According to now-fired campaign manager Tom Stevens, Libertarian Party Presidential candidate Carl Person has issued the following statement:
I have terminated Dr. Tom Stevens as my Campaign Manager because of the direction my campaign was going, which was different from the direction I have intended. The material on bestiality published and emphasized by Dr. Stevens has nothing to do with my campaign, and I strongly dissociate myself from issues being promoted about bestiality. As I have repeatedly stated in my speeches and on my campaign website, my focus is job-creation through specific deregulation of small businesses and of vocational and higher education. I apologize for the unwarranted detour that has occurred, and will make sure that no other detours occur in my campaign.
I want to point out that this 2012 election campaign from the voters’ standpoint is going to be about jobs, jobs, jobs, and that there is not a single candidate from any party who has offered any specific, workable ideas for job creation other than me. I would hope that the Libertarian Party is going to capitalize on its great strength in this election, which is that through Libertarian ideals (of deregulating small business in certain specific areas) we can cure the nation’s job problem.
Back on November 10, Person defended and reiterated his bestiality comments to IPR. However, he has apparently changed his mind and repudiated those comments, restoring his campaign’s focus on Person’s distinctive jobs plan.
The post also contains a response by Stevens. In his comments, Stevens accuses Person of “doing what any sleazy politician would do and that is to blame someone else for his situation. … By throwing his friend to the wolves in an attempt to revive his campaign, he has now sacrificed his soul at the alter of his ego. I feel sorry for him.”
Stevens is currently the 2012 presidential nominee of the Objectivist Party, which had ballot status in two states last cycle.
56 responses so far ↓
1 Jeremy C. Young // Dec 14, 2011 at 3:52 pm
And now the editorial:
I’m glad Person has come to his senses and recognized that his friend and campaign manager was manipulating and humiliating him. However, I think he should consider why it was that he was unable to spot the deception for over a month, despite other people (i.e., myself) telling him about it. I think the problem is not just that Person is too trusting, but that he is too inexperienced in Libertarian philosophy to know when he’s being fed a load of hooey.
In my interactions with him, I found Person to be a nice man with genuine libertarian instincts. His career achievements are impressive and he has a decades-long affinity with libertarian beliefs. However, he is new to the LP and its philosophy. It’s my belief that third-party presidential candidates need to be well-versed in the philosophy of the party they’re representing, since the entire job of the presidential candidate is to promote that philosophy outside the party. Person will undoubtedly become a fine Libertarian, but he is just not there yet.
I think the best thing for him to do at this point would be to withdraw from the race, but to stay active in the party. He should seek out some well-meaning and experienced Libertarians and engage in discussion with them until he hones his philosophy. He might then be a great LP candidate in a few years.
Regardless, I wish him well as he attempts to put his campaign back together.
2 Stewart Flood // Dec 14, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Too little, too late.
I agree with your assessment of him. My interactions with him left me with the impression that he is genuine, even when he is expressing positions that are slightly off the main-stream of either libertarian politics or politics in general. That does not mean I agree with all of his positions (especially those that are very un-libertarian), but he does appear genuine.
But again, too little, too late. His campaign is over. As far as running in a few years goes…isn’t he in his 70s?
3 bruuno // Dec 14, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Out of curiosity what is the ‘libertarian’ position on animal cruelty in general?
4 RedPhillips // Dec 14, 2011 at 4:40 pm
What was Stevens’ motivation? Does anyone have any idea?
5 Nicholas Sarwark // Dec 14, 2011 at 4:41 pm
I’m unaware of any political campaigns that Tom Stevens’ involvement has benefited, which is why it boggles my mind every time I see his name associated with a new campaign.
6 ralph swanson // Dec 14, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Thrown ‘to the wolves’ for bestiality, eh?
7 Gary Odom // Dec 14, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Somebody screwed the pooch on this one!
Very sorry… it’s an old phrase that came to mind when I read this ridiculous story and I simply couldn’t resist.
How far we have sunk in this country when we now have political scandals relating to the subject of sex with animals. At least Monica Lewinsky was human. I would ask, “what’s next?” but I don’t want to know.
8 Jeremy C. Young // Dec 14, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Stewart @2, I don’t think he’d necessarily be a presidential candidate in a few years, but he could be a great candidate for Congress or NY statewide office (again). He does have an enviable background for a Libertarian candidate.
9 Jeremy C. Young // Dec 14, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Also, I seem to remember that Person is 62, not in his 70s.
10 Stewart Flood // Dec 14, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Ahhh…someone told me he was in his 70s. I wasn’t thinking of him as a future presidential candidate anyway.
Time will tell. He learned an expensive lesson the hard way.
11 Andy // Dec 14, 2011 at 6:31 pm
“Gary Odom // Dec 14, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Somebody screwed the pooch on this one!”
LOL!
12 signalfire // Dec 14, 2011 at 6:38 pm
I’d rather have a pooch screwer than Gingrich..
13 johncjackson // Dec 14, 2011 at 6:51 pm
What is the deal with this Tom Stevens guy and why was he managing a campaign while criticizing the candidate and releasing/focusing on such bizarre issues? The whole campaign just seemed so strange from the start.
14 Darryl W. Perry // Dec 14, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Tom Stevens is also the Presidential candidate of the Objectivist Party http://www.objectivistparty.us/
15 Thomas L. Knapp // Dec 14, 2011 at 7:25 pm
@13,
For the Stevens sub-species, replace “posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board” with “associates himself with, and promulgates communications purporting to relate to or emit from, a political campaign or organization …”
16 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 14, 2011 at 10:04 pm
This article quotes Liberty Lion with respect to the News Release Carl Person sent out terminating me as Campaign Manager but you do not provide a link to that Blog Article or my response to Carl’s action.
In addition, the title of this article is misleading. Nowhere in Carl’s News Release do I see him apologizing for the comments he made with respect to his support for the legalization of bestiality. Perhaps you can point me to his retraction because I cannot find it.
The link to my full blog article on the topic is at:
http://drtomstevens.blogspot.com/2011/12/stevens-responds-to-persons-attempt-to.html
17 Q2Q // Dec 14, 2011 at 10:33 pm
Hopefully, this will give Carl the momentum he needs to win the nomination.
18 Eric Stratton // Dec 14, 2011 at 10:58 pm
He doesn’t have a virgin sheep’s chance in Wyoming of getting the nomination.
19 Jeremy C. Young // Dec 14, 2011 at 11:10 pm
Dr. Stevens, read the post again — there is a link to your blog article in the very first paragraph. I wouldn’t include people’s words without linking to them.
As for the apology, try this on for size: “The material on bestiality published and emphasized by Dr. Stevens has nothing to do with my campaign, and I strongly dissociate myself from issues being promoted about bestiality. … I apologize for the unwarranted detour that has occurred. …” Good enough for me.
20 Trent Hill // Dec 14, 2011 at 11:35 pm
Jeremy–good rebuttal. Absolutely.
21 Here's a radical idea // Dec 14, 2011 at 11:43 pm
Too late for ole Carl Person. Flip him over and add some seasoning, he’s well done. Can you imagine the drama at the national convention if he stays in. Stevens torpedoed this deal for Mr. Person. Carl should run for US Congress or even state rep. Wherever Stevens goes, there is chaos. I remember the race for Governor in New York. NYLP just missed getting ballot retention via actual votes.
22 Jeremy C. Young // Dec 14, 2011 at 11:54 pm
Thanks, Trent!
23 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 15, 2011 at 12:35 am
Re: 19
O.K. Let’s deal with it.
“The material on bestiality published and emphasized by Dr. Stevens has nothing to do with my campaign, and I strongly dissociate myself from issues being promoted about bestiality. … I apologize for the unwarranted detour that has occurred. …”
Carl says his position that bestiality is a victimless crime had nothing to do with his campaign. Fair enough. I advised him NOT to speak about it in debates and NOT to place his position on his website. However some might consider his position on this issue to be relevant to his campaign for the LP Presidential Nomination.
He apologizes for the unwarranted detour. Not for his position but for the detour.
Finally, he “strongly dissociates” himself from “issues being promoted about bestiality”. Is it the “issues being promoted” he dissociates himself from or from his own positions stated and re-stated with respect to the issue? And what “issues” are being promoted? Endorsements by Zoosexuals? His position on the issue?
I do not see a retraction of his stand on the issue. I do not see an apology for his stand on the issue. (the apology was for the “unwarranted detour”). I do not see Carl taking back his position on the issue.
Carl spoke. Carl clarified and Carl became concerned when he faced negative feedback. That’s what I see.
24 Peter Orvetti // Dec 15, 2011 at 12:40 am
Baa humbug.
25 Jeremy C. Young // Dec 15, 2011 at 12:47 am
Here’s what I see: a former campaign manager and former friend who’s upset that he can’t humiliate his former candidate and friend in public any more.
I stand by my interpretation (and so does my boss, who graciously stopped by to comment in this thread). If Carl wants a retraction, he’s welcome to ask for it and I will happily provide it. Since you are no longer involved in the campaign, you have no standing to interpret Carl’s words, and I won’t be issuing a retraction on your say-so. Have a nice day.
26 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 15, 2011 at 1:06 am
Re: 25
I am sure Carl will love the way you wrote and titled this article. You see his News Release as a retraction and as an apology for his position in favor of the decriminalization of bestiality. I don’t see that in his statement. You do. Everyone is free to make up their own mind on the issue.
The only thing I have no standing for is to speak on Carl’s behalf or to seek a retraction on his behalf. I also sought no such retraction.
I do see the link now on the top of the article. Thanks for telling me to “Have a nice day”. I wish you one as well.
Final Note: As Carl’s Campaign Manager, I was restrained in my criticism of his anti-libertarian stands issues. There is a reason why the Libertarian Party of Queens County and the Manhattan LP have not endorsed his candidacy. There are reasons why he served as a State Representative in New York for two months before being replaced. There is a reason why the Objectivist Party was planning to terminate his membership. Now I am free to speak without constraint.
27 Carl Person Fires Campaign Manager, Apologizes for Bestiality Comments | ThirdPartyPolitics.us // Dec 15, 2011 at 7:48 am
[...] Source: Independent Political Report [...]
28 Sane LP member // Dec 15, 2011 at 7:54 am
Mr. Person.
As some country folks say, “The horse is out of the barn”. Or, was that a sheep. LOL. Go enjoy your life. Or do you want to spend the rest of it, defending your friendships with farm animals?
29 Jimmy Clifton // Dec 15, 2011 at 8:17 am
“Victimless”? Okay, I see. I didn’t realize until now we were talking about stuffed animals. Stupid me!
30 Jimmy Clifton // Dec 15, 2011 at 8:18 am
Gary Johnson just had the LP nomination handed to him on a silver platter.
31 Robert Hoover // Dec 15, 2011 at 9:57 am
I advised him NOT to speak about it in debates and NOT to place his position on his website.
And then you repeatedly blogged about it and made sure your whole mailing list was notified.
It reminds me about a story about getting stung by a scorpion…presumably, not a euphamism.
32 Robert Hoover // Dec 15, 2011 at 9:59 am
Gary Johnson just had the LP nomination handed to him on a silver platter.
Not because of this.
To the extent that the LP has serious candidates for the nomination if Johnson doesn’t seek it, they are Wrights and Harris. Person has never been one, even before the zoo gates were opened.
33 Kent Dorfman // Dec 15, 2011 at 10:02 am
“Victimless”? Okay, I see. I didn’t realize until now we were talking about stuffed animals.
That’s exactly what we were talking about.
34 Jason Gatties // Dec 15, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Am I a lone in the feeling that these two are just “playing politics” like its some role playing game?
35 NewFederalist // Dec 15, 2011 at 1:21 pm
I found this thread to be very Moo-ving!
36 Joey Bagadonitz // Dec 15, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Is Person a Nine Inch Nails fan?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vSAOrpKlgY
37 Gene Trosper // Dec 15, 2011 at 8:52 pm
Way to keep it classy, LP.
And Gary Johnson is actually thinking about breaking bread with all of you?
38 Gene Berkman // Dec 15, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Gene @ #37 – you apparently have become such a collectivist that if any individual who is or was a member of the Libertarian Party does something objectionable, then ALL Libertarian Party members share that objectionable trait.
Libertarians believe in personal responsibility. And it is not possible for any organization to police the thoughts and statements of all its members.
39 Gene Trosper // Dec 17, 2011 at 10:17 pm
Gene @ 38: I appreciate your input, but I hate to remind everyone that perception is reality. Call it collectivism if you wish, but the *perception* by a significant amount of non-Libertarians (and even among some small “l” libertarians) is that the LP acts as a magnet for disagreeable or objectionable behavior. That is not a judgment call on my part — I’m merely pointing out the reality of the situation.
There is such as thing as self-policing and I have been an advocate for that when I used to believe in partisan libertarian political action. The simple fact is that many (not all) Libertarians I knew and associated with either excused away or defended objectionable behavior, such as advocacy of white power/nationalism or pedophilia. I have personally witnessed convention floor debates over pedophilia and I have witnessed Libertarians support groups like the Liberty Lobby. Granted, in most instances, some action was taken to address these problems, but only after the issue was pressed, NOT proactively. In the instance of the LPCA “issue” of a couple years ago and of the 1994 LPCA convention where peddlers of The Spotlight were removed, Libertarians could have been proactive and quietly dealt with these issues before they became much larger issues. The 1994 LPCA convention organizer could have denied The Spotlight from being sold on site, but didn’t. The LPCA ExCom could have strongly dealt with the “issue” of 2009, but didn’t. Now, for the umpteenth time, the LP has found itself in yet another PR embarrassment.
Since I am now about 98% out of the LP loop, I only hear about these things on occasion from former LP associates who think I may be interested in the latest Keystone Kops goings-on. Just when I thought I heard it all, along comes stories like this…
I do find the charge of collectivism amusing, considering many in the LP engage in collectivist smearing of all government employees as “The Government”. When people angrily point to events such as the Waco tragedy and blame it on “The Government”, they are also blaming the local post office worker, the park ranger, maintenance workers, and any number of faceless people who happen to derive their income as employees of the State — “The Government”, without any distinction. This is not to defend The State — far from it. I’m just pointing out a double standard. Much like the slogan “I’m The NRA”, individual Libertarians, especially those in activist roles, represent the LP. It is not the organization or ALL Libertarians I have a problem with. Rather, it’s the CULTURE within the LP which is rotten. When I say “all of you”, I mean, “all of you”, because each of you contribute the good and the bad which constitutes the LP’s internal culture. For goodness sakes! I know women who feel uncomfortable, creeped out and intimidated by men in the LP. Result? To some, the LP appears to be a haven for boorish, sex-starved middle aged males. Why do some of them point that out? So Libertarians can change the culture of the LP to one that is non threatening and inclusive. When I make a critical remark, it’s aimed at every single one of you as a reminder that no matter how much you want the embarrassing stuff to go away, it won’t do so on it’s own.
The LP, with all of its numerous faults, is still an ally in liberty and I welcome the LP in the struggle for liberty. In that aspect I have some level of interest in how the LP conducts its affairs. Not that my opinion is worth much (it’s not), but it *is* one voice among many others who share the same concerns. I’ve said what I needed to in this thread and will say no more. Ultimately, it’s up to you all how the LP conducts its affairs. Have at it.
40 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 18, 2011 at 1:29 am
The Governing Board of the Objectivist Party has voted unanimously to terminate the membership of Carl Person for exhibiting Socialist Tendencies in his campaign to obtain the Libertarian Party’s Presidential Nomination in 2012 and exposing his past Green Party affiliations and stands on issues:
http://drtomstevens.blogspot.com/2011/12/objectivist-party-governing-board.html
41 Catholic Trotskyist // Dec 18, 2011 at 1:38 am
The Catholic Trotskyist Party has voted to preemptively expel Dr Tom Stevens, should he ever be interested in joining.
l
42 Catholic Trotskyist // Dec 18, 2011 at 1:39 am
Please pray for Christopher Hitchens, please pray for David Nolan, and please pray for Pope John XXIII, amen.
43 Robert Capozzi // Dec 18, 2011 at 7:35 am
40: …Objectivist Party has voted unanimously to terminate the membership of Carl Person for exhibiting Socialist Tendencies…
me: Is this a joke? Regardless of the intent, this may be the funniest thing I’ve heard all year…
44 Thomas L. Knapp // Dec 18, 2011 at 11:01 am
RC@43,
“Is this a joke?”
What, you hadn’t figured that out yet?
If past events are any indication, “the Governing Board of the Objectivist Party” probably consists of 1) Tom Stevens and 2) some random number of felt-tip eyes and smiley-mouths drawn on his fingertips.
45 Michael H. Wilson // Dec 18, 2011 at 11:46 am
Someone needs to start the Subjectivist Party. That might get some press coverage.
46 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 19, 2011 at 12:26 am
Liberty Lion has learned that Carl Person has offered to pay the airfare of all delegates attending the LP National Convention who have pledged to support his candidacy.
Full story at:
http://drtomstevens.blogspot.com/2011/12/carl-person-to-offer-free-airfare-to.html
47 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 19, 2011 at 1:51 am
Carl Person To Bring Corporate Downsizing & Outsourcing To A Screeching Halt:
Full story at:
http://drtomstevens.blogspot.com/2011/12/carl-person-would-bring-corporate.html
48 Here's a radical idea // Dec 19, 2011 at 7:20 am
Who are these loons? No wonder many outside of the LP think the LP is a joke.
49 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 24, 2011 at 1:25 am
Carl Person, a candidate for the Libertarian Party’s Presidential Nomination, issued his Prosperity Plan on October 24, 2011 calling for small cities to appoint “Town Attorney Generals”.
This article explains his philosophy and viewpoints on how these Town Attorney Generals can sue corporations to obtain “Corporate Clawbacks” to finance Free Healthcare, Free Dental Care and Free Prescription Drugs for all citizens.
Full article at:
http://drtomstevens.blogspot.com/2011/12/carl-person-calls-for-wolf-pack-justice.html
50 Humongous Fungus // Dec 24, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Why is Tom Stevens still posting about Person, isn’t he dismissed from the campaign?
51 Robert Capozzi // Dec 24, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Bitterness?
52 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 24, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@51
No Robert. Not bitterness. The freedom to finally speak my mind against all the socialist and leftist positions Carl was taking against my advice.
53 wolfefan // Dec 24, 2011 at 5:41 pm
@52 –
If you disagreed with the candidate’s positions you should have just resigned instead of (seeming to) intentionally sabotage him. Since you had to be forced out instead of leaving gracefully and voluntarily I guess you must not have disagreed all that much.
54 Dr. Tom Stevens // Dec 24, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@53
I must clarify. Carl Person was also a friend. I worked for his Paralegal Institute in 1989-1990 and he was a member of the Libertarian Party of Queens County (of which I am Political Director) so I felt a special obligation to stick with him and provide advice even if he didn’t take it.
I also did not need to be “forced out”. In fact, I told Carl if he ever did not want me to continue as his Campaign Manager for any reason, I would resign without question or delay.
However, for political advantage, he fired me
without notice so it could appear I was responsible for his having taken the position that bestiality is a victimless crime, when the facts are that he raised the issue, clarified it and told me he would take the stand again if he had the opportunity to do so.
55 Tiffany Briscoe: Any Place for Moral Values in Government? | Independent Political Report // Jan 11, 2012 at 10:23 pm
[...] Tiffany Briscoe speaks out against coercive social conservatives. In a twist reminiscent of a recent controversy in the Libertarian Party presidential race, she touches on the subject of [...]
56 RJ Harris, Carl Person Campaigns for Libertarian Presidential Nomination Reorganize Under New Management | Independent Political Report // Jan 13, 2012 at 2:09 pm
[...] Carl Person, having dismissed former campaign manager Tom Stevens, now has a new campaign manager, Chris Doscher. The website does not have content available right [...]
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