It also doesn’t follow that the planners’ planning “sucks,” although at least that’s an opinion, not a fact. It certainly looks like the planners are trying to raise revenues in a time when the LP needs funds especially badly

If so, their planning strategy could use some improvement.

A reasonable estimate of planned attendance is 300-500. Averaging that down the middle let’s say 400.

The numbers that I have seen are that 10-15% typically don’t buy packages. Let’s average that at 12.5%

Doing this in my head, at $100 a pop that means the revenue that may be raised this way is $5,000 or so.

On the other side of the ledger:

* Premium packages have been discounted by about $100 as a result

* It is likely that some people will not attend at all – either because the cost is make or break for them, or out of protest. And that means they won’t make any contributions they may have made once there.

* Others may still attend, but only buy a basic package (even though they could have afforded a premium package) out of protest/solidarity

* Some people – whether they would have attended or not – will not renew, or scale back their involvement in the party, in protest. How much will all that ill will cost?

* Young people – who could have been the next generation of party leaders, lifelong donors, candidates, activists – will be most discouraged from attending and getting more involved. How much long term opportunity cost does this represent?

* For anyone watching on CSPAN, youtube, etc., the party will appear even less diverse, exacerbating an existing problem and reinforcing unfortunate stereotypes and misconceptions about our motives.

* How much LNC, state committee, possibly Judicial Committee, conceivably legal counsel (note: I am NOT recommending anyone pursue that), and party activist time will be wasted just debating the issue, regardless how it comes out? That alone is probably worth more than 5k.

Now, the argument may be made that a more unanimous LNC, free of its radical dissenters, and a party with fewer radicals involved will be able to recruit/retain disgruntled Republicans more easily.

I don’t believe the data so far bolsters this argument, but we may yet see.

me: I’m NOT a floor fee advocate, but it should be obvious that your logic here is tortured. I haven’t seen ANY floor fee advocate disputing that past conventions haven’t had them, so you employ a strawman argument, perhaps inadvertently?

It also doesn’t follow that the planners’ planning “sucks,” although at least that’s an opinion, not a fact. It certainly looks like the planners are trying to raise revenues in a time when the LP needs funds especially badly. It also appears to be motivated to address intra-party cross-subsidization.

Personally, I think springing the fee this late in the game was a mistake. Some delegates were selected BEFORE this fee was announced, layering a fee onto this subset of people strikes me as especially unfair.

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Mr. Nolan – I was there. The overwhelming majority of the audience was sitting at tables, eating breakfast. I seriously doubt the Neale’s would have let people eat that breakfast for free, or for $10. You are welcome to get Geoff or Nancy to post here and tell us the correct details about that breakfast.

One difference of the CA cruise convention was that there was not an over 50% discounted fare – and a one night stay was prohibitive.

Thank you for helping to clarify what I was trying to say.

Tony is currently on the LNC, BetteRose used to be on the LNC, and all three have been on the LPCO Board at one point or another, including Tony with me, and BetteRose is a former LPCO State Chair.

The BetteRose Cookbook is what they used in Denver, and what we always used in CO, with no floor fees and profits usually made, including the one I helped organize in Colorado Springs in 2003.

Yet I seem to recall them getting blasted in an Executive Session a while back before the convention because of Shotgun Willie’s, aka to Colorado folks, the Glendale Ballet, as a sponsor–a welcome institution at LPCO events for years (Proving once again that no good deed goes unpunished…).

When I heard Denver was doing the convention, I asked one question: “Are the Ryans doing it?” I was told yes, and immediately booked it, because I knew that things were goign to be done right, and I was most definitely proven right.

Moral of the story for you floor fee advocates: IT CAN AND HAS BEEN DONE WELL WITHOUT THEM, which means your planning sucks, and that’s the core of the issue.

I recommended the ORGANIZERS of the event because they have created a week-long, event with speakers, activities, and water park admission with NO registration fees and room rates of LESS THAN HALF the hotels normal price. It was a huge bargain without the conference.

Just FYI – Requiring that attendees stay at the resort was explained by the organizers as follows: “Otherwise, we could be bombarded by literally thousands of nearby homeschooling families partaking in our events, filling our seating space for our featured speakers, dropping their kids off in our funshops, using our supplies, etc.. ”

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Sounds just like the Libertarian Party of California’s Convention that was held on a cruise ship. The overall cost of THAT Convention was the same or a little cheaper than the cost of the Gold Packages plus accomodations at the previous 1 or 2 LP of California Conventions

I recommended the ORGANIZERS of the event because they have created a week-long, event with speakers, activities, and water park admission with NO registration fees and room rates of LESS THAN HALF the hotels normal price. It was a huge bargain without the conference.

Just FYI – Requiring that attendees stay at the resort was explained by the organizers as follows: “Otherwise, we could be bombarded by literally thousands of nearby homeschooling families partaking in our events, filling our seating space for our featured speakers, dropping their kids off in our funshops, using our supplies, etc.. ”

The LP could only dream of having local folks trying to sneak in to hear our speakers!

I went to the Unschool Gathering web site.

This is from their FAQ page…

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Q – “Can we attend the conference and hear Gatto and the others, without having to stay overnight at the Kalahari Resort?”

A – “NO. Only those registered with the Resort through our UWWG group, will be allowed to partake in any UWWG event – NO EXCEPTIONS! All UWWG registered guests will be given the same colored wristband upon check-on. Only those wearing our designated colored wristband will be allowed entry in any UWWG event, talk, or funshop.”

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So- technically – there is no “Registration Fee.” But no one can even ATTEND the conference unless they stay at the Official Event Hotel. I am sure that would go over really well with Libertarian Party Convention Delegates. And the most inexpensive room is $99 per night. So – I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out the mandatory minimum “fee” required to attend the Unschool Gathering.

Plus – I kind of doubt that that Resort has a meeting room that will accomodate 500 to 800 people in classroom style seating.

I am certainly willing to look at alternative ways of holding Libertarian Party National Conventions that make the Convention as affordable as possible. However, one must keep in mind all of the requirements that our Delegates seem to demand for their Conventions. For example – we could use smaller meeting rooms IF our delegates are willing to forgo having tables in front of them. And so on.

A: Hire the folks that managed to organize the 2008 Convention in Denver with a profit while requiring NO floor fees for delegates to vote.

B: Learn from a small volunteer group of un-schooling moms that put on a week-long conference for 375 families with NO Registration or Conference fees. Four days filled with speakers, Low room rates ($99.00), included daily admission to the world’s largest indoor water park and additional bonus freebies. The details of all this are still available on line.
http://www.ugo.unschoolgathering.com/

The LP leadership boasts several well educated folks. I think they could do so much better.

Thank you for your occasional sanity!

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Ms. Marbry – what you are asking for is PRECISELY what the Convention Committee is doing with the pricing for the Basic Registration Fee for the 2010 National LP Convention.

The cost per delegate figure to the National LP for the cost of the Convention Hall ONLY is $80. When you factor in the slightly higher price for LP Delegates not staying in the Convention Hotel, and the lower, after-rebate amount for those who do stay in the Hotel, the Convention Committee prices are just about break-even for the costs solely connected with the Convention Hall.

As to the Republican Party of California example – I have also posted links to 2 other political parties that charge mandatory Registration Fees for their Convention Delegates.

IOW – charging a mandatory Convention Registration Fee for all Delegates is not unusual – it is the norm for United States Political Parties. I agree that that does not mean the Libertarian Party should AUTOMATICALLY charge such a fee, but I have to ask why a political party that is in favor of “user pays” would suddenly reject that principle for our own Conventions.

And – just as an aside, I would bet there were at least 500 people in the meeting room where Neal Boortz spoke at the 2004 LP Convention in Atlanta – at 8am no less.

Do you consider those 500 plus people to all be “silly”?

So really, what the GOP does is not the model upon which I believe we should build our party.

In the resolution I presented to the CA excomm, it specifically says that extra events should be self-sustaining. There is no reason why someone paying $99/49 for the basic package should have their money going to fund the banquet for those silly enough to want to see Neil Boortz speak. After all, TANSTAAFL, right?

Let those who would attend the banquet pay for it since it is NOT tied to party business and is absolutely voluntary. But party business is a responsibility, not a privilege, and as such, we should not require people to pay to execute it.

And they also make it clear that the “extra events” cost extra money.

https://secure.repweb.net/cagop/forms/convention/

(hat tip to Bruce Cohen for the link)