Wayne Root: ‘Explaining The Harry Reid Victory and Tea Party Loss in Nevada’

Email from Wayne Root to contact.ipr@gmail.com:

By Wayne Allyn Root of www.ROOTforAmerica.com

Harry Reid won because:

A) Casino bosses DESPERATELY need him in his position of power (U.S. Senate Majority Leader)…so much so that even many Republican casino CEO’s in Las Vegas conspired to get him a victory….and appeared in TV ads for him…and bussed their 100,000 union employees to polls…reportedly with “suggested vote guides” in their hands.

B) Teachers unions reportedly offered $25 Starbucks gift cards to every teacher in the state…and literally gave every teacher Friday, Monday & Tuesday off for once a year “teachers conferences” so every teacher could vote Democrat to make sure they all keep their jobs…and obscene pensions…and also get future obscene raises in a depression.

C) Hispanic workers by the thousands were bussed to polls by Democrats and unions (but I repeat myself) to vote for Reid. How do I know? Because Reid was down by 4 in every poll…but won by 5. That’s a 9 point swing. Nevada Republican Congressional candidate Dr. Joe Heck was up by 10 points in polls. He won by less than 1% (in upset over Democratic Congresswoman Dina Titus)- a swing of 9 points too (even though the Republican hung on). But interestingly the Hispanic GOP candidate for Governor Brian Sandoval won by double digits over Harry Reid’s own son. So it’s pretty obvious what happened. Hispanics voted a straight Democrat ticket- except for the Hispanic Republican candidate for Governor. Hispanics were obviously the key to the election.

Now to a little truthful criticism and self-analysis of a Tea Party defeat:

Republicans blew it.

Angle did not run a good campaign.

She avoided the press- and it’s time for conservatives to COURT the media, not demonize it, or run from it. There is no choice- learn to live with the media, because you can’t live without it.

The Nevada GOP is non-existent, dis-organized, rudderless, leader-less, and in decline. It provides no help to GOP candidates.

Angle did not have a strong “get out the vote” organization on the ground.

The Angle Team (and the Nevada GOP) did not understand the importance of getting out the vote- it’s more important than any visible aspect of a campaign.

They did not understand how to attract Hispanic votes. And they had better learn fast if they want to win any future elections. Hispanics are good people, family is their foundation, there are many Hispanic small business owners, and Hispanics should be part of the conservative movement. Conservatives and Tea Parties must learn how to communicate with and win over Hispanic voters or risk becoming obsolete.

Wayne Allyn Root, is the author of the new paperback, “The Conscience of a Libertarian: Empowering the Citizen Revolution with God, Guns, Gold, and Tax Cuts.” He is a Las Vegas oddsmaker turned Vice Presidential nominee. Root is available to the media to provide pre and post election analysis, discussion and debate. His website is: ROOTforAmerica.com.

82 thoughts on “Wayne Root: ‘Explaining The Harry Reid Victory and Tea Party Loss in Nevada’

  1. Cody Quirk

    The only alternative to the Republicans however, is the Independent American Party, which elected 3 people to local offices and re-elected their office-holder in Eureka.

  2. paulie Post author

    They did not understand how to attract Hispanic votes. And they had better learn fast if they want to win any future elections.

    Yep, that’s the downside of all the migrant-bashing that is all the rage among conservative anglos rights now.

    Hispanics are good people, family is their foundation, there are many Hispanic small business owners,

    Excellent point.

    and Hispanics should be part of the conservative movement.

    No, they should be part of the libertarian movement. We’re not for closed borders or racial profiling, for one thing.

    Sure, there are some Latinos who have a “pull up the ladder” mentality and oppose allowing more Latinos to come in, but most are pro-increased migration freedom and consider it to be an important issue.

  3. paulie Post author

    Mr. Root makes very good points about the casino bosses, teachers unions, get out the vote efforts, etc.

    We need more Libertarians and alt party supporters who understand such machinations, and also learn to anticipate, counter and mimic them as well.

  4. paulie Post author

    Angle did not run a good campaign.

    She avoided the press- and it’s time for conservatives to COURT the media, not demonize it, or run from it. There is no choice- learn to live with the media, because you can’t live without it.

    Right again. Green Cynthia McKinney also had a strategy of avoiding the corporate media, and I don’t think that was wise either.

    However frustrating media bias is, running away is definitely not the answer.

  5. Don Wills

    I was in the audience when Sharron Angle spoke at FreedomFest in LV last July. She was a terrible speaker – both style and content wise. I was surprised she came as close to winning as she did. Dingy Harry is a survivor – always has been – so it’s no surprise to me that he won.

  6. Gene Berkman

    Reid won re-election at least partly because Sharon Angle was such a bad candidate. Angle won the primary by defeating an establishment Republican who had been very hostile to Ron Paul supporters at the 2008 Republican state convention.

    Reid also won because of some of Sharon Angle’s better positions. Angle called for less government and opposed subsidies for business. The Republican casino owners who backed Harry Reid want government money to pay for development of Nevada – they are “mixed economy parasites” and put their desire for subsidies ahead of any other principle.

  7. JT

    Wayne: “She avoided the press- and it’s time for conservatives to COURT the media, not demonize it, or run from it.”

    As a libertarian, I want most conservatives to run away from the media. If he’s a libertarian, Wayne Root should want that too.

  8. Steven wilson

    Wayne is armchair GOP. Strategy is best served when it is applied. I am glad Root did so much for the LP candidates and their strategy. Maybe he will explain more on his next FOX report showcase.

  9. Jim Stocker

    Does Wayne Root know all this to be true? Of course not. Root’s as POS scumbag. Stick to fleecing gamblers out of their money on your crappy picks and charging up their credit card without permission. That seems to be what you do best Mr, Root and I use that term very loosely.

  10. tiradefaction

    “Hispanics should be part of the conservative movement. ”

    Why should I be part of the conservative movement? I don’t agree with them on much of anything…

  11. George Phillies

    Sharron Angle lost because she was a right-wing nut. She hid from the press because she or her advisors realized that when she opened her mouth she recruited Reid voters.

    In a country where Science, Technology, and Invention are the glory of the Republic, she was a global warming denier. She was convinced in the face of overwhelming negative geological evidence that drilling in the Arctic or gulf of Mexico could solve our oil imports…which would require finding more than one Saudi Arabia hiding there.

    On social liberties she opposed abortion even in the case of rape or incest, a position so revolting that even most Republicans reject it. She was opposed to marijuana legalization. She opposed gay marriage and wanted to enshrine religious persecution in the constitution via the marriage amendment.

    She appears to have wanted to take away your right to vote for your Senators, by repealing the 17th amendment.

    In short, she was a prime example of why Republican Conservatives — not to be confused with the real conservatives on this list — are not so much wrong as they are crazy, and the only surprise is how many Republican party loyalists were willing to vote for her.

    By the way Sharron, it’s not flat, either.

  12. Mark F.

    George Phillies is not exactly correct that repealing the 17th amendment would take away anyone’s right to vote for his Senator. Repeal of the amendment would simply allow each state to decide how its Senators would be elected. In fact, it’s unlikely that any at all would abandon direct election of Senators, although they could in theory.

    But I do agree that Angle was a right-wing crackpot in general.

  13. Darryl W. Perry

    Harry Reid won because a sufficient number of people decided to vote for him. Every voter has their own reasons for doing so, any attempt to lump all voters together with a single reason is disingenuous at best.

  14. NewFederalist

    “Harry Reid won because an adequate fraction of Nevadans want a Senator who will not be a national embarrassment.”

    Just how could they avoid that exactly?

  15. I cannot believe you people

    To Phillip and Paulie, I guess you only know what you hear from the Media and believe what you want and run with that.
    Facts. Sharron was protecting herself from the News Media that disorts things as well as cut and paste. what they want people to know and hear. Boy I cannot believe how ignoramous you people are. If I ever see you in person I will tell you so to your face. I know for a fact that these things were cut and paste. I KNOW PERSONALLY. I also know that HARRY REID IS THE ONE who along with PEEELOOOSIII promoted OBAMA CARE YOU SHEEPLES> HARRY REID BOWS DOWN TO OBAMA> HARRY REID DOESN’T CARE about the Vets. I have seen this up close, you idiots. Anyone as well as I know that what you guys have mentioned is crap. Sharron was following the constitution. Sharron was more truthfull that Harry Reid who is IN IT FOR HIMSELF> His policies destroyed NEVADA.
    Did you ever check into how HARRY made money for himself. His is a land investor, with suppose numerious rumors of shady deals. YOUR TAXES IS PAYING FOR HARRY REID DC RITZ CARLTON. I was told Sharron was looking for a modest place to stay if elected.

  16. PS

    EVERYONE IN THE COUNTY IF YOU LOOK IT UP. Except Washoe, Clark and I believe Eureka is the only ones that are liberals nuts that voted for Harry.. Namely mostly liberals that have come from cAlifUnUNIA. These liberals think by moving to Nevada they can escape CA, but they are bringing it with them to destroy what Nevada once was, Because CA has gone to Sh*&& in a handbag.

  17. Robert Capozzi

    gp: [Angle] appears to have wanted to take away your right to vote for your Senators, by repealing the 17th amendment.

    me: It seems that the Rockwell crew would disagree with you here, GP, as I do believe they often suggest this as indicated, virtuous even.

    I’m not sure that the 17th A acknowledged a “right” that hadn’t previously existed, but I’m OK with it. But, then, I’m not one to shrink from challenging the alleged plumbline.

  18. To Mr. Phillies

    @23 Actually you really spoke about yourself, because the people who actually know the truth, will know that you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

  19. Michael H. Wilson

    Wayne wrote; “C) Hispanic workers by the thousands were bussed to polls by Democrats and unions (but I repeat myself) to vote for Reid. How do I know? Because Reid was down by 4 in every poll…but won by 5. That’s a 9 point swing. Nevada Republican Congressional candidate Dr. Joe Heck was up by 10 points in polls. He won by less than 1% (in upset over Democratic Congresswoman Dina Titus)- a swing of 9 points too (even though the Republican hung on). ”

    Wayne you know damn well, if you have been following politics for any length of time, that the polls are just a gauge and are not to be counted on in the end.

    In Washington, where I am, there was an initiative on the ballot to enact an income tax. According to a poll released last Thursday likely voters were voting no at 54%. It was voted down by 65%. That is a jump of 11% points in just a few days.

    One thing we have known for years is that people lie to pollsters.

  20. @25 to Michael

    I am glad that income tax was voted down. I was wondering about that. I do know however, that Washington has a problem with cops being all over you nick picky over there from what I understand.

    No doubt, the liberals had a play on wanting that good ole state income tax. Blah.

  21. paulie Post author

    thank you for reminding us how sane our resident crackpots are.

    As if we needed reminding…her paranoia has been on display here quite a bit, along with a few other apparent psych ward escapees.

  22. paulie Post author

    guess you only know what you hear from the Media

    Actually, in this case I only stipulated to the same facts that Wayne Root pointed out in his article. Thanks for playing. Now go see Nurse Ratched, and no palming the pills this time :-)

  23. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Sharron was protecting herself from the News Media that disorts things”

    Yep.

    Thing is, the News Media distort things about EVERY candidate. A winning candidate charges at and through them; a losing candidate hides from them.

    Sharron Angle was a losing candidate, and that was one of the reasons why.

  24. Bee

    Paulie says…”We’re not for closed borders or racial profiling, for one thing. ”

    =======

    Mexico has a closed boarder policy and almost every other country in this world. Are you a legal citizen of this county and want open boarders or are you illegal and want open boarders? I believe that Root is making the arguement for building bridges with the legal Hispanic population, since illegal aliens can not legally vote….yet.

  25. paulie Post author

    Mexico has a closed boarder policy and almost every other country in this world.

    The rights-violating, economy-destroying actions of other regimes don’t excuse or justify the US regime doing the same thing.

    Are you a legal citizen of this county

    Yes, not that I really care to be associated with the regime gang’s claims of legitimacy, but from the tainted perspective underlying your terminology, I am.

    are you illegal

    No human being is illegal.

    I believe that Root is making the arguement for building bridges with the legal Hispanic population

    And most of them support greater migration freedom, as they should, and so should everyone.

  26. tiradefaction

    @30

    So you want to emulate Mexico now? Because they’re so successful eh?

    I’m a legal citizen of this country, and I want open borders.

  27. paulie Post author

    B] Are you a legal citizen of this county

    p] Yes, not that I really care to be associated with the regime gang’s claims of legitimacy, but from the tainted perspective underlying your terminology, I am.

    P2] Not that it was any kind of great achievement, mind you. Due to cold war propaganda purposes, we were considered “refugees” and allowed to “legally” enter the US,
    although the vast majority of people have a much more difficult time migrating to the US in a manner that the regime arbitrarily classifies as legal.

  28. tiradefaction

    @33

    Tell me about it, some of my family has been waiting over 10 years to get in, and still are not in.

  29. RedPhillips

    “Sharron Angle lost because she was a right-wing nut.”

    “are not so much wrong as they are crazy”

    Dr. Phillies you should be above such childish name calling. Your invoking of mental illness to tar traditionalism would make Adorno proud.

    More people identify with Sharon Angle’s brand of “crazy” “right-wing nut” ideas than do your brand of lefty libertarianism. But keep it up, your elitist Blue America open contempt for Red America just drives more people into our camp.

  30. Pingback: Why Sharon Angle Lost | Conservative Heritage Times

  31. Thomas M. Sipos

    Red: “More people identify with Sharon Angle’s brand of “crazy” “right-wing nut” ideas than do your brand of lefty libertarianism.”

    Apparently not enough people identify with Angle so as to get her elected.

    As for the pre-election polling data — the rise of cell phones, texting, and voice mail, have made telephone polls increasingly unreliable.

    Large segments of the population no longer answer their phones. They screen their calls, or let voice mail take it.

    People who still answer their phones are increasingly a non-scientific sample (i.e., they are not a representative demographic cross-section of the population, which is what good, scientific polling requires).

    Polling/scientific sampling is a subject in which I have some first-hand professional experience. I used to work as a TV ratings researcher for a New York media rep firm, back in the 1980s.

  32. Robert Capozzi

    Red: “More people identify with Sharon Angle’s brand of “crazy” “right-wing nut” ideas than do your brand of lefty libertarianism.”

    me: Speaking as a centrist (for lack of a better word) L, I agree. Angle-ism has more adherents than right, center and left L-ism combined.

    That’s an opportunity for growth. People line up with a school of thought, generally with some deviations, because something about the school appeals to them AND because there’s safety in numbers. Agorism, for ex., has few adherents because it either doesn’t appeal or it’s not been well marketed to overcome the objections to build sufficient critical mass.

    Of course, I’m biased, but for the record I think Ls make a mistake focusing on the TPers or progressives. If we have one area for a growth spurt, it’s the RINOs. Leave the social and hawks cons to the right wing where the message is tinged with hate.

    Our better chance is with the Murkowski/Weld/Whitman set. Not necessarily those people, but those who ID with them.

  33. Doug

    Many Hispanics (mestizos) are gang-banging criminals. People have been saying the same thing about blacks — “they are natural conservatives” — for 50 years. Both groups may be social conservative on a few issues, but they both realize it is to their economic advantage to vote for Democrats and support income redistribution from whites.

  34. Nicholas Stix

    Root: “Angle did not have a strong ‘get out the vote’ organization on the ground.

    “The Angle Team (and the Nevada GOP) did not understand the importance of getting out the vote- it’s more important than any visible aspect of a campaign.”

    Within the Democratic Party, “get out the vote” is a euphemism for massive vote fraud. Is Root saying that Angle should have engaged in vote fraud? Or is he just talking nonsense, in order to try and sound smart?

    There is a good chance that Harry Reid benefited from massive vote fraud, but Root doesn’t talk about that, because it doesn’t fit in with his Hispandering shtick.

    Root: “They did not understand how to attract Hispanic votes. And they had better learn fast if they want to win any future elections. Hispanics are good people, family is their foundation…
    Conservatives and Tea Parties must learn how to communicate with and win over Hispanic voters or risk becoming obsolete.”

    “Family is their foundation”? With a 50% illegitimacy rate? I don’t think so. Such idiotic, GOP talking points long ago lost credibility with tens of millions of Republican voters.

    Rovian/Rootian thinking is the root of the GOP’s problems. Root and Rove’s prescription for Hispandering is what is destroying the GOP. Look at Colorado: A strong third party candidate almost reduced the GOP to fringe party status, without an automatic ballot line. That is the GOP’s future. It will be like New York’s Liberal Party under Ray Harding, merely selling endorsements (i.e., taking bribes) to the Democratic Party, in exchange for plum no-show or show-no jobs, because its few percentage points can swing a close election. Already before Harding was convicted in 2009, the party, once an important player, was dead. That assumes that some new party will have taken the place of the GOP. Otherwise, we will have a one-party dictatorship, and the GOP won’t even have leverage as endorsement-whores, assuming opposition parties haven’t been banned by then.

    This election’s success was not due to any perceived strength of the Republican Party. It was a combination of a defensive reaction to “Obama’s” assault on America, and an embrace of the Tea Party movement which Party operatives both hold in contempt and seek to co-opt. The Tea Partiers helped save the GOP from its own Rovian/Rootian operatives.

    There is a simple formula for attracting, communicating, and winning over Hispanic voters: Run as a Democrat! Hispanics almost always vote at least 60% for Democrats, and usually vote 67% for them. Hispandering by the GOP is a surefire formula for losing not only the Hispanic vote, but alienating the white GOP base, as well. John McCain didn’t even win the white vote in 2008. Thus, Dr. Root’s prescription is counterfactual, and will kill the patient.

  35. Nicholas Stix

    I see the thread is overrun with libertarians. You say that Angle was such a terrible candidate. Then how do you explain that she was four points ahead of Reid in the last polls, before losing by five?

    It’s no wonder you hate the Tea Party. The Tea Party is full of patriots, while you guys are waging war on the American people. You see the country as a big, unprotected bank for the looting, not unlike the way the illegal alien invaders whom you support, see us.

  36. Thomas M. Sipos

    Nicholas Stix: “You say that Angle was such a terrible candidate. Then how do you explain that she was four points ahead of Reid in the last polls, before losing by five?”

    I already explained that @ 37.

    Pay attention, please.

  37. paulie Post author

    . Agorism, for ex., has few adherents because it either doesn’t appeal or it’s not been well marketed to overcome the objections to build sufficient critical mass.

    I would say it has not been well marketed.

  38. paulie Post author

    I see the thread is overrun with libertarians.

    The only reason this thread is even on IPR at all is because of Root’s involvement with the Libertarian Party. Otherwise, it would have been off topic for this site. We cover alternative parties and independent candidates. What Democrats and Republicans do doesn’t really interest us that much, except insofar as independent candidates and people involved with alternative parties comment on it, as Root does here.

  39. Tiny Tim

    As a proud European American, I’ll never bow to these mestizo invaders from the south, much less make a political alliance with them.

    “All other racial groups have powers lobbying on their behalf. Blacks have the NAACP, mestizos have La Raza, Asians have the 80-20 Initiative, Indians have USINPAC, etc. What do European Americans have?”

    Exactly.

  40. paulie Post author

    By the way, was Angle a stealth “white pride” candidate or something? We don’t usually get a lot of commenters from that perspective, unless maybe it’s a post about one of the small neo-nazi parties.

  41. What a joke

    I am glad to see that others posted here with good comments that Paulie has trouble accepting. It is true what they say, liberals have a disease problem. It has been verified as they found the gene. LOL. And I am the one who paranoid. No I just know what going on out there in the real world, unlike some people who live in a small box and create a pretend world of what they think is going on.

  42. paulie Post author

    “What a joke”…yes, you are.

    BTW, I guess the problem of getting a bunch of “white pride” commenters is what we must face when do articles about Republican Party politics, even if they are written by Libertarians.

  43. Nate

    Although it really doesn’t justify a response, I can’t help myself:

    @20:
    “Boy I cannot believe how ignoramous you people are.”

    Um, ‘ignoramus’ is a noun. Use the adjective ‘ignorant’ or rephrase the sentence: ‘I cannot believe what ignoramuses you people are.’

    “If I ever see you in person I will tell you so to your face.”

    Ok, but I can’t promise not to laugh at you. :)

  44. Red Phillips

    I agree with Mr. Sipos about the problem with landline polling. This is an issue that the scientific pollsters are going to have to grapple with and overcome.

    Just to be clear, I am not arguing that there is inherent virtue in numbers. My brand of paleocon constitutionalism isn’t exactly embraced by a majority of the population either. I was just reacting to the charge by Dr. Phillies that Angle’s beliefs are some sort of criterion for mental illness. If so, there are a lot of mentally ill people in America.

    Dr. Phillies is obviously the product of his Massachusetts Academia environment. His elitist openly condescending attitude my fly there where making fun of us rubes in flyover country is a popular pastime, but it won’t fly in my district where every political commercial featured the candidate in a plaid shirt on a farm somewhere. Dr. Phillies clearly needs to get out more.

  45. Starchild

    George @15 – Still using the “global warming denier” language?

    We went through this issue before, and I explained why that kind of phrasing is not only offensive (arising as it does from the label “Holocaust deniers” which is applied mainly to neo-Nazis) misleading.

    Skeptics of the political establishment’s anthropogenic global warming (AGW) theory are not claiming warming hasn’t occurred. What we are saying is that the climate changes naturally and humans are not the main cause of it.

    Last time around you never presented evidence to refute the various holes I pointed out in the AGW theory. Care to do so now, or are you just going to keep at it with the offensive and misleading name-calling?

  46. Red Phillips

    “Skeptics of the political establishment’s anthropogenic global warming (AGW) theory are not claiming warming hasn’t occurred. What we are saying is that the climate changes naturally and humans are not the main cause of it.”

    Thanks Starchild. Often AGW believers only listen to their own echo chamber. I’m not even sure I would go as far as saying that honest skeptics say humans are not the main or a primary cause. I think what they say is that we don’t and can’t (at least with the modern state of our knowledge) know for sure what the cause is.

  47. Alaska Constitution Party

    We had our first real snow here (Soldotna & Anchorage, AK) on election day. Some credit this for the lower voter turnout (41 -45%). It was a month later than usual. October was 4 degrees fahrenheit warmer than normal. It is raining here today…

  48. George Phillies

    For an alternative albeit duller explanation

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/03/did-polls-underestimate-democrats-latino-vote/

    In short, for new citizens, you may do better polling them in the language in which they may be most fluent.

    @65 You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to have your opinion respected. I am giving you about the same respect I give evolution deniers, more respect than I give flat earthers, but less respect than I give young earthers.

    However, you might start with the footnotes to
    http://climateprogress.org/2010/02/17/an-illustrated-guide-to-the-latest-climate-science/

    http://climateprogress.org/2010/02/15/the-climate-science-project-global-warming-is-happening-ocean-heat-content/

    http://www.ipcc.ch/

    You should also work through recent years of the major technical journals such as “Climate”. After all, there are thousands of very smart people working on this full time, and intellectual combat is much like “I count coup” in Plains Indian combat: You score by solving problems, and twice if you show that you are right and the other person is wrong.

    If you want to claim that there is some other cause for global warming you need to answer two questions:

    1) Why are the thousands of other calculations and measurements wrong, so that anthropogenic CO2 is not doing what radiative transfer calculations show it does, and

    2) Why are we getting warmer? In your answer, please include at least a one-dimensional radiative transfer calculation showing that your explanation is quantitatively plausible. Also, include a literature search (keywords and Web of Science is sound; Google is unsound because it can only reach the shallow internet, not the deep internet) showing that a reasonable search does not find other people have already had your idea and shown it was wrong.

  49. paulie Post author

    @65 You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to have your opinion respected. I am giving you about the same respect I give evolution deniers, more respect than I give flat earthers, but less respect than I give young earthers.

    I don’t think that was @ 65.

    65 was a link to an Irregular Times article satirizing the Fox News apparent claim that the presence of a smiling black man outside a polling place in Philadelphia was evidence of voter intimidation and fraud.

  50. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Skeptics of the political establishment’s anthropogenic global warming (AGW) theory are not claiming warming hasn’t occurred.”

    Correction:

    Some skeptics of AGW theory are not claiming warming hasn’t occurred.

    Others are claiming exactly that, although usually their “evidence” is either weather as opposed to climate (“it snowed in X earlier than usual!”) or means exactly the opposite of what they think it means (“there’s more ice in the water off Antarctica than ever!” — yeah, moron, that’s because IT’S MELTING AND CALVING ICEBERGS OFF THE FUCKING SHELF).

  51. Robert Capozzi

    gp: You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to have your opinion respected. I am giving you about the same respect I give evolution deniers, more respect than I give flat earthers, but less respect than I give young earthers.

    me: This explains a lot of dysfunctional behavior. Consider respecting ALL opinions, even if you disagree with them…seems a heckuva lot healthier.

    It seems that evolution denial and AGW denial (or skepticism) are very different. In the case of evolution, there’s a physical record of fossils and such that make the theory of evolution plausible and coherent. AGW theory is based on computer modeling, which relies on human observation, human programming, and methodological assumptions, all of which are prone to flaws and oversights.

    Empiricism is no replacement for thorough inquiry (and re-inquiry) and a healthy dose of skepticism about explanations of the physical universe, and lots of “smart” people have believed a lot of things through the ages and now.

    Assume there was a L on the ballot with whom you agreed with on all issues except AGW, would you vote for a AGW denier or skeptic, or is this an unalterable litmus test for you?

    Myself, I’d vote for any of the 3, denier, skeptic or true believer, btw.

    Perhaps the better test — using the bullet-proof Golden Rule — is: would you want a AGW denier who agreed with all your other positions on the issues to vote for YOU? How can you possibly expect them to respect you if you don’t respect them? While you’re considering this, how would you feel about a person who was concerned about the legality of expenditures on your campaign narcing to the FEC on you?

    Respect has to be a 2 way street. If it’s only one way, it’s not really respect, I submit.

  52. Red Phillips

    Phillies #66 was either aimed at me or Starchild, I’m not sure.

    Dr. Phillies you can’t just wave around scientific journals when the climategate scandal PROVES that the science in this area has not always been objective and open to dissenting viewpoints. For myself, I don’t necessarily deny AGW. I just hate politicized science. I shouldn’t be able to predict someone’s political leanings based on where they stand on global warming which is precisely where the debate stands now. Good science is good science whether people like the potential political implications or not. I don’t like the dogmatism on either side.

    What I object to is foot stomping that the debate is settled. No it is not. I don’t care how many Oscars or Nobel Peace Prizes Al Gore wins, the debate is manifestly not settled and increasing the stridency of the insistence that it is doesn’t make it so.

    Tom, most honest skeptics don’t deny a warming trend. What they may rightly question is the reliability of the data we have to establish this. And the fact that the climategate scandal revealed clear cooking of the books and obfuscation about how some of the data was arrived at simply increases this skepticism.

  53. Michael H. Wilson

    Instead of arguing over the issue why don’t we suggest ideas that will lessen the impact even if it may be real?

    Let’s suggest the U.S. reduce its overseas commitments and world wide naval fleets. Thus saving about 1/3 of the fossil fuel it now uses.

    Let’s suggest that the urban transit market be opened to private businesses. Thus giving low income people who often own vehicles that they can’t afford to properly maintain and alternative. This will reduce pollution and maybe save money for low income households, etc., etc.

  54. Robert Capozzi

    mhw, helpful suggestions. I’d go further, suggesting shifting the taxing working, saving and investing to taxing polluting. It’s more direct, and dissuades harmful behavior (possibly very harmful behavior, if we buy AGW).

    rp: Dr. Phillies you can’t just wave around scientific journals when the climategate scandal PROVES that the science in this area has not always been objective and open to dissenting viewpoints. ….I don’t like the dogmatism on either side.

    me: Yes! The only dogma that works is the rejection of dogmatism!

  55. George Phillies

    @74 approximately every Republican Senate candidate denied that there was global warming — liberal hoax — or in a few cases said there could be a natural cause.

    Mind you, there has been an extremely intensive examination of possible natural causes. The most common one mentioned by Republicans is the sun.

    We can measure the sun’s brightness directly.

    The sun is currently driving global cooling, not successfully, but it will turn around in a few years.

  56. George Phillies

    Climategate proves that conservatives will prevaricate at great length. Careful examination showed the climategate claims were substantially false.

    By the way, the data sets that were not maintained by East Anglia tell the same story.

  57. tiradefaction

    @39

    Many whites are business criminals, who cause more damage than “Gang bangers” do by many fold. What’s your point?

  58. paulie Post author

    Instead of arguing over the issue why don’t we suggest ideas that will lessen the impact even if it may be real?

    Let’s suggest the U.S. reduce its overseas commitments and world wide naval fleets. Thus saving about 1/3 of the fossil fuel it now uses.

    Let’s suggest that the urban transit market be opened to private businesses. Thus giving low income people who often own vehicles that they can’t afford to properly maintain and alternative. This will reduce pollution and maybe save money for low income households, etc., etc.

    Ending the war on drugs and the war on hemp/cannabis can also help cut emmissions in a number of ways.

  59. paulie Post author

    Also, ending corporate personhood and non-concensual limited liability thus exposing polluters to full liability/responsibility for their actions.

    And not advantaging petroleum through war for oil and various other government ways of propping up fossel fuels vis a vis other sources of energy the market would naturally develop, if government was not distorting the market.

  60. J

    Did you just say obscene teacher pension and obscene pay-raise. Teachers make less than Garbage men…what are you talking about. How about obscene CEO pensions. Our public school system is in the upper 40’s that is that there are over 40 nations who educate their public better than the U.S. that may have to do with the $30,000 salary. Pay teachers, focus on education, and manufacturing. Jobs that do not involve paperwork and desks. That is what jobs we need to create again.

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