing. A person can say anything. Actions speak louder than words, and Wrights is another blow hard and a phony.

    Once again, if you keep asserting that without specifics, why should anyone else reading this believe you? I’ve heard your case before, but you are not making it here.

    And on top of his many character flaws, the guy just flat out sucks as a candidate.

    Putting aside your personal dislike for a moment if you can actually do it, why? Most observers say his speaking and debating has gotten a good deal better. He’s written quite a few (imo excellent) opinion pieces and regularly distributed them through numerous facebook groups, sites such as IPR, etc. He travels to LP conventions regularly with a small campaign staff and has been doing so for at least a year or more. His videos and website don’t suck. He’s good on the issues.

    Granted he is not a multi-millionaire, celebrity or cult leader, but it seems he is making the most of what he does have to work with and making a sound ideological case for libertarianism.

    Badnarik was a “nobody” with little money as well. He was a better public speaker (although again Lee has gotten much better), but Badnarik tended to waste his talent once outside LP audiences because of his tendency to sell the least popular aspects of libertarian ideology to whatever audience he was addressing — ie if he was talking to a college/liberal/progressive crowd he liked to come off sounding like a conservative by emphasizing the economic liberties side of libertarianism, and if he was addressing a rural/Christian/conservative audience he tended to emphasize the peace and civil liberties side of libertarianism.

    If I happen to be wrong about Wrights’ chances against Johnson, I think he can manage a respectable Badnarik-level campaign and would represent the LP competently at such public speaking and debating opportunities as he gets. I don’t think he’ll be nearly as bad as, say, Bergland, who from what I understand pointedly refused to work with a coach to improve his presentation style.

  67. Paulie

    Most Ron Paul supporters despise Romney. A small percentage may vote for him just to try to keep Obama out of office, but the majority of them will not vote for Romney.

    I think you are failing to
    A) Adequately distinguish between hardcore and softcore Ron Paul supporters
    B) Underestimating the strength of the “Stop Obama At All Costs” train as it gets closer to election time.

  68. Alan Pyeatt

    FWIW, I would hate to see Rand Paul give up his Senate spot to twiddle his thumbs as VP. And no, I won’t vote for a Romney/Paul ticket.

    Obama sucks, but Romney’s just as bad. And the VP is irrelevant until/unless the top guy croaks.

  69. Paulie

    I’m not the only one that’s witnessed the dark side of Lee Wrights. Ask around. He’s burned other people.

    Who should people here ask? Can you point them in the right direction? Provide contact information?

  70. Paulie

    The Libertarian Party has been going down the drain for the last 12 years. Membership is down. Fundraising is down. The number of elected Libertarians is down. The number of candidates has been on a downward spiral.

    Between 2000 and 2007, clearly, yes. Since then AFAIK the numbers have been relatively steady, with some variation but not a significant overall trend. The number of candidates in 2o10, a non-presidential year, was higher than in 2008, a presidential year, something that doesn’t usually happen. Fundraising was on an upward trend at least according to some of the charts Wes Benedict showed at meetings. You have some of those in the binders, or you can see them in the LNC meeting archives online.


    Ballot access has gone down hill.

    We’re better at this point in the cycle than the last few times at least. This was the first serious attempt at Oklahoma since 2000 and the first serious attempt at full party in NH since then as well. No state has yet failed for sure, as Richard Winger thinks the Oklahoma lawsuit has a good chance. Even if Oklahoma fails we still have a solid shot everywhere else.


    The Libertarian Party hasn’t been on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC in 12 years, and it already looks like the party is not going to be on the ballot in Oklahoma for this election (unless a miracle happens with an appeal in the law suit),

    Richard thinks it has a good chance, so not quite a miracle, although he does tend to be on the overly optimistic side with such things.

    His legal reasoning based on precedents seems sound. We’ll see what happens.

    If Johnson’s FR takes off it is also not outside the realm of possibility he could qualify as an independent there. I’d rate that as less likely though.

    We’ll probably do better than in 2008, and quite possibly better than in 2004 as well as far as ballot access, and full ballot access is not yet impossible.

  71. Kevin Knedler

    @# 81 Andy.
    To your comments.

    Sorry, completely WRONG in Ohio!
    Ballot access 5 years straight years.
    Participating in LP Primaries now.
    Candidate count is up.
    Just this year a 166% increase vs 4 years ago.
    Treasury funds are up
    More people getting involved.
    More county affiliates

    Only negative?
    Less people whinning about how the LP is going down the drain in Ohio.

  72. paulie

    Kevin,

    Actually Andy and I were 2 of the 3 people that got most of the signatures to give LPO standing in the case that made all that possible in Ohio.

    I think he meant nationally, not in any one state, but even there I think he paints too negative a picture. I’m cautiously, but not wildly, optimistic about what the LP can realistically do this year and in the near future.

    If things break right, coming out of 2012 we could be well on our way to equaling or surpassing all previous LP high points in the different criteria discussed.

  73. Kevin Knedler

    @ # 88 Paulie.
    Yep, you got it Paul.
    And thank YOU for all the hard work with petitioning in Ohio and all the other states.

  74. Thomas L. Knapp

    Paulie @ 82,

    “[Wrights] has written quite a few (imo excellent) opinion pieces and regularly distributed them through numerous facebook groups, sites such as IPR, etc. ”

    Those pieces are also distributed to “mainstream media” (I helped a little with getting that set up), although I don’t know to what extent they’ve been picked up.

    The problem with Andy’s criticism of Wrights is that when it comes to specifics, he’s only ever trotted out two, one of which he would have been the only witness to, and the other of which would seemingly have had witnesses (including me) but none have ever corroborated it.

    In the first specific, Andy asserts that at some point when he had a case of red-ass with Sean Haugh, he asked Wrights if Haugh was on drugs, and Wrights, if I recall Andy’s wording correctly, “went crazy” on him and yelled at him.

    In the second specific, Andy asserts another shouting match, all Wrights’s fault of course, at the 2008 Libertarian National Convention. At the time he first asserted that, it seemed to me that his account put that shouting match within a few tens of feet of where I was at the time (the Ruwart presidential campaign booth). If so, it must have been a very quiet shouting match, because I neither saw nor heard it.

    Unless he’s got something else to trot out, so far as Andy is concerned his entire critique of Wrights seems to come down to personal dislike which may or may not be either mutual or rational.

    My own evaluation of Wrights is also mostly personal.

    I have known Lee since early 2001, have worked with him for almost as long, and will have worked with him on a daily basis for ten years as of this December.

    During that time I have seen him move forward on, and put effort into, projects even when it didn’t look like doing so would benefit him, because those projects seemed like the right thing to do.

    During that time he’s had numerous opportunities to benefit dishonestly, in small or large ways, at my expense and at the expense of others, and to my knowledge he’s never done so and in fact has so far as I can tell been meticulously honest in his personal dealings with me and with everyone I know.

    I consider Lee a friend and a brother. I just really don’t have anything bad to say about him, period.

    BUT … that doesn’t make him the best candidate, any more than Andy’s dislike of him makes him the worst candidate. It just forms a starting basis for evaluating him.

    Once you’ve decided he’s a decent and honest person — or the opposite — the things to look at with respect to his candidacy include where he is on the issues, how well he presents himself, what kind of campaign he’s running, etc.

    One commenter here at IPR has at least twice alleged that Wrights once showed up at an LP event wearing assless chaps and a Harley t-shirt or something of the sort, instead of a suit and tie.

    That doesn’t sound like Lee to me. At actual LP events, I almost always see him in a suit and tie, and on the rare occasions not, in “business casual.” Even out on the town for leisure, he tends toward nice jeans and a shirt with buttons instead of a t-shirt. But I must admit that I’m not with him everywhere he goes, so I suppose it’s possible he hangs with Hell’s Angels and dresses to suit when I’m not around.

    As far as writing and public speaking are concerned, I wouldn’t say he’s the absolute best the libertarian movement has ever produced at either, but he’s quite good and has been getting better and better over the years and especially since announcing for president (I first met him when we were both booked as speakers at the Pennsylvania LP’s 2001 convention, so I think I’m reasonably qualified to judge that curve over time).

    On the issues, I’ll be blunt: I haven’t always agreed with him on everything. But even where we disagree I’ve generally found him to have well-reasoned positions that start with “what is the libertarian approach?”

    His campaign has not managed Harry Browne level fundraising, but he’s done a lot with what he has. He’s made it to a lot of conventions and hasn’t shrunk from doing so by spending multiple days on the road and crashing on supporters’ couches as needed. He’s been at least as far afield as Hawaii.

    I don’t think there’s much ground to criticize his campaign work ethic (or his personal work ethic — many’s the time he’s finished a day of considerable campaigning, and then come in to work on our daily newsletter at 10pm from his hotel room or a friend’s house).

    Not being involved in the LP any more, I naturally leave it up to those who are to decide which candidate best represents their desires for a presidential campaign. But y’all could d0 — and in my opinion have previously done — a LOT worse than R. Lee Wrights.

  75. Austin Battenberg

    @75 Paulie

    There might be some temptation in camp Romney to get Rand on the ticket to try and rein in the Paul supporters, but there are a few problems with that.

    First, Romney will lose out on BOTH the Paul supporters and the evangelicals that support Santorum (or in the past Huckabee). So it is much more likely he will choose Santorum or some other religious right-wing social conservative Republican because lets face facts, those evangelicals are a bigger voting bloc then Ron Paul Republicans and libertarians.

    Second, even with Rand on the ticket….even with Ron on the ticket, I still doubt that many supporters will vote for Romney. I know I won’t. The VP spot is pointless, they have no power and would just be a sell out. I think Rand would have more influence in the Senate then he would as a liberals VP. Especially since he is the closest thing we have to a libertarian in the Senate.

    I know that I will not vote for Romney, no matter what! Some may say that Romney is the lesser of two evils, but you know what, I don’t think he is. There is only two major differences between the candidates. The first being that they would appoint different judges, and the second being that if Romney is elected, he will likely have a Republican senate and congress, and one party rule by Republicans is the LAST thing we need.

    If we don’t have libertarians, at the very least we need gridlock. They do a lot less damage that way because of all the in fighting.

  76. Austin Battenberg

    And I know there is the huge “Stop Obama Train”, but there was a huge “Stop Bush Train” in 04, and look how well that went for Democrats.

  77. Jill Pyeatt

    KK @ 87: Congratulations Kevin! We’ve got regions in Los Angeles/San Bernardino Counties that continue to grow and attract interesting new people. Our meeting in Pasadena Wednesday night filled the room to capacity, and the meeting went late because there were so many events to talk about that had recently happened, and events coming up to get involved with. That coupled with the enthusiastic crowd at UCLA’s Ron Paul event last week, and it’s clear southern California is in a position to add numbers. The LP message of freedom is really getting out there in southern California.

  78. Steve

    I was going to leave a post praising RJ Harris, but the thread has ventured off into other topics, so I’ll leave a few drive-by comments on each.

    Harris – he deserves a lot of credit for taking on Oklahoma ballot access. While he won’t win the nomination, his campaign was certainly worthwhile for what it did for the party. That’s a standard all LP presidential wannabes should aspire too. If I didn’t have a per-existing connection to Governor Johnson and I thought the race would go beyond 1 or 2 ballots, I’d probably give Harris a 1st round vote for that reason alone. Best of luck to him in his Congressional run.

    Johnson’s VP – based on a facebook conversation I recently had with a Johnson staffer and the Governor’s recent interviews, they’ve apparently got 4 people in mind for the slot with one being an ex-Congressman “who’s name you’d know.” Hopefully they balance the desire for a wealthy, well-known running mate with the need to unify the party post-convention and come up with someone who is at least a strong ideological libertarian, if only one with a small “l.”

    Ron Paul’s voter in 2008 – I’d love to see actual polling data on this as I’m curious myself. I can say that in Iowa Dr. Paul got 10,000 votes in the caucus and Barr and Baldwin got roughly 5,000 each in the general. Obviously some wrote in Paul and some Barr/Baldwin voters were pure protests and not Paul supporters but I’d guess the similarity of those numbers is not a coincidence.

  79. Ken Moellman

    By “1968 all over again”, I mean the Republicans are about to purge anyone in their ranks who doesn’t fully support Romney, the party line, etc. Just like the Goldwater supporters who refused to back Nixon in 1968.

  80. Robert Capozzi

    91 ab: I know that I will not vote for Romney, no matter what! Some may say that Romney is the lesser of two evils, but you know what, I don’t think he is. There is only two major differences between the candidates. The first being that they would appoint different judges, and the second being that if Romney is elected, he will likely have a Republican senate and congress, and one party rule by Republicans is the LAST thing we need.

    me: Sophisticated analysis. I’ve not seen any handicapping on the Rs getting both H and S, but that would help make the case for rooting BHO.

    I vote L, but do root for the R or D I guess is likely to do less damage than the other. That gets REALLY tricky when factoring in the divided government is preferred stance; I’ve never done that in my rooting fantasies. I rooted Bush, Bush (by a hair), Obama in the last 3, but if I’d known the Congressional outcomes, I might have flipped at least the first Bush root and the Obama root, since both “enjoyed” undivided/barely divided government for a time.

    On an outcome basis, the Oval Office Rs and Ds are roughly equally dysfunctional. That could change, though, and I hope it does. If someone like Reagan was as dovish-ish as Clinton, or if Clinton was more in the Reagan free market-ish direction, such a person as prez – while not perfect – could be both relatively successful and relatively supportable (by me).

  81. paulie

    Yep, you got it Paul.
    And thank YOU for all the hard work with petitioning in Ohio and all the other states.

    Thanks and likewise!

  82. paulie

    First, Romney will lose out on BOTH the Paul supporters and the evangelicals that support Santorum (or in the past Huckabee). So it is much more likely he will choose Santorum or some other religious right-wing social conservative Republican because lets face facts, those evangelicals are a bigger voting bloc then Ron Paul Republicans and libertarians.

    True. However they are less likely to go alt party, which is one think the NSGOP bosses are afraid Paul and his supporters might do.

    I also would not be surprised at all to see a Santorum or Santorum-like type as Romney’s VP pick. Rand Paul may have an outside chance, but that’s about it.

    If that does happen, Ron Paul will probably not endorse any alt party/candidate or even combination thereof, although hopefully he wouldn’t endorse Romney either.

    As for what his supporters will do I agree that Rand on the ticket will not convince everyone to vote for Romney, but I do think it would become part of the carrot and stick used to eventually shoehorn some votes that Romney does not deserve and would otherwise never get.

  83. paulie

    And I know there is the huge “Stop Obama Train”, but there was a huge “Stop Bush Train” in 04, and look how well that went for Democrats.

    It worked out fine for them as far as stopping alt parties that year. There was nothing like Nader 2000 by 2004. Nader 2004 and Cobb 2004 combined didn’t add up to half of Nader 2000.

    As far as the Stop Obama Train, I am talking here about corralling reluctant support for Romney that should go to the LP, CP etc. I still think Obama will beat Romney unless AE manages to throw it into the US House.

    As for 2004 I happen to think Bush won by cheating, in Ohio and elsewhere, although that does not have anything to do with my original point there.

  84. paulie

    By “1968 all over again”, I mean the Republicans are about to purge anyone in their ranks who doesn’t fully support Romney, the party line, etc. Just like the Goldwater supporters who refused to back Nixon in 1968.

    I wasn’t aware that had happened. Where’s a good place to read more about that?

  85. Mark Axinn

    For those of you who want to see the candidates debate without spending a ton of money and time to go to Las Vegas, we have Gary Johnson, Lee Wrights, Carl Person and Jim Burns debating after Carla Howell and Dan Halloran speak and Tatiana Moroz sings us some tunes at the 2012 LPNY Convention next Saturday, April 21 from 11 am to 4 pm, at the Ukrainian East Restaurant, 140 Second Avenue, Manhattan, New York City.

    Tickets are only $50 and include a spectacular Ukrainian buffet. Register at http://www.ManhattanLP.org/events.

    Thanks!

  86. johncjackson

    @91 ( or anyone else who can answer),
    Where are the stats backing up the assumption that Santorum-filled Evangelicals are a much larger voting bloc than Ron Paul supporters?

    I could be wrong, but it’s always seemed to me that the Christian Right element of the GOP has been overstated/covered/pandered to in relation to its actual numbers.

    I guess Santorum had more primary support than Paul, but I would assume that a large portion of his support was NOT from principled Evangelical support, at least not the type that would abandon the party as Paul supporters will. Santorum ended up being the primary recipient of the not-Romney vote and broad “conservatives,” most of whom fall in line in November like good party soldiers.

  87. Austin Battenberg

    @102

    Your right, I don’t have any evidence that proves the evangelical vote is larger then the Ron Paul vote. I’m assuming it is because they have been around since Reagan’s first term as the moral majority. They don’t go to huge rallies like Paul supporters, but they still go and vote, and they want the most outspoken christian they can find.

    That is why you see those like Santorum and Huckabee do well, but not great, because the religious voters are numerous, but not enough to win an election (at least nowadays)

    Not to mention, unlike Ron Paul supporters, they are much more likely to hold their nose and vote for Romney. That is why I still think that the Republicans would prefer to garner their support then hope on Ron Paul supporters to come out for them.

  88. paulie

    It depends on what you mean by Ron Paul vote.

    If you mean people who say in polls that they might vote for Ron Paul or who tell their friends and/or other people that they like Ron Paul then I’m not sure the Santorum voters are more numerous. If you mean people who are actually recorded as voting for Ron Paul in actual elections then yes, the Santorum voters are more numerous.

    The Santorum voters are indeed people who will clearly almost all have a preference for Romney over Obama. They are better organized and more likely to be registered Republican. Thus I don’t think Goode will peel that many of them away. Ron Paul supporters (people who say in polls that they might vote for Ron Paul or who tell their friends and/or other people that they like Ron Paul) may be more split between those who think Romney is the lesser evil, those who think Obama is the lesser evil, and those who think the two are equally evil. Thus, there is more potential that they will vote for an alt party….but the organization to actually make that happen is still somewhat lacking.

  89. Oranje Mike

    Andy,

    When all you can say is “ask around” regarding Wrights, I have no choice but to move on. You’re offering nothing of substance and are refusing to state any facts in support of your opinion. This is not a place to troll out a personal grudge.

  90. Andy

    “Oranje Mike // Apr 14, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Andy,

    When all you can say is “ask around” regarding Wrights, I have no choice but to move on. You’re offering nothing of substance and are refusing to state any facts in support of your opinion. This is not a place to troll out a personal grudge.”

    I posted about it on this blog a while ago. It’s a long story. Search through the archives on this site.

    Anyone who writes what I say off as “just a personal grudge” is a naive fool. What I’m talking about is a person who is seeking this party’s position to be the candidate for the highested elected office in the nation who has got some MAJOR character flaws. I’m talking about somebody who told lies, and actually sabotaged ballot access (yes, Lee Wrights held back ballot access in his own state, and therefore caused a ripple effect in other states). I’m talking about somebody who was completely irrational. I’m talking about somebody who flat out LIED to my face, and then when I exposed that I knew he was lying at the LP National Convention in Denver in 2008 his response was to start screaming like a maniac and run away. I’m talking about somebody who contributed to the party WASTING money and having things done in an inefficient manner.

    I’m utterly astounded that anyone would take this clown Wrights seriously as a candidate. This guy is NOT candidate material.

    Do a search through the archives here as I’ve posted about this in the past.

    Character matters. Personality matters. Wrights is lacking in both areas.

    I’d love to see a really good candidate for President at the LP National Convention in Las Vegas who is a solid Libertarian. Wrights might sound like a solid Libertarian in his rhetoric, but he’s a piss poor excuse for a candidate.

    Would anyone even be talking about Lee Wrights right now if he hadn’t left his wife and become Mary Ruwart’s boy toy? Would he even have enough money to make it to conventions if Mary Ruwart wasn’t bank rolling him? I seriously doubt it on both questions.

  91. Andy

    Lee Wrights also abused his position on the LNC by practicing cronyism for his buddy Sean Haugh. When Haugh was employeed by LP National and fucking things up royally, and when it was blatantly obvious that he should be fired, Wrights was defending him up until the end. History hath proven that I was right about Sean Haugh, and I’m right about Wrights as well. Both of them are toxic and should be avoided.

  92. paulie

    Do a search through the archives here as I’ve posted about this in the past.

    We have at present 155,467 Approved comments on 9,393 Posts. The IPR search box, which is all that non-IPR writers have access to, scans articles, not comments. Even for those of us who write for IPR, what would we search for? All comments by you? All comments that mention Wrights? Not very feasible. I’m not sure whether more refined searches are even an option in dashboard, and most IPR readers don’t have access to dashboard.

    Point being, if you want to communicate something to people reading this, a generic “search the archives” does not help them understand your point in any way. You can find the relevant posts yourself and post them again on this thread, otherwise you should assume that most people here do not have any knowledge of what you are talking about and no way to assess its accuracy or importance.

    I guess it all depends on whether you are trying to actually persuade anyone or just blow off steam.

  93. jim

    Just need to clarify something from Andy…Lee Wrights did not leave his wife….Lee Wrights’ wife kicked him out.

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