Jason Pye, Doug Mataconis react to Wayne Root pulling out of Rev. Manning’s Obama Birther ‘trial’

DISCLAIMER: IPR Does not take any positions on LNC races. The opinions offered for discussion are those of the original authors.


Jason Pye writes:

Yesterday, I noted that Wayne Allyn Root had seemed to jump off the deep end by participating in a mock trail against Barack Obama based on some ludicrous claims by Pastor James Manning.

Root is backtracking on this today:

I had a chance today for the first time to read about the highlights of the first day of the “Obama trial.” I found myself uncomfortable being involved or associated in any way with the wild charges, claims and conspiracy theories that have been publicly aired by this mock trial. I believe these wild charges and claims actually damage any future legitimate opportunity to question President Obama’s background. This forum has an agenda and I have come to the conclusion it is not my agenda. I called Pastor Manning personally this morning to explain why I’ve decided not to participate. He understood completely. We wished each other well.

That’s just the pointed excerpt. Read through the full post. It sounds more like a kid that got his hand caught in the cookie jar.

The Libertarian Party at the national level is broken. It has been for some time. Whenever we gain a sliver of success we tend to do something in another area that messes it up. I’ve said for some time now that I have little use for the national organization, the five months I spent working on Bob Barr’s campaign solidified that opinion.

That’s not a shot at Bob, by the way. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the guy, and consider him to be a good friend. These are just observations I made while working with the national Libertarian Party and listening to discussions in the campaign office during the summer and fall of 2008.

I’ve learned that my time and money are better spent in my state working on issues that are important to me and the Libertarian Party of Georgia, though I may not always wave the party banner while doing it.

Sorry for getting sidetracked. As of this moment, it’s going to take a lot to bring me back into the fold for Root. The only thing I can say about the election for Chair of the Libertarian National Committee is…NOTA looks strong candidate.

At Below The Beltway, Doug Mataconis reaches the same conclusions, adding:

Jason has a lot more experience with internal LP politics than I do, but he’s absolutely right, and it’s something I’ve seen for years now, and it really started with the internal squabbling that erupted after the 1980 Presidential campaign, which still stands as the high watermark for Libertarian candidates nationally.

It seems pretty clear to me that Root, who seems more interested in self-promotion than much of anything else based on my observations of the man, would represent another one of those mistakes.

Pye and Mataconis are both prominent libertarian bloggers.

The original story was reported at The Agitator, and was picked up by Below The Beltway, The Liberty Papers, Jason Pye, and IPR.

Additionally, we reported that Jim Davidson says he told Wayne Root he remembers Obama from when they were at Columbia.

To date, it appears that Radley Balko has not reacted to Wayne Root’s pulling out of the Birther ‘trial’ at The Agitator.

39 thoughts on “Jason Pye, Doug Mataconis react to Wayne Root pulling out of Rev. Manning’s Obama Birther ‘trial’

  1. paulie Post author

    “Damned if you do…damned if you don’t?”

    And why NOTA? There are five candidates in the chairs race.

  2. John Jay Myers

    Lately I have heard a lot of folks talk about not worrying about “National”. I try to not worry about national as well, I was very content just working events in our State and County.
    Growing the group and even having fun competitions with the other counties.

    BUT… if someone running to be the “face” of the party and you feel he is going to represent you in a very bad way, you have to stand up and stop it.

    I do not want to have to explain “well I know that guy is kind of a hard core GOP guy, but we are actually very different.” Every time I talk to someone about the party.
    Or worse have people join who are pro-War or pro-nanny state because they were misled by bad “branding”.

    Or even having to say, “I know he believes it was an inside job, but that isn’t an official party stance” Or “I know he thinks he was born in Kenya… but ”
    I don’t want to have to start my conversations with any of those things.

    So though some think what national does doesn’t effect them… it does. In a big way.

  3. paulie Post author

    Personally, I think Wayne should get some credit for responding to legitimate criticism and making necessary adjustments.

    He has been pretty good about doing that, and if all he ever gets in return is ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t,’ that can’t be encouraging him to take advice from his critics. I say this as someone who has other preferences in the chairs race.

    For Pye and others, I would urge them to consider Mark Hinkle

    http://mark4chair.com/

    As well as

    John Jay Myers

    http://www.johnjaymyers.com/

    (This is his congressional race page, I don’t know if he has a separate page for the chairs race).

    Also, even if you are not a Phillies fan, I hope you consider the rest of the New Path slate

    http://newpathforthelp.org/

    And their plan

    http://newpathforthelp.org/images/stories/businessplanonly.pdf

    Voting NOTA, if I understand it correctly, just means the rest of the LNC gets to elect a chair, except that they can’t vote for any of the candidates that got beaten out by NOTA, if NOTA wins.

    So, for any delegates seriously considering voting NOTA, it’s especially important that you pay attention to the other races…which you should anyway, whether you vote NOTA or not.

  4. AroundtheblockAFT

    If none of the five can win a majority, after several ballots, then vote NOTA and let the new NatCom pick their chair.

  5. Carolyn Marbry

    Paulie, to some degree I agree with you that he should not be castigated for seeing that he made a monumentally bad call and reversing it. The real problem is that he made that bad call in the first place and had to be SHOWN that it was a bad call. Yeah, sometimes you’re damned if you do and damned if you decide not to at the last minute. I have to give Root credit for changing his mind. I worry that his mind needed changing in the first place. On the other hand, I also understand those who were counting on him who feel betrayed.

    Root’s personal conspiracy theory vs. Hancock’s personal conspiracy theory… y’know, neither is part of the party platform, neither has any prospect of helping solve the problems the LNC is facing right now. This is what I’m talking about when I say that when we’re speaking as officers, we must be able to support AND DEFEND the party platform as given to us by the delegates, not our own personal beliefs, not our own personal agenda. I have serious doubts about Hancock OR Root being able to do this.

    I understand exactly where Myers is coming from here. When I am wearing my CA activist hat and I mention Libertarianism to someone and am met with “oh, Libertarians are nuts, I heard one of them on Fox saying…” and I spend the next ten minutes distancing Libertarianism and the cause du jour from so-and-so’s pet conspiracy theory … this is not helping the party or the movement or the individual issues gain any headway with sensible Americans who are otherwise Libertarian in their viewpoints.

  6. whatever

    While I’m sure our British President appreciates your use of the statist pejorative “birther”; the mock trial in Harlem deals with Barry’s activities in the early 1980s, not the circumstances of his birth and parentage.

    When engaging in collectivist labeling and name-calling as part of your “news” headlines, you should at least endeavor to be accurate.

    Hope this helps.

  7. Brian Holtz

    John, does someone count as “pro-war” if they agreed with the LNC’s 2001 resolution in favor of a constitutionally-declared retaliatory strike against the Afghan regime for harboring Al Qaeda?

    And does someone count as “pro-nanny-state” if they say that entitlements don’t contribute to America’s federal fiscal problems and so aren’t a priority for budget cuts?

    Glass houses. :-)

    I’m not quite ready to equate Root and Hancock on conspiracy theories. At least, not until Root says the LP is “not relevant” unless it addresses Obama Nativity Truth. Or he distributes 17,000 DVDs claiming something as loopy as that Lincoln and JFK were assassinated by international banking interests. Or he distributes DVDs saying Tim McVeigh was a CIA operative working to discredit the militia movement.

    Ms. Marbry, can you recall specifically what somebody told you they heard a nutty libertarian saying on Fox? The only libertarian I watch on Fox is John Stossel. When he’s on, I say: more nuts, please.

  8. David F. Nolan

    Paulie’s suggestions @3 above make a lot of sense. I think an LNC led by either Hinkle or Myers, with the “New Path” candidates filling the remaining officer positions, could unify and lead the LP quite effectively.

  9. paulie Post author

    our British President

    the mock trial in Harlem deals with Barry’s activities in the early 1980s, not the circumstances of his birth and parentage.

    It deals with both, so I feel the term birther is justified.

    It’s not a collectivist label or name-calling, it is just the most commonly accepted term for the various… I’ll be nice, theories…. that Obama has concealed his true national origins, religion, background, etc.

  10. whatever

    I haven’t seen any reporting indicating Obama’s birth is the subject of the mock trial; and you certainly haven’t done any. So your headline remains inaccurate. Your juvenile images betray any claim you have to not be name-calling.

    And just FYI, another inaccuracy, albeit in your pejorative statist comment rather than your pejorative statist headline — Obama has not “concealed” the fact that he is British. It is on his official website:

    “Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.”

    Hope this helps.

  11. Michael Seebeck

    paulie, per the Byalws, if NOTA wins LNC Chair, the nominations reopen with a fresh set of nominees, not including any of the pervious set. See Rule 11.

  12. paulie Post author

    I haven’t seen any reporting indicating Obama’s birth is the subject of the mock trial;

    Au contraire.

    http://www.theagitator.com/2010/05/16/wayne-allyn-root-bonkers/

    Which I quoted in my first story on the subject:

    “Witnesses are expected to testify at the trial that Barack Obama was never a student at Columbia University, although he received a degree from the school…

    Other witnesses are expected to testify that Obama fails the Constitutional test for Presidential eligibility due to the fact that his father was a British subject at the time of his birth and his mother was not old enough to confer citizenship when he was born.

    A dramatic new revelation, however, may serve to re-emphasize the importance of the trial. The state of Hawaii, according to sources, did NOT accept his birth registration that was filed, despite issuing a ’statement of live birth.’

    This could mean that although the state issued a certification of live birth (which is NOT a ‘birth certificate’), the process for filing for an official birth certificate in 1961 was never completed and was thus not accepted by state officials…”

    Pastor Manning’s video, which was also included in the original story I posted, refers to Obama as a “Muslim.”

    See

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=birther

    The meaning I am referring to here is not “A person who derives sexual pleasure from covering him- or herself in fresh placenta while having intercourse with a woman immediately after she has given birth.,” although I suppose it isn’t mutually exclusive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

    # 2 Citizenship rumors and claims

    * 2.1 Claims that Obama was not born in Hawaii
    * 2.2 Hawaiian born, but not “natural-born citizen”
    o 2.2.1 Parental citizenship claims
    o 2.2.2 Dual citizenship claims
    o 2.2.3 Loss of citizenship claims
    * 2.3 Other claims
    o 2.3.1 Claims that the certification of live birth is meaningless
    o 2.3.2 Claims about travel to Pakistan using a non-U.S. passport
    o 2.3.3 Obama’s paternal step-grandmother’s version of events
    o 2.3.4 Claims regarding Kenyan birth certificate

    Includes all the main subject matter of the “trial.”

    So your headline remains inaccurate.

    I stand by it.

    Your juvenile images

    Are accurate.

    betray any claim you have to not be name-calling.

    Comment sections are a different standard than articles. In here I have the right to say what I want within the same generous limits as anyone else.

    pejorative statist comment rather than your pejorative statist headline

    What’s statist about the common sense belief that the president was born in the United States?

    I’d gladly vote him out of office, and he deserves impeachment for all the same reasons as his recent predecessors.

  13. Thomas L. Knapp

    Michael,

    Um, no.

    Per rule 11, if NOTA wins the office is declared vacant. The LNC, not the convention, fills vacancies (bylaws, Article 8, section 6).

  14. whatever

    You and theagitator.com conflated two items from examiner.com regarding Obama’s birth. The second item was an aside and not related to the mock trial. The first claim did relate to the mock trial, but was not sourced. The mock trial is clearly focused on Obama’s activites in the early 1980s.

    As you admitted, you use “birther” as a (collective) term applied to anyone who questions anything in Obama’s autobiography. It is indeed a pejorative, and it is indeed collectivist.

    Comment sections are a different standard than articles.

    Yes, but they betray the bias inherent in your inaccurate, statist and pejorative headline.

    “What’s statist about the … belief that the president was born in the United States? “

    Your inaccurate cut&paste report on the trial only mentioned his nationality, not the location of his birth.

    I stand by it.

    It stands as inaccurate and pejorative and far from a “news” headline

  15. paulie Post author

    You and theagitator.com conflated two items from examiner.com regarding Obama’s birth. The second item was an aside and not related to the mock trial. The first claim did relate to the mock trial, but was not sourced. The mock trial is clearly focused on Obama’s activites in the early 1980s.

    No idea what you are talking about. I already cited my sources and already showed that I previously reported that

    Other witnesses are expected to testify that Obama fails the Constitutional test for Presidential eligibility due to the fact that his father was a British subject at the time of his birth and his mother was not old enough to confer citizenship when he was born.

    A dramatic new revelation, however, may serve to re-emphasize the importance of the trial. The state of Hawaii, according to sources, did NOT accept his birth registration that was filed, despite issuing a ’statement of live birth.’

    This could mean that although the state issued a certification of live birth (which is NOT a ‘birth certificate’), the process for filing for an official birth certificate in 1961 was never completed and was thus not accepted by state officials…”

    That is what is defined as a birther at

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=birther

    If the definitions on the first page are not enough for you, I also did not mean

    “A term for the frothy liquid mixture formed in the vagina when a baby is born. It is a foul smelling combination of maternal blood, vernix, and meconium (baby poop) that drips down over the mother’s anus during the third stage of labor. It is thought to be a contraction of the words “birth” and “lather.”

    Nurse, would you please wipe that birther off the crack of my patient’s ass?”

    On the other hand, I do think that birther theories smell foul, much like this other birther.

    As you admitted, you use “birther” as a (collective) term applied to anyone who questions anything in Obama’s autobiography.

    It is a term that is generally and widely applied to those who believe the president is concealing his true nationality and/or religion.

    However, to tell you the truth, up until now I had no idea that birthers don’t like to be called birthers. After all 9/11 Truthers proudly answer to “truther.”

    I didn’t say “birfer,” did I?

    So, your claim that I did not cite any sources that birther material are a subject of the trial are inaccurate.

    Your claim that it has not been reported elsewhere is inaccurate.

    Your claim that it has not been reported here is also inaccurate.

    and it is indeed collectivist….statist

    Statist?

    That’s absurd. There is nothing “statist” about not buying into birther nonsense.

    And it’s not collectivist, it’s just how the term is generally used.

    only mentioned his nationality, not the location of his birth.

    Whatever, “whatever.”

    Circumstances of birth, location of birth, nationality at birth….same difference.

    far from a “news” headline

    It accurately represents my sources and my extent of knowledge on the subject, which only interests me at all in so far as its connection to Root.

    So if you are correct that my sources got it wrong – my bad. I’m going with Balko as having greater credibility than “whatever” for now though.

    Final call is up to Trent, so if he decides the term “birther” is biased, so be it.

  16. Bob Weber

    Whatever @ #10:

    “I haven’t seen any reporting indicating Obama’s birth is the subject of the mock trial; and you certainly haven’t done any. So your headline remains inaccurate. Your juvenile images betray any claim you have to not be name-calling.”

    From the “Conservative Monster” website covering Fake Pastor Manning’s Fake Trial:

    “4. SHOCKING DETAIL – Landry states that he read the Public Service registry in Pakistan and on that registry it stated – “44th President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama and in parenthesis it said (Kenyan Born).”

    Once you get on the Express Train of Crazy, it goes straight to the end of the line.

  17. paulie Post author

    BTW since birther is apparently a “pejorative” term (news to me) …what do they prefer to be called?

    Seriously, I don’t know.

    But hey, …whatever y’all like to be called… please don’t get mad because I have a conspiracy theory about Barack Obama’s origins too.

    I hope this helps atone for my “statist collectivism” which I demonstrated by using the commonly used term, birther.


    Some of us thought, during Dubai-ya Bush’s court-appointed reign of error, that there was a high chance he would call off the pretense of elections entirely, and use some (possibly engineered) tragic event to stay in office under “emergency” martial law — the better to avoid war crimes prosecution.

    But, I think he stumbled on something even more clever: he went to Mexico, got a tan and some plastic surgery, dropped the fake hillbilly accent and phony dumb cowboy act, and made his way around the pesky problem of the 22nd Amendment to the US Constitution by being elected under a fake name: Barack Obama.

    Not only does this explain why his policies are so seamlessly continuous from one term to the next, but it solves the mystery of the “missing” birth certificate that is constantly brought up by the birther nuts [?????] – even though he was obviously in fact born in the US. It’s just that he was not born as Barack Obama, but as George W. Bush, son of George H. W. Bush.

    Sure, I know how absurd and far-fetched this may sound to some, but can anyone provide a better hypothesis to fit all the observed facts?

    :-P

  18. Constitution Party socialist

    But what about the situations where Bush and Obama have been in the saem room?

  19. paulie Post author

    But what about the situations where Bush and Obama have been in the saem room?

    Optical illusions, stunt doubles, camera tricks.

    They’re He’s not fooling those of us who REALLLY KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    x-P

  20. Michael Seebeck

    Tom @13, Rule 11:

    You are correct, and I misread that, probably mixing up state and national Bylaws.

    However, reopening nominations with a new set of nominees isn’t a bad idea either, and would be a practical fix to the national Bylaws rather than the reams of stuff they’re proposing, abut half of which are either bad ideas or simply unnecessary.

  21. Thomas L. Knapp

    Michael,

    I agree that opening nominations back up instead of punting a vacancy to the new LNC to fill might be a better way of handling things.

    On the other hand, it seems to me that if someone wanted to be (for example) secretary, it would be better to expect them run for it from the get-go than to wait for an entire field of candidates to be ditched in favor of NOTA before throwing in.

  22. paulie Post author

    @ 18, 19, 20, 21, 22

    I am dubbing the movement that I hope will spring up around my new conspiracy the Afterbirthers.

    Who’s with me?

    Somebody start a facebook group or something :-P

  23. Steven R Linnabary

    Paulie, there are ALREADY “Afterbirthers”.

    These are people that claim that Palin’s baby was actually Bristol’s, and demanded that the placenta be tested for dna to determine the actual mother of Trig.

    PEACE

  24. paulie Post author

    Apparently there is more than one group of afterbirthers. From the onion…

    Afterbirthers Demand To See Obama’s Placenta

    August 27, 2009 | ISSUE 45•35

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    05.07.03

    WASHINGTON–In the continuing controversy surrounding the president’s U.S. citizenship, a new fringe group informally known as “Afterbirthers” demanded Monday the authentication of Barack Obama’s placenta from his time inside his mother’s womb. “All we are asking is that the president produce a sample of his fetal membranes and vessels—preferably along with a photo of the crowning and delivery—and this will all be over,” said former presidential candidate and Afterbirthers spokesman Alan Keyes, later adding that his organization would be willing to settle for a half-liter of maternal cord plasma. “To this day, the American people have not seen a cervical mucus plug, let alone one that has been signed and notarized by a state-certified Hawaiian health official. If the president was indeed born in the manner in which he claims, then where is his gestation sac?” Keyes said that if Obama did not soon produce at least a bloody bedsheet from his conception, Afterbirthers would push forward with efforts to exhume the president’s deceased mother and inspect the corpse’s pelvic bone and birth canal.

  25. Root Is Not to be Trusted

    Paulie: “Wayne should get some credit for responding to legitimate criticism and making necessary adjustments.”

    Root withdrew from the Obama trial because he saw the “LP Chair” prize slipping away.

    Root doesn’t respond to, or care about, “legitmate criticism.” Root cares about what’s good for Root.

    Root asks: What does my current audience, which has a prize I currently want, want to hear in return for that prize?

    Had this trial been set after Root won the Chair’s race, he would not have withdrawn from the Obama trial.

    Evidence? Consider Root’s past behavior: Root switched to antiwar when he wanted the LP presidential nomination. But after the VP nomination was safely under his belt, he called for an Afghan surge.

    Root doesn’t “grow.” He doesn’t “get better and better.” He flip flops back and forth, depending on which group has a prize that he wants.

  26. Nexus

    Every time I see/hear Root it’s like I’m watching Mitt Romney’s annoying younger brother who sells used cars in a small town and thinks he’s king of the world. The man is too annoying for words.

  27. paulie Post author

    @18-22

    In other Republican Party news, President Obama is acting more and more like a Republican all the time. Some would even say he is trying to out-Republican the Republicans.

    The future’s so bright, I gotta wear a gas mask…

    O=W=OW

  28. Pingback: New York Constitution Party nominee for Governor, Jan Johnson, presides at Obama Birther ‘trial’ | Independent Political Report

  29. paulie Post author

    Posted at

    http://polizeros.com/2010/05/23/carville-obama-risking-everything-with-go-along-with-bp-strategy/

    by Bob Morris

    HuffPo

    Carville, the famously outspoken Louisianian who was a chief political aide to Bill and Hillary Clinton, told CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Thursday that the administration’s response to the spill has been “lackadaisical” and that Obama was “naive” to trust BP to manage the massive clean-up effort.

    “I’m as good a Democrat as most people, and I think this administration has done some good things. They are risking everything by this ‘go along with BP’ strategy they have that seems like, lackadaisical on this, and Doug is right, they seem like they’re inconvenienced by this, this is some giant thing getting in their way and somehow or another, if you let BP handle it, it’ll all go away. It’s not going away. It’s growing out there. It is a disaster of the first magnitude, and they’ve got to go to Plan B.”

    Obama has consistently backed and supported big business against the interests of the public. He is a corporatist and not naive at all. This, as with his bailout of the banksters, is his chosen policy.

    But when even Carville launches an attack like this…

  30. paulie Post author

    From Irregular times…

    Soliciting Obama Haiku
    posted 5th June 2010 in Barack Obama, Irregular Verse, Politics, Questions by Jim
    How would you sum up President Barack Obama’s first 500 days in haiku form?

    Leave your haiku in the comments.

    Tags: 500 days, Barack Obama, haiku, presidency

    3 Comments to “Soliciting Obama Haiku”
    Horatio says:
    6/6/2010 at 5:14 am
    He is more like Bush
    than I had thought possible.
    Please, what was the point?

    Reply
    Tom says:
    6/6/2010 at 9:20 am
    Great, Horatio!

    Hope and change
    but not for anything progressive.
    What’s the difference?

    An attractive plant
    rising through the concrete.
    Just another weed.

    Reply
    Green Man says:
    6/6/2010 at 9:46 am
    Dreams of my father
    were for more offshore drilling?
    No, I don’t think so.

    Reply

  31. whatever

    Circumstances of birth, location of birth, nationality at birth….same difference.

    Stunning ignorance on display! Of a piece…

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