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	<title>Comments on: Libertarian Party: How Liberty Makes Health Care Virtually Universal</title>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145749</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145749</guid>
		<description>&quot;Left-wing Anarchists, out of the Lennin, Emma Goldman, Noam Chomsky and even Stalin mode&quot;

That gumball machine you got your poli-sci degree from didn&#039;t serve you very well.

Lenin was no anarchist. He got his start with the  Narodnya Volya, a Russian group which assassinated Tsar Alexander II (Lenin&#039;s brother was hanged over that). Their politics were social democratic.

After that, his political thought turned increasingly to centralization of authority, the antithesis of anarchism. In 1905, he specifically praised the Soviet of Workers Deputies for &lt;em&gt;excluding&lt;/em&gt; anarchists.

Before the Bolsheviks managed to gain total control of Russia, they tolerated the anarchists to an extent. Kropotkin was allowed to return to Russia. When Emma Goldman and Alexander Berkman were deported from the US, they were allowed to live in Russia, from which they eventually fled. The Red Army worked briefly with Nestor Makhno&#039;s anarchist army in the Ukraine to beat the whites ... and then turned on and liquidated the Makhnovists.

By the time Stalin took power, most Russian anarchists had left the country. Those that were left disappeared into the gulag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Left-wing Anarchists, out of the Lennin, Emma Goldman, Noam Chomsky and even Stalin mode&#8221;</p>
<p>That gumball machine you got your poli-sci degree from didn&#8217;t serve you very well.</p>
<p>Lenin was no anarchist. He got his start with the  Narodnya Volya, a Russian group which assassinated Tsar Alexander II (Lenin&#8217;s brother was hanged over that). Their politics were social democratic.</p>
<p>After that, his political thought turned increasingly to centralization of authority, the antithesis of anarchism. In 1905, he specifically praised the Soviet of Workers Deputies for <em>excluding</em> anarchists.</p>
<p>Before the Bolsheviks managed to gain total control of Russia, they tolerated the anarchists to an extent. Kropotkin was allowed to return to Russia. When Emma Goldman and Alexander Berkman were deported from the US, they were allowed to live in Russia, from which they eventually fled. The Red Army worked briefly with Nestor Makhno&#8217;s anarchist army in the Ukraine to beat the whites &#8230; and then turned on and liquidated the Makhnovists.</p>
<p>By the time Stalin took power, most Russian anarchists had left the country. Those that were left disappeared into the gulag.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145704</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145704</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d also say that Tom is too modest in his estimate of his own role. While he may not be in the same league (yet) as some of the others mentioned in forming the theoretical basis of individualist left-libertarian anarchist thought, he has been a tremendous force in spreading/popularizing, explaining and defending it to a larger audience.  

I tend to think that is at least as important as providing scholarly theoretical foundations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d also say that Tom is too modest in his estimate of his own role. While he may not be in the same league (yet) as some of the others mentioned in forming the theoretical basis of individualist left-libertarian anarchist thought, he has been a tremendous force in spreading/popularizing, explaining and defending it to a larger audience.  </p>
<p>I tend to think that is at least as important as providing scholarly theoretical foundations.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145702</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145702</guid>
		<description>Non-capitalist anarchists are frequently libertarians. *

*However, not all left wing anarchists are libertarians in the sense that the term is generally now used in the US. 

Many left wing anarchists do not believe that there can or should be an individual right to own property, and instead believe that individual property is theft from the community - and that the community is justified in using what they consider to be responsive force in destroying attempts to exercise claim of individual property. Other anarchists counter that in practice this amounts to a government, and a tyrannical one at that.

Konkin was not one of the ones who opposed individual property rights - he was firmly in the libertarian camp, although he opposed participation in electoral politics and thus considered the Libertarian Party to be anti-libertarian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non-capitalist anarchists are frequently libertarians. *</p>
<p>*However, not all left wing anarchists are libertarians in the sense that the term is generally now used in the US. </p>
<p>Many left wing anarchists do not believe that there can or should be an individual right to own property, and instead believe that individual property is theft from the community &#8211; and that the community is justified in using what they consider to be responsive force in destroying attempts to exercise claim of individual property. Other anarchists counter that in practice this amounts to a government, and a tyrannical one at that.</p>
<p>Konkin was not one of the ones who opposed individual property rights &#8211; he was firmly in the libertarian camp, although he opposed participation in electoral politics and thus considered the Libertarian Party to be anti-libertarian.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145701</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145701</guid>
		<description>Non-capitalist anarchists are frequently libertarians. Mutualist anarchists who support the non-initiation of coercion principle are libertarians, and have nothing to do with statists like Lenin and Stalin. 

Tom beat me to it at #20 in mentioning Long and Johnson, but I would add Karl Hess in his later years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hess#Political_activities

&lt;i&gt;As a speechwriter for Barry Goldwater, Hess explored ideology and politics and attracted some public interest. He was widely considered to be the author of the infamous Goldwater line, &quot;Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue,&quot; but revealed that he had encountered it in a letter from Lincoln historian Harry Jaffa and later learned it was a paraphrase of a passage from Cicero.[2] Regardless of the line&#039;s origin, Goldwater spoke it in his acceptance speech for the Republican presidential nomination and, according to Playboy magazine, the words alienated many voters and may have cost Goldwater the election. Hess was also the primary author of the Republican Party&#039;s 1960 and 1964 platforms. He later called this his &quot;Cold Warrior&quot; phase.

Following the 1964 presidential campaign in which Lyndon Johnson trounced Goldwater, Hess became disillusioned with traditional politics and became more radical. He parted with the Republicans altogether and began working as a heavy-duty welder. He publicly criticized big business, suburban American hypocrisy and the military-industrial complex. Though well beyond college age, Hess joined Students for a Democratic Society, worked with the Black Panther Party and protested the Vietnam War.

During that time, newly elected President Johnson, a Democrat who was apparently displeased with Hess for having been a Republican, ordered the IRS to audit him. When Hess asked if a certain deduction he had claimed was right, his auditor reportedly replied, &quot;It doesn&#039;t matter if it&#039;s right; what matters is the law.&quot; Incensed that the auditor would see a difference between what was &quot;right&quot; and &quot;law,&quot; Hess sent the IRS a copy of the Declaration of Independence with a letter saying that he would never again pay taxes. The IRS charged him with tax resistance, confiscated most of his property and put a 100% lien on his future earnings. When implementing the penalty, the IRS told Hess that he no longer would be permitted to possess money; he reminded them that without money he could not buy food and would soon die. The IRS said that was his problem, not theirs. Remarkably, Hess was never incarcerated on this matter, probably due to astute, pro bono legal representation and his status as a folk hero. He was supported financially thereafter by his wife and used barter to keep himself busy. Later, however, he expressed ambivalence about becoming America&#039;s most notorious tax resister and wrote that his act of civil disobedience could have effected dramatic reforms in tax law had 10 million or more of his fellow Americans joined him in defying the IRS.[3]

In 1968, Richard Nixon was elected president and Barry Goldwater went to Washington as Arizona&#039;s junior senator. Hess, despite now being a member of the New Left, had recently written some speeches for Goldwater and resumed their close personal relationship; he had grown convinced that American men should not be forced into military service and urged Goldwater to submit legislation abolishing conscription. Goldwater replied, &quot;Well, let&#039;s wait and see what Dick Nixon wants to do about that one.&quot; Hess despised Nixon almost as much as he admired Goldwater and could not tolerate the notion that Goldwater would defer to Nixon. Thus ended one of Hess&#039;s closest professional associations and significantly compromised one of his deepest friendships.

Hess began reading American anarchists largely due to the recommendations of his friend Murray Rothbard. Hess said that upon reading the works of Emma Goldman he discovered that anarchists believed everything he had hoped the Republican Party would represent, and that Goldman was the source for the best and most essential theories of Ayn Rand without any of the &quot;crazy solipsism that Rand was so fond of.&quot;[4]

From 1969 to 1971 Hess edited the The Libertarian Forum with Rothbard.

Hess eventually put his focus on the small scale, on community. He said, “Society is: people together making culture.” He deemed two of his cardinal social principles as being “opposition to central political authority” and “concern for people as individuals.” His rejection of standard American party politics was reflected in a lecture he gave during which he said &quot;The Democrats or liberals think that everybody is stupid and therefore they need somebody... to tell them how to behave themselves. The Republicans think everybody is lazy...&quot;[5]

In 1969 and 1970, Hess joined with others, including Murray Rothbard, Robert LeFevre, Dana Rohrabacher, Samuel Edward Konkin III, and former Students for a Democratic Society leader Carl Oglesby to speak at two &quot;left-right&quot; conferences which brought together activists from both the Old Right and the New Left in what was emerging as a nascent libertarian movement.[6] Hess later joined the Libertarian Party which was founded in 1971, and served as editor of its newspaper from 1986 to 1990.
[edit] Adams-Morgan experiment and back-to-the-land

Hess was an early proponent of the &quot;back to the land&quot; movement, and his focus on self-reliance and small communities happened in part by government mandate. According to a Libertarian Party News obituary, &quot;When the Internal Revenue Service confiscated all his property and put a 100 percent lien on all of his future earnings, Hess (who had taught himself welding) existed on bartering his work for food and goods.&quot;[7]

With Goldwater’s 1964 defeat, Hess and others on the losing team had found themselves outsiders within the national Republican party due to their support of that controversial politician. Anticipating that making a living as a speechwriter thereafter might prove a challenge, Hess had begun to learn welding. This activity put him in rapport with a very large segment of the American population who are manual laborers. He eventually came to the conviction that virtually no one in national politics identified with these people anymore. When Hess revolted against public giantism – a distrust toward large-corporate business as well as big government – his conviction prompted him to withhold federal income tax payment; legal troubles ensued, but he had welding skills (and the practice of barter) to fall back on. After Hess had made friends within the New Left and related circles, he began to encounter the young, new-breed “appropriate technology” enthusiasts[8] (exemplified, by the late 1960s, in the editors and readerships of the Whole Earth Catalog and Mother Earth News).

In the early 1970s, Hess became involved in an experiment with several friends and colleagues to bring self-built and -managed technology into the direct service of the economic and social life of the poor, largely African American neighborhood of Adams-Morgan in Washington, D.C.. It was the neighborhood in which Hess had spent his childhood. Afterward, Hess wrote a book entitled Community Technology which told the story of this experiment and its results. According to Hess, the residents had a vigorous go at participatory democracy, and the neighborhood seemed for a time like a fertile ground for the growth of community identity and capability.

Much of the technological experimentation Hess and others engaged in there was successful in technical terms (apparatus was built, food raised, solar energy captured, etc.). For instance, Hess wrote: &quot;In one experiment undertaken by the author and associates, an inner-city basement space, roughly thirty by fifty feet, was sufficient to house plywood tanks in which rainbow trout were produced at a cost of less than a dollar per pound. In a regular production run the total number of fish that can be raised in such a basement area was projected to be five tons per year.&quot;[9] He taught courses and lectured on Appropriate Technology and Social Change in this period at the Institute for Social Ecology in Vermont. Nonetheless, the Adams-Morgan neighborhood, continuing on what he felt was a path of social deterioration and real-estate gentrification, declined to devote itself to expanding on the technology. Hence, in his view, a needy community got little value from the application of viable technology.

Subsequently, Hess and his wife, Therese, moved to rural Opequon Creek, West Virginia, where he set up a welding shop to support his household. He became deeply involved with local affairs there. Hess built an affordable house that relied largely on passive-solar heating, and took an interest in wind power and all forms of solar energy. By the late 1970s, he saw solar energy as emblematic of decentralization and nuclear energy as emblematic of central organization.[8]

Hess wrote for and later edited a survivalist newsletter titled Personal Survival (&quot;P.S.&quot;) Letter, which was published from 1977 to 1982. It was first published and edited by Mel Tappan. Following Tappan&#039;s death in 1980, Hess took over editing and publishing the newsletter, eventually renaming it Survival Tomorrow. In the same time period, Hess authored the book A Common Sense Strategy for Survivalists.

Hess ran a symbolic campaign for Governor of West Virginia in 1992. When asked by a reporter what his first act would be if elected, he quipped, &quot;I will demand an immediate recount.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non-capitalist anarchists are frequently libertarians. Mutualist anarchists who support the non-initiation of coercion principle are libertarians, and have nothing to do with statists like Lenin and Stalin. </p>
<p>Tom beat me to it at #20 in mentioning Long and Johnson, but I would add Karl Hess in his later years.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hess#Political_activities" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hess#Political_activities</a></p>
<p><i>As a speechwriter for Barry Goldwater, Hess explored ideology and politics and attracted some public interest. He was widely considered to be the author of the infamous Goldwater line, &#8220;Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue,&#8221; but revealed that he had encountered it in a letter from Lincoln historian Harry Jaffa and later learned it was a paraphrase of a passage from Cicero.[2] Regardless of the line&#8217;s origin, Goldwater spoke it in his acceptance speech for the Republican presidential nomination and, according to Playboy magazine, the words alienated many voters and may have cost Goldwater the election. Hess was also the primary author of the Republican Party&#8217;s 1960 and 1964 platforms. He later called this his &#8220;Cold Warrior&#8221; phase.</p>
<p>Following the 1964 presidential campaign in which Lyndon Johnson trounced Goldwater, Hess became disillusioned with traditional politics and became more radical. He parted with the Republicans altogether and began working as a heavy-duty welder. He publicly criticized big business, suburban American hypocrisy and the military-industrial complex. Though well beyond college age, Hess joined Students for a Democratic Society, worked with the Black Panther Party and protested the Vietnam War.</p>
<p>During that time, newly elected President Johnson, a Democrat who was apparently displeased with Hess for having been a Republican, ordered the IRS to audit him. When Hess asked if a certain deduction he had claimed was right, his auditor reportedly replied, &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t matter if it&#8217;s right; what matters is the law.&#8221; Incensed that the auditor would see a difference between what was &#8220;right&#8221; and &#8220;law,&#8221; Hess sent the IRS a copy of the Declaration of Independence with a letter saying that he would never again pay taxes. The IRS charged him with tax resistance, confiscated most of his property and put a 100% lien on his future earnings. When implementing the penalty, the IRS told Hess that he no longer would be permitted to possess money; he reminded them that without money he could not buy food and would soon die. The IRS said that was his problem, not theirs. Remarkably, Hess was never incarcerated on this matter, probably due to astute, pro bono legal representation and his status as a folk hero. He was supported financially thereafter by his wife and used barter to keep himself busy. Later, however, he expressed ambivalence about becoming America&#8217;s most notorious tax resister and wrote that his act of civil disobedience could have effected dramatic reforms in tax law had 10 million or more of his fellow Americans joined him in defying the IRS.[3]</p>
<p>In 1968, Richard Nixon was elected president and Barry Goldwater went to Washington as Arizona&#8217;s junior senator. Hess, despite now being a member of the New Left, had recently written some speeches for Goldwater and resumed their close personal relationship; he had grown convinced that American men should not be forced into military service and urged Goldwater to submit legislation abolishing conscription. Goldwater replied, &#8220;Well, let&#8217;s wait and see what Dick Nixon wants to do about that one.&#8221; Hess despised Nixon almost as much as he admired Goldwater and could not tolerate the notion that Goldwater would defer to Nixon. Thus ended one of Hess&#8217;s closest professional associations and significantly compromised one of his deepest friendships.</p>
<p>Hess began reading American anarchists largely due to the recommendations of his friend Murray Rothbard. Hess said that upon reading the works of Emma Goldman he discovered that anarchists believed everything he had hoped the Republican Party would represent, and that Goldman was the source for the best and most essential theories of Ayn Rand without any of the &#8220;crazy solipsism that Rand was so fond of.&#8221;[4]</p>
<p>From 1969 to 1971 Hess edited the The Libertarian Forum with Rothbard.</p>
<p>Hess eventually put his focus on the small scale, on community. He said, “Society is: people together making culture.” He deemed two of his cardinal social principles as being “opposition to central political authority” and “concern for people as individuals.” His rejection of standard American party politics was reflected in a lecture he gave during which he said &#8220;The Democrats or liberals think that everybody is stupid and therefore they need somebody&#8230; to tell them how to behave themselves. The Republicans think everybody is lazy&#8230;&#8221;[5]</p>
<p>In 1969 and 1970, Hess joined with others, including Murray Rothbard, Robert LeFevre, Dana Rohrabacher, Samuel Edward Konkin III, and former Students for a Democratic Society leader Carl Oglesby to speak at two &#8220;left-right&#8221; conferences which brought together activists from both the Old Right and the New Left in what was emerging as a nascent libertarian movement.[6] Hess later joined the Libertarian Party which was founded in 1971, and served as editor of its newspaper from 1986 to 1990.<br />
[edit] Adams-Morgan experiment and back-to-the-land</p>
<p>Hess was an early proponent of the &#8220;back to the land&#8221; movement, and his focus on self-reliance and small communities happened in part by government mandate. According to a Libertarian Party News obituary, &#8220;When the Internal Revenue Service confiscated all his property and put a 100 percent lien on all of his future earnings, Hess (who had taught himself welding) existed on bartering his work for food and goods.&#8221;[7]</p>
<p>With Goldwater’s 1964 defeat, Hess and others on the losing team had found themselves outsiders within the national Republican party due to their support of that controversial politician. Anticipating that making a living as a speechwriter thereafter might prove a challenge, Hess had begun to learn welding. This activity put him in rapport with a very large segment of the American population who are manual laborers. He eventually came to the conviction that virtually no one in national politics identified with these people anymore. When Hess revolted against public giantism – a distrust toward large-corporate business as well as big government – his conviction prompted him to withhold federal income tax payment; legal troubles ensued, but he had welding skills (and the practice of barter) to fall back on. After Hess had made friends within the New Left and related circles, he began to encounter the young, new-breed “appropriate technology” enthusiasts[8] (exemplified, by the late 1960s, in the editors and readerships of the Whole Earth Catalog and Mother Earth News).</p>
<p>In the early 1970s, Hess became involved in an experiment with several friends and colleagues to bring self-built and -managed technology into the direct service of the economic and social life of the poor, largely African American neighborhood of Adams-Morgan in Washington, D.C.. It was the neighborhood in which Hess had spent his childhood. Afterward, Hess wrote a book entitled Community Technology which told the story of this experiment and its results. According to Hess, the residents had a vigorous go at participatory democracy, and the neighborhood seemed for a time like a fertile ground for the growth of community identity and capability.</p>
<p>Much of the technological experimentation Hess and others engaged in there was successful in technical terms (apparatus was built, food raised, solar energy captured, etc.). For instance, Hess wrote: &#8220;In one experiment undertaken by the author and associates, an inner-city basement space, roughly thirty by fifty feet, was sufficient to house plywood tanks in which rainbow trout were produced at a cost of less than a dollar per pound. In a regular production run the total number of fish that can be raised in such a basement area was projected to be five tons per year.&#8221;[9] He taught courses and lectured on Appropriate Technology and Social Change in this period at the Institute for Social Ecology in Vermont. Nonetheless, the Adams-Morgan neighborhood, continuing on what he felt was a path of social deterioration and real-estate gentrification, declined to devote itself to expanding on the technology. Hence, in his view, a needy community got little value from the application of viable technology.</p>
<p>Subsequently, Hess and his wife, Therese, moved to rural Opequon Creek, West Virginia, where he set up a welding shop to support his household. He became deeply involved with local affairs there. Hess built an affordable house that relied largely on passive-solar heating, and took an interest in wind power and all forms of solar energy. By the late 1970s, he saw solar energy as emblematic of decentralization and nuclear energy as emblematic of central organization.[8]</p>
<p>Hess wrote for and later edited a survivalist newsletter titled Personal Survival (&#8220;P.S.&#8221;) Letter, which was published from 1977 to 1982. It was first published and edited by Mel Tappan. Following Tappan&#8217;s death in 1980, Hess took over editing and publishing the newsletter, eventually renaming it Survival Tomorrow. In the same time period, Hess authored the book A Common Sense Strategy for Survivalists.</p>
<p>Hess ran a symbolic campaign for Governor of West Virginia in 1992. When asked by a reporter what his first act would be if elected, he quipped, &#8220;I will demand an immediate recount.&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Eric Dondero</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145696</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Dondero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145696</guid>
		<description>Anarcho-Capitalists are a branch of libertarians.

Left-wing Anarchists are just that, Left-wing Anarchists, out of the Lennin, Emma Goldman,  Noam Chomsky and even Stalin mode, hardly &quot;libertarian&quot; in any manner, shape, or form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anarcho-Capitalists are a branch of libertarians.</p>
<p>Left-wing Anarchists are just that, Left-wing Anarchists, out of the Lennin, Emma Goldman,  Noam Chomsky and even Stalin mode, hardly &#8220;libertarian&#8221; in any manner, shape, or form.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145606</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145606</guid>
		<description>Bob,

There are far more than two &quot;circles of anarchists.&quot;

Socialist and communist anarchists are not &quot;the end product of Soviet socialism.&quot; The big break between anarchists and statist in socialism occurred long before the Russian revolution, when Marx and Bakunin squared off for control of the First International and Marx won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>There are far more than two &#8220;circles of anarchists.&#8221;</p>
<p>Socialist and communist anarchists are not &#8220;the end product of Soviet socialism.&#8221; The big break between anarchists and statist in socialism occurred long before the Russian revolution, when Marx and Bakunin squared off for control of the First International and Marx won.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145605</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145605</guid>
		<description>Due to haste and distraction, I left Roderick Long and Charles Johnson -- and probably others -- off my list of left-libertarians who are far closer to &quot;iconic&quot; than myself. Figured I should correct that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Due to haste and distraction, I left Roderick Long and Charles Johnson &#8212; and probably others &#8212; off my list of left-libertarians who are far closer to &#8220;iconic&#8221; than myself. Figured I should correct that.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Seebeck</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145599</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Seebeck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145599</guid>
		<description>New @7,

good point as well.  Plus alternative therapies like homeopathy, acupuncture, etc. in the same vein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New @7,</p>
<p>good point as well.  Plus alternative therapies like homeopathy, acupuncture, etc. in the same vein.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Milnes</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145594</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Milnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145594</guid>
		<description>Maybe there are 2 circles of anarchists. The ones I was familiar with would be a contingent of a larger group of usually socialists. Often you could see they wore red &amp; black. They considered themselves more advanced than the socialists &amp; communists. Ideologically they were the end product of Soviet socialism. The withering away of the state&gt;anarchism, although the Leninists &amp; Trotskyists often left out anarchism in that equation. &amp; often marginalized them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe there are 2 circles of anarchists. The ones I was familiar with would be a contingent of a larger group of usually socialists. Often you could see they wore red &amp; black. They considered themselves more advanced than the socialists &amp; communists. Ideologically they were the end product of Soviet socialism. The withering away of the state&gt;anarchism, although the Leninists &amp; Trotskyists often left out anarchism in that equation. &amp; often marginalized them.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145593</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145593</guid>
		<description>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Edward_Konkin_III</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Edward_Konkin_III" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Edward_Konkin_III</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Milnes</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145591</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Milnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145591</guid>
		<description>So, maybe dipshit, I mean dondero, is on to something. I confess ignorance. Who is/was SEK3?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, maybe dipshit, I mean dondero, is on to something. I confess ignorance. Who is/was SEK3?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Milnes</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145589</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Milnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145589</guid>
		<description>Tom @10, &quot;A left-wing anarchist IS a libertarian, dipshit.&quot; Well, I could have left the &quot;dipshit&quot; off. Anyway...I tried to explain my experiences in Boulder &amp; Philly circa 1970-85 to you about this. At any/all anarchist gatherings, meetings I ever attended, there was never any mention of libertarians as anarchists. If mentioned it was as rightists &amp; considered part of the right i.e. &quot;the enemy&quot;. When I first found out some libertarians were anarchists, well, I&#039;m sure my jaw must&#039;ve dropped. There is some sort of disconnect. Evidently to you/libertarians anarchists are libertarians. To the leftist anarchists, THEY are the anarchists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom @10, &#8220;A left-wing anarchist IS a libertarian, dipshit.&#8221; Well, I could have left the &#8220;dipshit&#8221; off. Anyway&#8230;I tried to explain my experiences in Boulder &amp; Philly circa 1970-85 to you about this. At any/all anarchist gatherings, meetings I ever attended, there was never any mention of libertarians as anarchists. If mentioned it was as rightists &amp; considered part of the right i.e. &#8220;the enemy&#8221;. When I first found out some libertarians were anarchists, well, I&#8217;m sure my jaw must&#8217;ve dropped. There is some sort of disconnect. Evidently to you/libertarians anarchists are libertarians. To the leftist anarchists, THEY are the anarchists.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145588</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145588</guid>
		<description>Jason,

What &quot;free market&quot; are you talking about? The US healthcare system has also been &quot;a mixture of government-run and private&quot; for more than four decades now, and that stacked on top of an already heavily government-regulated system.

Medical care in the US hasn&#039;t been anything even close to &quot;free market&quot; for more than a century (it was around the turn of the 20th century that the last states fell to the AMA&#039;s demands for guild socialism through licensure).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,</p>
<p>What &#8220;free market&#8221; are you talking about? The US healthcare system has also been &#8220;a mixture of government-run and private&#8221; for more than four decades now, and that stacked on top of an already heavily government-regulated system.</p>
<p>Medical care in the US hasn&#8217;t been anything even close to &#8220;free market&#8221; for more than a century (it was around the turn of the 20th century that the last states fell to the AMA&#8217;s demands for guild socialism through licensure).</p>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145586</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145586</guid>
		<description>Funny, having lived in South Korea, whose healthcare system is a mixture of government-run and private, I never noticed any old people waiting to die.  In fact, every time I went to the doctor, even at busy times, I waited no more than 30 minutes.  Even for more complex procedures than simple visits.  Also funny, when I was in America, when I had insurance (and when I didn&#039;t, which actually includes now), I waited several hours at times for a simple checkup, even when I had an appointment.  Guess the free market is doing its job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, having lived in South Korea, whose healthcare system is a mixture of government-run and private, I never noticed any old people waiting to die.  In fact, every time I went to the doctor, even at busy times, I waited no more than 30 minutes.  Even for more complex procedures than simple visits.  Also funny, when I was in America, when I had insurance (and when I didn&#8217;t, which actually includes now), I waited several hours at times for a simple checkup, even when I had an appointment.  Guess the free market is doing its job!</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145510</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145510</guid>
		<description>Trent,

I meant to write &quot;the &quot;&lt;em&gt;left&lt;/em&gt;-libertarian movement&#039;s foremost living economic theorist&quot; -- but Carson&#039;s place in mutualist economics is roughly equivalent to that of Ludwig von Mises in Austrian economics. Like Mises (&lt;em&gt;Human Action&lt;/em&gt;), he&#039;s the author of the standard work in his field (&lt;em&gt;Studies in Mutualist Political Economy&lt;/em&gt;).

Mutualism is not the only economic school which fits on the &quot;left&quot; side of the libertarian movement (Georgism/geoism, etc., are also there), of course, but neither is Austrianism the only &quot;right&quot; libertarian strain of economic thought (Monetarism, Public Choice, etc.).

Nothing against Block or Salerno, but in Austrian economics they are disciples, not messiahs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trent,</p>
<p>I meant to write &#8220;the &#8220;<em>left</em>-libertarian movement&#8217;s foremost living economic theorist&#8221; &#8212; but Carson&#8217;s place in mutualist economics is roughly equivalent to that of Ludwig von Mises in Austrian economics. Like Mises (<em>Human Action</em>), he&#8217;s the author of the standard work in his field (<em>Studies in Mutualist Political Economy</em>).</p>
<p>Mutualism is not the only economic school which fits on the &#8220;left&#8221; side of the libertarian movement (Georgism/geoism, etc., are also there), of course, but neither is Austrianism the only &#8220;right&#8221; libertarian strain of economic thought (Monetarism, Public Choice, etc.).</p>
<p>Nothing against Block or Salerno, but in Austrian economics they are disciples, not messiahs.</p>
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		<title>By: Trent Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145479</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145479</guid>
		<description>Tom,

I think that&#039;s a stretch. Kevin Carson is not as well-known or -respected as, say, Walter Block or Joe Salerno.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a stretch. Kevin Carson is not as well-known or -respected as, say, Walter Block or Joe Salerno.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145470</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145470</guid>
		<description>Eric,

A legend in your mind, perhaps. Not in mine.

A left-wing anarchist &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; a libertarian, dipshit. Perhaps not the &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; kind of libertarian, but certainly one kind.

There&#039;s no such thing as an &quot;illegal alien,&quot; since the Constitution gives Congress no power to regulate immigration.

Spangler and Conger were the effective re-organizers of the Movement/Alliance of the Libertarian Left after SEK3&#039;s death. Spangler runs the Center for a Stateless Society.

Kevin Carson is probably the libertarian movement&#039;s foremost living economic theorist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>A legend in your mind, perhaps. Not in mine.</p>
<p>A left-wing anarchist <em>is</em> a libertarian, dipshit. Perhaps not the <em>only</em> kind of libertarian, but certainly one kind.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no such thing as an &#8220;illegal alien,&#8221; since the Constitution gives Congress no power to regulate immigration.</p>
<p>Spangler and Conger were the effective re-organizers of the Movement/Alliance of the Libertarian Left after SEK3&#8242;s death. Spangler runs the Center for a Stateless Society.</p>
<p>Kevin Carson is probably the libertarian movement&#8217;s foremost living economic theorist.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Dondero</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145467</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Dondero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145467</guid>
		<description>SEK3 was not a libertarian.  He was a leftwing-Anarchist who liked to hang out with libertarians.  (Not too mention an illegal alien Canadian living in the US.) Spangler, only vaguely aware of him?  The other two never heard of?  

It&#039;s you Tom Knapp, like it or not, who is the figurehead of Left-Libertarians.  You are a true legend in your own mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SEK3 was not a libertarian.  He was a leftwing-Anarchist who liked to hang out with libertarians.  (Not too mention an illegal alien Canadian living in the US.) Spangler, only vaguely aware of him?  The other two never heard of?  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s you Tom Knapp, like it or not, who is the figurehead of Left-Libertarians.  You are a true legend in your own mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145460</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145460</guid>
		<description>Eric,

I&#039;m not much of an &quot;icon&quot; in general. If you&#039;re looking for a left-libertarian &quot;icon,&quot; try the late SEK3, or Brad Spangler, or Kevin Carson, or Wally Conger.

I doubt that Dr. Ruwart and I are anything close to being &quot;carbon copies.&quot; I do admit, though, that there&#039;s quite a bit of overlap between her proposal here and &lt;a href=&quot;http://knappster.blogspot.com/2009/07/reform-get-your-reform-here.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mine&lt;/a&gt; from July.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not much of an &#8220;icon&#8221; in general. If you&#8217;re looking for a left-libertarian &#8220;icon,&#8221; try the late SEK3, or Brad Spangler, or Kevin Carson, or Wally Conger.</p>
<p>I doubt that Dr. Ruwart and I are anything close to being &#8220;carbon copies.&#8221; I do admit, though, that there&#8217;s quite a bit of overlap between her proposal here and <a href="http://knappster.blogspot.com/2009/07/reform-get-your-reform-here.html" rel="nofollow">mine</a> from July.</p>
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		<title>By: NewFederalist</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/libertarian-party-how-liberty-makes-health-care-virtually-universal/comment-page-1/#comment-145444</link>
		<dc:creator>NewFederalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11781#comment-145444</guid>
		<description>... or Chiropractic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; or Chiropractic?</p>
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