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	<title>Comments on: Independent Senator Bernie Sanders denied single payer, promotes clinics</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/</link>
	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 03:17:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145105</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 03:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145105</guid>
		<description>@ California Libertarian Alliance: 

Markets, Not Mandates
December 23rd, 2009

“While congressional reform efforts screech and shudder along, let’s take a moment to dream about real health care reform. Imagine a system that is genuinely transparent, competitive, and driven by consumers.”

“Right now, thanks to incentives built into the tax code, patients are locked into the health plans their employers choose. Consequently, most of us don’t have a clue what our health insurance and health care cost. We have no way to reduce those costs and no incentive to do so even if we could. Worse yet, it’s precisely when you need the system the most that it fails you. In the words of the Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt, “when you’re down on your luck, you’re unemployed, you lose your insurance.…Only the devil could ever have invented such a system.” ”

Ronald Bailey looks at what Real Healthcare Reform would look like @ http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/23/markets-not-mandates</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ California Libertarian Alliance: </p>
<p>Markets, Not Mandates<br />
December 23rd, 2009</p>
<p>“While congressional reform efforts screech and shudder along, let’s take a moment to dream about real health care reform. Imagine a system that is genuinely transparent, competitive, and driven by consumers.”</p>
<p>“Right now, thanks to incentives built into the tax code, patients are locked into the health plans their employers choose. Consequently, most of us don’t have a clue what our health insurance and health care cost. We have no way to reduce those costs and no incentive to do so even if we could. Worse yet, it’s precisely when you need the system the most that it fails you. In the words of the Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt, “when you’re down on your luck, you’re unemployed, you lose your insurance.…Only the devil could ever have invented such a system.” ”</p>
<p>Ronald Bailey looks at what Real Healthcare Reform would look like @ <a href="http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/23/markets-not-mandates" rel="nofollow">http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/23/markets-not-mandates</a></p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145098</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145098</guid>
		<description>I recommend reading the links in that, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend reading the links in that, too.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145095</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145095</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;HMO’s beaurocrats are the death panels.&lt;/i&gt; 

True. 

Posted by Roderick Long at http://praxeology.net/aotp.htm#1:


&lt;blockquote&gt;
Those who see government power and corporate power as being in conflict, and those who seem them as being in cahoots, each have a point. The alliance between government and the corporate elite is like the partnership between church and state in the Middle Ages: each one wants to be the dominant partner, so there&#146;s naturally some pushing and shoving from time to time; but on the other hand the two parties have a common interest in holding down the rest of us, and so the conflict rarely goes too far. The main difference between &#147;left-wing&#148; and &#147;right-wing&#148; versions of statism, as I see it, is that the former generally seek to shift the balance a bit farther in favour of the state (&lt;i&gt;i.e.&lt;/i&gt;, toward state-socialism) while the latter generally seek to shift the balance a bit farther in favour of corporatism and plutocracy. (In the U.S., the reigning versions of liberalism and conservatism are arguably &lt;i&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; more corporatist than state-socialist; but the liberals are still a few notches farther toward state-socialism than the conservatives are.) 
	

But whether the special interests who are the primary beneficiaries of state power are mainly within the state apparatus or mainly outside it, the actual application of state power remains much the same. Hence it is a mistake to suppose that the corporatist-plutocratic version of statism is in any interesting sense &lt;i&gt;less statist&lt;/i&gt; than the state-socialist version. 

But it is an all-too-common mistake &#150; and this tendency to underestimate the chasm between free markets and corporatism is enormously beneficial to the state, enabling a slick bait-and-switch. When free markets and government grants of privilege to business are conflated, those who are attracted to free markets are easily duped into supporting plutocracy, thus swelling the ranks of statism&#146;s right wing &#150; while those who are turned off by plutocracy are likewise easily duped into opposing free markets, thereby swelling the ranks of statism&#146;s left wing. (These are the two tendencies that Kevin Carson calls &#147;vulgar libertarianism&#148; and &#147;vulgar liberalism,&#148; respectively.) 

As one of the villains in &lt;i&gt;The Fountainhead&lt;/i&gt; explains in a moment of frankness, talking about the choice Europe was then facing between communism and fascism: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&#147;If you&#146;re sick of one version, we push you in the other. We&#146;ve fixed the coin. Heads &#150; collectivism. Tails &#150; collectivism. Give up your soul to a council &#150; or give it up to a leader. But give it up, give it up, give it up. Offer poison as food and poison as antidote. Go fancy on the trimmings, but hang on to the main objective. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The largely (though not completely) illusory conflict between state-oriented Palpatine and corporate-oriented Dooku in the &lt;i&gt;Star Wars&lt;/i&gt; prequels is a nice &lt;a href=&quot;http://aaeblog.net/2007/02/06/remembering-corporate-liberalism&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dramatisation of the same principle&lt;/a&gt;.

This dynamic applies in particular to the debate over health care policy. The contrast between, say, the Canadian and American approaches is frequently described &#150; &lt;i&gt;by both sides&lt;/i&gt; &#150; as a contrast between a &#147;governmental&#148; or &#147;socialised&#148; system on the one hand, and a &#147;market-based&#148; or &#147;free enterprise&#148; system on the other. But the American health care system bears little resemblance to a free market; instead it represents massive government intervention on behalf of private special interests, from insurance companies to the medical establishment. The choice between the American and Canadian models is simply a choice between different two different flavours of statism &#150; each with somewhat different vices, it&#146;s true (&lt;i&gt;e.g.&lt;/i&gt;, do you prefer higher prices or longer waits?), but ultimately coming down to a matter of the percentage to which control of your healthcare is exercised by people sitting in government offices as opposed to being exercised by people sitting in governmentally-privileged &#147;private&#148; offices &#150; but in either case by ambitious, avaricious apparatchiks who &lt;i&gt;aren&#146;t you&lt;/i&gt;. 

So what would a libertarian approach to health care policy look like? At a minimum it would have to include: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;
1. Repealing laws that have the effect of cartelising the medical industry (&lt;i&gt;e.g.&lt;/i&gt;, the licensure monopoly granted to the A.M.A.), thus artificially boosting the cost of medical care.

2. Repealing laws that have the effect of rendering the labour market &lt;a href=&quot;http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/522&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;oligopsonistic&lt;/a&gt;, thus artificially lowering people’s ability to pay for (and collectively negotiate for) medical care.
 
3. Repealing laws that shift healthcare funds from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://mises.org/journals/jls/21_2/21_2_1.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;25&#037;-devoured-by-overhead voluntary sector to the 75&#037;-devoured-by-overhead coercive sector&lt;/a&gt;, thus decreasing the amount of healthcare that gets to needy recipients. 

4. Repealing laws that transfer the power to make medical decisions for individuals from those individuals to centralised bodies, thus increasing the impact and scope of fatally bad decisions and suppressing the competitive signals that allow the identification of better and worse policies.

5. Repealing laws that wiped out the old &lt;a href=&quot;http://libertariannation.org/a/f12l3.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mutual-insurance systems&lt;/a&gt; (basically HMOs run by the patients instead of by corporations) and empowered insurance companies at the expense of patients. 

6. Repealing laws that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dklevine.com/papers/imbookfinal09.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;suppress innovation and distribution in the pharmaceutical industry&lt;/a&gt; in the name of &#147;intellectual property.&#148;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Until the unlikely day when the Republican Party embraces this program, let&#146;s hear no more of their favouring a free-market approach to health care.








&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>HMO’s beaurocrats are the death panels.</i> </p>
<p>True. </p>
<p>Posted by Roderick Long at <a href="http://praxeology.net/aotp.htm#1" rel="nofollow">http://praxeology.net/aotp.htm#1</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Those who see government power and corporate power as being in conflict, and those who seem them as being in cahoots, each have a point. The alliance between government and the corporate elite is like the partnership between church and state in the Middle Ages: each one wants to be the dominant partner, so there&#8217;s naturally some pushing and shoving from time to time; but on the other hand the two parties have a common interest in holding down the rest of us, and so the conflict rarely goes too far. The main difference between &#8220;left-wing&#8221; and &#8220;right-wing&#8221; versions of statism, as I see it, is that the former generally seek to shift the balance a bit farther in favour of the state (<i>i.e.</i>, toward state-socialism) while the latter generally seek to shift the balance a bit farther in favour of corporatism and plutocracy. (In the U.S., the reigning versions of liberalism and conservatism are arguably <i>both</i> more corporatist than state-socialist; but the liberals are still a few notches farther toward state-socialism than the conservatives are.) </p>
<p>But whether the special interests who are the primary beneficiaries of state power are mainly within the state apparatus or mainly outside it, the actual application of state power remains much the same. Hence it is a mistake to suppose that the corporatist-plutocratic version of statism is in any interesting sense <i>less statist</i> than the state-socialist version. </p>
<p>But it is an all-too-common mistake &#8211; and this tendency to underestimate the chasm between free markets and corporatism is enormously beneficial to the state, enabling a slick bait-and-switch. When free markets and government grants of privilege to business are conflated, those who are attracted to free markets are easily duped into supporting plutocracy, thus swelling the ranks of statism&#8217;s right wing &#8211; while those who are turned off by plutocracy are likewise easily duped into opposing free markets, thereby swelling the ranks of statism&#8217;s left wing. (These are the two tendencies that Kevin Carson calls &#8220;vulgar libertarianism&#8221; and &#8220;vulgar liberalism,&#8221; respectively.) </p>
<p>As one of the villains in <i>The Fountainhead</i> explains in a moment of frankness, talking about the choice Europe was then facing between communism and fascism: </p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;If you&#8217;re sick of one version, we push you in the other. We&#8217;ve fixed the coin. Heads &#8211; collectivism. Tails &#8211; collectivism. Give up your soul to a council &#8211; or give it up to a leader. But give it up, give it up, give it up. Offer poison as food and poison as antidote. Go fancy on the trimmings, but hang on to the main objective.
</p></blockquote>
<p>The largely (though not completely) illusory conflict between state-oriented Palpatine and corporate-oriented Dooku in the <i>Star Wars</i> prequels is a nice <a href="http://aaeblog.net/2007/02/06/remembering-corporate-liberalism" rel="nofollow">dramatisation of the same principle</a>.</p>
<p>This dynamic applies in particular to the debate over health care policy. The contrast between, say, the Canadian and American approaches is frequently described &#8211; <i>by both sides</i> &#8211; as a contrast between a &#8220;governmental&#8221; or &#8220;socialised&#8221; system on the one hand, and a &#8220;market-based&#8221; or &#8220;free enterprise&#8221; system on the other. But the American health care system bears little resemblance to a free market; instead it represents massive government intervention on behalf of private special interests, from insurance companies to the medical establishment. The choice between the American and Canadian models is simply a choice between different two different flavours of statism &#8211; each with somewhat different vices, it&#8217;s true (<i>e.g.</i>, do you prefer higher prices or longer waits?), but ultimately coming down to a matter of the percentage to which control of your healthcare is exercised by people sitting in government offices as opposed to being exercised by people sitting in governmentally-privileged &#8220;private&#8221; offices &#8211; but in either case by ambitious, avaricious apparatchiks who <i>aren&#8217;t you</i>. </p>
<p>So what would a libertarian approach to health care policy look like? At a minimum it would have to include: </p>
<blockquote><p>
1. Repealing laws that have the effect of cartelising the medical industry (<i>e.g.</i>, the licensure monopoly granted to the A.M.A.), thus artificially boosting the cost of medical care.</p>
<p>2. Repealing laws that have the effect of rendering the labour market <a href="http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/522" rel="nofollow">oligopsonistic</a>, thus artificially lowering people’s ability to pay for (and collectively negotiate for) medical care.</p>
<p>3. Repealing laws that shift healthcare funds from the <a href="http://mises.org/journals/jls/21_2/21_2_1.pdf" rel="nofollow">25&#37;-devoured-by-overhead voluntary sector to the 75&#37;-devoured-by-overhead coercive sector</a>, thus decreasing the amount of healthcare that gets to needy recipients. </p>
<p>4. Repealing laws that transfer the power to make medical decisions for individuals from those individuals to centralised bodies, thus increasing the impact and scope of fatally bad decisions and suppressing the competitive signals that allow the identification of better and worse policies.</p>
<p>5. Repealing laws that wiped out the old <a href="http://libertariannation.org/a/f12l3.html" rel="nofollow">mutual-insurance systems</a> (basically HMOs run by the patients instead of by corporations) and empowered insurance companies at the expense of patients. </p>
<p>6. Repealing laws that <a href="http://www.dklevine.com/papers/imbookfinal09.pdf" rel="nofollow">suppress innovation and distribution in the pharmaceutical industry</a> in the name of &#8220;intellectual property.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>Until the unlikely day when the Republican Party embraces this program, let&#8217;s hear no more of their favouring a free-market approach to health care.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: tiradefaction</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145091</link>
		<dc:creator>tiradefaction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145091</guid>
		<description>Haha, regardless if that was an insult or not, still cute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, regardless if that was an insult or not, still cute.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145090</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145090</guid>
		<description>tired tirade. 

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tired tirade. </p>
<p> <img src='http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: tiradefaction</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145089</link>
		<dc:creator>tiradefaction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145089</guid>
		<description>@19

Tirade, not tired lol!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@19</p>
<p>Tirade, not tired lol!</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145087</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145087</guid>
		<description>Ross, as one of those 47 million, let me assure you that I am not and have never been on a waiting list for any procedure,. 

I just walk into the ER and get care, whether truly emergency or just a prescription. Most of the time the latter. If I had it my way, of course, that would not require a medical visit - drugs should be sold openly without prescriptions. A huge and expensive racket, doubly so because government involvement in medicine has caused a price spiral while the government has simultaneously made it expensive to bring drugs to market and created protectionistic measures to drive their costs up even further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross, as one of those 47 million, let me assure you that I am not and have never been on a waiting list for any procedure,. </p>
<p>I just walk into the ER and get care, whether truly emergency or just a prescription. Most of the time the latter. If I had it my way, of course, that would not require a medical visit &#8211; drugs should be sold openly without prescriptions. A huge and expensive racket, doubly so because government involvement in medicine has caused a price spiral while the government has simultaneously made it expensive to bring drugs to market and created protectionistic measures to drive their costs up even further.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Cavlan RN</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145086</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Cavlan RN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145086</guid>
		<description>Tired and Ross

You both have far too many facts in place.

Facts tend to confuse some people. This Registered Nurse, who knows exactly how corporate healthcare works in the US and understands how the HMO&#039;s beaurocrats are the death panels.

Sarah Palin lovers are, quite frankly morally and politically lost.

Single Payer works. Canadians know it. 

Oh and for the record, SCREW MICHAEL MOORE. He supports Democrats, not Single Payer like he pretends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tired and Ross</p>
<p>You both have far too many facts in place.</p>
<p>Facts tend to confuse some people. This Registered Nurse, who knows exactly how corporate healthcare works in the US and understands how the HMO&#8217;s beaurocrats are the death panels.</p>
<p>Sarah Palin lovers are, quite frankly morally and politically lost.</p>
<p>Single Payer works. Canadians know it. </p>
<p>Oh and for the record, SCREW MICHAEL MOORE. He supports Democrats, not Single Payer like he pretends.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145084</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145084</guid>
		<description>There are about 47 million Americans on a permanent waiting list for most medical procedures (other than possibly the ER if there&#039;s an emergency).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are about 47 million Americans on a permanent waiting list for most medical procedures (other than possibly the ER if there&#8217;s an emergency).</p>
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		<title>By: tiradefaction</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145083</link>
		<dc:creator>tiradefaction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145083</guid>
		<description>The waiting lists in Canada are greatly exaggerated, and vary between provinces. In Canada people with priority concerns go to the front of the line. So yes, you will have to wait for liposuction because a granny fell and broke her hip. Wait times for life and death treatments are about 24 hours (such as heart surgery) in both the US and Canada, but that’s only for those who are covered in the US. For the uncovered, it’s becoming common to die in emergency wait rooms. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/)

Also, most emergencies would take far longer to get to an American hospital, than going to a Canadian hospital. You&#039;d be likely to die waiting on border security. Also, most emergency room visits are driven by the paramedics, who, again, won&#039;t take them across the border.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The waiting lists in Canada are greatly exaggerated, and vary between provinces. In Canada people with priority concerns go to the front of the line. So yes, you will have to wait for liposuction because a granny fell and broke her hip. Wait times for life and death treatments are about 24 hours (such as heart surgery) in both the US and Canada, but that’s only for those who are covered in the US. For the uncovered, it’s becoming common to die in emergency wait rooms. (<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/</a>)</p>
<p>Also, most emergencies would take far longer to get to an American hospital, than going to a Canadian hospital. You&#8217;d be likely to die waiting on border security. Also, most emergency room visits are driven by the paramedics, who, again, won&#8217;t take them across the border.</p>
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		<title>By: The Inquirer</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145014</link>
		<dc:creator>The Inquirer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145014</guid>
		<description>They drive themselves, or have someone drive them if they are unable to drive.  The bill can be safely ignored. I&#039;d rather have a life saving major operation and bad credit than die on a waiting list, wouldn&#039;t you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They drive themselves, or have someone drive them if they are unable to drive.  The bill can be safely ignored. I&#8217;d rather have a life saving major operation and bad credit than die on a waiting list, wouldn&#8217;t you?</p>
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		<title>By: tiradefaction</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145012</link>
		<dc:creator>tiradefaction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145012</guid>
		<description>And costs quite a bit once they send you the bill.

Canadian paramedics don&#039;t send Canadians to American hospitals to an emergency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And costs quite a bit once they send you the bill.</p>
<p>Canadian paramedics don&#8217;t send Canadians to American hospitals to an emergency.</p>
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		<title>By: The Inquirer</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145008</link>
		<dc:creator>The Inquirer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145008</guid>
		<description>Nothing to afford...emergency care is mandatory in the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing to afford&#8230;emergency care is mandatory in the US.</p>
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		<title>By: tiradefaction</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-145007</link>
		<dc:creator>tiradefaction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-145007</guid>
		<description>Very few Canadians use US facilities for anything serious. Most couldn&#039;t afford it. They usually stick with their own system for all necessary health needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very few Canadians use US facilities for anything serious. Most couldn&#8217;t afford it. They usually stick with their own system for all necessary health needs.</p>
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		<title>By: The Inquirer</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-144907</link>
		<dc:creator>The Inquirer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-144907</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a good deal for Canadians. They can drive to the US for anything serious, and stay in Canada for routine care. 90% live within 50 miles of US border.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a good deal for Canadians. They can drive to the US for anything serious, and stay in Canada for routine care. 90% live within 50 miles of US border.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Cavlan RN</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-144852</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Cavlan RN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-144852</guid>
		<description>Steve Linnabary

Actually, this is how Canada got their single payer plan. 

Seskatchawan  province got Single payer. Small buisnesses flocked there and boosted the economy. It then spread to the rest of the country.

Simple historical fact</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Linnabary</p>
<p>Actually, this is how Canada got their single payer plan. </p>
<p>Seskatchawan  province got Single payer. Small buisnesses flocked there and boosted the economy. It then spread to the rest of the country.</p>
<p>Simple historical fact</p>
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		<title>By: tiradefaction</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-144822</link>
		<dc:creator>tiradefaction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-144822</guid>
		<description>If the final bill contains a provision that allows states to enact single payer (or other universal health systems, bismarck or whatever) I&#039;ll be happy. Even if the federal government never enacts single payer or otherwise universal healthcare, states doing it on their own would still be a very good thing. If not, this bill will do little good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the final bill contains a provision that allows states to enact single payer (or other universal health systems, bismarck or whatever) I&#8217;ll be happy. Even if the federal government never enacts single payer or otherwise universal healthcare, states doing it on their own would still be a very good thing. If not, this bill will do little good.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven R Linnabary</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-144775</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven R Linnabary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 05:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-144775</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If states create their own single-payer, then maybe everybody will move to those states and the fed govt will see that this really is what the people want.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s possible, I suppose.  But if history is any guide, the opposite is true.

People and money ALWAYS move toward relative freedom.  You never see people trying to swim to Cuba on an innertube, but people of Cuba will try to come here everyday, toward relative freedom.  And they already know they must evade the Cuban Navy as well as the US Coast Guard.

Not saying it can&#039;t happen.  I just have my doubts.

Pacem en Terris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If states create their own single-payer, then maybe everybody will move to those states and the fed govt will see that this really is what the people want.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible, I suppose.  But if history is any guide, the opposite is true.</p>
<p>People and money ALWAYS move toward relative freedom.  You never see people trying to swim to Cuba on an innertube, but people of Cuba will try to come here everyday, toward relative freedom.  And they already know they must evade the Cuban Navy as well as the US Coast Guard.</p>
<p>Not saying it can&#8217;t happen.  I just have my doubts.</p>
<p>Pacem en Terris</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Cavlan</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-144767</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Cavlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-144767</guid>
		<description>Jason and Ross

You two just nailed precisely why I am so opposed to this Bill.

In the Congressional version, the Stupak Amendment was added, which stops funding for abortions. here is the important part. The Kucinich Amendment, which expressly states that individual states have the RIGHT to organize their own Single Payer Bill was pulled out.

True, we can challenge this on the 10 Amendment but, well that Bill of Rights has taken quite a pounding, hasn&#039;t it?

Not to mention having to fight this before we can even start organizing.

Kucinich knew exactly what he was doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason and Ross</p>
<p>You two just nailed precisely why I am so opposed to this Bill.</p>
<p>In the Congressional version, the Stupak Amendment was added, which stops funding for abortions. here is the important part. The Kucinich Amendment, which expressly states that individual states have the RIGHT to organize their own Single Payer Bill was pulled out.</p>
<p>True, we can challenge this on the 10 Amendment but, well that Bill of Rights has taken quite a pounding, hasn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>Not to mention having to fight this before we can even start organizing.</p>
<p>Kucinich knew exactly what he was doing.</p>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/independent-senator-bernie-sanders-denied-single-payer-promotes-clinics/comment-page-1/#comment-144760</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11692#comment-144760</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ross.  This bill blows for us lefties, but at least let Bernie get into it what he can for us.  If states create their own single-payer, then maybe everybody will move to those states and the fed govt will see that this really is what the people want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ross.  This bill blows for us lefties, but at least let Bernie get into it what he can for us.  If states create their own single-payer, then maybe everybody will move to those states and the fed govt will see that this really is what the people want.</p>
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