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	<title>Comments on: Green Party member’s civil action against Electoral College Mal-Apportionment goes to court 1/14/10</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/</link>
	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-145041</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-145041</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I wonder why mvymvy would show up at a site dedicated to alternative parties and independent candidates to promote a plan that would lessen the chances of alternative parties or independent candidates ever being noticed or having any leverage?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unadulterated chutzpah?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I wonder why mvymvy would show up at a site dedicated to alternative parties and independent candidates to promote a plan that would lessen the chances of alternative parties or independent candidates ever being noticed or having any leverage?</p></blockquote>
<p>Unadulterated chutzpah?</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-145036</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-145036</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;#1 Most other offices are elected by a popular vote alone. Is the Electoral College what makes us into a republic? Ir must not be, as the Constitution guarantees “a republican form of government” to every state, and no state uses a mini-Electoral College to elect its governor. All states use direct popular vote instead.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, but it helps to preserve some vestiges of federalism in the system, leaving some power to the states, especially small states. As a Green you should support decentralism, rather than concentrating as much power as possible at the federal level and above. 

Also, it&#039;s true that without the electoral college (effectively, under NPV) alt-party and independent candidates have less influence. 

The Libertarians took off because one elector voted for them in 1972. Other parties in the past have gotten electoral votes by being regionally based. Under NPV, that is gone. 

On the other hand, with proportional allocation of electoral votes within each state, alt-parties have a greater - not lesser - chance of having a real role; Nader would have gotten electoral votes in 2000, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>#1 Most other offices are elected by a popular vote alone. Is the Electoral College what makes us into a republic? Ir must not be, as the Constitution guarantees “a republican form of government” to every state, and no state uses a mini-Electoral College to elect its governor. All states use direct popular vote instead.</p></blockquote>
<p>No, but it helps to preserve some vestiges of federalism in the system, leaving some power to the states, especially small states. As a Green you should support decentralism, rather than concentrating as much power as possible at the federal level and above. </p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s true that without the electoral college (effectively, under NPV) alt-party and independent candidates have less influence. </p>
<p>The Libertarians took off because one elector voted for them in 1972. Other parties in the past have gotten electoral votes by being regionally based. Under NPV, that is gone. </p>
<p>On the other hand, with proportional allocation of electoral votes within each state, alt-parties have a greater &#8211; not lesser &#8211; chance of having a real role; Nader would have gotten electoral votes in 2000, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: The Inquirer</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144950</link>
		<dc:creator>The Inquirer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144950</guid>
		<description>I wonder why mvymvy would show up at a site dedicated to alternative parties and independent candidates to promote a plan that would lessen the chances of alternative parties or independent candidates ever being noticed or having any leverage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder why mvymvy would show up at a site dedicated to alternative parties and independent candidates to promote a plan that would lessen the chances of alternative parties or independent candidates ever being noticed or having any leverage?</p>
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		<title>By: mvymvy</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144944</link>
		<dc:creator>mvymvy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144944</guid>
		<description>Run-off elections are a dubious solution to the perceived problem. Elections are expensive to administer, and it is already difficult to recruit the required mass of citizen volunteers needed to operate a statewide election. Turn-out in run-off elections is invariably low, as evidenced in the handful of cities (and Georgia) that conduct run-offs, so it is hard to argue that run-offs promote democracy. A run-off election would require candidates to raise additional money on short-notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Run-off elections are a dubious solution to the perceived problem. Elections are expensive to administer, and it is already difficult to recruit the required mass of citizen volunteers needed to operate a statewide election. Turn-out in run-off elections is invariably low, as evidenced in the handful of cities (and Georgia) that conduct run-offs, so it is hard to argue that run-offs promote democracy. A run-off election would require candidates to raise additional money on short-notice.</p>
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		<title>By: mvymvy</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144942</link>
		<dc:creator>mvymvy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144942</guid>
		<description>The process for amending the U.S. Constitution does not reflect the will of the people. A federal constitutional amendment favored by states containing 97% of the people of the U.S. could be blocked by states containing 3% of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The process for amending the U.S. Constitution does not reflect the will of the people. A federal constitutional amendment favored by states containing 97% of the people of the U.S. could be blocked by states containing 3% of the people.</p>
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		<title>By: mvymvy</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144941</link>
		<dc:creator>mvymvy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144941</guid>
		<description>A &quot;republican&quot; form of government means that the voters do not make laws themselves but, instead, delegate the job to periodically elected officials (Congressmen, Senators, and the President). The United States has a &quot;republican&quot; form of government regardless of whether popular votes for presidential electors are tallied at the state-level (as is currently the case in 48 states) or at district-level (as is currently the case in Maine and Nebraska) or at 50-state-level (as under the National Popular Vote bill).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A &#8220;republican&#8221; form of government means that the voters do not make laws themselves but, instead, delegate the job to periodically elected officials (Congressmen, Senators, and the President). The United States has a &#8220;republican&#8221; form of government regardless of whether popular votes for presidential electors are tallied at the state-level (as is currently the case in 48 states) or at district-level (as is currently the case in Maine and Nebraska) or at 50-state-level (as under the National Popular Vote bill).</p>
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		<title>By: mvymvy</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144940</link>
		<dc:creator>mvymvy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144940</guid>
		<description>The Founding Fathers said in the U.S. Constitution: &quot;Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . .&quot; The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as &quot;plenary&quot; and &quot;exclusive.&quot;

Neither of the two most important features of the current system of electing the President (namely, universal suffrage, and the 48 state-by-state winner-take-all rule) are in the U.S. Constitution. Neither was the choice of the Founders when they went back to their states to organize the nation&#039;s first presidential election.  

In 1789, in the nation&#039;s first election, the people had no vote for President in most states, Only men who owned a substantial amount of property could vote.

In 1789 only three states used the state-by-state winner-take-all rule to award electoral votes.

There is no valid argument that the winner-take-all rule is entitled to any special deference based on history or the historical meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution.  The current 48 state-by-state winner-take-all rule (i.e., awarding all of a state&#039;s electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in a particular state) is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, the debates of the Constitutional Convention, or the Federalist Papers.  The actions taken by the Founding Fathers make it clear that they never gave their imprimatur to the winner-take-all rule.  

As a result of changes in state laws enacted since the 1789, the people have the right to vote for presidential electors in 100% of the states, there are no property requirements for voting in any state, and the state-by-state winner-take-all rule is used by 48 of the 50 states. 


The normal process of effecting change in the method of electing the President is specified  in the U.S. Constitution, namely action by the state legislatures. This is how the current system was created, and this is the built-in method that the Constitution provides for making changes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Founding Fathers said in the U.S. Constitution: &#8220;Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . .&#8221; The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as &#8220;plenary&#8221; and &#8220;exclusive.&#8221;</p>
<p>Neither of the two most important features of the current system of electing the President (namely, universal suffrage, and the 48 state-by-state winner-take-all rule) are in the U.S. Constitution. Neither was the choice of the Founders when they went back to their states to organize the nation&#8217;s first presidential election.  </p>
<p>In 1789, in the nation&#8217;s first election, the people had no vote for President in most states, Only men who owned a substantial amount of property could vote.</p>
<p>In 1789 only three states used the state-by-state winner-take-all rule to award electoral votes.</p>
<p>There is no valid argument that the winner-take-all rule is entitled to any special deference based on history or the historical meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution.  The current 48 state-by-state winner-take-all rule (i.e., awarding all of a state&#8217;s electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in a particular state) is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, the debates of the Constitutional Convention, or the Federalist Papers.  The actions taken by the Founding Fathers make it clear that they never gave their imprimatur to the winner-take-all rule.  </p>
<p>As a result of changes in state laws enacted since the 1789, the people have the right to vote for presidential electors in 100% of the states, there are no property requirements for voting in any state, and the state-by-state winner-take-all rule is used by 48 of the 50 states. </p>
<p>The normal process of effecting change in the method of electing the President is specified  in the U.S. Constitution, namely action by the state legislatures. This is how the current system was created, and this is the built-in method that the Constitution provides for making changes.</p>
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		<title>By: mvymvy</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144938</link>
		<dc:creator>mvymvy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144938</guid>
		<description>The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). 

Every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in presidential elections. 

The bill would take effect only when enacted, in identical form, by states possessing a majority of the electoral votes--that is, enough electoral votes to elect a President (270 of 538). When the bill comes into effect, all the electoral votes from those states would be awarded to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). 

The Constitution gives every state the power to allocate its electoral votes for president, as well as to change state law on how those votes are awarded. 

The bill is currently endorsed by over 1,659 state legislators (in 48 states) who have sponsored and/or cast recorded votes in favor of the bill. 

In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state&#039;s electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided). The recent Washington Post, Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University poll shows 72% support for direct nationwide election of the President. This national result is similar to recent polls in closely divided battleground states: Colorado-- 68%, Iowa --75%, Michigan-- 73%, Missouri-- 70%, New Hampshire-- 69%, Nevada-- 72%, New Mexico-- 76%, North Carolina-- 74%, Ohio-- 70%, Pennsylvania -- 78%, Virginia -- 74%, and Wisconsin -- 71%; in smaller states (3 to 5 electoral votes): Delaware --75%, Maine -- 77%, Nebraska -- 74%, New Hampshire --69%, Nevada -- 72%, New Mexico -- 76%, Rhode Island -- 74%, and Vermont -- 75%;  in Southern and border states: Arkansas --80%, Kentucky -- 80%, Mississippi --77%, Missouri -- 70%, North Carolina -- 74%, and Virginia -- 74%; and in other states polled: California -- 70%, Connecticut -- 74% , Massachusetts -- 73%, New York -- 79%, and Washington -- 77%.

The National Popular Vote bill has passed 29 state legislative chambers, in 19 small, medium-small, medium, and large states, including one house in Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, and Oregon,  and both houses in California, Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. The bill has been enacted by Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland, and Washington. These five states possess 61 electoral votes -- 23% of the 270 necessary to bring the law into effect.

See http://www.NationalPopularVote.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). </p>
<p>Every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in presidential elections. </p>
<p>The bill would take effect only when enacted, in identical form, by states possessing a majority of the electoral votes&#8211;that is, enough electoral votes to elect a President (270 of 538). When the bill comes into effect, all the electoral votes from those states would be awarded to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). </p>
<p>The Constitution gives every state the power to allocate its electoral votes for president, as well as to change state law on how those votes are awarded. </p>
<p>The bill is currently endorsed by over 1,659 state legislators (in 48 states) who have sponsored and/or cast recorded votes in favor of the bill. </p>
<p>In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state&#8217;s electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided). The recent Washington Post, Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University poll shows 72% support for direct nationwide election of the President. This national result is similar to recent polls in closely divided battleground states: Colorado&#8211; 68%, Iowa &#8211;75%, Michigan&#8211; 73%, Missouri&#8211; 70%, New Hampshire&#8211; 69%, Nevada&#8211; 72%, New Mexico&#8211; 76%, North Carolina&#8211; 74%, Ohio&#8211; 70%, Pennsylvania &#8212; 78%, Virginia &#8212; 74%, and Wisconsin &#8212; 71%; in smaller states (3 to 5 electoral votes): Delaware &#8211;75%, Maine &#8212; 77%, Nebraska &#8212; 74%, New Hampshire &#8211;69%, Nevada &#8212; 72%, New Mexico &#8212; 76%, Rhode Island &#8212; 74%, and Vermont &#8212; 75%;  in Southern and border states: Arkansas &#8211;80%, Kentucky &#8212; 80%, Mississippi &#8211;77%, Missouri &#8212; 70%, North Carolina &#8212; 74%, and Virginia &#8212; 74%; and in other states polled: California &#8212; 70%, Connecticut &#8212; 74% , Massachusetts &#8212; 73%, New York &#8212; 79%, and Washington &#8212; 77%.</p>
<p>The National Popular Vote bill has passed 29 state legislative chambers, in 19 small, medium-small, medium, and large states, including one house in Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, and Oregon,  and both houses in California, Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. The bill has been enacted by Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland, and Washington. These five states possess 61 electoral votes &#8212; 23% of the 270 necessary to bring the law into effect.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.NationalPopularVote.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.NationalPopularVote.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: VAGreen</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144868</link>
		<dc:creator>VAGreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144868</guid>
		<description>#1  Most other offices are elected by a popular vote alone.  Is the Electoral College what makes us into a republic?  Ir must not be, as the Constitution guarantees &quot;a republican form of government&quot; to every state, and no state uses a mini-Electoral College to elect its governor.  All states use direct popular vote instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#1  Most other offices are elected by a popular vote alone.  Is the Electoral College what makes us into a republic?  Ir must not be, as the Constitution guarantees &#8220;a republican form of government&#8221; to every state, and no state uses a mini-Electoral College to elect its governor.  All states use direct popular vote instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Lake .......... More Paul Harvey Moments</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144698</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Lake .......... More Paul Harvey Moments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144698</guid>
		<description>Progressives believe in PROGRESS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Progressives believe in PROGRESS!</p>
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		<title>By: MN Indy</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/green-party-member%e2%80%99s-civil-action-against-electoral-college-mal-apportionment-goes-to-court-11410/comment-page-1/#comment-144696</link>
		<dc:creator>MN Indy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=11659#comment-144696</guid>
		<description>Presidents were never meant to be elected by popular vote alone, and the Constitution provides for a Republic, not democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presidents were never meant to be elected by popular vote alone, and the Constitution provides for a Republic, not democracy.</p>
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