December 2011 Open Thread (and FAQ)

Personal update from Paulie first, since it appears this part does not get read:

Since I own no computer that works, and the one I have been borrowing is broken, and since I haven’t been staying in motels with computers in the lobby or working outside colleges or libraries with public access computers this past month, I have been online very little for the past month. This situation will continue for an unknown length of time. I’m checking email about once a week for an hour or two and that’s about it.

I will not post articles other than this one while this continues and I have not logged into facebook in a month or more either. Please do not expect me to be personally responsible for posting whatever items you send us. This is not my paying job, or that of the other IPR writers for that matter. We all do this in our spare time. I should not be having any spare time any time soon, since I make my own work hours. I forward all non-spam messages sent to contact.ipr@gmail.com to all IPR writers, but it is up to each of them individually whether they decide to post any given item or not.


If there are items you would like to see posted on IPR
you can:

A) Send them to contact.ipr@gmail.com
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C) Ask to be signed up to write at IPR

Anything posted as a story at IPR should directly relate to alternative (“third”) parties or independent candidates, either by subject or by author. We ask that if you sign up to write here that you not post your own personal editorials as stories, although you may post other people’s editorials and/or ask other people to post yours. You may of course editorialize all you want in comments regardless of whether you are signed up to post stories or not.

If you post comments that do not show up, do not assume that you are being censored. There is an automated spam filter and it makes mistakes from time to time. If you alert us to what you believe is a legitimate comment that is not showing up via contact.ipr@gmail.com, someone may take the time to manually get it out of spam. Or not. I do it when I have the time; other people rarely do. If you don’t alert us, chances are we won’t know. If you sign up to write at IPR you can also get your own comments out of spam, as well as post images and videos in comments (other people can not).

Same goes for any comment that you believe should be removed. We very rarely remove any comments except obvious spam, although it is at the discretion of the individual IPR writers. Please do not expect anyone to be monitoring all the comments. If you see something that you believe should be removed, ask the IPR writers. They may or may not decide to do so. Items that may be removed can include threats of violence, libel, slurs, violations of people’s privacy against their express wishes, and repeated harpings on a single subject in numerous unrelated threads after the pattern causes a great deal of annoyance expressed by our other readers. However, that does not mean any such items necessarily WILL be removed, especially if you don’t ask via IPR email. As with posting IPR stories, that is entirely up to our volunteer staff and/or the website owners (who also own many other sites).

There is no group decision process on which stories get posted. Nor is there any group attempt to favor one party or candidate over others. Each of our writers makes a personal decision on what to post, subject to removal by Trent Hill or the company he works for. If you are signed up to write here and not sure whether a particular story belongs on IPR, ask on our email list.

Please do NOT repeat NOT email us any requests that I personally post anything.

contact.ipr@gmail.com automatically forwards to the first several people that signed up to post stories here. Unfortunately, most of them have not posted here in a long time, or post very rarely. Trent is the only person who can add people to that email list. For reasons unknown to me he stopped adding new people that I have signed up here to the list a long time ago. I created a second IPR list for the new people and whenever I can, I forward any non-spam items we get at contact.ipr to this second list. However, that does not mean anyone will post those stories. I hope they do, but I can no longer do more here than everyone else, since it is interfering with my actual responsibilities (IE actual paying work elsewhere). Also, I’m reasonably sure that every other IPR writer has better access to the internet than I do right now.

I may also have to revert to only reading those comments addressed to me personally by name.

If you would like to stay in touch with me personally, I vastly prefer phone calls (415-690-6352) to email. I don’t own a computer, and even if I did, I would need to limit my time on it.

My apologies for the rant to those who knew all that already.

Discuss almost whatever you want in the comments on this thread, other than stuff that would get you and/or IPR in legal trouble, or stuff that has already been quarantined in “special” threads.

This can include news items IPR should be covering, as well as just about anything else.


Call 415-690-6352 if you need to get a hold of me (Paulie), or contact.ipr@gmail.com and/or comments on this thread (both if possible) for news tips to IPR.
I’ll keep forwarding anything I receive that I think belongs on IPR to other IPR writers. I would also like to sign up some new people to help us post.

For those of you who have my personal email, in any situation where you can call me rather than emailing me or otherwise contacting me online, please use the phone, not the computer. I can’t emphasize that enough. Thanks!

-paulie

243 thoughts on “December 2011 Open Thread (and FAQ)

  1. Richard Winger

    I hope people check out the 54-second video of Newt Gingrich, answering a question from the audience in Staten Island, New York, yesterday, saying that he will not debate anyone in the general election except Obama, and also saying that “all” minor party activity just helps Obama. See http://www.ballot-access.org, 2nd from the top blog post today (Sunday).

  2. Daniel Simpson Day

    @3 Since Americans Elect will be ahead of the Republicans (and possibly also the Democrats) in the polls, Neut’s words now should be held against him when he, being third in the polls, begs to debate the AE candidate and President Obama.

  3. Tom Blanton

    I’m wondering where Mittens & Newt are at on this whole bestiality thing. It seems that Person was way out front on this burning issue:

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/senate-approves-bill-legalizes-sodomy-and-bestiality-us-military

    I guess it’s no surprise that the Christian Right has problems with casual zoophilia. It seems it’s OK for America’s heroes to die fighting for our freedom in Muslim countries, but the prudish busybodies object to our fighting men having a little recreational sex with camels.

  4. Daniel Simpson Day

    Can’t wait for the Carl Person/Rick Santorum debate.

    As the musical group Destiny’s Child once said…

    ….I don’t think you’re ready for this jelly…

    http://blog.spreadingsantorum.com/2011/08/hilarious-piece-about-santorum-in.html

    quotes

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/whats-worse-than-santorums-google-problem–his-savage-problem/2011/08/04/gIQA1X4juI_blog.html

    He’s trying all kinds of things. Yesterday, he showed up at an event and handed out free jars of homemade Santorum jelly. If you’re aware of his Google problem, you will realize how horrifyingly awkward this must have been.

  5. Andy

    “Daniel Simpson Day // Dec 4, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    @3 Since Americans Elect will be ahead of the Republicans (and possibly also the Democrats) in the polls, Neut’s words now should be held against him when he, being third in the polls, begs to debate the AE candidate and President Obama.
    5 Daniel Simpson Day // Dec 4, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Well, maybe Neut (or Mitt) will be in 4th place, if Ron Paul runs Libertarian .”

    Now this would be poetic justice!

  6. Ross

    I’m going on winter break soon so I’ll be able to post a bit, although I probably won’t do it too often.

  7. NewFederalist

    I just visited the Robert Milnes for president website and he sure has a bad case of the old red ass for paulie! Interesting reading.

  8. Catholic Trotskyist

    The Catholic Trotskyist Party would like to endorse the return of Milnes and Ogle to IPR. Robert if you see this, I still support you, and would be supporting PLAS if I were a green or libertarian ideologically. I think they should still give PLAS a chance. And thanks NF for bringing these important updates to our attention.

  9. Catholic Trotskyist

    May our Lord God bring all IPR readers a blessed Advent season, and pray for all political parties to make the right decisions in their presidential nominations, and join the correct team as soon as possible; and may God right the path of our blessed President Barack H. Obama, who is surely the best choice we have in our current situation of single-member plurality district electoral college dictatorship. amen.

  10. George Phillies

    Importing some reality

    For the benefit of people trying to recruit one of the candidates of the Republican warmongers, note these amusing Gallup poll statistics, as beautifully put into tables by Jed Lewison at Daily Kos, for which see

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/05/1042585/-Gallup:-Gingrich,-Romney-only-candidates-deemed-acceptable-by-majority-of-Republicans?via=blog_1

    Who are the two candidates who are unacceptable to the most Republicans?

    Rick Santorum
    Ron Paul

    Tied at 62% unacceptable.

    And for the characters claiming that if we recruit Ron Paul, we pick up all the tea party sorts, who are the candidates most and least acceptable to the Tea Party Supporters?

    Most acceptable:

    Newt Gingrich — 82%

    Least acceptable (statistical tie)
    Jon Huntsman — 26%
    Ron Paul — 27%

  11. Alaska Constitution Party

    12/05/2011
    ARE THEY ONE OF US?

    by Robert W. Peck
    Chairman, Constitution Party of Washington

    Is it just me, or is the Presidential election cycle starting earlier
    and earlier? I mean since when do you hold Presidential primary debates
    before you’ve even had the preceding year’s general election? It was
    getting downright confusing for a while there, hearing people talking in
    the same breath about candidates that were running in different
    elections in different years. Nevertheless, the Presidential election
    cycle is upon us and people are talking about it and I find myself
    compelled to weigh in.

    Wherever I go, people are abuzz with speculation and hype about this
    candidate or that — “I hear this one’s pretty good,” or “that one
    sounds really conservative,” or “they say he’s a Christian — maybe he’s
    God’s man!” I’m sorry, but I wish that Christians and conservatives
    would get themselves an objective standard to measure things by rather
    than continually resorting to the subjective, emotional, gobbledygook
    guess work of “I hear is; they say that; some think this; I feel that.”
    I mean really, does anyone honestly believe this is how our nation’s
    founders conducted their business and made the decisions that determined
    the rise or fall of the nation?

    If we must begin talking now about next year’s Republican Presidential
    prospects, then may I ask that we at least talk about them in relation
    to some sort of standard that we can measure them by. To that end, I
    would like to refer you to a series of ’Constitutional Report Cards’ on
    the Republican Presidential debates that have been generated by Vision
    Forum Ministries, a ministry known and respected for their understanding
    of and commitment to Biblical Christianity and the original intent of
    our nation’s founding documents. At the time of this writing, report
    cards have been generated for six of the debates. The report cards,
    which include a grade for each candidate on each topic addressed, can be
    found at http://www.visionforumministries.org

    Admittedly, the report cards might not be a perfect representation of
    the candidates views as they are based on answers given in debates,
    which are not always complete answers as they are limited by time.
    Nevertheless, after reviewing six report cards, a definite pattern is
    beginning to emerge with the following grades being an average of the
    six report cards.

    Rick Perry: D
    Ron Paul: B
    Michele Bachmann: C
    Rick Santorum: F
    John Huntsman: D-
    Mitt Romney: F
    Herman Cain: D (dropped out, but still relevant for comparison)
    Newt Gingrich: F

    These are the candidates grades as compared with a strict
    constructionist view of the U.S. Constitution — the document to which
    each of these candidates seek to pledge their oath of allegiance on
    Inauguration Day in 2013. With one exception, it’s hard for me to see
    why any Constitutionally minded Americans would be getting particularly
    excited about this field of candidates, unless of course you’re the type
    who revels in the animating contest of mediocrity.

    Nevertheless, I hear the hints of excitement here and the allusions to
    conservative rhetoric emanating from a candidate there, as Christians
    and conservatives attempt to work themselves up to hope against hope
    that someone in this field will be able to carry the banner of
    ’conservatism’ and save them from the feared and dreaded Obama monster.

    As a Christian and a Constitutionist and as one who remembers what the
    tenets of conservatism used to be, I’m not inclined to get excited about
    any candidate for public office until I hear them addressing what I
    consider to be “The Real Issues,” e.g:

    * Audit, then abolish, the unconstitutional Federal Reserve.
    * Return to sound, Constitutional money backed by gold.
    * Abolish the IRS and put a stop to the misapplication of the income
    tax onto the wages of individuals.
    * Bring our troops home from any and all military actions around the
    world that are not part of a Congressional declaration of war.
    * Withdraw from the United Nations and remove the United Nations from
    the U.S.
    * End deficit spending, balance the budget and stop selling future
    generations into bondage.
    * Secure the borders and end illegal immigration.
    * Stop regulating U.S. businesses to death. Stop rewarding
    corporations for moving overseas. Bring jobs — real jobs —
    manufacturing jobs — back to the U.S.
    * No corporate bailouts, no corporate buyouts and no corporate welfare.
    * Return the federal government to performing only those few functions
    enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution and
    begin dismantling every extra-Constitutional federal department,
    agency and program, the list of which would be too long to print here.
    * Wipe the slate of all previously issued executive orders
    (Presidential directives) and remind bureaucrats everywhere that
    nothing has the force of law unless Congress passed it, the
    President signed it and its authorized in the U.S. Constitution.

    Those are just the few items that pop into my head without having to
    think very hard. I’m sure there are plenty more.

    These are the issues that once served as the bedrock of conservatism and
    they are the issues that must be addressed if we are even half way
    serious about returning to a Constitutional form of government,
    preserving liberty and ever regaining any real prosperity.

    I recently heard a presentation by independent, Constitutionally minded
    talk radio host, Sam Bushman. While addressing a group of
    Constitutionists, Sam recited a list of issues similar to the one above,
    then pointed out that ’if they’re not talking about these issues,
    they’re not one of us.’

    So I have to ask, of all the candidates running (and not just for
    President), even if they are running with an “R” after their name, or
    the title of “Conservative” bestowed upon them, how many of them are
    addressing these fundamental issues that determine freedom or oppression
    for we the people and spell life or death for our republic? All God
    honoring, freedom loving Americans who have any amount of appreciation
    for the principles that our nation was founded upon, need to be asking
    themselves this question — if a candidate is not publicly addressing
    these core issues and is not overtly proclaiming these most basic
    Constitutional policies, then are they really “One of us?” And if
    they’re not really “One of us,” then why would we waste our time, our
    money or our vote supporting them?

    *Addendum*

    While I’m on the topic of ’whether they’re one of us’ – I recently
    heard Republican U.S. Senator Marco Rubio of Florida on the Sean
    Hanity radio program. Senator Rubio is looked to by many as one of
    the best examples of conservatism in Congress. During the 15 minute
    segment, I did not hear one of the items on my list of key issues
    even alluded to, much less committed to. Though there was plenty of
    talk about so called “conservative” answers to our nation’s
    problems, there was not one direct reference to what the plain text
    of the Constitution says about the issues of our day. Everything was
    about how bad the Democrats are and how Republican’s want to fix
    things by lessening the oppressiveness of the unconstitutional
    things the federal government is doing, such as to “flatten” the tax
    rate rather than eliminate the abhorrent and unconstitutional
    misapplication of the income tax onto wages. I don’t expect people
    to address every item on my list in every interview or acknowledge
    our Creator and His moral laws in every conversation. Nevertheless,
    when two of the top ’conservative’ personalities of our day can talk
    for 15 minutes without addressing any of the things that Christians
    and Constitutionalists should deem key to our nation’s survival, you
    really have to wonder whether they’re one of us.

    If you agree with the content of this article, please forward, post and
    publish far and wide. If you don’t, who will?

    © Robert W. Peck

    Robert Peck lives in Spokane Valley,
    Washington where he owns and manages residential rental properties. He
    serves as the Chairman of the Constitution Party of Washington
    and as Western Area Co-Chairman
    for the Constitution Party National
    Committee.

  12. Kleptocracy And You

    Explaining the left-right paradigm to a co worker!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kw7j4lbDB4

    Are We All Just Pawns on the Grand Chess Board? – http://constitutionpartyoftennessee.com/2011/03/07/are-we-all-just-pawns-on-the-grand-chess-board/

    EVERYTHING THEY EVER TOLD ME WAS A LIE: http://shop.americanfreepress.net/store/p/220-EVERYTHING-THEY-EVER-TOLD-ME-WAS-A-LIE.html

    “There is no such thing, at this date of the world’s history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar weekly salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.” – John Swinton, former New York Times Chief of Staff

    Where do you fit on the political test?: http://www.constitutionpartymo.org/Political_Test.pdf

  13. Kleptocracy And You

    Milnes lives in a van?! Is it down by a river?

    – – –

    Electoral College

    Although the Constitution does not require the states to adhere to any specific manner in electing these electors or how they cast their votes, it suggests, by its wording, that prominent individuals from each congressional district, and from the state at large, would be elected or appointed as electors that represent that district. Under this arrangement, a voter would vote for three individuals, one to represent his district and two “at large” representatives to represent his state. These electors, in turn, would then carefully and deliberately select the candidate for president. Under this system each congressional district could, in essence, select a different candidate. The candidate with the most electors nationwide would become the next president.

    This was the general procedure used until the 1830?s, at which time all the states, except for South Carolina, changed to a “general ticket.”

    The “general ticket” system is still in use today. Inherently, it causes corruption by the inequitable transfer of power from congressional districts to the states and large cities at the expense of rural communities.

    The Constitution Party encourages states to eliminate the “general ticket” system and return to the procedure intended by the Framers.

    -Reprinted from the CPofTN Platform

    Currently Maine and NB are the only states which use the CD system to elect the POTUS.

    The largest (11) states currently equal the winning total in the Electoral college. Any candidate who could win those eleven states would be the POTUS elect ! (Milnes included-lol)

  14. Reformin' to da Maxx

    The Reform Party of NJ has organized an appearance by Governor Buddy Roemer, Republican candidate for President. The event will be hosted at the Bayshore Tea Party’s Headquarters. Roemer recently announced that he will seek the nomination of Americans Elect, however, many within the Reform Party believe he will also seek their nomination, thus securing a spot on the 2012 presidential ballot if Americans Elect suffers the same fate as Unity08.

    Event information is below:

    Governor Buddy Roemer
    Saturday, December 10, 2011
    12:30pm until 2:00pm
    275 Route 35 North, Red Bank, NJ 07701

    Contact: Jacob Zychick,
    RPNJ Chairman,
    ReformPartyNJ@Gmail.com

  15. Kleptocracy And You

    Ralph Nader Calls for “Grand Series” of Presidential Debates

    Ralph Nader has put out a call for a “grand series” of twenty-one nationwide presidential debates in 2012, arguing that control over topics and format should be wrested from the bipartisan Commission on Presidential Debates and placed in the hands of local communities all over the country.

    “True debates, rather than parallel interviews of the CPD [i.e. Commission on Presidential Debates] model, would offer depth, variety, and unpredictability to counter the scripted nature of the candidates’ political consultants,” writes the long-time consumer advocate and former Independent candidate for president in an article published on his Nader.org website this month.

    Nader envisions presidential debates as a means of enlivening the civic impulse of voters and invigorating the democratic process.

    “Instead of the present, stifling, programmed three debates by the CPD,” he states, “these twenty one debates would throw aside many of the taboos, bring the people into the process, address regional needs, excite larger voter turnout and compel the candidates to be better, more forthright candidates.”

    He also argues that presidential debates should be opened up to candidates outside the two-party system.

    “Fresh agendas and personas will be allowed in these debates including third-party candidates who meet reasonable criteria of ballot presence and public support.”

    So what’s the problem with the Commission on Presidential Debates? It may well be that many Americans don’t know a great deal about the organization that controls the presidential debate process. The very term “Commission on Presidential Debates” has an official air about it. It might evoke the idea that it is an agency of the state or a governmental authority. It might also be associated with the so-called “blue ribbon” type commission, such as a special task force convened by executive order or legislative directive.

    Yet, the Commission on Presidential Debates is nothing of the sort. It is a 501(c)(3) corporation founded in 1987 which is entirely controlled by the Republican and Democratic Parties. Its first two co-chairs were former Democratic Party National Chairman Paul G. Kirk Jr. and former Republican Party National Chairman Frank J. Fahrenkopf Jr. Kirk has since been replaced by Michael D. McCurry, a Democratic National Committee insider and former press secretary for President Bill Clinton.

    Until 1988, the League of Women Voters had been organizing presidential debates since at least 1976. The well-respected group withdrew its sponsorship of any and all presidential debates when the process was hijacked by the party committees.

    “The League of Women Voters is withdrawing its sponsorship of the presidential debate scheduled for mid-October because the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetrate a fraud on the American voter,” League President Nancy M. Neuman said in a press release from October 3, 1988.

    “Neuman called “outrageous” the campaigns’ demands that they control the selection of questioners, the composition of the audience, hall access for the press and other issues,” the release continued.

    At the time, The New York Times reported that, at its founding, the co-chairs of the commission more or less intended it to exclude third party and independent alternatives to the Democratic and Republican parties, which is not surprising given that those -chairs were the sitting chairs of the Democratic and Republican National Committees.

    “Mr. Fahrenkopf indicated that the new Commission on Presidential Debates, a nonprofit group made up of representatives from each party, was not likely to look with favor on including third-party candidates in the debates,” reported The Times in an article from February 18, 1987.

    It continued: “Mr. Kirk was less equivocal, saying he personally believed the panel should exclude third-party candidates from the debates.”

    At present, the Commission requires that, to be included in any of the debates, a third party or Independent candidate must poll at least 15% support across a series of national polls. It is noteworthy that even this seemingly low bar is almost double the approval rating of the entire Congress, according to some polls. Moreover, it is highly problematic that polling organizations rarely if ever include third party or Independent candidates by name in any of their surveys. How can a candidate demonstrate any level of support in the polls if he or she is not even included in surveys?

    Nader suggests taking up a proposal of the Appleseed Citizens’ Task Force on Fair Debates, which would invite all candidates who have obtained ballot access in enough states to achieve a majority in the electoral college, if they also demonstrate at least 5% support in national polls.

    Given the current contempt in which the American people hold the Democratic and Republican parties, it is arguably long past time to take control of the presidential debate process from the Republican and Democratic National Committees, and open the system to “fresh agendas and personas,” as Mr. Nader writes.

    Cross-posted from the Independent Voter Network.

    Very important info here. The POTUS Debates are a “RIGGED” deal. A 15% threshold for any third Party, without the controlled corporate media pushing them is unreachable. Hence only “their” candidates debate. A new system MUST begin NOW for the 2012 election.

    Let ALTERNATIVE solutions be heard !!!

    Which is more American freedom, closed debate or OPEN debate among candidates who can mathematically win the Electoral College ?? Fairness for ONCE…..

  16. paulie Post author

    I just visited the Robert Milnes for president website and he sure has a bad case of the old red ass for paulie! Interesting reading.

    Funny stuff.

    He thinks i “virtually run” IPR when I have posted a grand total of one article per month in November and December, and not many more comments than that. In fact I haven’t been reading comments either, except the one I am responding to. And I only read that because you mentioned me by name.

    I read IPR headlines once every few days to a week.

    Maybe all the IPR writers are under my mind control through telepathy….LOLOL

    –p

  17. Stewart Flood

    Or the radio receivers you put in the tin foil hats?

    Half way through Oklahoma, only about 1200-1300 miles to go to Vegas.

  18. Darryl W. Perry

    He sent me an email – begging me to ask IPR to remove his ban on posting. He also wrote something about the MSM being powerful enough to actually see him masturbate, and wanted to know why I would doubt they could do such a thing.
    I did not respond. He seriously need psychiatric help!!!!

  19. Jill Pyeatt

    Thanks for the link, NF.

    This poor man is seriously disturbed. I hope he’s able to get some help, and soon.

  20. just saying

    I sense that poor paulie is putting in drudging 12-hour days on the road to put Bloomberg on the ballot.

  21. just saying

    poor Milnes… if a group of nefarious evildoers were looking to gaslight a paranoid person as an experiment, they would search the Internet and pick Milnes as their victim. At this point he may actually be telling the truth

  22. johncjackson

    Milnes responded to me! But he didn’t mention me by name. Obviously he knows I’m too powerful to mention, like Ron Paul. Could I be the real rightwing think tank leader? hmm.

  23. NewFederalist

    “Thanks for the link, NF.

    This poor man is seriously disturbed. I hope he’s able to get some help, and soon.”

    I completely agree, Jill. I would guess he is not a bad guy but really is in need of professional help and a support group that really cannot be provided online. I wish him well, especially at this time of the year.

  24. Paulie

    I sense that poor paulie is putting in drudging 12-hour days on the road to put Bloomberg on the ballot.

    Not so much. I have multiple clients and none of them has that name. My hours have varied, my internet access has sucked. See article above for details (scroll up … to “comment zero” as Doc Phillies calls it).

  25. Paulie

    I’m not disclosing my clients here for competitive reasons. IE other people in my business read these comments sometimes.

    Since the petition drive is over, I’ll disclose that i helped with the Country Party petition in Wyoming, and that I am no longer there.

  26. William Saturn

    For those who didn’t know, Minerva Councilman Phil Davison is in the running for the BTP presidential nomination.

    Phil is a radical individualist, who gained worldwide notice in September 2010 after his fiery campaign speech was posted on the Huffington Post. The video went viral and received nearly 3 million views on YouTube before it was deleted earlier this year.

    Phil joined the BTP this past March, just before appearing on Tosh.0.

    For reference and information on this candidate:

    See the fiery speech from September 2010: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-olson/phil-davison-gop-speech_b_710642.html

    An extensive interview with the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-olson/post_879_b_731514.html

    And an interview with Megyn Kelly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYqXHlukrI&feature=related

  27. LNC Rejects Buying Building

    Twice more, in fact.

    With very strong negative votes on the two mail ballots.

    The National Chair is conducting a fund drive in the complete absence of an authorizing resolution passed by the LNC and operative as of this date.

    …George Phillies

  28. George Phillies

    OH, you wanted them.

    Motion 3: Voting in favor: Craig, Flood, Hinkle, Karlan, Kirkland, Redpath, and Ruwart. Voting against: Eshelman, Lieberman, Mattson, Olsen, Root, Rutherford, Sink-Burris, Visek, Wolf .

    This is Mark Hinkle’s motion, made as Chair. The vote was 6-10 against. Voting Yes were Hinkle, Kirkland, Lark, Redpath, Ruwart, and Wiener. Voting against were Eshelman, Flood, Karlan, Lieberman, Olsen, Root, Rutherford, Sink-Burris, Visek, and Wolf. Specifically Stated Abstentions were Knedler and Mattson.

    I would have voted against.

  29. George Phillies

    #4 required the audit committee to verify that certain fundraising goals had been met.

    The minimum down payments were $172,000 and $248,000, respectively.

    The overwhelming sameness is that they were both defeated.

  30. Christina Ivanov

    RED BANK, NJ – Governor Buddy Roemer (R-LA) brought his presidential campaign to Red Bank, New Jersey on December 10th.

    Reform Party leaders Jacob Zychick, Dino Scaros, and Dennis “DJ” Mikolay meet with Governor Buddy Roemer.

    The former Congressman turned Chief Executive spoke for roughly two hours at an appearance co-organized by the Bayshore Tea Party Group and the leadership of the Reform Party of New Jersey.

    During the event, Roemer criticized the Republican Party for ignoring his campaign. He blasted fellow contenders Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney on their failure to address pertinent issues such as campaign finance reform, the death of American domestic industry, and energy independence.
    Roemer, who has expressed interest in the American Elect ballot effort, said that he would not rule out a third party candidacy.

    “If the Republican Party keeps shutting me out,” said Roemer, “I will find a way to have a third party stand with me, and we will get in those debates!”

    Governor Roemer promised to take his campaign to all fifty states. Also in attendance were Mayor Anna Little (R-Atlantic Highlands) and former Congressional candidate David Corsi.

    http://www.ahherald.com/newsbrief-mainmenu-2/monmouth-county-news/12214-louisiana-governor-running-for-president

  31. Catholic Trotskyist

    Glad Phil Davison is running for President. Milnes mentioned him on his website and I thought he just got him mixed up with Jim Davidson. I have loved Phil’s inspiring speech since it was on the Rachel Maddow show right after he made it. I listen to it on YouTube (where there is still a copy I believe) whenever I need to be inspired. The Republican Party is too good for him; this is a great asset to the Bostom Tea Party. Hopefully he will join the All-Party team.

  32. Robert Capozzi

    37 ws: Minerva Councilman Phil Davison is in the running for the BTP presidential nomination.

    me: Is this confirmed? I would recommend watching the video on HuffPo…words escape… ;-)

  33. Steven R Linnabary

    The OH LP convention will be at the Worthington Holiday Inn (Columbus) March 24, 25 & 26.

    http://www.holidayinn.com/hotels/us/en/worthington/cmhwo/hoteldetail

    room rate for us will be $78/ night, just tell them you’re with the LP.

    There will be a Presidential candidate debate and a forum for the LNC candidates. Details are still being worked out (seems Indiana is holding theirs the same weekend).

    I am the LPO Convention coordinator/chair/chief bottle washer, and looking for good ideas, feel free to make suggestions. I am trying to hold down costs.

    I do want to allow students into the Presidential debate for free. I figure a full room will look better for TV cameras (if they show), and might bring new recruits as well as make candidates answer real questions from non Libertarians.

    Also allowed in free to all events (except meals) will be any elected or appointed government official. We did this a few years ago, and it allowed our chair at the time to schmooze with possible party jumpers. Robert Butler wasn’t keen on the idea when we told him about it, but he did get a couple of elected state reps to come.

    PEACE

  34. Steven R Linnabary

    Yes, the Presidential debates and the LNC candidate forum will be webcasted.

    I’ll let others do the uploading to YouTube.

    PEACE

  35. Tom Blanton

    Hey, maybe Carl Person is actually ahead of his time

    And you scoffed when I recognized this as a vital issue. Person was way out front on this issue, unlike Lindsey Graham who was tricked into voting to allow sex between our boys overseas and same-sex camels. Apparently, he thought the bill was only about funding the military to the tune of about $662 Billion and allowing indefinite detention for American citizens that make him nervous.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/sen-lindsey-graham-says-he-didnt-know-defense-bill-he-approved-lifts-military-ban

  36. Tom Blanton

    The defense bill regarding bestiality repealed the following:

    Article 125 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice says: “(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense. (b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    Apparently, the ban on copulation between a soldier and a same-sex animal did not address oral sex or “heavy petting”, just copulation.

  37. ctomp

    Does anyone have any news on Peace & Freedom Organizing Committee meeting that took place this past weekend?

  38. Darryl W. Perry

    http://bostontea.us/node/1062

    There will be a Presidential & Vice Presidential debate Saturday December 17 at 7PM CST. The debate will consist of a 1 hour Presidential candidate debate immediately followed by a 1 hour Vice Presidential candidate debate.

    I will serve as the moderator of the debate and will post the chatlog in the comments of this thread.

    The debate will take place in a chatroom at http://tiny.cc/BTP-chat

    The chatroom will be open to everyone, however I request that all observers refrain from conversing during the debate.

  39. just saying

    Wow, that’s pretty pathetic for the Green Party to be carrying water for Brzezinski, the CIA and the NED.

  40. Don Lake, leaving a paper trail

    Drills. Fillings. Root canals. Extractions.

    Dentures.

    I like my dentist. He provides terrific care to me and my family. But I’d be lying if I said I actually enjoy everything he does.

    What’s this have to do with Public Citizen?

    Our legal team recently filed a lawsuit challenging a form many dentists and doctors require their patients to sign. The form prohibits patients from sharing how they were treated with friends and neighbors via websites like DoctorBase, Facebook or Yelp.

    You may have unwittingly signed one of these forms yourself just trying to complete all the paperwork before you or your child could get treated for an aching tooth or a sprained ankle.

    The very day after we filed the lawsuit, the company that markets the form announced that it will stop doing so.

    That’s the reach and power of Public Citizen.

  41. history ----- on the current situation(s) .... Lake

    “Canada’s premiere gay lifestyle store and sex shop …………” [with items purchased with official card of Mississippi town, by the current mayor] ……….

    He told the newspaper he doesn’t remember what he purchased at the store, but said he visited it on a recruitment trip for the city.

    Davis, who is divorced with three daughters, made an unsuccessful bid for Congress in 2008, running on a family values platform.

    He was first elected mayor in 1997, and said it‘s too early for talk about whether he’ll resign in light of the disputed expenses.

    He said he plans to take time off through the holidays to spend time with his family.

    [tell me again why we are so concerned with Dems and GOP. They seem to be doing a bang up job!]

  42. Darryl W. Perry

    http://www.freepatriot-press.com/2011/12/open-letter-to-president-obama-and-all.html

    To President Obama and all members of the U.S. Congress,The National Defense Authorization Act (H.R. 1540)
    was recently passed through both Houses of Congress, and was signed
    into law by President Obama. Members of Congress from both factions of
    the Ruling Party (also known as the Repubicratic Duopoly) claim that
    the detainee provisions prohibit the military from indefinitely
    detaining American citizens. However, that doesn’t mean some other law
    enforcement agency, such as the FBI or CIA, couldn’t eternally jail
    citizens and resident aliens.Section 1031(b)(2) “includ(es) ANY
    PERSON who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported
    such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.”Jim Babka of Downsize DC asks,
    “What is a belligerent act? There have been more than 40 cases of
    alleged terrorist plots that were little more than entrapment, and not
    actual threats to the American people. The way we read it ANY of these
    entrapped people, AS WELL AS completely innocent people associated with
    them, could potentially be imprisoned without due process because of
    the vagueness of Section 1031. And Section 1032 has NOTHING to do with
    this, because it only deals with military custody.“I
    contend that every one of you should be impeached for violating your
    oath of office to uphold the Constitution of these United States of
    America for allowing this and many other pieces of legislation to
    become “law.”Though it really isn’t your fault that
    such legislation passed. I mean, why would you oppose a 900 page bill
    that funds the military when such horrible provisions are included. I
    understand that your opponents would then say you hate the troops or
    some other statement that may not be to your advantage. However, if you
    would stop putting unrelated items into legislation you wouldn’t have
    this problem. And if you posted legislation online for at least 7 days
    before the vote and announced in advance when bills would be up for a
    vote you would be able to get feedback from the people you claim to
    represent. However, I realize you aren’t interested in hearing from
    your constituents; you prefer your constituents to remain clueless
    about what you’re doing.I’m sure that many people
    will be silenced by the possibility of indefinite detention, especially
    when one considers that the FBI is working with Homeland Security,
    various State and municipal governments via Fusion Centers issuing
    “threat assessments” and “intelligent reports” listing people that
    speak out against the growing federal government as potential
    terrorists.I remember growing up being told that this
    was a “free country” where people had the right to speak out against
    the government. I was also taught that these United States were founded
    on the idea of governments are to have the “consent of the governed.” I
    never consented to a damned thing that has been done by the federal
    government, EVER.In closing, I kindly request that
    you resign your position of supposed authority, as I do not consent to
    any person or group of persons claiming to “govern” me.In Peace, Freedom, Love & Liberty,Darryl W. PerryChair Boston Tea Party National Committeehttp://BostonTea.us

    Owner/Managing Editor Free Patriot Presshttp://FreePatriot-Press.com2016 candidate for President of the United States of Americahttp://dwp2016.org
    Permission is granted to send this letter unedited with my name attachedYou can send the letter to your members of Congress here

  43. Don Lake, leaving a paper trail

    residents of Vintage Drive [Michigan] found a letter attached to their mailboxes suggesting that anyone with Christmas lights or decorations should re-think their beliefs, because Christmas displays honor the “Pagan Sun-God” and do not pertain to the birth of Jesus, according to ABC News affiliate WZZM.

    The letters start out on a friendly note, with “Hi Neighbor, you have a nice display of lights.”

    But the self-described “love note” quickly changes tone, explaining how the “pagan tradition” of putting up lights began.

    “I laughed because I think it’s ridiculous that people would get upset over Christmas lights,” said Danette Hoekman, who received the letter [Lake: don’t take your belief system very seriously, huh ?????????????]

    Besides speaking against holiday lights, the note claimed that the use of mistletoe, wreaths and yule-logs were in no way representative of Christmas.

    [Lake: wanna make folks mad, tell them the truth!]

  44. paulie Post author

    Thanks for the heads up, I read it.

    The only mention of me is a rather boring reference by Milnes.

    Overall, Tiffany Briscoe sounds reasonable and assuming I have internet access during the BTP convention I’ll vote for her. Linnabary or Johnson would be fine for VP.

    Not sure whether any of them have any realistic ballot access plans. They are welcome to call me at 415-690-6352 if they want to talk about it. Briscoe sounds like she has at least thought about it, but it doesn’t sound like she has any experience with it in the real world. Milnes, as usual, expects manna from heaven.

    For the benefit of the candidates, of the three states where BTP had ballot access last time, I had a lot to do with two of them.

  45. Don Lake, leaving a paper trail

    AS POSTED TO CITIZENS FOR A BETTER VETERANS HOME:

    Bill of Rights: Born Dec. 15, 1791 – Died Dec. 15, 2011

    http://targetfreedom.com/american-concentration-camps/bill-of-rights-born-dec-15-1791-died-dec-15-2011/

    Happy Bill of Rights Day. The controlled media is not reporting this. ASK THEM WHY NOT?

    Americans can be detained without due process Bill – S.1867
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EpJ8gGcDRs&feature=share

    You, as an American citizen, can now be held
    without charges and indefinitely detained. You can
    also be sent to another country to be tortured. You
    are subject to secret arrest and may not have access
    to legal council. Your family members are not entitled
    to know your where abouts.

    Obama Signs NDAA Martial Law
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-e7z7S6VI&feature=player_embedded

    “The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
    — Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials.

    What Adolph Hitler did was LEGAL, in Germany, when he did it.
    What Stalin did was LEGAL, in Russia, when he did it.
    What Mao did was LEGAL, in China, when he did it.
    NOW THOSE SAME THINGS ARE LEGAL IN AMERICA.

    A Day In The Park – coming soon

  46. paulie Post author

    Paulie tracked down electors for the BTP in Florida.

    Yep, signatures and electors in TN and voter regs and electors in FL. Side trips by Andy and myself while we were getting signatures for Barr, Baldwin and Nader in Alabama. I also made a side trip to Louisiana to get Moore (Socialist) on the ballot there, and almost did the same in Mississippi, but miscalculated the drive time.

    However, Moore and Jay (BTP) had money and could pay us. Not sure yet if Briscoe does, or knows she needs to. She mentions owning a business or two, but that doesn’t mean she necessarily has money. And even if she does, she may not know how ballot access really goes in the real world. Many people try to reinvent the flat tire all the time, even in big money campaigns. I guess we’ll see.

  47. Thomas L. Knapp

    @86,

    I was hoping that after 2008, the BTP would organically develop ballot access by having active state affiliates.

    Not necessarily “all-volunteer” stuff — I recognize the value and sometimes the outright necessity of paid petitioners — but not having to do a top-down ballot access effort or have the presidential campaign take care of it.

    Obviously that didn’t happen.

    My impression has been that as chair of the BTP, Darryl has done his best to emphasize the structural importance of ballot access and get members motivated to complete the associated tasks. But that hasn’t happened.

    Experiments don’t “fail.” It’s just that the information they return may vary significantly from what you’d hoped or expected to see. At this point, the “create a central funding and operational mechanism for ballot access” model greatly excels the BTP model.

  48. FKC

    I also made a side trip to Louisiana to get Moore (Socialist) on the ballot there

    National Socialist or International Socialist?

  49. Peter Orvetti

    Politico is reporting that Gary Johnson “will quit the Republican primaries and seek the Libertarian Party presidential nomination instead. … The former two-term New Mexico governor, whose campaign for the GOP nomination never caught fire, will make the announcement at a press conference in Santa Fe on Monday. Libertarian state directors will be informed of Johnson’s plans on a conference call Tuesday night, a Johnson campaign source told POLITICO. “

  50. Darryl W. Perry

    I was hoping that after 2008, the BTP would organically develop ballot access by having active state affiliates.

    I was hoping the same, I’ve contacted politically active people in several States trying to get new affiliates and currently inactive affiliates active again. So far, to no avail.

    Though on the bright side, a State Representative in New Hampshire has joined the party, however since he was elected as a Republican he has not authorized the release of his identity. However, it’s always good to hve friends in high(er) places!

  51. Anonymous BTP Member

    FWIW, my recommendations for the BTP Presidential and Vice Presidential Nominating Convention.

    President
    One candidate seeking the Presidential nomination has essentially made this election a referendum on an alliance strategy that he has been promoting for several years.
    Another candidate’s “claim to fame” is a youtube video of stumbling through a speech while seeking the GOP nomination for county treasurer in Ohio.
    The third candidate, thus far, seems to have solid libertarian positions, however it is unknown what (if any) fund raising ability she has.

    There are several solid libertarians and long-time party members who have been nominated and seconded – so far, none have stated they wish to seek the BTP nomination.
    Currently, I suggest casting a ballot for Briscoe and NOTA.

    Vice President
    One candidate for the VP nomination has tried to make the election a referendum on his fantasy government.
    The other two candidates are both solid libertarians, one is even a current member of the BTP National Committee.

    I suggest casting a ballot for Johnson and Linnabary.

  52. William Saturn

    @91

    To grow the party, it would be advantageous to have a candidate with name recognition.

    People would be more likely to sign a petition for someone they’ve seen on television or the internet, instead of someone that can type libertarian talking points.

    Phil Davison’s appearances on Tosh.0 and YouTube were seen by millions. He is a charismatic and likable guy. The perfect candidate for a minor party.

  53. Anonymous BTP Member

    @92 – you are aware that people watched that video to laugh at him, right?
    And he appeared on Tosh.0 to be made fun of, again!

    Contrary to popular opinion: NOT ALL PUBLICITY IS GOOD PUBLICITY!

  54. George Phillies

    My state committee spoke last Sunday to a Libertarian Congressional candidate. He had spoken to the LNC office. He was left with the impression that they told him not to raise more than $5000 so that he could avoid dealing with the FEC.

    If true, this would be about the stupidest political advice I have ever heard, and would be an adequate rationale for shutting down a large part of that operation.

    I am amused to note that the new LNC Executive Director raised huge amounts of money for her Federal campaign (helped by running against a Republican who had his nominating papers challenged unsuccessfully by the REPUBLICAN state committee), all dutifully reported to the FEC. Perhaps in this respect the future will be brighter.

  55. William Saturn

    @93

    Yes, some people laughed at him, but why would that prevent them from signing a petition to get him on the ballot?

    Moreover, a great number of people are inspired by his passion.

    If you want the party to grow and receive media coverage, then vote for Phil Davison.

    If you want the party’s libertarian goals to be voiced by someone who can command attention, then vote for Phil Davison.

  56. ctomp

    Is Phil Davison actually running? He didn’t participate in the debate, nor has he actively particpated in BTP forums, whereas both Briscoe and Milnes have. In fact, I only read about his candidacy when it is brought up by Mr. Saturn.

  57. Joe Schmo

    William Saturn,

    Have you ever gathered petitions?

    It does not really matter that much who they are for unless it is someone who is a household name, and then it can work against you just as much as for you.

    Otherwise you can make up a name and do as well as the level of “celebrity” you are talking about.

    Briscoe sounds more in tune with BTP anyway.

  58. William Saturn

    Yes. Davison is running, but his computer is not currently working. He is not the most technologically-savvy individual.

    However, once he gets in campaign mode, he will receive media requests. He will put this party and its message out there for the people to see.

    Phil Davison has affirmed his support for the platform of the BTP. That is the message he will promote. Someone like Briscoe simply types libertarian talking points that people want to hear. That’s meaningless if no one is listening.

    If you have someone that is articulate, likable, and intelligent that commands media attention like Phil Davison, there exists the possibly for the Ross Perot effect.

  59. William Saturn

    I’m not comparing Davison to Perot. He doesn’t have billions of dollars. I am talking about the Perot effect on a very small scale, which would still significantly enlarge the party.

  60. William Saturn

    That would certainly be an improvement. Any kind of growth would be helpful. However, I don’t think there’s any question that if Briscoe is nominated, there will be no growth; the party will remain stagnant.

  61. 99 percenter

    I doubt Davison would grow the party any more than Briscoe would, it will remain tiny in either case.

  62. 99 percenter

    Yes. Davison is running, but his computer is not currently working. He is not the most technologically-savvy individual.

    So how can we confirm that he is in fact running other than your say so?

  63. William Saturn

    The problem with Briscoe is that she is camera-shy. I doubt there’ll be any significant media coverage.

    You must base the argument of media coverage on past success. Davison has received extensive media coverage in the past. Briscoe has not received any.

    There is a much stronger opportunity and possibility for the party to grow significantly if Davison is nominated.

  64. Common Tater

    Why do you think she’s camera shy?

    Maybe she just hasn’t gotten around to doing interviews yet?

  65. William Saturn

    I would liken the BTP situation to the Prohibition Party situation from earlier this year.

    As many here know, the Prohibition Party had a candidate named Jim Hedges who had received some press coverage and was the first Prohibition Party member to hold elected office since 1959. Instead of nominating Hedges, who would have received additional media coverage, the party nominated the unknown Jack Fellure, based strictly on his ideology.

    As a result, the party has thus far received no media attention, have not campaigned and have not worked on ballot access.

    That is the fate of the BTP if it nominates someone like Briscoe instead of someone like Davison, who can command media coverage for the party.

  66. Kleptocracy And You

    I have an idea. You guys get back into the LP full bore and make a difference in your area. Splinter groups lead to more splinter groups (ie. multi-Socialist Parties) why do you think there are so many churches in each little town in the south? Middle Class or lower doesn’t have the juice to start a successful political party in these times. Tilting at windmills isn’t very productive (or fun). No ballot access and NO money means NO influence anyway !!! Grow a thicker hide and get back into the local LP and ACTIVATE. This could be an especially interesting year.

    @94 that SUCKS, was it the LNC or Root’s led group LNCC?

    @115 Dr.Paul’s surge in the polls means he will be catching HEAVY flak from the WAR MACHINE’s overpaid lazy lackeys in the media? You folkes who scoff at conspiracies can watch it at it’s finest over the next few weeks as they (Kleptocracy) attempt to (and probably will) DESTROY Dr.Paul. Paul is loyal to a fault. He should give up the writer’s name (cough-LewRockwell) to the media and let that fine fellow answer to the wolves ! (And to be honest wouldn’t you prefer Paul’s finger near that trigger than anyone else appearing in the R debates?)

    “Wag the Dog”, watch this movie again !

    Mr.Saturn @ too numerous to list. Is this Davison your illigit child, or sometime or wanna be lover or what? You seem to be a one man fanclub for the guy! No ballot access, NO INFLUENCE. Nominate anyone, it matters very little.

    In very late 2011 with over half the nation on some type of perscription high and another nice % on illegal highs and christian grannys and gramps put on a glass of wine a day to improve their health, does the world really need a PROHIBITION party ?

    The more voices for liberty the better !
    The Libertarian Quad on the Nolan Chart has much room and does encompass MILLIONS of people who don’t realize they are in that quadrant. BIG tent LIBERTARIANISM is the best way. Get’em in, then you can purify them !!!!!!

    Are you a libertarian?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAiYlaGxyV0&feature=related

    “… Political Correctness remains just what it was intended to be: a sophisticated and dangerous form of censorship and oppression, imposed upon the citizenry with the ultimate goal of manipulating, brainwashing and destroying our society.” — NewsMax.com

  67. John Billingsley

    The following are the first three candidates that have announced they will seek the Reform Party’s presidential nomination:

    *Andre Barnett (New York) – IT consultant, fitness model & Army veteran.

    *Robert David Steele (Virginia) – Ex-CIA officer, non-profit group founder & USMC veteran.

    *Robby Wells (North Carolina) – Ex-college football coach, motivational speaker, businessman & National Guard veteran.

    The following are expected to announce in the next few months:

    *Frank McEnulty (California) – 2008 VP nominee.

    *Bobby Klingler (Pennyslvania) – NAIP activist.

    There are currently efforts to draft the following individuals:

    * Buddy Roemer (Louisiana) – Republican candidate.

    * Dick Lamm (Colorado) – Democratic former Governor, 1996 presidential contender.

  68. George Phillies

    Some of you may recall Oregon. The bill for the interesting letter from the Oregon Legal ballot experts has surfaced, as a reimbursement to…for an amount in the mid-four-digit range which I could quote exactly.

    I have inquired of LNC members as to when or under which route (e..g, fundraising for new building, whatever) they voted to spend the money, and am waiting for answers.

  69. Common Tater

    BTP poll, I voted for Briscoe for President. Linnabary and Johnson for VP.

    Ranking NOTA above Ogle, Milnes and Davison.

    Early returns looks like Briscoe/Johnson will be the ticket.

  70. Common Tater

    That’s Tiffany Briscoe and Kimberly Johnson for anyone who doesn’t already know and may actually care.

  71. Common Tater

    @120 You can forget about Dick Lamm, he recently said he does not want to “spoil” Obama’s chances, which sounds rather senile.

  72. William Saturn

    @120 I talked to Buddy Roemer’s campaign manager. He doesn’t seem interested in the Reform Party.

  73. John Billingsley

    I think that McEnulty/Wells is the strongest ticket that the Reform Party can muster. Ted Weill had wanted to run again in 2012, and with his finances could probably have gotten on many ballots, had he not passed away.

  74. john c jackson

    Why is the BTP using force against candidates? Is the BTP like the LP with more tolerance of violence?

  75. DWP - PLEASE COME HOME

    Is it true Milnes has requested a recount ?

    Fourteen votes get you a POTUS nomination. WOW who would of thunk it !!!

    DWP – resign young man and come home to the LP, you are too intelligent to squander yourself this far on the FRINGES.

  76. Libertarian Party Needs Your Support

    Remember – if it is to be, it is up to me{YOU}

    Dear Friend of Liberty,

    Will you donate to help fund ballot access petition drives in New Hampshire and South Dakota {and across America} ?

    https://www.lp.org/contribute

    We’re starting these petition drives for full party access early so we can get them out of the way efficiently before the frantic peak period in 2012. Most states don’t allow us to start this early.

    The Libertarian National Committee recently approved $28,000 for New Hampshire and $22,000 for South Dakota. Those state parties will kick in additional funds, and they will also have volunteers help collect signatures.

    The Libertarian Party is famous for making it onto the ballot time and time again. Having candidates on the ballot is why we get so much publicity compared to other parties like the Green Party and Constitution Party.

    Currently, the LP is qualified for the 2012 presidential ballot in 29 states, while the Green Party is on in 16 states, and the Constitution Party in 12 states.

    Petitioning is hard work, but we have some great petitioners who collect signatures and also advertise our party as a result.
    Please donate to support these petition drives.

    https://www.lp.org/contribute

    Sincerely,
    Wes Benedict

    Carla Howell
    Executive Director
    Libertarian National Committee
    carla.howell@lp.org.

  77. NewFederalist

    “Fourteen votes get you a POTUS nomination. WOW who would of thunk it !!!”

    I think it took less that that for the Prohibition nomination.

  78. Darryl W. Perry

    @134 – I am a life member of the LP. I believe the BTP can serve the purpose of keeping the LP true to the libertarian ideology. If a certain faction of the LP is successful in “redefining” libertarian, then the more radical members have a place to go.

  79. George Phillies

    It seems that the character who called on Facebook for President Obama’s assassination is now saying he plans to run for office as a Democrat, proposing to increase California taxes to cover pension obligations. Suggestions that he was a Libertarian have apparently faded in favor of his being a Tes Party supporter.

  80. Jill Pyeatt

    George # 141: His FB page says he’s a Constitutionalist. Alan and I are both Los Angeles County Libertarians, and we’ve never heard of him. Apparently, almost no one has. He also has never been a member of the CA LP.

  81. Robert Capozzi

    138 dwp: …keeping the LP true to the libertarian ideology.

    me: Is it etched on a tablet? Were burning bushes involved?

  82. Catholic Trotskyist

    The Boston Tea Party made a significant mistake by not nominating the inspiring motivational speaker Phil Davison. Davison seems by all indications to be a libertarian, and millions of people have indeed heard of him. While a lot of people made fun of him, nobody actually hates him, unlike Obama, Romney, Gingrich, Root, Paul, Baldwin etc. In these times of great anger and difficulty, we need an inspiring and fiery orator like Davison on the national stage, to contrast with the more understated oratory of Obama and of the largely boring Republicans. With Brisco they will get nowhere. I also think Milnes or Ogle should have been VP. They are both great and underappreciated political philosophers of our time. God will surely punish the BTP for wasting this opportunity. I even thought of registering with the BTP fraudulently to participate in the election, but decided not to. Oh well I guess it wasn’t close. Merry Christmas; please pray for the Pope and please pray for Barack Obama, amen.

  83. Libertarian Party Needs Your Support

    NAACP Austin TX Director Nelson Linder speaks on Ron Paul NAACP President Nelson Linder is interviewed explaining why he does not believe Ron Paul is a racist.
    “The two party system has failed us…”

    IM OFFICIALLY ENDORSING RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT IN 2012 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eukFNN44ibM&feature=related

    Last {Sept.} the Libertarian National Committee voted to give $50,000 to Ed Coleman’s re-election campaign for Indianapolis City-County Council. Ed Coleman is currently the highest partisan elected Libertarian in America, and I’m very hopeful about his re-election. But now I’ve got a $50,000 hole to fill!
    Please help {us} out!
    Please…make a donation…by…this weekend,
    visit LP.org and donate online.

    Thanks and take care. Sincerely,

    Wes Benedict {former}
    Executive Director
    Libertarian National Committee
    Please call 202-333-0008 x222
    P.S. If you have not already done so, please join the Libertarian Party. We are the only political party dedicated to free markets, civil liberties, and peace. You can also renew your membership. Or, you can make a contribution separate from membership
    carla.howell@lp.org.

  84. George Phillies

    @148 Something seems to have scrambled in message delays here. Coleman’s election was *last month*. He *lost*. Of course, he was running against a Republican incumbent — he switched from at-large to District — who was so entrenched the Democrats did not bother to field a candidate. His TV ads that we appear to have paid for did not mention our party name, and almost did not mention any issues at all.

    On the other hand, between disbursements and debts on FEC forms, we spent $7000+ on the Oregon issue, to no apparent outcome.

  85. Darryl W. Perry

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    23 December 2011 – bostontea.us
    The Boston Tea Party’s Presidential Nominating Convention concluded after 2 days with the Vice Presidential nomination going to a 2nd round of balloting.

    Tiffany Briscoe (Maryland) was chosen as the Presidential nominee on the first round of voting. Kimberly Johnson (Arizona) was chosen as the Vice Presidential nominee on the 2nd round of voting.

    BTP Chair, Darryl W. Perry says, “I would like to thank those of you who voted in the Presidential Nominating Convention. I would like to congratulate Tiffany Briscoe winning the BTP Presidential and Kimberly Johnson on winning the Vice Presidential nomination. You two ladies will represent the party well in the 2012 election.”

    Additionally, it is estimated that the BTP will attempt to obtain ballot access in as many as 15 States and will attempt to have the Presidential ticket as a certified write-in candidate in the remaining States(excepting Oklahoma which does not allow write-in votes).

    Ms. Briscoe’s website is http://tiffanybriscoe2012.weebly.com

    The Boston Tea Party was founded in 2006 with a one sentence platform, “The Boston Tea Party supports reducing the size, scope and power of government at all levels and on all issues, and opposes increasing the size, scope and power of government at any level, for any purpose.” In October 2008, the party’s National Convention adopted the four point program of the Campaign for Liberty. Their program calls for an end to overseas occupation, a restoration of privacy and other liberties, no increase in the national debt, and a thorough review of the Federal Reserve. During the 2010 convention the Party adopted a new program to End the Wars of Aggression, End the Fed, End the War on Drugs, End the Abuses of Liberty, End the Immigration Fiasco.

  86. TinFoilCap, Facemask & JockeyShorts to Match

    @63 ……..When I mentioned “bestiality” I was referring to animals, not humans (Note: some statutes prohibiting bestiality include children within the definition.) Bestiality as a victimless crime would center on two elements: 1. “property rights” – limiting the practice to one’s own animals or with wild animals (not owned by anyone) and 2. “consent” and/or “non-injury” – if the animal is willing and is not injured in the process. If the animal is already dead, the victimless crime would become a variant of necromancy, and have to be analyzed in a similar fashion. I’m not a practitioner or advocate of bestiality and am only trying to apply Libertarian principles to a seldom discussed victimless crime.

    These statements were quickly picked up by leaders in the Zoosexual community and many came forward to support Carl Person’s campaign for President. They even adopted the following slogan:

    What can you do
    If you’re a Zoo?
    Support Carl Person
    He’ll fight for you!

    Liberty Lion reported these developments because it was news involving a candidate seeking the Libertarian Party’s Presidential Nomination………

    @145 -You understand Milnes has published on his official website that the FBI and a local news female reporter (a similar fixation has got him federal pen time in the past) is watching him masturbate through his TV set on a regular basis? And you write

    “I also think Milnes or Ogle should have been VP. They are both great and underappreciated political philosophers of our time. God will surely punish the BTP for wasting this opportunity.”

    You sir or madam are a poor judge of character and are ready to not only receive a cap, mask and shorts BUT a STRAITJACKET as well.

  87. TinFoilCap, Facemask & JockeyShorts to Match

    @67 – In case you missed this very important post, you need to look again. The Council on Foreign Relations run the USA, how many examples do you need to be awaken from your slumber ?!!!!!!!!!

    ” Who the Candidate Ejection Committee is
    So who will be sitting on this candidate ejection committee? Americans Elect has just named the first three committee members. They are:

    Larry Diamond
    — Professor of Sociology and Political Science, Stanford University
    — Member, Council on Foreign Relations

    William Webster
    — Former Chairman of the Board, RAND Corporation
    — Former Director, FBI
    — Former Director, CIA
    — Chairman, Homeland Security and Advisory Council to the United States Goverment
    — Member, Council on Foreign Relations

    James Thomson
    — Former staffer, National Security Council and Department of Defense
    — President of RAND Corporation until last month
    — Member, Council on Foreign Relations

    What is the RAND Corporation? It’s an ostensibly independent non-profit organization that was founded by the U.S. Air Force, is funded by seven different units of the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Security, and houses three different federally funded research and development centers on military matters.

    All on the Council on Foreign Relations. One a major intelligence chief. Another a major player in military policy and research contracts. What interesting choices to decide what presidential candidates the rest of us should be able to choose between. ”

    FYI – the CFR has picked your “choices” all your lives, but you might not have realized it. Know your enemy my friends!

    “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge — even to ourselves — that we’ve been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.)” – Carl Sagan

    “The dirty little secret is that both houses of Congress are irrelevant. … America’s domestic policy is now being run by Alan Greenspan and the Federal Reserve, and America’s foreign policy is now being run by the International Monetary Fund [IMF]. …when the president decides to go to war, he no longer needs a declaration of war from Congress.” – Robert Reich, Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton

    “The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses.” – Albert Einstein

    “These international bankers and Rockefeller Standard Oil interests control the majority of newspapers and the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of public office officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government.” – Theodore Roosevelt

    “In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press….They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.” – Congressman Oscar Callaway …in the Congressional Record…
    “who controls and censors the media?”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEjyWtmRNI&feature=related

    “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto-determination practiced in past centuries.” – David Rockefeller

    “For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” – David Rockefeller …in his memoirs…

    “I am delighted to be here in these new [Council on Foreign Relations] headquarters. I have been often to, I guess, the mother ship in New York City, but it’s good to have an outpost of the Council right here down the street from the State Department. We get a lot of advice from the Council, so this will mean I won’t have as far to go to be told what we should be doing and how we should think about the future.” – Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State, 7/15/2009
    `~CFR – Council on Foreign Relations Hillary Clinton tells who gives the orders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-sUywS0FJ4&feature=fvwrel

    “The Council on Foreign Relations is the American branch of a society which originated in England … [and] … believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule established.” – Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton said Quigley was his mentor during 1993 Inaugural Address), speaking of the Globalists’ American political strategy since the early twentieth century.

    “There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years in the early 1960s to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies … but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.” – Carroll Quigley.
    (Bill Clinton said Quigley was his mentor during 1993 Inaugural Address)

    “In a small Swiss city sits an international organization so obscure and secretive…. Control of the institution, the Bank for International Settlements, lies with some of the world’s most powerful and least visible men: the heads of 32 central banks, officials able to shift billions of dollars and alter the course of economies at the stroke of a pen.” – Keith Bradsher – New York Times bureau chief

    “The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds’ central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups.” – Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton said Quigley was his mentor during 1993 Inaugural Address)

    You must understand the past before you will understand the present.
    The Truth will set you Free!
    True World History.info: http://www.trueworldhistory.info/

    Rockerfeller and the rest of his gang are all generational practising Satanists. Thats all anyone really needs to know coz everything that spews from their mouths is lies? and flies.
    -rushkagon on youtube 5

    The only risk to? the biosphere we live in is vermon like David Rockefeller, these nazis need to find another planet to live on.
    -infamos on youtube

  88. TinFoilCap, Facemask & JockeyShorts to Match

    @67 – In case you missed this very important post, you need to look again. The Council on Foreign Relations run the USA, how many examples do you need to be awaken from your slumber ?!!!!!!!!!

    ” Who the Candidate Ejection Committee is
    So who will be sitting on this candidate ejection committee? Americans Elect has just named the first three committee members. They are:

    Larry Diamond
    — Professor of Sociology and Political Science, Stanford University
    — Member, Council on Foreign Relations

    William Webster
    — Former Chairman of the Board, RAND Corporation
    — Former Director, FBI
    — Former Director, CIA
    — Chairman, Homeland Security and Advisory Council to the United States Goverment
    — Member, Council on Foreign Relations

    James Thomson
    — Former staffer, National Security Council and Department of Defense
    — President of RAND Corporation until last month
    — Member, Council on Foreign Relations

    What is the RAND Corporation? It’s an ostensibly independent non-profit organization that was founded by the U.S. Air Force, is funded by seven different units of the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Security, and houses three different federally funded research and development centers on military matters.

    All on the Council on Foreign Relations. One a major intelligence chief. Another a major player in military policy and research contracts. What interesting choices to decide what presidential candidates the rest of us should be able to choose between. ”

    FYI – the CFR has picked your “choices” all your lives, but you might not have realized it. Know your enemy my friends!

    “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge — even to ourselves — that we’ve been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.)” – Carl Sagan

    “The dirty little secret is that both houses of Congress are irrelevant. … America’s domestic policy is now being run by Alan Greenspan and the Federal Reserve, and America’s foreign policy is now being run by the International Monetary Fund [IMF]. …when the president decides to go to war, he no longer needs a declaration of war from Congress.” – Robert Reich, Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton

    “The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses.” – Albert Einstein

    “These international bankers and Rockefeller Standard Oil interests control the majority of newspapers and the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of public office officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government.” – Theodore Roosevelt

    “In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press….They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.” – Congressman Oscar Callaway …in the Congressional Record…
    “who controls and censors the media?”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEjyWtmRNI&feature=related

    “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto-determination practiced in past centuries.” – David Rockefeller

    “For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” – David Rockefeller …in his memoirs…

    “I am delighted to be here in these new [Council on Foreign Relations] headquarters. I have been often to, I guess, the mother ship in New York City, but it’s good to have an outpost of the Council right here down the street from the State Department. We get a lot of advice from the Council, so this will mean I won’t have as far to go to be told what we should be doing and how we should think about the future.” – Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State, 7/15/2009
    `~CFR – Council on Foreign Relations Hillary Clinton tells who gives the orders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-sUywS0FJ4&feature=fvwrel

    “The Council on Foreign Relations is the American branch of a society which originated in England … [and] … believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule established.” – Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton said Quigley was his mentor during 1993 Inaugural Address), speaking of the Globalists’ American political strategy since the early twentieth century.

    “There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years in the early 1960s to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies … but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.” – Carroll Quigley.
    (Bill Clinton said Quigley was his mentor during 1993 Inaugural Address)

    “In a small Swiss city sits an international organization so obscure and secretive…. Control of the institution, the Bank for International Settlements, lies with some of the world’s most powerful and least visible men: the heads of 32 central banks, officials able to shift billions of dollars and alter the course of economies at the stroke of a pen.” – Keith Bradsher – New York Times bureau chief

    “The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds’ central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups.” – Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton said Quigley was his mentor during 1993 Inaugural Address)

    You must understand the past before you will understand the present.
    The Truth will set you Free!
    True World History.info: http://www.trueworldhistory.info/

    Rockerfeller and the rest of his gang are all generational practising Satanists. Thats all anyone really needs to know coz everything that spews from their mouths is lies? and flies.
    -rushkagon on youtube 5

    The only risk to? the biosphere we live in is vermon like David Rockefeller, these nazis need to find another planet to live on.
    -infamos on youtube

    A Merry Holidays to all and to all a goodnight……..

  89. Vop Osili

    A message from George Phillies

    In 2010, Indianans had a 3- way Secretary of State race, which determines ballot access.

    Libertarian Mike Wherry got 6% of the vote. Democrat Vop Osili got a whole pile of votes. And Republican Charlie White, well, he may not have been legally registered to vote at the time, in whcih case he was ineligible to run, so instead of winning he may have received zero votes, not to mention a series of indictments.

    So a Judge has ruled. That now going to their state Supreme Court. If the ruling is sustained, Indiana will have two major parties, Democratic and Libertarian, Republicans will have to petition for ballot access, and if successful will appear third or later on the ballot.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/23/1048083/-Good-Grief,-Charlie-White!-Why-a-Court-Ruling-in-Indiana-Could-Have-National-Implications

    for more details.

    It wouldn’t happen to three nicer groups of people.

  90. Catholic Trotskyist

    Lots of great political minds have had personal scandals of one sort of another. Now on the other hand, I realize after more thought that Milnes and Ogle may not have accepted a nomination to run with Davison because of their belief in Opposite Gender #1. My apologies. The Catholic Trotskyist Party may in fact take Perry

  91. Catholic Trotskyist

    take Perry’s advice and nominate Davison ourselves, with a Catholic traditional conservative but anti-war but pro-poor woman as VP (maybe Sister Helen Prejean)? Blessings to all for the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as we observe the last of the Advent season 2011.

  92. Libertarian Party Needs Your Support

    I will try this one more time, the link hasn’t printed before

    NAACP Austin TX Director Nelson Linder speaks on Ron Paul- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhv3paNz6U Linder is interviewed explaining why he does not believe Ron Paul is a racist. He also stated:
    “The two party system has failed us…”

    @150 – Last {Sept.} the Libertarian National Committee voted to give $50,000 to Ed Coleman’s re-election campaign for Indianapolis City-County Council. Ed Coleman is currently the highest partisan elected Libertarian in America, and I’m very hopeful about his re-election. {they also spent over $7,000 on legal fees pertaining to the OR situation} But now I’ve got a $50,000 {$57,000 +} hole to fill!
    Please help {us} out! {The HOLES must be filled}
    Please…make a {generous} donation…by…this weekend {or Dec.31},
    visit LP.org and donate online.
    { http://www.lp.org }

    Thanks and take care. Sincerely,

    Wes Benedict {former}
    Executive Director
    Libertarian National Committee
    Please call 202-333-0008 x222
    P.S. If you have not already done so, please join the Libertarian Party. We are the only political party dedicated to free markets, civil liberties, and peace. You can also renew your membership. Or, you can make a contribution separate from membership { http://www.lp.org }

    The Year long online goal of $400,000 is within reach, won’t you help today !?!

    carla.howell@lp.org.

  93. Rob Banks

    Ed Coleman is currently the highest partisan elected Libertarian in America, and I’m very hopeful about his re-election.

    He was defeated for election to a different office, IIRC he got 23 to 24% of the vote. Ed Coleman will no longer be the highest partisan elected Libertarian because he will not be in office at all.

  94. Rob Banks

    @155

    “The best thing about quotes you see attributed to people on the internet is that you always know the attribution is accurate” – Abraham Lincoln

  95. Rob Banks

    @156

    Ballot Access News : UPDATE: however, the Daily Kos author seems unaware that in 2011, the Indiana legislature passed HB 1242, which says that when a state recount commission makes a final determination that a candidate for Secretary of State is not eligible, that determination does not affect the validity of the votes cast. Thanks to Rick Hasen for the link.

  96. Vop Osili

    @162 The determination was not made by a state ballot access commission, and appears to be a post facto law.

    The State Supreme Court will get to decide.

  97. Darryl W. Perry

    @135 – Milnes just sent me an email stating that someone hacking his website, removing “btp & ipr & paulie related comments.” And asked if I “have the capability to conduct a forensic investigation of [his] website”.

  98. Marc Montoni

    Vop Osili said:

    @162 The determination was not made by a state ballot access commission, and appears to be a post facto law… The State Supreme Court will get to decide.

    Unfortunately, since every supreme court is made up of political appointees, they will always vote for the duopoly.

    This has happened in the past in other states, such as in Virginia in 1990 (see page 4 of the cite). Establishment elite corruptocrats *always* take care of their own.

  99. paulie Post author

    Milnes just sent me an email stating that someone hacking his website, removing “btp & ipr & paulie related comments.” And asked if I “have the capability to conduct a forensic investigation of [his] website”.

    As of the last time I checked there are still plenty of comments on those subjects on his site, but his most recent updates have been erased.

    I emailed him a somewhat more recent version of his site, containing the missing stuff from most of November and early December.

    If anyone has a more recent version than that you can email it to him.

  100. Darryl W. Perry

    Milnes just notified me that he is “considering filing a complaint with FEC. So far it would only cover my campaign webpage being tampered with. Where it goes from there I do not know.”

  101. Humongous Fungus

    email from Tom Stevens:

    In an e-mail to Vermont Libertarian Party State Committee Members, Chris Costanzo,
    Past State Chair, says Carl Person’s campaign for the Libertarian Party’s Presidential
    Nomination has nothing to do with libertarianism and likens him to an Upholstery Flea:

    http://drtomstevens.blogspot.com/2011/12/chris-costanzo-state-chair-of-vermont.html

    Many have called for Carl Person to withdraw from the race given his views in
    support of the expansion of the role of government in people’s lives but so far
    he has resisted and has reiterated his desire to discuss his “brand” of libertarianism
    with convention delegates and the media.

    In Liberty,

    Dr. Tom Stevens
    LPQC Political Director

  102. Losty

    #150 To George..

    Just Think how much more name recognition the LP would have gotten if they dumped 25K of that into KY Treasurer with Ken Moellman..

    Not a Win, But maybe 10-20 points, and a foundation of a party..

    As it is, He was Balance of Power in that race..

  103. wolfefan

    This article builds upon the one I mentioned in #156 –

    http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/25/the-right-way-for-ron-paul-to-respond-to

    The desire for LP candidates to build ties with fringe conservatives continues, as many here have noted. As with the efforts that led to Ron Paul’s newsletter problems, the conservatives that people these days are trying to court are the same ones that people like Barry Goldwater tried to run out of the conservative movement in the 1960’s. Goldwater, Wm. Buckley and others made a concerted (and successful) effort to isolate and marginalize the John Birch Society and other similar groups.

    The irony is that now some Libertarians seek to make common cause with these same groups in the name of Goldwater-style libertarian conservatism. Will these efforts come back to bite some other candidate 20 or 30 years down the road?

  104. john c jackson

    @131,

    Briscoe was “forced” to post a picture to be evaluated by the BTP Boys Club. I guess she didn’t have a modeling portfolio like that broad that ran LP in ’08.

  105. Rob Banks

    JCJ 177

    Can you name any male presidential candidates whose visage remains a mystery? Even Milnes has his mug on his site, even if it isn’t doing him any favors.

    And Briscoe wasn’t forced to do anything; if she wished to run while remaining mysterious about her appearance, she could have done so and dealt with the consequences – perhaps, losing.

  106. wolfefan

    two things –
    1) in #176, I should have referred to #166, not #156. Confused yet?

    2) re: pictures of the BTP candidates, one of the things that Jeremy Young commented on in his review of LP candidate websites was the availability (or not) of a photo and how flattering the photo was to the candidate. These were all male candidates. The desire to see a photo need not be sexist although it certainly can be.

  107. Steven R Linnabary

    @56:

    Because of scheduling conflicts (IN,TN & WA), the Ohio convention date has been moved to the following weekend, March 30, 31 & April 1).

    I believe we are now in conflict with only the Maine convention.

    The POTUS debate will still be on Sunday morning. The LNC candidate forum will follow the business portion on Saturday morning.

    PEACE

  108. Humongous Fungus

    Steve Collett writes:

    Ron Paul’s recent surge in the polls and Gary Johnson’s move to join the Libertarian Party are two reasons for libertarians everywhere to rejoice. Despite a failure of mainstream media to give either candidate coverage proportional to their political following, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are beneficiaries of alternative media sources which do not pander to the special interests.

    Listening to candidates like Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney preach support for more military spending in a country with 5% of the world’s population that already incurs 43% of total world defense dollars, it is clear that their campaigns seek or already have military industrial complex money. Listening to every other candidate except Ron Paul and Gary Johnson express support for our failed war on drugs in a country that already incarcerates its citizens at a rate five times higher than most every other industrialized country, it is clear that the others seek or have support from prison industrial complex money. Watching Barack Obama support Wall Street bailouts, you know that his billion dollar campaign seeks and has support from bank and Wall Street money.

    Like the Arab spring that is transforming the political landscape of North Africa, internet technology is offering Americans an alternative source of information not grounded in the special interests of the military industrial complex, prison industrial complex or Wall Street. The internet is exposing the failure of military interventionist policies, the failure of our war on drugs, and the failure of corporate bailouts to stimulate job growth. Alternative media is exposing special interests that drain our Treasury and violate our rights.

    In Ralph Nader’s words, “information is the currency of democracy.” Television and print media can choose to downplay the candidacies of Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. They can cover those who preach intolerance and war. But they will lose market share to sources that show the truth. We cannot sustain military and drug war spending where every dollar spent requires more dollars spent.

    Like the Arab spring, there will be battles won and battles lost. But candidates and policies that support wasted tax dollars and trespass against notions of common decency are destined to the dustbins of history.

  109. Jose C

    @ 184 – Gary Johnson has no significant support within the Republican Party. This is why he has not received much media coverage and why he has not been invited to participate in the Republican Party debates. This is why he is leaving the Republican Party and joining the Libertarian Party.

  110. 2010--10th warmest year

    and warmest with a Pacific Ocean Circulation event.

    The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature people have released their detailed analysis, of five times as many temperature series as anyone else has used, confirming that we are indeed having long-term global warming. You can get their actual data sets at

    http://berkeleyearth.org/data/

    Note that this is a billion numbers and other results so that the files are a bit large.

    The folks who are claiming that the data sets are kept secret are, well, wrong. Note that measurements believed in error or unreliable have been flagged, not removed, though anyone who includes the five thousand degrees high temperature report is likely going to get inaccurate results.

    The UK results that were attacked by the people who gained the large email files — which UK newspapers concluded did not say what the gainers were claiming — is noteworthy for showing somewhat less temperature increase than the other analyses. Removing allegedly second-rate temperature stations had no significant effect. A detailed analysis of urban heat island effects showed that they did not matter.

    By the way, the Earth: It’s not flat, either.

    George Phillies

  111. NewFederalist

    I only asked because you seem to hold your opinion very strongly. I am just curious as to what your answer is to this problem. I have never seen a truly libertarian answer to confronting this crisis once one accepts that it IS a crisis. I am not trying to begin a flame war.

  112. Robert Capozzi

    I thought there was no particular dispute that the earth’s on a warming trend generally. The cause and the outcome and what to do about it, if anything, is a matter of contention, even among those who don’t believe the earth is flat.

  113. George Phillies

    My opinion is the same as the overwhelming mass of scientific analysis. There is essentially no (that’s not the same as ‘zero”) disagreement, because the evidence is like the evidence for evolution, namely totally overwhelming, and no alternative model exists.

    Suppose a neighbor proposes, since zoning laws permit,to build in the neighborhood a factory, a factory whose by-products are entirely meritorious, if you ignore the occasional belch of deadly poison gas. Of course, there are morons whose answer is that if you are injured you will sue for damages, an answer which does you know good if you are dead. That’s why the activity is legitimately banned in advance.

    Then there are the people dumping auto exhaust fumes into the Los Angeles air, 60 years ago.Of course, everyone could sue everyone else for damages, leading to (# of automobilies) x (# of residents and visitors) lawsuits, an outcome that makes sense to people whose legal and moral theories do not include transfer costs. For this reason, California imposed automobile emission standards on California-registered automobiles, because the other answers were worse and did not protect people from being poisoned.

    What I expect will happen is that people will continue to use hydrocarbons until the supply is substantially exhausted, which will happen within the lifetimes of the youngest readers here. That’s *substantially* exhausted; the supply does not get cut off, it just gets smaller and smaller and more and more expensive to reach. At that point we will be to CO2 levels and temperatures last seen in the Eemian, the Greenland icecap will likely melt quite quickly, and we will get to determine how reliable the computer models of Antarctic ice flow are.

    You see, my solution is ‘nothing will be done’. The people who lack American standards of living are going to want them, China and India will become the two largest car-building countries, etc. American standard of living? Accept no substitute. North Europe (not England) views itself as being close to American standard of living, but ask them how big their homes are (8^)).

    There has been a notable trend with time away from models, namely quite consistently the models have underestimated the temperature rise and melt rate. I would not be surprised to see feet of rise during the 2020s and meters of rise by the end of the century. You get about 25 feet from Greenland, and something like 250-300 feet out of Antarctica, not to mention the ocean is expanding as it warms, but most of Antarctica probably takes a long time to go.

  114. Robert Capozzi

    199 gp: There is essentially no (that’s not the same as ‘zero”) disagreement, because the evidence is like the evidence for evolution, namely totally overwhelming, and no alternative model exists.

    me: I guess we should give you a pass by not qualifying between whom there is “zero” disagreement, as this is a very informal comment thread. I’m guessing you mean among something like “climatologists,” for surely you’ve heard that some don’t quite buy the view popularized by Al Gore. Or, perhaps, you don’t consider True Believers to be human or somesuch.

    “Nothing will be done,” seems like a good guess, though, certainly as good as any.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but auto exhaust contains known carcinogens. Is carbon a carcinogen? If not, consider losing that analogy.

    As for evolution, it certainly seems to me to be a reasonable explanation. Your favorite pol, RP, seems to be stepping in it on that one, though:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-20098876.html

    Ya know, I can’t say that it’s impossible that some omniscient dude is calling the shots (OK, Cro-Magnon, now I want you to lose some of that hair), but I’d suggest that RP’s first reaction was right: Such metaphysical questions are out of bounds in politics.

  115. NewFederalist

    So George, are you basically saying we are pretty much fucked over? I can deal with that if that is what you are saying. I tend to agree. Actually, I think the end will come much sooner.

  116. Steven R Linnabary

    I asserted in another blog post that Libertarians draw votes fairly evenly from democrats and republicans, and I got called on it.

    I see such polling every other year or so…

    Does anyone have a link(s) to any legitimate polls showing this?

    PEACE

  117. Rob Banks

    LP Ohio: Libertarian Voters Come from Democratic and Republican Parties Nearly Equally (6/18/10)

    http://www.lpo.org/news/press-releases/233-libertarian-voters-come-from-democratic-and-republican-parties-nearly-equally.html

    Survey USA: North Carolina U.S. Senate race (8% of Liberals, 6% of Moderates, 4% of Conservatives Support Libertarian Beitler, 6/25/10)

    http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/nc-poll-8-of-liberals-6-of-moderates-4-of-conservatives-support-libertarian-beitler

  118. JT

    Phillies: “You see, my solution is ‘nothing will be done’.”

    That’s not a solution. What SHOULD be done, IYO?

  119. George Phillies

    @207 You are invoking an erroneous belief, namely ‘there is a problem, therefore there must be a solution.’

    In approximately 450BC, there was a plague in a misfortunate Greek city. The god Apollo appeared, telling people that he would cure their ills if they would double the volume of his altar, a cube of white marble. They in error doubled its dimensions, so he allegedly made the plague *worse*. The problem they faced, which they viewed ‘extract the cube root of two with compass and protractor’ was like ‘trisect an angle with compass and protractor’ — insoluble. Or so I was told in ninth grade plane geometry.

  120. Be Rational

    @208 So, the lesson you learned in 9th grade was that there is no solution, so you should give up.

    In my 9th grade geometry class, I created a new geometric theorem, proved that it was true and proceeded to use it.

    I learned that when others see no solution, I should work harder to create one.

  121. JT

    Phillies: “You are invoking an erroneous belief, namely ‘there is a problem, therefore there must be a solution.’”

    Your story about the appearance of an ancient Greek god and his plague not withstanding, you’re saying that you think global warming is both a man-made problem and that it portends a catastrophe for human life, but no human action should be taken to address it in any way. People are simply doomed. Nice.

  122. Humongous Fungus

    Eric Dondero Rittberg has recently been spotted on CNN commenting about the Ron Paul newsletters. They asked him whether he is working with any of the campaigns running against Paul for the nomination and he said no. In fact Rittberg has been gathering signatures for Perry and Romney in Indiana and Vermont, and possibly some other places.

  123. Be Rational

    @210 In 209, I was referring to your surrender in 208 in response to 207 on global warming as a problem .

    The square root of 2 is not a problem. It is a number.

  124. George Phillies

    @222 For the benefit of the slow, the problem was to write the square root of two as a fraction, the ratio of two integers.

    This cannot be done.

    Is this a problem? Yes, the ancient Greek city in which this proof was discovered was, as a direct result, attacked by neighboring cities under the rule of the NeoPythagoreans, who claimed that all numbers were fractions. For their heresies, the city in question was leveled to the ground and its inhabitants reduced to slavery.

    Yes, there is a problem there, just one too fine for your blunt wit to identify as a problem.

  125. Be Rational

    @223 The problem for this ancient city was not the square root of 2, it was the lack of adequate defense, diplomatic negotiating skill or an escape route.

    In your case, the problem is that you’ve been befuddled by your own bluster – your silly story has nothing to do with understanding or solving a complex problem such as global warming- it is not a riddle imposed by some god where the solution is the square root of 2. Especially since your story does not represent a math problem, but misrepresentation in order to fool the foolish – not difficult.

    Here’s one for you: If an airplane crashes on the border between Iraq and Iran, where do you bury the survivors?

    FYI George, this too has nothing to do with a solution for global warming.

  126. George Phillies

    When you are outnumbered 6-1 and your opponents are waging a holy war, diplomatic skill and evasion are not options. The existence of the proof was blasphemous, and the people who had acknowledged it needed to be exterminated.

    In the real world.

    Apparently you are too troll-witted to see my point, which is that the existence of a problem does not mean that there is any solution at all. I then gave a concrete example of a problem that cannot be solved that got large numbers of people killed.

  127. Be Rational

    I understood your assertion, George, but you’ll have hard time proving that there is no solution to the global warming problem.

    There are ways to deal with it – even while following libertarian principles.

    In your example, the people needed to look for an alternative solution.

    So do you.

  128. paulie Post author

    you’ll have hard time proving that there is no solution to the global warming problem.

    There are ways to deal with it – even while following libertarian principles.

    I’m planning to address this at some length, hopefully tonight, and since I will be editorializing another IPR writer has agreed to post it is a separate article for me if/when I write it.

    In the meantime, I’d like to know what others here think:

    Assuming (even if you only assume it for the sake of discussion) that anthropogenic climate destabilization is a reality, and that it is a serious problem with dire consequences, what can we do about it without big government? IE, does anyone see libertarian solutions to the problem, assuming it is indeed a problem, and if so, what do you think those solutions are?

  129. George Phillies

    @226 My position is not that there is no solution. There are plenty of options. I just expect that the option that is actually followed will be ‘exhaust the fossil fuel reserves’.

  130. Thomas L. Knapp

    Paulie @227,

    “does anyone see libertarian solutions to the problem, assuming it is indeed a problem, and if so, what do you think those solutions are?”

    A big one would be to stop subsidizing fossil fuels.

    A more controversial one would be to use tax policy to address the externalities of fossil fuel use.

    If people had to pay the true, unsubsidized cost of gasoline at the pump, and possibly an additional fee to cover cleaning up their carbon spew, a powerful market incentive would come into play for vehicles that pollute less and either use a lot less gasoline or use something else entirely.

  131. Michael H. Wilson

    re paulie up above somewhere. The U.S. military is one of the biggest users of fossil fuels on the planet. I may not find it tonight but I think I read they rank number 8. Bring the troops home & deactivate a few carrier groups as well as the 6th and 7th fleet plus a few other ships.

    A group whose name I don’t recall has suggested that urban pollution can be reduced by 75% simply by using jitneys for urban transit. I think that number is off the mark, but 30% is more likely. Give people a working alternative by opening the market to other alternatives and perhaps contracting services out and that might reduce the number of older poorly maintained cars on the road. Low income people often cannot afford to adequately maintain their cars thus they pollute more than others. A small number of cars cause a significant amount of urban pollution.

  132. Brian Holtz

    Knapp nails it @231.

    The best exposition of this idea was commissioned from Prof. Fred Foldvary by Knapp himself in 2008 when he edited Question Earthority. I can’t find QE online right now, but Fred’s article is available here. I still consider it the single best policy essay ever written.

  133. Robert Capozzi

    Assuming AGW theory is correct, and the outcomes predicted are also correct, GP makes a lot of sense here. There probably is nothing that would actually produce a reversal. The coasts get hosed, perhaps fossil fuel supplies are depleted to the point that injurious behavior is curbed.

    For me, one of the great things about L-ism(s) is that we don’t buy into fairy tales. We know that people aggregate demand, make markets, and what happens happens. We observe that what happens are generally beneficial to all when the State manipulates least. Mature Ls also recognize that we can’t “prove” this, since statelessness is an unstable and extremely rare thing to observe and draw reasonable conclusions about. There is, in a sense, an element of “faith” in the L policy stance(s). That’s the more honest, humble view. Liberals and conservatives and socialists are far more prone to dishonestly make claims of Problem X, Solution Y, Outcome Z. (As they are in denial, they are generally sincere in their views, however.)

    As Ls are heavily influenced by Hayek, we know that XYZ is a “fatal conceit.” (I’d suggest that “fatal” is a tad histrionic, but I do like the sentiment.)

    So, in a sense, our strength is a weakness! Voters want simplistic answers. What to do?

    Hard to say…I don’t do “outcomes,” only best guesses about the more or less right thing all things considered. (What’s “indicated.”)

    So, advocating a green tax shift makes a lot of sense from that perspective. It addresses a lot of concerns simultaneously and, heck, it might even work! It’s a win/win/win.

  134. Thomas L. Knapp

    @233,

    Question Earthority was one of several “issues blogs” that the International Society for Individual Liberty commissioned.

    At some point — I don’t remember exactly when at the moment, but it was in the same general timeframe as their acquisition of Laissez Faire Books — they took a look at their entire operation and decided those blogs weren’t worth the continuing investment.

    Can’t say I blame them — the blogs never did really catch on in terms of traffic, etc.

    I was proud of doing some cool things with QE, though, including publishing material by Foldvary, and an article by LNC member Dan Karlan making the case that it was time for libertarians to accept the reality of anthropogenic global warming.

  135. Michael H. Wilson

    The first two links are on the military and fuel usage.

    http://www.dailyenergyreport.com/2011/01/how-much-energy-does-the-u-s-military-consume/

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/08/05/the_ministry_of_oil_defense

    Here is the jitney comment I mentioned. While I think it is certainly questionable it is worth considering. I think a 30% reduction is possible.

    “This would cut auto gasoline consumption by an estimated 80% and commute time by an average of 50% within a decade.”

    http://www.communitysolution.org/transport.html

    Maybe someday Libertarians will quit arguing over whether AGW is real or not and focus on solutions. I won’t hold my breath though.

  136. paulie Post author

    My position is not that there is no solution. There are plenty of options. I just expect that the option that is actually followed will be ‘exhaust the fossil fuel reserves’.

    I got that.

    I was asking people who believe there is one. Sorry if I was unclear.

  137. paulie Post author

    A big one would be to stop subsidizing fossil fuels.

    Agreed.

    A more controversial one would be to use tax policy to address the externalities of fossil fuel use.

    If people had to pay the true, unsubsidized cost of gasoline at the pump, and possibly an additional fee to cover cleaning up their carbon spew, a powerful market incentive would come into play for vehicles that pollute less and either use a lot less gasoline or use something else entirely.

    I think there is a better way than tax policy to do that.

    More on that later (not sure when but I still want to write about it).

  138. paulie Post author

    The U.S. military is one of the biggest users of fossil fuels on the planet. I may not find it tonight but I think I read they rank number 8. Bring the troops home & deactivate a few carrier groups as well as the 6th and 7th fleet plus a few other ships.

    True. Actually, the full extent of military fuel use and pollution is not known; some of it is classified.

    A group whose name I don’t recall has suggested that urban pollution can be reduced by 75% simply by using jitneys for urban transit. I think that number is off the mark, but 30% is more likely. Give people a working alternative by opening the market to other alternatives and perhaps contracting services out and that might reduce the number of older poorly maintained cars on the road. Low income people often cannot afford to adequately maintain their cars thus they pollute more than others. A small number of cars cause a significant amount of urban pollution.

    True as well. And that only scratches the surface of the market-distorting, pollution and fuel overuse causing government policies.

  139. paulie Post author

    Another Libertarian approach to global warming, etc., can be found in Steve Kubby’s 2008 position paper on “Energy and Environment.”

    That too.

  140. Jill Pyeatt

    Well, I’ll grant Dr. Phillies this, re: global warming: throughout history, some conspiracy theories have been proven to be true. We’ll have to wait on this one, I guess, since I think there’s compelling evidence on either side.

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