Nader Is “Very Unlikely” To Run Again In 2012

Chris Hedges at OpEdNews features a long interview with Ralph Nader.  It is a bit heavy on editorializing but features some good quotes from the consumer advocate ranging from budget fights to neoconservatism. One bit is particularly relevant for political junkies.

When I asked Nader, who mounted campaigns for the presidency in 2000, 2004 and 2008, if he would consider running again, he answered that it was “very unlikely.”

“You have millions of people who say run, run, run,” he said. “Then you put yourself out there and find they are voting for Obama. Until they become mature, until they realize that if they generate 5 to 8 million votes behind a progressive third-party candidate for leverage, what is the point? Why should people try four or five times? Let someone else do it.

“The people who go out there with some credibility and record, go into 50 states, sweat it out month after month, beating back ballot access obstacles, fighting the Democrats who are trying to suppress free speech and candidate choices for the voters, and then you still can’t get on the air to discuss civil liberties,” he said. “Never mind that they do not want to upset dear Obama or dear [John] Kerry. They don’t give you air time to discuss the simple issue of the denial of civil liberties and the crushing of third parties.”

Nader is sounding more and more burnt out with running for office. Who can blame him after five successive presidential campaigns? In previous months, he called for another progressive standard bearer to step up to the task of a run, although he had kept the possibility of a bid alive.  Now, Nader sounds increasingly less enthusiastic about such a prospect.

In the short-term, this is good news for the national Green Party. For the last two presidential cycles Green presidential candidates have split between one and one and a half percent of the electorate with Nader, so his exit could provide an opportunity for the Greens to reconsolidate their pulpit as spokesmen for disenchanted  leftists.

But a big problem remains: who would be the spokesman? This is not a new problem; the Green Party has no obvious candidate to excite the base and run a vigorous campaign like Nader did in 2000. The clock continues to tick as the 2012 presidential race begins to heat up.

91 thoughts on “Nader Is “Very Unlikely” To Run Again In 2012

  1. NewFederalist

    Who can blame Ralph Nader for being tired of running and getting pretty much nowhere? I am not a progressive but I can sure see his point. It is a lot of work and to be rejected, in the end, by people you thought were kindred spirits is devastating. While I don’t agree with Nader on much I say good luck to him. He has done enough. Let somebody else pick up the baton and run with it.

  2. NewFederalist

    “He would have made a good President and a great federal justice ……….”

    But a really lousy game show host! :)

  3. Deran

    The US national GP is in no position to run any sort of lively presidential election. I think I’ll probably be voting SPUSA/Peace and Freedom Party.

    We owe thanks to Mr Nader for all his work to open up and make more fair ballot access for all non-major candidates.

  4. Michael Cavlan RN

    Ralph Nader.

    Hero

    This article is a damning indictment of the so called “progressive” community.

    Including David Cobb and the dead National Green Party.

    Oh well. Carry on. Building and organizing an opposition to the pro-war, corporate corrupted two party system. Like we really mean it.

  5. Ronald

    Ever thought about running for something else Milnes? Maybe a local election, build some cred.

  6. Thane Eichenauer

    Milnes,
    The Libertarian Party. Green Party and the Nader Party exist for the purpose of furthering a set of ideals via electing someone who believes in those ideas. If you think your ideas are likely to increase electoral odds of candidates X then find a ambitious candidate and sell him (or her) your idea for a percentage (or a fee). As best I can tell you can’t be fully Libertarian and fully Green/Naderite at the same time. If you think that you can appeal to political party W, X, Y or Z without starting with your commitment to an identifiable set of ideals first you will be cast into the same pot many people think Wayne Allyn Root has crawled out of.

  7. Concerned Chuck and Hetro Harry

    Ralph Nader is a worshiper of Aqua Buddha, you know. Why else wouldn’t he get himself a decent wife? Hopefully he’ll endorse Wayne Allyn Root in 2012. That will be perfect for ruining the libertarian-progressive-homosexual-mormon-muslim-nazi-Israeli-communist-Aqua Buddaist movement of Ron, Rand, and Tom Knapp!

  8. Thane Eichenauer

    Nader Party, Nader movement, people who like Ralph Nader or vote for Ralph Nader, they are all of a group.

  9. Robert Milnes

    Agreed, that is what I thought you meant. It is not what you said, though.
    & I see your point about me. I’m counting on flexibility which in the case of the BTP radicals, may not be so much.

  10. NewFederalist

    “I don’t get it. No mention of me. I am the obvious successor to Nader.”

    Where else do you post, Bob? How would anyone know?

  11. Robert Milnes

    NF, how did Ken Bank-Daily Kos-hear about me? I do not know. I know I did not seek him out.
    My 2 websites are up. I have a small emailing list. I lost my old list. In 2008 the LP issued a mailing list to candidates. Unlike the LP, the GP has a Presidential campaign assistance committee.
    I’m open to suggestions. As it stands it is politics as usual & we know where that goes.
    Loserland.

  12. NewFederalist

    Perhaps Michael Cavlan would have a suggestion. He seems plugged in to that community.

  13. Truth as I See It !

    Mr. Milnes thinks he should “inherit” Mr. Nader’s support! WHY ?

    What exactly has Mr. Milnes done to warrant support from Mr. Nader’s supporters ?

    When and Where has Mr. Milnes ever traveled to seek in person any of Mr. Nader’s supporters ?

    Mr. Milnes spends a great amount of time on this site, which is a great site however, which has only a couple of dozen semi-regular posters and maybe a couple of hundred different readers. Mr. Nader has received a half million to well over a couple of million votes in his Presidential campaigns. Mr. Milnes’ campaign has no money, no supporters, no means of vehicular travel and as long as his main campaign efforts remain on this site it will remain that way.

    You have all read about the definition of true insanity is “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”. Mr. Milnes continues to attempt a Presidential run on the Independent Political Report. A place of interesting reading at times, but is in no way a mechanism to run a credible campaign for dog catcher, much less for President. Delusion is a sad state, a sadder state is watching delusion in action on a daily basis when it’s not your paying job to do so. Mr. Milnes is section eight and you who encourage him are doing the man no favors.

  14. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    I, the famed and controversial Rev. Alberto Medvedev believes that Robert Milnes is the only viable successor to follow in Nader’s footsteps.

    What Nader began, Milnes will finish!

    Press release to follow after my press conference, held at the lobby of the Church of Xenu, 230 Cookman Avenue, Asbury Park, NJ tomorrow at 3:00pm EST. I don’t know which TV stations will cover it yet, but you should all definitely tune in. I am going to call NEWS 12 NJ and FOX 5.

    Who knows, I just might announce that I want to be his running-mate! ;-)

  15. Robert Milnes

    @22, where are Nader supporters to go? What are they to do?
    I at least offer an alternative.
    Nader called for someone to come forward.
    well, what more do I have to do?

  16. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    The media was not interested in my press conference.

    Robert, you need to DO SOMETHING. Go to outdoor events, attend party meetings, write the newspaper. Posting on IPR is not the equivalent of running a presidential campaign.

  17. Mobert Rilnes

    Dear Lib-tard moderators of the IPR,

    If you ever want to sell this site you’ve got to block IPs of the following users:

    *Robert Milnes
    *Rev. Alberto Mdvedev/Catholic Trotskyite/etc., etc., etc..
    *Michael Cavlan RN, OBE
    *The Fantasy Football Parliament Thing
    *Mobert Rilnes

    If you won’t listen to common sense, maybe you will think of your future wealth.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Madame Secretary Mobert Rilnes

  18. Robert Milnes

    Come on, how much is IPR worth? Or could be worth if you purge rightists & rightist coddlers & Root & xaulie?
    $600? $6000?
    IPR fools contribute this much to Ron Paul, fascisto-constitutionalist, like it is nothing.
    IPR is clearly not about wealth.

  19. Robert Milnes

    Rev @26, I tried to go to the NH conference. But George blocked me with his fat head.
    Not much on the lp.org events.
    What can I do? Where can I go?
    Nobody seems to care about anything except Casey Anthony, A Mom’s Mother.
    Like I said, I’m open to suggestions.

  20. Catholic Trotskyist

    I am not Alberto Medvedev. I am highly displeased with Michael Kavlan, but don’t think he should be blocked. Milnes and US Parliament should certainly not be blocked.

    As to this post, I am glad that the criminal fascist/stalinist Ralph Nader is finally seeing the error of his ways. Barack H. Obama, our Lord and Revolutionary general, appears to be delayed in taking up his mantle of Catholic Trotskyism; however it will happen in his second term.

    Nader, and Hedges (who will probably run for President himself) need to realize that the lesser of two evils is still a lesser evil; therefore he is a comparative good.

    I am planning to co-endorse Barack Obama, and whoever the Constitution Party candidate is if he is a non-interventionist and doesn’t focus too much on immigration and the economy.

    God bless the state, God bless the church, and God bless the US Parliament, amen.

  21. NewFederalist

    Why would you say that, Bob? Root really doesn’t get any mainstream media. Ron Paul does because he is in Congress.

  22. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    Robert;

    When Ralph Nader started his camapaign every American knew who he was. He had stellar name recognition. Nobody outside IPR knows who you are. Try writing an article and sending it to Antiwar.com or WND. Then go to a street fair. You don’t need to be an “official” guest or anything, but wherever there are people tell them you are running for president. Also, plaster your town with flyers that say: “ROBERT MILNES IS RUNNING IN 2012!” People will be like “who the hell is this and why is he running!?” They will GOOGLE you. Thus, the momentum builds!

    Also, I am not Catholic Trotskystist. I am the Rev. Alberto Medvedev, formerly a regional organizer for the US Labor Party. Later, I discovered the truth about Lord Xenu, and thus began preaching this truth out of my small apartment in Asbury Park. Today, I head the Church of Xenu [United].

  23. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    Clearly the only way to prove this is to take a photograph of me, the Rev. Alberto Medvedev, alongside Catholic Trotskyist.

    I don’t see why people assume that I am the same person as that troll. He clearly exists to simply cause a ruckus. I, on the other hand, have been hard at work since my days with the US Labor Party.

    I don’t mean to sound conceited, however, I don’t think there is a person active in third parties who hasn’t heard of me [Reverend Alberto Medvedev] at one time or another. Catholic Trotskyist doesn’t even use his real name!

    Also, Robert, why dont you start a FACEBOOK page for your campaign, or a YouTube account? Also, have you officially filed to run in any state’s primaries? Also, contact the Green Party in your state and say: “Green Party presidential campaign in 2012? Hell, I am your candidate!”
    Maybe appear at your local Green Party meeting and discuss your ambitions?

    Or perhaps you should start local. Isn’t there a State Legislative election in NJ this year? Yes, there is!

    ??????
    -Rev. Medvedev

  24. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    @ New Federalist,

    How do we know YOU aren’t Catholic Trotskyist?

    Kooloo-Limpah!
    -Rev. Medvedev

  25. Peace and Prosperity Partners

    @25 – Robert Milnes typed // Jul 6, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    @22, where are Nader supporters to go? What are they to do?
    I at least offer an alternative.
    Nader called for someone to come forward.
    well, what more do I have to do?

    P&PP – As we have communicated before, you can email me your snailmail address, sign the contract when you receive it and return it in the SASE, (then try to live up to the contract). Name your Treasurer and file with the FEC. Then we will begin your 2012 bid in earnest. You can SHOCK the world if you will but put forth the effort and allow us to help you.

    Most Sincerely,
    Peace & Prosperity Partners^

    2011 – 2011 – 2011 – 2011 – 2011 – 2011 – 2011

    ^Peace & Prosperity Partners; specializing in consulting, marketing, communications, fundraising, strategic planning, political news analysis, public policy, community and cultural affairs, public opinion and polling analysis.

    email: peaceandprosperitypartners@yahoo.com

    *Offer of An Iron Clad guarantee: If the goal we agree to is not met or exceeded, 51% of the fee will be refunded.

    *Candidate must fulfill 90% of the agreement to validate iron clad guarantee.

    Fees? The fee is only a small % of all funds raised. One of the lowest fees in America. You pay P&PP $77.78 for each ($1,000.00) thousand raised, the campaign keeps $ 922.22. A no lose proposal. None raised you owe zero. We even send a SASE.

    Not limited to, but enjoy serving America’s third parties and independent candidates.

    Need help? Try Us.

    2012 – 2012 – 2012 – 2012 – 2012 – 2012 – 2012

  26. NewFederalist

    #36… if you are so famous within third party circles why do you not show up in any search engine except for your presence at IPR?

  27. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    @ 39, Because the media is biased against third parties, and my name has become synonymous with the third party movement! DUUUUH!

  28. Concerned Chuck and Hetro Harry

    I believe Robert Milnes, NewFederalist, Rev. Alberto Medvedev, Catholic Troskyist, Don Lake and half the other commentors on this website are all one and the same. They are all Paulie who uses this website to act out his multiple personalities rooted in his deep anxiety about not being Tom Knapp. I can see why Paulie would want to be Tom Knapp, they are both devil-worship islamist moron drug pushers (“libertarian” as like to call it). But Tom is just such a better “libertarian” than Paulie so hint his constant acting out on this site.

  29. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    Hello Heterosexual Harry! I assure you that I am the REAL Rev. Alberto Medvedev, not some random person pretending to be me. I understand it may seem somewhat fantastic that a celebrity would post on this website, but like Wayne Allyn Root (the leader/founder of the Libertarian Party), I have decided to post on here myself!

    If you would like to hear stories of my days in the US Labor Party, I would be happy to share! Keep in mind, the US Labor Party activists were a top-notch bunch of folks!

    ypoop yzzans!
    -Rev. Alberto

  30. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    July 5th, 2011

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

    CONTACT:
    Rev Alberto Medvedev
    Church of Xenu [United]
    (973) 304-0808
    ChurchofXenu@hotmail.com

    Rev Alberto Medvedev Demands the Return of the Natural Law Party!

    (Asbury Park, NJ, 07/05/11) The Rev Alberto Medvedev officially called upon the American people to reform the defunct Natural Law Party!

    “I am sure that we can win this time,” said Rev Alberto Medvedev. “The Natural Law Party’s members were a top-notch bunch of folks!”

    Medvedev believes that he is the natural successor to John Hagelin, the party’s presidential candidate during the 1992, 1996, and 2000 presidential elections. Medvedev, who is also a spiritual guru, believes that his message will resonate deeply with the American people.

    “I have no desire to be president,” Reverend Medvedev told an almost entirely empty press conference in the basement of his church in Asbury Park. “But I do desire to make America fabulous again–that will require a powerful third party. We need to get this ball rolling. Organizers in all fifty states are necessary, but together, we can accomplish the impossible.”

    During the conference Medvedev also reiterated that he hates disco music, which he dismissed as being “trashy dancy!”

    During the 1970s Medvedev was among the most prominent members of the US Labor Party. He hopes to use his fame and prestige as a launching point for the Natural Law Party.

    “We can do it,” he told single reporter who attended the press conference. “We are a top-notch bunch of folks!”

  31. Concerned Chuck and Hetro Harry

    What American Labor Party would that be Reverend? Their have been several. If you are speaking of the US Labor Party of Lyndon LaRouche then I very much so would like to hear what you have to say about your days in the party. I admire LaRouche greatly, he’s like Jimmy McMillan, Pat Buchanan, and Groucho Marx all rolled into one. I tried to get one my daughters to marry Lyndon and Helga’s son for quite a while but instead he decided to marry a Mormon son-of-a-bitch and doesn’t respond to any of my phone calls. Well she still is only 9, maybe she’ll grow up and see how cruel is being. Anyway, I’m rambling. And if you are referring to another Labor Party, than you are probably a communist so I’d have to tell you you’re going to hell if that’s the case. Good day!

  32. Pingback: Nader Is “Very Unlikely” To Run Again In 2012 | ThirdPartyPolitics.us

  33. Rev. Alberto Medvedev

    Yes, it was LaRouche’s party. The one most valuable thing I learned during my time there was that time can never mend, the careless whisper of a good friend.

  34. Kleptocracy and You

    “I Get It! That’s Why I Vote Libertarian” – http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=356

    * \/ * \/ *

    Mr. Nader – “The people who go out there with some credibility and record, go into 50 states, sweat it out month after month, beating back ballot access obstacles, fighting the Democrats who are trying to suppress free speech and candidate choices for the voters, and then you still can’t get on the air to discuss civil liberties,” he said. “Never mind that they do not want to upset dear Obama or dear [John] Kerry. They don’t give you air time to discuss the simple issue of the denial of civil liberties and the crushing of third parties.”

    Mr. Nader finally gets it ! Even with creds the MSM will ignore or destroy you. The DNC will fight and block you. You have to be on the “company” payroll or the overpaid media lackeys ignore you. If someway that fails they then discredit and destroy you ! Must make an end run around them. Mr. Nader didn’t have the cash to do it !

    Who controls the mainstream media: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxa19v3eNvc&feature=related

    HISTORY OF THE CFR & THE MODERN CORPORATE MEDIA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWZTh3JCvX8
    4:48v

    ~ \ / * \ / ~

    Who’s the greatest polluter of all? The oil companies? The chemical companies? The nuclear power plants? If you guessed “none of the above,” you’d be correct. Our government, at the federal, state, and local levels, is the single greatest polluter in the land. In addition, our government doesn’t even clean up its own garbage! In 1988, for example, the EPA demanded that the Departments of Energy and Defense clean up 17 of their weapons plants which were leaking radioactive and toxic chemicals — enough contamination to cost $100 billion in clean-up costs over 50 years! The EPA was simply ignored. No bureaucrats went to jail or were sued for damages. Government departments have sovereign immunity. – http://www.lp.org/

    The environment would benefit immensely from the elimination of sovereign immunity coupled with the privatization of “land and beast.” The third and final step in the libertarian program to save the environment is the use of restitution both as a deterrent and a restorative. – http://www.lp.org/

    ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `

    Libertarianism is the philosophy which says that you can run your life better than the government can, and you have the right to be left alone in order to do it. – Anonymous

  35. Don Lake, FYI, not necessarily a unilateral endorsement

    One Nader legacy:

    Dad bought one ford product after another, no matter how the crummy performance.

    My 1975 Honda 600 [Godzilla's Roller Skate] ran like a top. AND I could shift into N and ride the fumes of other auto mobiles ………….

    Mean while Ford and GMC sub compacts were konking out or blowing up ——– or both!

    Trouble for Detroit? Gen Y’s Favorite Cars Are Foreign

    By Jerry Edgerton | CBS MoneyWatch – 2 hours ago

    A new study of Gen Y drivers’ preferences looks like more bad news for the Detroit automakers.

    Auto pricing site TrueCar.com tracked both the brands and individual models bought in 2009 and 2010 by Generation Y shoppers (ages 18 to 27).

    The results should strike fear into the hearts of U.S. auto executives:

    Not a single brand from a domestic automaker made the Top 10 list.

  36. Robert Milnes

    Unsafe at any Speed.
    Automobiles as we have known them are primitive, barbaric, inefficient, & VERY dangerous.
    Aren’t you all sick & tired of human & animal road kill. & filthy oil?
    When I talk about VTOL hydrogen fuel vehicles, I’m not kidding.
    Did you see True Lies-Arnold Schwarzenegger? The scene with the Harrier jet was cool. But not just for the military. Why not for personal vehicles? Why not for commercial vehicles? With auto pilot.
    It could ride the streets with wings retracted. But better to fly & use the air as infrastructure. Decrease wear & tear on roads & bridges or eliminate them altogether.
    I’m sick of automobiles. & human road kill & oil & Oily Bomber & The Reactionaries.
    Aren’t you?
    I wish Teddy Roosevelt and The Progressives had won in 1912.
    Don’t you?
    Well, 100 years later we can try again.

  37. NewFederalist

    I believe the LP of PA is going to have a convention along with DE and NJ (or maybe it was MD) in the near future. Perhaps you can contact them for info. It would even be close by. I think it was being planned for the Philly area but not in Philly. I get their emails but I don’t pay much attention to them.

  38. Robert Milnes

    NF, NJ had a state convention in March. PA April. Evidently no presidential debates.
    This is the combined convention I attended in 2008. So it will probably be in early 2012.
    George moneybags held the first 2012 presidential debates at a special conference in NH in June.. He said there might be another such conference.

  39. Robert Milnes

    @58, oh, is that right?
    George sponsors conference. Makes himself moderator.
    George doesn’t like my politics.
    I get barred from speaking by a new requirement-5 years continued party membership/activism/that I cannot meet.
    Coincidence?

  40. JT

    Wow, those are truly terrible ideas in post 48, Milnes. No libertarian would run with someone who proposes them.

  41. Thane Eichenauer

    @59
    Sniping at George Phillies is nearly certain to engender ennui (or worse) for you among LP supporters. Fair is what the guy who pays the bill (in this case George Phillies) says it is. I can’t imagine a solution to offer you. If you aren’t able to meet his criteria and you can’t fund your own forum and you can’t inspire some supporter to fund a forum with more inclusive rules and you snipe at Phillies instead of moving on what else is there for any movement or party activist to do?
    I don’t think that there is some untapped pool of people who are going to come across your “I found some progressive in my libertarian candy bar or I found some libertarian in my progressive candy bar” and trust the candy bar enough to eat the whole thing.
    Of course there is a whole world (or even whole neighbourhood) to expose your ideas two. There are many political meetings out there any given month that may allow you to present you and your ideas. You might even propose a meeting and I imagine George “Moneybags” Phillies couldn’t do thing one to prevent that from happening. Where the effort and energy is present you hardly need money.

  42. Milnes Avoids Reality

    Milnes: Solar panels on every roof. Stop coffins on wheels-unsafe at any speed automobiles. Mass manufacture VTOL hydrogen fuel vehicles. Larger versions for REALLY mobile -flying-homes.

    Milnes focuses on these “head in the clouds” ideas to avoid reality — and his personal problems.

    Any man with Milnes’s personal problems should be focused on solving those personal problems, and not worry about “VTOL hydrogen fuel vehicles. Larger versions for REALLY mobile -flying-homes.”

  43. Robert Milnes

    @60, sorry to hear those are terrible ideas, JT, because I have a whole bunch more just like them.
    These are fairly simple ones. Oil has got to go. The sooner the better.
    Even Dubya mentioned hydrogen.
    I read in Wikipedia I think that Susan H. has solar enough to be off the grid.
    That’s not good enough. We need the grid-for now. So people can sell their surplus. And energy can be abundant & free.
    Eventually we would not need a grid.
    I also have an idea for flood water redistribution. Retrofitting storm drains. Interconnecting water lines etc.
    Everyone should have a water storage tank.
    What is so bad about making Afghanistan a colony-state? A formula for economic parity would bring them overnight into the 21st century.
    Do you realize the vast potential under all those rocks? That now have American blood on them?
    I didn’t get us into this mess but this is how I would get us out. -Make the best of the situation that we have sunk hundreds of billions into.
    Otherwise we walk away & the Taliban come back. All that sacrifice for NOTHING!
    Who are you going to vote for JT? Root?
    LOL!

  44. JT

    Milnes: “@60, sorry to hear those are terrible ideas, JT, because I have a whole bunch more just like them.”

    I’m sure you do. But why you believe any libertarian would want to be associated with them, I have no idea. No libertarian would support government involvement in such things.

    You wanted Mary Ruwart as your running mate (at least at one point). You think she’d ever run on a ticket with someone who wants to ban oil? Redistribute water? Plan the economy in Afghanistan? And more ideas like them???

    I don’t know who I’ll vote for yet. I’m waiting to see who else announces.

  45. Thane Eichenauer

    RM,
    I’ll tell you who I support. A person that advocates freedom.

    “Oil has to go.” I can’t imagine that idea gaining 1 dollar or one hour of support from Libertarians.
    If “Oil has to go.” is something you believe in then sell that idea to people who love that idea – there must be a Sierra Club chapter near you. It is no wonder George Phillies doesn’t like your politics, neither do I. Selling tofu to a person who hungers for steak isn’t a productive endeavour.

    Of course if you really believe that “Oil has got to go” and you are willing to accomplish that end by becoming a car salesman that sells Toyota Priuses or Nissan Leafs then you have my full support – go get ‘em!

  46. Thane Eichenauer

    @64
    Blaming society eh? As if human free will counts for nothing. If you are presuming that you can do nothing to change or improve the world then I am telling you that you are wrong. You have plenty of choices and options. You must however decide to take advantage of your own assets which at a bare minimum is a human body and a functioning Internet connected computer and utilise them in a productive fashion.
    Look to what you CAN accomplish and the disappointment of not having broken ground on a hydrogen fuelled heavy truck manufacturing plant will probably be a bit easier to cope with.

  47. Robert Milnes

    Darryl, I’m not talking about the old type of colonization. I’m talking about 50/50 parity.
    1/2 of Afghan land stays as is. 1/2 becomes a U.S. State. 25 million Afghans/25 million American colonists. Plus agreed formula for economic parity.
    Same sort of arrangement could be worked out for Israel/Palestine.

  48. Robert Milnes

    @66, Thane, you obviously do not know what revolution is all about.
    A revolutionary doesn’t say, please mr. reactionary rich man/company, can I sell some of your gas/poison fuel filthy oil unsafe at any speed junkmobiles?
    The revolutionary says we are running things now & you better get that filth out of our face.
    If libs are stuck in oil & will not be parted with their unsafe at any speed coffins on wheels, then maybe I am barking up the wrong tree.

  49. NewFederalist

    “…then maybe I am barking up the wrong tree.”

    I would guess that is a fair statement, Bob. I don’t see how your views would be acceptable to most libertarians that I know. Progressives even revolutionaries perhaps, but not libertarians.

  50. Robert Milnes

    It isa libertarian position because it would end the war. Quickly, nonviolently.
    Without communism.
    see: Vietnam War.
    also, Afghan/Soviet war.
    Without Taliban inclusion/resurgence.
    see:recent administration statements.

  51. Darryl W. Perry

    “It isa libertarian position because it would end the war. Quickly, nonviolently.”
    Do you seriously believe that Afghans will allow themselves to become a colony without a fight?

  52. Concerned Chuck and Hetro Harry

    The US government should be sending Christian missionaries to Afghanistan by the thousands. That is how this war will be won, once they all accept Christ and reject the wicked pagan way of Muhammadianism then there will be peace. Jesus Christ is the only peace in this world! All non-Christians are bound to be terrorists because they are followers of Satan and satanism only leads to destruction! Common sense people!

  53. Kleptocracy and You

    @68 DWP, man you are sharing from the “Belly of the BEAST” “Foreign Affairs is the propaganda rag for the ENEMY ! Read at your own risk, or to know what the “plans” are for the future !!

    “We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.” – David Rockefeller

    “I am delighted to be here in these new [Council on Foreign Relations] headquarters. I have been often to, I guess, the mother ship in New York City, but it’s good to have an outpost of the Council right here down the street from the State Department. We get a lot of advice from the Council, so this will mean I won’t have as far to go to be told what we should be doing and how we should think about the future.” – Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State, 7/15/2009

    WeAreChange Confronts Rockefeller on New World Order Crimes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igjJR-5V6EY&feature=related

    ***

    Libertarianism is the philosophy which says that you can run your life better than the government can, and you have the right to be left alone in order to do it. – Anonymous

    * ^ *

    It IS time to get serious about telling the TRUTH! This hatched plan is scary stuff if you pay close attention to what they say. Yes, to what THEY say! To paraphrase Reagan: Some of these (elitist environmental) KOOKS would have you and YOUR family die shivering in the dark !

    “Hundreds of billion dollars have been wasted with the attempt of imposing a Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) theory that is not supported by physical world evidences…AGW has been forcefully imposed by means of a barrage of scare stories and indoctrination that begins in the elementary school textbooks.” — Brazilian Geologist Geraldo Luís Lino, who authored the 2009 book “The Global Warming Fraud: How a Natural Phenomenon Was Converted into a False World Emergency.”

    “Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it.” – Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute

    “Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.” – Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

    “It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.” – Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace

    “We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.” – Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

    “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” – Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment

    “The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.” – emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

    “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” – Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

    Milnes and Strong, Peas of the same “chilling COLD” pod …

    ~ \ / * \ / ~

    Who’s the greatest polluter of all? The oil companies? The chemical companies? The nuclear power plants? If you guessed “none of the above,” you’d be correct. Our government, at the federal, state, and local levels, is the single greatest polluter in the land. In addition, our government doesn’t even clean up its own garbage! In 1988, for example, the EPA demanded that the Departments of Energy and Defense clean up 17 of their weapons plants which were leaking radioactive and toxic chemicals — enough contamination to cost $100 billion in clean-up costs over 50 years! The EPA was simply ignored. No bureaucrats went to jail or were sued for damages. Government departments have sovereign immunity. – http://www.lp.org/

    The environment would benefit immensely from the elimination of sovereign immunity coupled with the privatization of “land and beast.” The third and final step in the libertarian program to save the environment is the use of restitution both as a deterrent and a restorative. – http://www.lp.org/

    ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `

    JIM TUCKER’S BILDERBERG DIARY: http://shop.americanfreepress.net/store/c/6-Conspiracy.html

  54. NewFederalist

    @73, so, libertarians are not revolutionaries?

    None that I know of if the revolution is likely to make government larger still. The original American revolutionaries were against an intrusive government but your vision of ending the oil industry and auto industry seems like more not less government to me.

  55. JT

    Milnes: “If libs are stuck in oil & will not be parted with their unsafe at any speed coffins on wheels, then maybe I am barking up the wrong tree.”

    Libertarians are “stuck in” getting government out of areas, not involving it in other things. Businesses should be able to produce and sell their products on an open market, and individuals should be able to choose for themselves what they wish to buy or not buy. This is news to you?

    Darryl: “Do you seriously believe that Afghans will allow themselves to become a colony without a fight?”

    Exactly. The notion that Afghans are interested in “50/50 parity” with the U.S. government is insane. It’s their country! That’s no recipe for peace.

  56. Robert Milnes

    Libs do not seem to understand the reality of their situation.
    First, they are never going to win
    any significant elections.
    Not unless they work with another bloc & there are only 2-progressives & constitutionalists.
    i.e. revolution v counterrevolution.
    Second, they are never going to get Anarchy Now! These things take time. That’s what revolution means. Even if you win some significant elections.

  57. JT

    Milnes: “Not unless they work with another bloc & there are only 2-progressives & constitutionalists.”

    I’m not opposed to working with progressives. There are important issues libertarians and progressives can collaborate on. However, when a progressive touts ideas like yours, which in no way, shape, or form are libertarian (as I explained above), that’s a non-starter for any joint campaign.

    Milnes: “Second, they are never going to get Anarchy Now! These things take time.”

    Who’s talking about that? We’re talking about more government controls vs. less.

    Milnes: “That’s what revolution means.”

    Can you say anything that shows you know what you’re talking about? That’s not what “revolution” means at all. According to dictionary.com, “revolution” means:
    1.
    an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed.
    2.
    Sociology . a radical and pervasive change in society and the social structure, especially one made suddenly and often accompanied by violence. Compare social evolution.
    3.
    a sudden, complete or marked change in something: the present revolution in church architecture.

  58. NewFederalist

    “I’m not opposed to working with progressives. There are important issues libertarians and progressives can collaborate on. However, when a progressive touts ideas like yours, which in no way, shape, or form are libertarian (as I explained above), that’s a non-starter for any joint campaign.”

    JT- Do you see better opportunities to work with progressives than constitutionalists?

  59. JT

    NF: “JT- Do you see better opportunities to work with progressives than constitutionalists?”

    I don’t know if I’d say “better.” I think there are good opportunities to work with conservative constitutionalists also. I only mentioned progressives because that’s what Milnes is.

  60. Concerned Chuck and Hetro Harry

    It’s funny how Paulie in all his fake profiles- JT, NewFerderalist, ect- and argue with his other fake profile -Robert Milnes- rather than actually have a debate on a real issue!

    Who cares about progressives and libertarians, they’re like what 2% of the Democratist and Republicanist Parties? There’s still no a voting block there. You people are so retarded, you’re in the education phase and- not, by any means- ready to elect someone. Shape up or I’m sure your overlord Krishna, Buddha, Muhammad, or whatever form you worship Satan in will not be pleased with your ineffective spreading of his message.

  61. paulie

    It’s funny how Paulie in all his fake profiles- JT, NewFerderalist, ect- and argue with his other fake profile -Robert Milnes- rather than actually have a debate on a real issue!

    None of those are me.

    Satire or otherwise, please do not refer to me by name on IPR unless there’s a good reason for it. I only read comments that name me by name right now, and I don’t have time to read extraneous stuff like this.

  62. JT

    You think Paulie wants to argue with himself?

    And I don’t argue much with Milnes. I usually just give a one-liner to his most stupid comments.

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