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	<title>Comments on: Liberty Point: &#8216;How serious is the Libertarian Party about being taken seriously?&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/</link>
	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
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		<title>By: Noah David Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137648</link>
		<dc:creator>Noah David Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137648</guid>
		<description>there is nothing to win in Afghan. war must have goals. our goal should be setting a punitive precedent to those that attack us and should never be about rebuilding our enemies. time to leave the Afghan and bomb Iran&#039;s nuclear capability on the same day. we don&#039;t need ground troops to do this.  as for the Ron Paul&#039;s of the world they have no creativity. their solutions are what led us into this mess to begin with. Paul forgets that the root of the problem began because of internationalist free trade that Ron is now pushing again. the West supported the Shah because he promised to pay back debts, but it is obvious that a free market in societies that are not ready is not the solution. Capitalism can not be internationalist and can only work within Republican frameworks. when I say Republican framework... I don&#039;t mean the party, but rather I mean the idea of checks and balances within a border. Internationalist Anarcho-Capitalism aka Libertarianism is as bad as any other Internationalist theory without limit. it is nothing but the NWO in a new guise. It is no surprise that Ron Paul is appearing on Russian television all the time. the man obviously has bias and investment in those that would benefit from monopolizing resources like natural gas to Europe. It isn&#039;t that Libertarianism is a theory it is rather that is is deliberate bias and orchestrated prejudice against what would be good for citizens of any Republic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is nothing to win in Afghan. war must have goals. our goal should be setting a punitive precedent to those that attack us and should never be about rebuilding our enemies. time to leave the Afghan and bomb Iran&#8217;s nuclear capability on the same day. we don&#8217;t need ground troops to do this.  as for the Ron Paul&#8217;s of the world they have no creativity. their solutions are what led us into this mess to begin with. Paul forgets that the root of the problem began because of internationalist free trade that Ron is now pushing again. the West supported the Shah because he promised to pay back debts, but it is obvious that a free market in societies that are not ready is not the solution. Capitalism can not be internationalist and can only work within Republican frameworks. when I say Republican framework&#8230; I don&#8217;t mean the party, but rather I mean the idea of checks and balances within a border. Internationalist Anarcho-Capitalism aka Libertarianism is as bad as any other Internationalist theory without limit. it is nothing but the NWO in a new guise. It is no surprise that Ron Paul is appearing on Russian television all the time. the man obviously has bias and investment in those that would benefit from monopolizing resources like natural gas to Europe. It isn&#8217;t that Libertarianism is a theory it is rather that is is deliberate bias and orchestrated prejudice against what would be good for citizens of any Republic.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137518</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137518</guid>
		<description>&lt;img src=&quot;http://economicsociology.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/what-me-worry-715605.jpg&quot;&gt;</description>
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		<title>By: MAYBE YOU SHOULD WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN SINS</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137462</link>
		<dc:creator>MAYBE YOU SHOULD WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN SINS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137462</guid>
		<description>It should be left up to the people, it is between them and G-d, for you people to judge others you will have to deal with G-d your own selves for your own sins, and I am sure you are far from clean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be left up to the people, it is between them and G-d, for you people to judge others you will have to deal with G-d your own selves for your own sins, and I am sure you are far from clean.</p>
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		<title>By: Mik Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137290</link>
		<dc:creator>Mik Robertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137290</guid>
		<description>@3 I agree  the Green Tax Shift is a positive agenda that addresses many of the same problems the D&#039;s and R&#039;s try to address that can be put forward as a good alternative. It also something a lot of alternative candidates from different backgrounds can get behind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@3 I agree  the Green Tax Shift is a positive agenda that addresses many of the same problems the D&#8217;s and R&#8217;s try to address that can be put forward as a good alternative. It also something a lot of alternative candidates from different backgrounds can get behind.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137254</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137254</guid>
		<description>In response to this post:

&quot;2) I can’t agree that the LP is perceived as being part of the “religious” right. Our positions have been consistently pro-choice and pro- personal freedom, and I’m pretty sure the LP has never invoked any deities in its publications or national meetings.&quot;

If the basis of libertarian thought is the zero aggression principle then libertarians should be pro-life. Killing a baby, no matter how old is definitely an act of agression. I&#039;ve seen many libertarians try to argue the issue on the basis of property rights, as if the baby is a trespasser on the mother&#039;s property (her womb) this is a fallacious argument.  

I consider myself a pretty moderate libertarian but on the issue of abortion I strongly disagree with the LP platform. The platform basically says the issue should be left up to individuals, as if they somehow have to right to kill another person merely because they&#039;re inconveniencing them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to this post:</p>
<p>&#8220;2) I can’t agree that the LP is perceived as being part of the “religious” right. Our positions have been consistently pro-choice and pro- personal freedom, and I’m pretty sure the LP has never invoked any deities in its publications or national meetings.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the basis of libertarian thought is the zero aggression principle then libertarians should be pro-life. Killing a baby, no matter how old is definitely an act of agression. I&#8217;ve seen many libertarians try to argue the issue on the basis of property rights, as if the baby is a trespasser on the mother&#8217;s property (her womb) this is a fallacious argument.  </p>
<p>I consider myself a pretty moderate libertarian but on the issue of abortion I strongly disagree with the LP platform. The platform basically says the issue should be left up to individuals, as if they somehow have to right to kill another person merely because they&#8217;re inconveniencing them.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Holtz</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137219</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Holtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137219</guid>
		<description>Rhys, you&#039;re of course not alone in wanting the LP to become a viable force for moving public policy in a libertarian direction.  In fact, nearly all Libertarians want that.  Some of us are online here: http://reformthelp.org

I agree completely with your motives and goals, so (in typical Libertarian fashion) I&#039;ll only write about a few disagreements about strategy and tactics.

1) You say Ed Clark&#039;s presidential candidacy turned you into a Libertarian, and then you say we shouldn&#039;t run presidential candidates.  I want more people like you in the LP, so I favor running more Ed Clarks for president.

2) I can&#039;t agree that the LP is perceived as being part of the &quot;religious&quot; right.  Our positions have been consistently pro-choice and pro- personal freedom, and I&#039;m pretty sure the LP has never invoked any deities in its publications or national meetings.

3) Libertarian campaign resources aren&#039;t really fungible in the way you seem to think they are. Nearly all LP campaigns are self-financed by our candidates, and there isn&#039;t much hope in getting our candidates to stand down en masse and focus their resources on a few races.  However, there is an LP organization that seeks to focus LP contributions in a similar way: http://www.lncc.org/.  I hope that all Libertarians who favor your strategy will donate generously to this effort.

4) I agree that being a swing minority voting bloc in a legislature could help us move public policy.  I think the same is true for being a swing voting bloc in elections themselves. I  agree with a strategy of not opposing a major-party candidate when 1) he is sufficiently better than his major-party opponent and 2) the absence of LP opposition could plausibly tip the race to him.  The Republican poster child here would obviously be Ron Paul.  Who would you say is the Democrat poster child?

5) I agree that now is a great time to weaken the Republican Party and recruit from the debris, but we must do so in a way that doesn&#039;t make us seem more conservative/Right.  Our branding must always say that we are the only choice that is neither Left nor Right, neither liberal nor conservative.

6) Deference to the LP&#039;s anarchists prevents the LP itself from officially saying very much in response to your excellent questions about the purpose of the State, how to reform taxes, etc.  However, our Platform now gives room to both minarchist and anarchist candidates to offer their own best answers to your questions.  My favorite answers are to promote 1) a strict interpretation of the Constitution and 2) a Green Tax Shift: http://knowinghumans.net/2008/01/tax-bads-and-untax-goods-with-green-tax.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rhys, you&#8217;re of course not alone in wanting the LP to become a viable force for moving public policy in a libertarian direction.  In fact, nearly all Libertarians want that.  Some of us are online here: <a href="http://reformthelp.org" rel="nofollow">http://reformthelp.org</a></p>
<p>I agree completely with your motives and goals, so (in typical Libertarian fashion) I&#8217;ll only write about a few disagreements about strategy and tactics.</p>
<p>1) You say Ed Clark&#8217;s presidential candidacy turned you into a Libertarian, and then you say we shouldn&#8217;t run presidential candidates.  I want more people like you in the LP, so I favor running more Ed Clarks for president.</p>
<p>2) I can&#8217;t agree that the LP is perceived as being part of the &#8220;religious&#8221; right.  Our positions have been consistently pro-choice and pro- personal freedom, and I&#8217;m pretty sure the LP has never invoked any deities in its publications or national meetings.</p>
<p>3) Libertarian campaign resources aren&#8217;t really fungible in the way you seem to think they are. Nearly all LP campaigns are self-financed by our candidates, and there isn&#8217;t much hope in getting our candidates to stand down en masse and focus their resources on a few races.  However, there is an LP organization that seeks to focus LP contributions in a similar way: <a href="http://www.lncc.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.lncc.org/</a>.  I hope that all Libertarians who favor your strategy will donate generously to this effort.</p>
<p>4) I agree that being a swing minority voting bloc in a legislature could help us move public policy.  I think the same is true for being a swing voting bloc in elections themselves. I  agree with a strategy of not opposing a major-party candidate when 1) he is sufficiently better than his major-party opponent and 2) the absence of LP opposition could plausibly tip the race to him.  The Republican poster child here would obviously be Ron Paul.  Who would you say is the Democrat poster child?</p>
<p>5) I agree that now is a great time to weaken the Republican Party and recruit from the debris, but we must do so in a way that doesn&#8217;t make us seem more conservative/Right.  Our branding must always say that we are the only choice that is neither Left nor Right, neither liberal nor conservative.</p>
<p>6) Deference to the LP&#8217;s anarchists prevents the LP itself from officially saying very much in response to your excellent questions about the purpose of the State, how to reform taxes, etc.  However, our Platform now gives room to both minarchist and anarchist candidates to offer their own best answers to your questions.  My favorite answers are to promote 1) a strict interpretation of the Constitution and 2) a Green Tax Shift: <a href="http://knowinghumans.net/2008/01/tax-bads-and-untax-goods-with-green-tax.html" rel="nofollow">http://knowinghumans.net/2008/01/tax-bads-and-untax-goods-with-green-tax.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Don Lake .......... The USSR messed up in Afghanistan also</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137209</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Lake .......... The USSR messed up in Afghanistan also</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137209</guid>
		<description>Told ya so, told ya so ...........

and best wishes for PROGRESS 

in the real world!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Told ya so, told ya so &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>and best wishes for PROGRESS </p>
<p>in the real world!</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Sundwall</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/liberty-point-how-serious-is-the-libertarian-party-about-being-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-137164</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Sundwall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10972#comment-137164</guid>
		<description>bakatcha Rhys: 

1. How should ballot access laws be fixed ? 

2. Beyond movements and interests what role does a third party ever realistically play ? 

3. What have you run for recently or helped with ? 

4. How does &#039;meaningful&#039; immediately parlay into practical realism ? 

5. Media expectation is driven by results which typically only fall into an either/or scenario.  Will you bring in a new breed of liberty candidate who can wield this issue ? 

6. How do other debating societies around the world fare when doing things all political ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bakatcha Rhys: </p>
<p>1. How should ballot access laws be fixed ? </p>
<p>2. Beyond movements and interests what role does a third party ever realistically play ? </p>
<p>3. What have you run for recently or helped with ? </p>
<p>4. How does &#8216;meaningful&#8217; immediately parlay into practical realism ? </p>
<p>5. Media expectation is driven by results which typically only fall into an either/or scenario.  Will you bring in a new breed of liberty candidate who can wield this issue ? </p>
<p>6. How do other debating societies around the world fare when doing things all political ?</p>
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