Article on a Possible Ron Paul Third Party Run

Here is the story. Via Lew Rockwell.

In light of the campaign’s low number of delegates and low position in the polls, Ron Paul supporters are coming up with a Plan B: a third party run. Volunteers with Grassroots for Liberty, a Ron Paul Super PAC, called supporters Friday asking for donations and floating the idea of a third party bid launched at the Republican National Convention in August.

“Plan B, a third party run, would be greatly [unclear] by having as much support at the national convention as possible. Showing that we can pull a ton of support from one of the major parties would be a gigantic publicity stunt and a great way to launch a third party run,” a supporter named Perry said in a voicemail Friday.

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40 thoughts on “Article on a Possible Ron Paul Third Party Run

  1. John Jay Myers

    I am probably one of the biggest Ron Paul fans out there, but if he is going to run 3rd party he needs to do it…. now. He needs to go to the Libertarian Convention, we will probably have ballot access in every state, which I don’t think he could pull off with any other party.

    The time for him to abandon the Republican Party is now. I will be really disappointed if he waits until after the Republican convention, and then runs third party as something other than a Libertarian.

  2. George Phillies

    A third party run starting in August, with no prep work, is impossible for ballot access reasons.

    Also, it appears that the Oklahoma ballot access campaign is at best in a problematic condition.

  3. Matt Cholko

    It seems unlikely that RP would run third party at this point. If he was interested in doing so, there would have been some indication from his campaign by now.

    He has been around third party politics enough to know that he cannot win the presidency by doing running in one, so I would think he would prefer to be on the LP ballot line as opposed to AE (the only other realistic choice for someone of his stature.) Presumably, he would see some long term benefit to the cause of liberty by helping grow the LP.

    I suppose it is still theoretically possible that he could jump to the LP sometime in the next few days. But, if it doesn’t happen by mid April, I think we can say that is officially off the table.

  4. Andy

    “Also, it appears that the Oklahoma ballot access campaign is at best in a problematic condition.”

    It is still possible to get a candidate on the ballot for President as an independent in Oklahoma. The deadline for that petition is not until sometime in July. It’s not easy, but I think that Ron Paul has the “juice” to pull it off.

  5. Darren

    Ron Paul should’ve ran 3rd Party once he didn’t come up with a Super Tuesday win, the base was angry and the media started blacking him out. If he goes 3rd Party now then he’ll be viewed as a spoiler. It’s too late in my opinion for him to do it. He should just endorse a 3rd Party candidate for President of the United States.

  6. Oranje Mike

    This isn’t going to happen. It’s far too late and he’s already stated he would not. Dr. Paul is one of the few politicians I will take at his word. If he had any interest he would have done so by now. Still, I’d love to see it happen. Some people don’t like the idea of him playing “spoiler” and guaranteeing a second Obama term but I say to those folks: Romney is no better. He’s a NWO shill just like Obama, he’ll send us to war with Iran like Obama, and he’ll play his fiddle while American burns just like Obama.

  7. NewFederalist

    @7- I agree with you that there is very little difference between Obama and Romney. The only possible tie breaker would be SCOTUS nominees. Even there it is tough to get excited about anyone either of them might choose. I have always believed that the GW Bush administration was a complete disaster except for the appointments of Roberts and Alito. They sure aren’t perfect but have a better view of the Constitution than Sotomayor or Kagan IMO.

  8. Common Tater

    It will be too late to get on the ballot if he waits until the Republican convention.

    There are only two realistic ways he can do it, of which the LP nomination makes the most sense. He could then probably get the delegates to give him his choice of VP and any platform concessions he wants without too much trouble.
    He could announce *AT* the LP convention and still get all this done.

    The other path is to accept the Americans Elect draft where he is currently the leading draft candidate. He can then cross his fingers that the candidate credential committee will not invent a reason to invalidate him, and he’ll have to choose a VP nominee that they deem “balances” the ticket.

    Both LP and AE are at about 30 states rights now and likely to have full ballot access or close to it.

    The Constitution Party nominates sooner, and is missing some significant states, which would take a lot of work to get on. Ron Paul also does have some issue differences with them, just as with the LP.

    Ron Paul will probably stick with the Republicans, but if he doesn’t, LP makes by far the most sense.

  9. Paulie

    That would be very cool. I don’t think it will happen, but I will be very pleased if it does.

  10. Deran

    @6, I completely agree. February would have been the perfect time for Congressman Paul to strike out on his own. The mainstream media isn’t even mentioning him anymore as one of the GOP primary contenders. I mean, he gets mentioned after primaries/caucuses, but no longer is he discussed. In Feb Paul was still getting full discussion, and he could have used that and his own momentum to take off in a third party or independent direction.

    Personally, it seems extremely unlikely the powers that run AE would accept him as a nominee?

  11. Weldon T. Farber

    Probably nyet, nein, nada on AE.

    LP is the way to go and it is not too late, albeit there will be some “spoiler” talk whether he does it early or late.

    My guess is it will not happen regardless, but if he does go for it would be foolish to do anything other than LP at this stage of the game.

  12. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    AE would be better for Ron Paul, because many of his progressive fans might find it loathsome to vote for Paul on either the CP or LP.

    AE has no ideological baggage. A Paul/Kucinich AE ticket would be very popular across the whole left/right antiwar/civil liberties spectrum.

  13. paulie

    AE would be better for Ron Paul, because many of his progressive fans might find it loathsome to vote for Paul on either the CP or LP.

    I don’t think that any significant number of progressives who don’t already have a problem with Ron Paul would have a problem with the LP. The LP takes almost exactly the same positions as Ron Paul on economic and foreign policy issues (and again, I believe he could get any platform concessions he wants) and is more in line with them on social issues such as abortion, immigration and marriage equality than he is.

    Several problems with AE:

    1) Candidate credential committee may come up with a reason to disqualify Dr. Paul. AE has changed and invented rules in the past, and it’s a corporation that is owned by its shareholders and managed by its board, so they can manipulate the rules whenever they want.

    2) The ticket must be deemed “balanced,” and it is not entirely clear whether than means the VP must be of any other party or must only be a Democrat.

    3) Someone like Bloomberg could come in with a big money/big media campaign for the nomination at the last minute and dwarf any organic effort for the nomination.

    AE has no ideological baggage.

    Again, lots of doublespeak on this. Read the archives at Irregular Times for Americans Elect, Unity 2008, Unity 2012 and No Labels from the beginning to now, and check out all their external links, to get a fuller picture.

    A Paul/Kucinich AE ticket would be very popular across the whole left/right antiwar/civil liberties spectrum.

    Well, yeah. But to me it would seem to be the last thing that the board of AE – composed heavily of Wall Street Bankers and military intelligence leaders – would want on their time or their dime (that dime being at least tens of millions of dollars to date). If anything, there’s at least a decent chance that the whole purpose of AE is to present an alt party ticket that soaks up the anti-establishment energy that any such prospective ticket may generate and channels it into something that is safe for the establishment (e.g. Bloomberg, Patraeus, Huntsman, Roemer, etc).

  14. Melty

    “If anything, there’s at least a decent chance that the whole purpose of AE is to present an alt party ticket that soaks up the anti-establishment energy that any such prospective ticket may generate and channels it into something that is safe for the establishment (e.g. Bloomberg, Patraeus, Huntsman, Roemer, etc).”

    That’s the only ulterior motive I could think of.

    Sure enough, Bloomberg, Patraeus, & Huntsman are in with the bigwigs, but would the big donors of Americans Elect see Roemer as safe? Was he pushed out of the Republican debates like Johnson was, or was he not? I wonder which, if any, of the declared candidates with a 100+ supporters’d be considered “safe”. RJ Harris certainly wouldn’t. .. …just asking, not arguing
    I wonder how they feel about David Walker. The AE is pretty opaque, so the changes they make in their bylaws over the next three months will reveal alot about what the big donors ‘re made of.

    They’ve already said a candidate has to answer their set of questions they’ll eventually release in order to qualify, so if a candidate wants to stay out of it they can just do nothing. It seems to me Paul’ll just do nothing.

  15. Russ Winter

    I have been involved with Americans Elect and right now it feels dead on arrival. The qualifications deadline is May 1, and none of the leading candidates declared (Roemer, Anderson) or undeclared (Paul, Huntsman) are even close to hitting the thresholds.

    If somebody wants it they need to get in gear.
    The reasons and challenges are laid out in this article: http://www.wallstreetexaminer.com/blogs/winter/?p=4777

  16. Melty

    They’ll lower their threshhold within a few weeks by lopping off a zero or something, and probly postpone deadlines again too.

    Buddy Roemer, their top declared candidate, is credible. April may bring some other or others credible. Least surprising’d be if David Walker emerges. a likewise credible candidate.

    To me it’s dubious as to whether AE’s a good thing, mostly because it may not have the intended effect in the long term. The big donors’ve certainly earned themselves suspicion.

  17. Austin Battenberg

    There are many liberals and Democrats who like Ron Paul but can’t see themselves voting for a Republican in a Republican primary. I think that is a big reason why the support he has from the left is nearly non-existent when looking at the votes. If he were to run third party, a lot of those individuals who stayed at home during the primary may very well show up because of how they are disillusioned with Obama.

    Of course, if he starts to gain traction and holds onto the 17% that he was polled at as a third party candidate, you can be sure that newslettergate will return.

    This of course assumes he runs third party, which I personally find unlikely.

  18. Gregg Gibson

    I am a Democrat, but will not vote for Obama again, partly because he has governed as a Wall Street puppet, partly because of his militarism, and partly because of the health care mandate; I don’t have money to purchase health insurance at three or four prices in our fantastically expensive health care system.

    I will observe that in the polls Ron Paul is drawing around 22% of the vote, if these polls can be trusted; I have read that the CIA controls the bigger , more famous polls. Obama is pulling around 45%, and Romney around 33%. ASsuming the two parties are evenly balanced, that means that Ron Paul is getting 1/3 of the Republican vote, but only about 10% the Democratic vote. To be competitive, he will have to convince a lot more Democrats to vote for him.

    How does he do that? He already attracts peace Democrats, and people who object to the drug war, but that is not enough. He needs to moderate his anti-abortion stance to maybe just no third-trimester abortions, and draw closer to the gays and Latinos. He has been trying to do this, but so far much too timidly.

    But there is another big problem that Libertarians in general have in in winning over Democrats, and that is their support of Austrian economics. The Austrians excuse the taking of ground-rent, whereas classical economists like Henry George question why the government should give anybody a deed to land, when this results in them being able to extract a free living from the rest of society via rent.

    Before the Great Depression, remember, the Democratic Party was NOT socialist or promoters of big government, they were largely Georgists, followers of Henry George and the single taxers.

    If the Libertarians want to break out of their 20% or so of the vote, they will have to turn to the task of winning over Democrats. How is it a free society if a handful of super-rich people can derive trillions of dollars in rent merely by owning a deed to land?

    Ron Paul however is really a rather conservative Libertarian, it is said that he is a creationist for example. The Libertarians will have to revise some of their economics if they ever hope to get Democrats interested in them.

    Many Democrats are as fed up with big government as you Libertarians, however. Most of the welfare spending now goes not to the poor, but to the wealthy. Medicare for example mainly benefits rich doctors, not the elderly; most people would really be better off with all drugs legal and no medical licensing or control by government AT ALL.

  19. Gregg Gibson

    P.S. I did vote for Ron Paul in the SC Republican primary, the one where statistical analysis shows pretty conclusively that the vote for Romney and Paul was flipped by the vote-riggers, to avoid embarassing Romney by having him come in fourth.

    So Ron Paul actually got about 1/4 the vote in South Carolina, which sounds about right to me.

  20. paulie

    Sure enough, Bloomberg, Patraeus, & Huntsman are in with the bigwigs, but would the big donors of Americans Elect see Roemer as safe? Was he pushed out of the Republican debates like Johnson was, or was he not? I wonder which, if any, of the declared candidates with a 100+ supporters’d be considered “safe”. RJ Harris certainly wouldn’t. .. …just asking, not arguing
    I wonder how they feel about David Walker. The AE is pretty opaque, so the changes they make in their bylaws over the next three months will reveal alot about what the big donors ‘re made of.

    They’ve already said a candidate has to answer their set of questions they’ll eventually release in order to qualify, so if a candidate wants to stay out of it they can just do nothing. It seems to me Paul’ll just do nothing.

    Yep.

    The qualifications deadline is May 1, and none of the leading candidates declared (Roemer, Anderson) or undeclared (Paul, Huntsman) are even close to hitting the thresholds.

    If somebody wants it they need to get in gear.

    Look for a well-funded and well-publicized campaign for someone like Bloomberg, Huntsman or Patraeus to launch in the next month or two and get easily more than enough AE votes to qualify.

    Maybe more than one such campaign to make it look like a genuine election.

  21. Bryan

    He should only run for a third party if he fails to make significant momentum before Texas. If he can win Texas, his odds in California will improve greatly and he will have a good chance. If not, the GOP option won’t work and he can accept the Americans Elect Nomination as late as the end of June. Because lets face it, if the GOP primary still isn’t doing so well for us in a month, all the Ron Paul supporters (perhaps myself included) can and should run Ron Paul in the Americans Elect primary, which would e a piece of cake to win with our. We have options people, and the libertarian party is the weakest one (no offense to anyone who supports that plan).

  22. NewFederalist

    @27… I would like to see a Ron Paul/Dennis Kucinich AE ticket. My only fear is Ron’s age or if they actually won… the unthinkable. If somebody has a better Democrat for VP choice I would like to hear it. No Democrat comes close to Paul’s economic views but Kucinich at least would be good on ending the wars.

  23. Ad Hoc

    He should only run for a third party if he fails to make significant momentum before Texas. If he can win Texas, his odds in California will improve greatly and he will have a good chance.

    Sorry to say but that is delusional. The Republicans are uniting around Romney at this point and Ron Paul is no longer being treated as a serious contender (in fact, Gingrich is not either). As far as the party establishment and the media goes it is now on to the general election for the Republicans. Even if Romney does not get enough delegates, he will get most of the Santorum and Gingrich etc delegates and he will have delegation chairs telling people they have to vote for Romney to make it unanimous.

    Ron Paul will not be the nominee of the Republican Party for any office this year.

    Sorry to say.

  24. Ad Hoc

    If not, the GOP option won’t work and he can accept the Americans Elect Nomination as late as the end of June.

    Incorrect. He would have to express interest in the AE nomination earlier than that or be eliminated well before the final round of voting.
    And that’s not even counting the fact that the AE corporate owners literally own AE and come up with new rules any time they want. Since they are mainly wall street bankers and FBI/CIA types, do you think they spent all that money so they can run a candidate who is most directly opposed to their interests? I doubt it. Even if we don’t know what rule they will use to declare Ron Paul ineligible yet, somehow I think they will come up with one…

    …if they have to. More likely, they will either drop a well-financed and media covered campaign to get people to sign up and make Bloomberg, Patraeus, Huntsman or someone like that the nominee at the last minute, or manipulate the privately conducted online vote counting to get whatever result they want.

    Because lets face it, if the GOP primary still isn’t doing so well for us in a month,

    Well duh!


    all the Ron Paul supporters (perhaps myself included) can and should run Ron Paul in the Americans Elect primary, which would e a piece of cake to win with our.

    Except for the little details that
    A)Ron Paul will almost certainly say no to this
    B)The AE Corporate Owners will eliminate him through either a last minute well-financed, well-publicized campaign by someone else, rigged vote counting, or some new rule they invent if he says yes.

    We have options people, and the libertarian party is the weakest one (no offense to anyone who supports that plan).

    If Ron Paul wants to be on the November ballot the LP is by far the most logical way to go. Neither the GOP nor AE will allow Ron Paul to be their nominee. The Libertarians would give it to him by near acclaim, are already well on the way to complete or near complete ballot access, have run Ron Paul before (he remains a life member), will almost certainly give him his choice of VP and any other concessions he wants, and the media and many regular people (and sometimes Ron Paul himself) already say he is a libertarian.

    If Ron Paul misses his chance to take the LP nomination, I will bet any amount of money that he will not be on the November ballot this year.

  25. Gregg Gibson

    If Ron Paul chooses the Libertarian route, remember that he is a LOT more socially conservative than the non-southern wing of the party, and would probably want to accept Gary Johnson as his VP, to avoid hard feelings. He would NOT have automatic powet to just change the Libertarian platform to his liking on all issues whatever. There are plenty of Libertarian activists who are cool to the idea of Ron Paul as their nominee.

    And what about Rand Paul? He is much too conservative on the social issues for the national Libs., who now generally regret the Bauer disaster.

  26. Gregg Gibson

    I am interested in people’s ideas on Henry George and the single taxers. Ralph Nader is a great proponent of this as I understand, having read George’s magnum opus _Progress and Poverty_. Supposedly he suggested to Ron Paul that he read it, but that is all I know. It seems to me that that is what the Libertarians really need, a major opening to the Left that DOESN’T compromise Libertarian principles.

    Oh and by the way, how is it promoting human liberty to regulate the movement of people across borders? Nor is English a more ‘libertarian’ language than Spanish.

  27. Paulie

    He would NOT have automatic powet to just change the Libertarian platform to his liking on all issues whatever.

    I think he’d get his way pretty easily as a condition of running. Remember that there are typically a lot of open spots for delegates and Ron Paul could fill those easily.

    There are plenty of Libertarian activists who are cool to the idea of Ron Paul as their nominee.

    Relatively speaking, very few.

  28. Paulie

    I am interested in people’s ideas on Henry George and the single taxers.

    It’s been discussed here more than a few times. Check the archives. There are some people that are very much for it and some that are very much against it.

    Oh and by the way, how is it promoting human liberty to regulate the movement of people across borders? Nor is English a more ‘libertarian’ language than Spanish.

    I agree with you there.

  29. Gregg Gibson

    Thanks for the links. I remember that there’s still the Robert Schalkenbach Foundation that publishes George’s books, but their Georgist literature is oddly conservative Republican and anti-union in tone, not at all like George himself, who was the hero ofhe Democratic Left from the 1890s down through the 1920s. George was indistinguishable from a modern Libertarian, EXCEPT that he recognized that where a natural monopoly exists, and a free market is not practical, public control is necessary to avoid a tiny minority fleecing the public. So he supported public utilities, though he was hesitant to make rent-producing land public property, preferring the half measure of a of taxing away the ‘unearned increment’ and perhaps unions. Karl Marx adopted from George the state confiscation of all land that would earn a lot of rent, and made it the first plank of his Communist Manifesto.

    George was also anti-corporation.

  30. EddieM

    Why do people keep saying its too late to run a third party campaign by President Ron Paul? First of all, why would he start his third party run before June? And second of all, the only way to pull of the exposure of the GOP publicity, would be to keep his third party plan a secret until the last minute. President Ron Paul is racking up delegates that (for the first time in history)wont even support the Republican Nominee (once that nominee is declared the winner). Its actually the most genius strategy I have ever seen a third party candidate run. And back when Ross Perot ran for president in 1992, he bought time slots on television like infomercials. And he got 20 million votes (even after he damaged his own campaign). So just imagine what President Ron Paul is doing, he actually gets to debate people on television and dominate his opponents (at least from a debate standpoint). If President Ron Paul scrapes up enough money to buy time slots on television after June, you may see President Ron Paul get 20 million to 30 million votes (I dont know what states he would win or electoral votes). But he has a much better chance at becoming President than he did becoming Republican Nominee. Because the Republican voters dont like him all that much, but the Democratic and Third Party voters actually like him. So, in a nutshell… President Ron Paul 2012

  31. NewFederalist

    “Why do people keep saying its too late to run a third party campaign by President Ron Paul? First of all, why would he start his third party run before June?”

    Ballot access for starters. Plus the CP convention is now past and the LP convention will be by June. Unless you are thining Americans Elect and even that national online convention will be concluded by June 12th.

  32. paulie

    …and some of what you’ve been snorting for me :-)

    NF: AE has primary round(s) where a candidate would have to declare willingness to run. In May, I believe.

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