Some collected articles with various points of view on the recent announcement by former CNN news anchor Lou Dobbs that he may run for President of the United States, separately from the Democratic Party or the Republican Party:
(excerpt from) Politico
…Even independent political operatives less ideologically aligned with Dobbs — Buchanan, like Dobbs, is an immigration hawk — say he represents an enormous opportunity for foes of the two-party system.
“Lou Dobbs, I think, would be a perfect candidate for us,” said former Sen. Dean Barkley, the founder of the Minnesota Reform Party (later known as the Minnesota Independence Party) who managed former Gov. Jesse Ventura’s successful third-party campaign in 1998. “We were hoping he would have run last time.”…
(excerpt from) National Post Posted
Lou Dobbs, who ended a 30 year stint with CNN earlier this month, has confirmed that he may run for president in 2012.
Dobbs let his intentions known Monday on former senator Fred Thompson’s radio show…
…It is expected that Dobbs would run as an independent. In a 2007 interview with Larry King, Dobbs said he has no affiliation to either the Republicans or Democrats:
“I’m, as I say in the book, Larry, I am an unaffiliated, independent. I was — I’ve been a lifelong Republican but I have come to the conclusion after — with mounting evidence seemingly every year for the past six to eight years in particular that there is no difference in these political parties.”…
(excerpt from) Earth Times
…Adam Luna, of the pro-immigration lobby group America’s Voice, said he doubted that Dobbs had enough of a national following to launch a presidential bid.
“When the only thing you offer is lying on television and lose your job as a result, it will be very difficult to gain the trust of hundreds of millions of Americans, including those Latinos you offended for years,” Luna said…
(excerpt from) The Examiner.com
While the thought of Lou Dobbs running for president is gift enough for any political writer, the news got even better when a possible campaign manager immediately stepped forward. Upon hearing the news that Lou was interested in being president, former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan’s sister and campaign manager, Fay Buchanan, said Lou would be “stepping into something where a path had already been laid” by people like her brother (oh, is that what Lou would be stepping in? I’d have picked something else, but again I digress). Fay also said she thinks Lou can win.
127 responses so far ↓
1 paulie // Nov 24, 2009 at 6:49 pm
2 paulie // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:05 pm
3 paulie // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:07 pm
4 paulie // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:08 pm
5 paulie // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:11 pm
6 Thomas L. Knapp // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Personally, I think that a Lou Dobbs presidential campaign could be very good for freedom.
Right now, the Republicans and Democrats continually trip over themselves kowtowing to and appeasing the Know-Nothings, but nothing they do is ever enough.
If Dobbs runs, there are a number of potential up sides:
- Since he’ll have a good shot at the Know-Nothing vote no matter what they do, one or both “major” parties may decide to go the other way and start pushing for immigration freedom. If only one of them does so, that one has a good shot at winning as the other splits the anti-freedom vote with Dobbs.
- If both do so, Dobbs may do well, but at least the anti-immigration-freedom pus will have been partially drained from the “major” parties and that may start a trend in the right direction.
- If neither of them do that — if they both double down and try to compete with Dobbs for the Know-Nothing vote instead — then the anti-freedom vote will be split three ways, creating a potential opening for a pro-freedom party to do well.
7 Vaughn // Nov 24, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Dean, step away from Dobbs. You are losing credibility.
8 Ross Levin // Nov 24, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Did anyone else see him on the Daily Show when they got the mariachi (is that right?) band to play for him? Paulie posted that pic of it – it was hilarious.
9 tiradefaction // Nov 24, 2009 at 8:42 pm
If Lou Dobbs is what brings us a president independent of the Democrats and Republicans, we’re in trouble….
10 Cody Quirk // Nov 24, 2009 at 8:45 pm
http://www.mirafiori.com/~danb/misc/forum-stuff/middle_finger.gif
Right back at ya, Dobbs haters!
11 HumbleTravis // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:04 pm
He might have a better chance running for another office, but celebrity candidates can’t resist the lure of the Executive Branch.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/thornton/thornton46.1.html
12 NewFederalist // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Perhaps Lou Dobbs could be a PLAS experiment!
13 Ross Levin // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Hmm… there’s nothing progressive or libertarian about him…
14 Third Party Revolution // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:22 pm
No, but what party would he run with if he did?
15 Robert Milnes // Nov 25, 2009 at 2:21 am
Tom K. @6, very astute . Agreed. A viable Independent as opposed to Nader, an unviable Independent, could very well take votes mostly from the dems & reps making a 4 way race easier for the PLAS-40%, dem 20%, rep 20%, Independent 20%-TO WIN.
16 Thomas L. Knapp // Nov 25, 2009 at 2:39 am
Cody,
I don’t consider myself a “Dobbs hater,” with respect to either Lou or Bob.
Why is it so hard to accept that I can recognize someone as an anti-American, anti-freedom demagogue without hating him?
17 Trent Hill // Nov 25, 2009 at 3:09 am
Dobbs would likely garner the interest of the New York Independence Party too.
18 citizen1 // Nov 25, 2009 at 5:37 am
I would like to find out more about his position on the issues. All I really know about him is that he is married to a Hispanic women and is anti illegal immigration.
19 Dominik-CT // Nov 25, 2009 at 8:26 am
The libertarian party should recruit Dobbs. Maybe the Libetarians would be able to get 5% in 2012
20 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 am
Tom,
Personally, I think that a Lou Dobbs presidential campaign could be very good for freedom.
The strong Socialist Party campaigns of the early 20th century did not end up being good for freedom. George Wallace’s run led, in major party terms, to Nixon’s “southern strategy” and the strength of dixiecrats-turned-Republican under Reagan, Gingrich, etc. Perot pushed his top issues forward, not backward. “Progressivism” as it was then understood moved forward after TR’s run.
I’m trying to think of a case where a strong alt party or independent presidential run pushed the major parties in the opposite direction from the alt candidate and am coming up empty.
Do you have any such examples in mind?
21 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:23 am
Cody @ 10
22 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:24 am
Dean, step away from Dobbs. You are losing credibility.
+1
23 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:29 am
Did anyone else see him on the Daily Show when they got the mariachi (is that right?) band to play for him? Paulie posted that pic of it – it was hilarious.
And now the video…
24 Robert Capozzi // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:36 am
My reaction to Dobbs for prez is the same as the Bloomberg for prez trial balloon in 08…might be good for the LP. A 3 way MIGHT open things up for a 4 way. Why not?
25 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:41 am
I don’t consider myself a “Dobbs hater,” with respect to either Lou or Bob.
I’d vote for Bob Dobbs. Lou, not so much.
Why is it so hard to accept that I can recognize someone as an anti-American, anti-freedom demagogue without hating him?
Hating him is half the fun.
26 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:45 am
My reaction to Dobbs for prez is the same as the Bloomberg for prez trial balloon in 08…might be good for the LP. A 3 way MIGHT open things up for a 4 way. Why not?
You may be thinking of 1980. But on further thought…
Ross Perot, 1992. Ralph Nader, 2000.
Neither seemed to have any advantages for the LP. So, Clark’s relative strength was probably not related to Anderson’s presence in the race.
On the other hand, the absence of any other significant alternative candidates in the race doesn’t really help the LP lock up the generic disaffected vote, as some have theorized, either. Bergland (and to a lesser extent Ron Paul 88) had a clearer shot at being “the” alternative candidate than other LP presidential contenders before or since, and failed to capitalize.
So, my best guess is that LP presidential tickets rise and fall on their own merits, not so much on who else is in the race.
27 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:48 am
The libertarian party should recruit Dobbs. Maybe the Libetarians would be able to get 5% in 2012
Don’t give them any ideas. I truly believe a significant portion of the party could be persuaded to do something that foolish. Sure, it sounds preposterous now, but then Bob Barr 2008 as a Libertarian presidential candidate would have sounded equally preposterous in 2005.
28 PFK // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:54 am
Fred Thompson has a radio show? Really?
29 Robert Capozzi // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:06 am
pc, second on Bob Dobbs. Church of the Sub-Genius rules!
As for the LP candidates “rising and falling on their own merit,” my contention is that they HAVEN’T risen or fallen historically. They’ve always been less than 1%, which is a footnote.
Barr was the first LP prez candidate (that I recall at least) who has shown up in early polling. We can’t know, of course, but if Bloomberg had gotten in in 08, it might have been a different shooting match.
Mine requires layers of speculation, but IF (Lou) Dobbs was a viable third going against a damaged Obama and, say, Mike Huckabee, that presents an opportunity for the LP. Say we got a candidate like Gary Johnson or Mike Penny, or someone as credible and articulate.
My speculation DOESN’T work if we get another Marrou- or Badnarik-type. (Bless their souls, but they weren’t primetime, IMO.)
30 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:15 am
As for the LP candidates “rising and falling on their own merit,” my contention is that they HAVEN’T risen or fallen historically. They’ve always been less than 1%, which is a footnote.
The relative strength of the campaigns to each other makes difference in terms of morale, which has consequences for party-building, down-ticket races, etc.
Less than 1% can swing many elections, and any alternative party that continues in existence for close to 40 years and runs hundreds (sometimes thousands) of people per election cycle makes some difference and gets noticed.
When I talk to major party politicians, lobbyists, staffers, news professionals – they all know who we are.
31 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:16 am
In other words – it’s a game of inches at the starting line, just as it is at the goal line.
32 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:18 am
Mike Penny,
You got me. Who dat is?
33 Robert Milnes // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:18 am
paulie @27. “Don’t give them any ideas.” Agreed. OMG. I said a Dobbs or centrist Independent would tend to help the LP/GP/PLAS. Not BE the LP/GP/PLAS.
34 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:24 am
Humble Travis @11
Good article.
35 Robert Capozzi // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:26 am
Penny’s a former D congressman from MN who’s been associated with Cato.
I can buy a game of inches for a decade or two, but I’d say morale in the LP has never been especially strong. Our numbers are tiny and remain tiny by all metrics.
But, yes, unlike 1980, the intellectual class now knows L-ism and the LP. The brand has been somewhat built up. Time to roll the product out, I’d say. 3.5 decades of R&D has been enough, IMO.
36 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:29 am
Penny’s a former D congressman from MN who’s been associated with Cato.
Ah. I think you meant Tim Penny. I thought that may have been the case but wasn’t sure.
37 Robert Capozzi // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:39 am
yes, I stand corrected.
38 Nate // Nov 25, 2009 at 11:36 am
“All I really know about him is that he is married to a Hispanic women [...]”
So, is he a mormon or just generally polygamous? (Nitpicking typos, how original.
)
39 Scott West // Nov 25, 2009 at 11:50 am
@29
I think Mark Sanford’s dance card is cleared through 2012. He can campaign full time from now till then, taking advantage of his heightened national profile.
40 Robert Capozzi // Nov 25, 2009 at 12:15 pm
sw, LOL. I see you’re a Green. So, YOU guys can run Elliot Spitzer!!! In Sanford’s defense, at least his affair wasn’t a transaction….not that there’s anything wrong with that!
41 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 12:23 pm
@27 “Sure, it sounds preposterous now, but then Bob Barr 2008 as a Libertarian presidential candidate would have sounded equally preposterous in 2005.”
Maybe if Lou Dobbs would recant his previous unlibertarian positions, serve a couple of years on a body promoting the LP, and again recant his earlier positions and explicitly articulate the new positions to the caucuses, interests, and delegates in convention, maybe he would have a shot at the nomination just as Barr did.
42 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I suppose the same could be said for J. R. “Bob” Dobbs.
43 Andy // Nov 25, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Dobbs is probably better than Obama and whatever turd of a candidate that the Republican Party will almost certainly squeeze out in 2012.
Having said this, I’m leaning towards hoping that he does not run for President in 2012. I doubt that Dobbs really “gets it” on enough of the issues.
My fear about Dobbs is that with his celebrity status he’d get a lot of support while at the same time leading people in a lot of directions, too many of which will probably be wrong, much like Ross Perot and Ralph Nader.
I’d prefer to see Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, or Jesse Ventura (I’d like to see Jesse get more solid on issues but he’s appears to have moved further in a direction that I like).
Unfortunately the Libertarian Party does not have any good candidates running at this time. Hopefully somebody good will step up and will run a real campaign.
I can see two things happening to the Libertarian Party if Dobbs runs:
1) The Libertarian Party nominates a weak candidate who gets lost in the shuffle.
or…
2) The Libertarian Party nominates a good or decent candidate who gets lost in the shuffle.
For once, I’d like to see a good Libertarian Party candidate who is a solid Libertarian who really knows the issues and who is good at marketing libertarianism to ALL groups and who can raise a lot of money. If we can’t get a celebrity or a very wealthy Libertarian to run, then we need somebody who can at least work really hard and position themselves to tap into the 10s of millions of dollars that went into the Ron Paul R3VOLution and Campaign for Liberty (the majority of these people are open to the Libertarian Party and many of them would have helped in 2008 if the Libertarian Party had a better Presidential candidate than Bob Barr).
44 Andy // Nov 25, 2009 at 12:46 pm
I’m open to seeing what all Dobbs has to say if he does decide to run, I’m just skeptical of him.
45 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 1:25 pm
@41. OK, sorry, can’t resist. The following is merely a work of speculative fiction; any perceived barbs at the Bob Barr campaign are merely light hearted and humorous, and not in any way mean spirited or negative.
December, 2010 Lou Dobbs is recruited to fill a vacancy on the LNC. When asked about whether he has any interest in a presidential race, his answer for over a year after this is “absolutely not.”
June, 2011 Lou Dobbs publishes an article calling for a roundup of undocumented persons of Mexican and Central American origin. He cautions against deportation, pointing out that they’ll just sneak across the border again. Instead, he proposes that they be put to work as slaves to build a mile-deep ditch along the entire length of the Mexican border. When the ditch is completed, they will be thrown into it.
April, 2012 At the Heartland Libertarian conference, Lou Dobbs announces that he may, after all, seek the Libertarian nomination for president, but he is not ready to decide yet. At the press conference, I ask him whether he will be able to unite those people who admire him as an anti-immigration activist with those who like him for being a changed man. He says that he believes he can, and that the two groups agree on many other issues, which are, after all, more important.
An official announcement of candidacy is held off until two weeks before the nomination, and Dobbs skips all debates except for the televised debate where all questions are pre-screened and known in advance.
May, 2012 Pat Buchanan buys IPR and is booked as the keynote speaker at the LP National convention. My press credentials, along with Tom Knapp’s, are pulled. Articles and comments have to be cleared before appearing; the restrictions are lifted after the convention.
Lou Dobbs wins on the sixth and final ballot, edging out Steve Kubby in part thanks to an endorsement by his new VP candidate, Offer Shlomi AKA Vince Offer.
The LPHQ staff turns LP.org into a virtual gateway site for Dobbs2012.com, and some of the staff are actually relocated to Dobbs’ 300 acre horse farm in New Jersey. Their living quarters, along with the campaign HQ, are located in an unfurnished barn on the property, and LP staff are unofficially employed after hours in cleaning up after the horses at no extra pay, and sleep on bales of hay.
Sptember, 2012 At a joint press conference called by Ron Paul and Jesse Ventura, Dobbs promises to appear alongside the Green and Constitution Party candidates and Ralph Nader, but skips at the last minute in favor of his own separate press conference afterwards, explaining that the Greens are running Matt Gonzalez, and he would “never appear on stage with those kinds of people.” His deputy campaign manager is overheard telling Paul and Ventura staffers and family members to “go fuck yourselves.”
October, 2012 David Duke is assassinated in Vienna by the son of a holocaust survivor. Lou Dobbs issues a glowing eulogy, describing Duke as an unsung American hero.
Dobbs2012.com starts using the word “Libertarian” on its front page.
November, 2012 Dobbs-Shlomi get 575,000 votes, 0.4% of the total votes cast in the presidential race.
December, 2012 It is revealed that the Dobbs-Shlomi campaign is $500,000 in debt, and will not share its list with LPHQ until all debts are settled. Vince Shlomi denies any involvement, revealing that the Dobbs campaign kept him completely out of the loop on all decisionmaking and steered him away from the media.
——–
The foregoing parody is not meant to be offensive.
46 libertariangirl // Nov 25, 2009 at 1:51 pm
ROFLMAO!! good one!
47 Robert Capozzi // Nov 25, 2009 at 2:08 pm
pc, that IS amusing. But can you do one for the Blanton/Davidson ticket? Something involving Guy Fawkes costumes and rebar? Rather than run a campaign, the dynamic duo decide to take jackhammers to Mt Rushmore while reciting Triple-H passages on the relative benefits of monarchism.
48 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 2:18 pm
I’ll work on that. Using the tracks at
http://www.myspace.com/letuslivemusic
for inspiration…
49 Robert Milnes // Nov 25, 2009 at 2:55 pm
paulie @45, LOL. Now THAT’s funny!
50 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:22 pm
@45 Is Vince “Offer” Schlomi eligible to serve as President? If not, your scenario seems incredibly farfetched and unrealistic.
51 NewFederalist // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:26 pm
If Vince isn’t eligible perhaps Billy Mays… oh, wait… Anthony is a Brit so… well, geez maybe it is far fetched!
52 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Ron Popeil was born in the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Popeil
53 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:34 pm
So was Billy Mays
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mays
54 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:35 pm
After having seen the clip with Jon Stewart, it appears that Jon Stewart would make a much, much better Presidential candidate than Lou Dobbs.
55 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Finally, Orrin Hatch is working on a constitutional amendment to get rid of the whole pesky “US born” thing, supposedly so that Schwarzenegger can run. So Offer Shlomo may be in after all.
56 Steve LaBianca // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:37 pm
The only value that Lou Dobbs would present for the LP, or I should say, for libertarians in general, is that at least W.A.R. would easily be bumped from his neo-con perch as the self-described front runner for the LP nomination. Even though Dobbs’ beliefs are nearly as bad as W.A.R.’s, at least he has a decent demeanor. W.A.R. OTOH, is the most grating “personality” to ever appear on the national political scene.
57 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:37 pm
@53 Isn’t Billy Mays dead? I suppose that would not make him ineligible to run, though…
58 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Picky, picky. Popeil is alive AFAIK.
59 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Does Lou Dobbs have anything against AFAIKs?
60 Steve LaBianca // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:42 pm
My sources tell me that AFAIK isn’t supporting W.A.R.
61 Kimberly Wilder // Nov 25, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Harumph. Can’t find the archive. But, on WBAI/Pacifica Radio today, on the show “CCCP: The Monthly Laughing Nightmare”, they did some jokes and a song about Lou Dobbs. http://www.wbai.org
62 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Kimberly – http://archive.wbai.org/ top show?
63 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Shared Timeslot Wednesday 2PM to 3PM
Wednesday November 25, 2009 2:00pm
Reel World,Freq Kenneth?,CCCP, Haskins 13 Play
64 libertariangirl // Nov 25, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Wayne doesnt grate on my nerves. I find him to always be pleasant , upbeat and interesting.
65 Russki Belushsski // Nov 25, 2009 at 5:48 pm
@47
May, 2010 Radicals win a decisive victory in St. Louis.
At the post-convention LNC meeting, it is decided that all ballot access for 2012 will be handled by Sean Haugh, Scott Kohlhaas and Christina Tobin.
June, 2010 After a series of extremist statements by new LNC chair Angela Keaton, Wayne Root and many others withdraw from the Libertarian Party.
May, 2012 The LPnational convention is held in Richmond, Virginia (the capital of the Confederacy). 145 people are in attendance. Tom Blanton wanders in by mistake. He didn’t know the LP was meeting there, he was actually looking to crash a wedding in one of the hotel’s other meeting rooms. Somebody gets him drunk and stoned and he somehow agrees to run for president as a joke.
Blanton beats Tom Knapp for president on the first ballot with 78 votes, 62 for Knapp, 4 for Joy Waymire and one for Robert Milnes.
Jim Davidson, recently released from a Panamanian mental hospital prison ward, rounds out the ticket. In a joint statement from the podium, the presidential and VP nominees declare “we are not going to vote for ourselves or anyone, and neither should anyone else.”
June, 2012 They put up the campaign website. It’s a wordpress blog.
The last remaining LP assets are confiscated to pay off unpaid judgements awarded to creditors.
July, 2012 Blanton can’t be reached for over a month. The LNC holds an emergency meeting and appoints Davidson as the presidential candidate.
Davidson holds a press conference on the white house lawn in a Guy Fawkes mask and is put in the DC jail when he refuses to take it off on the orders of the Secret Service and MPD.
October, 2012 Davidson makes bail and travels to South Dakota. He is arrested by park rangers while beating the statues of Mt. Rushmore with a piece of rebar as he reads aloud from Hans H. Hoppe’s Democracy: The God That Failed.
November, 2012 The Blanton-Davidson ticket, on the ballot in 27 states, gets 182,000 votes, 0.13% of the total votes cast.
December, 2012 The LNC votes unanimously to dissolve the party.
66 Steve LaBianca // Nov 25, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Regardless of the mental stability of either Tom Blanton or Jim Davidson, 182,000 REAL libertarian voters would be an improvement on the 500,000 conservatives casting a protest vote against McCain, by voting for TRUE conservatives Barr/W.A.R.
67 Steve LaBianca // Nov 25, 2009 at 6:14 pm
I’m from New York, and I STILL find the guy enormously distasteful . . . damn, that voice, and
more importantly, the swill that spills out of it makes me gag, not to say it shames me to be classified as ideologically similar to this neo-con.
Some think W.A.R. is just exuberant . . . I see him as a motormouth who has no idea what he is saying.
68 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Wayne Allyn Root has been getting better with his appearances, even the message is getting better over time. It is not as paleoconservative as it once was. He can spout soundbites with the best of them now, and that is much of what it is to make appearances on “news” programs anymore.
69 Steven R Linnabary // Nov 25, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Finally, Orrin Hatch is working on a constitutional amendment to get rid of the whole pesky “US born” thing, supposedly so that Schwarzenegger can run. So Offer Shlomo may be in after all.
Or Jerry Springer.
PEACE
70 Steven R Linnabary // Nov 25, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Blanton beats Tom Knapp for president on the first ballot with 78 votes, 62 for Knapp, 4 for Joy Waymire and one for Robert Milnes.
That would suppose that Milnes actually made it to the convention, which will not happen unless somebody gives him a motorhome. Sounds pretty far fetched to me!!
PEACE
71 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 7:26 pm
The vote for Milnes might be cast by Solomon Drek.
72 Carolyn Marbry // Nov 25, 2009 at 7:32 pm
“The libertarian party should recruit Dobbs. Maybe the Libetarians would be able to get 5% in 2012.”
No, please, let’s not try that celebrity recruiting for presidential candidates thing again. In ‘08, that was disastrous. At least if we’re going to run celebrities, let’s run Libertarian celebrities like Doug Stanhope or Penn Jillette. But grabbing whatever falls off the hay wagon like we did in ‘08 will be a mistake…
73 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 8:02 pm
I don’t think ‘08 was “grabbing anything that falls off the hay wagon”, nor do I see how one of the more successful, in terms of exposure and attracting voters, LP Presidential campaigns can be characterized as disastrous.
Just because the reaction of some people to the nomination and campaign was appalling does not mean it was a bad campaign. Sure, there were things that could have been done better, but I’m not sure of the criteria for calling it disastrous.
74 paulie // Nov 25, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Russki Belushki
touche’
75 Thomas L. Knapp // Nov 25, 2009 at 9:01 pm
“Blanton beats Tom Knapp for president on the first ballot with 78 votes, 62 for Knapp, 4 for Joy Waymire and one for Robert Milnes.”
If Tom Blanton was running, Tom Knapp probably wouldn’t be.
“nor do I see how one of the more successful, in terms of exposure and attracting voters, LP Presidential campaigns can be characterized as disastrous.”
I guess it depends on how you define “more successful.” Of ten LP presidential campaigns featuring nine candidates, Barr came in 4th for “attracting voters.” He probably didn’t manage as much media exposure as Ed Clark, and possibly not as much as Robert MacBride. And to the extent that he did attract voters and get exposure, he did so by mal-positioning the Libertarian Party as the party of Strom Thurmond and George Wallace, something that’s probably going to hurt us for some time to come.
76 Andy // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:25 pm
“libertariangirl // Nov 25, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Wayne doesnt grate on my nerves. I find him to always be pleasant , upbeat and interesting.”
I’ve got no problem with Wayne’s personality. I do have a few issue problems with him and I also don’t like the fact that the overwellming majority of his outreach is aimed at Republicans at the expense of the rest of the political spectrum.
77 Mik Robertson // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:56 pm
“Of ten LP presidential campaigns featuring nine candidates, Barr came in 4th for “attracting voters.” ”
Or second. It depends on if you count total votes or percentage. Either way it is in the top half, hardly a disaster.
“He probably didn’t manage as much media exposure as Ed Clark, and possibly not as much as Robert MacBride.”
Possibly, probably. Anyway he counts in the top three at least by your reckoning, again hardly a disaster.
“And to the extent that he did attract voters and get exposure, he did so by mal-positioning the Libertarian Party as the party of Strom Thurmond and George Wallace, something that’s probably going to hurt us for some time to come.”
Have you had voters tell you they voted for Bob Barr because he held the positions of Strom Thurmond or George Wallace? I think this is more of a projection of your impression of Bob Barr rather than an objective assessment of his campaign.
I can’t see the Barr campaign as having any more or less of an impact on the LP than any of the previous presidential campaigns. A Lou Dobbs campaign, if he were to become a Libertarian, would probably have just about as much impact on the LP overall as previous campaigns. I think a Jon Stewart campaign would have more of an impact.
78 Thomas L. Knapp // Nov 26, 2009 at 2:28 am
Mik,
You write:
“‘Of ten LP presidential campaigns featuring nine candidates, Barr came in 4th for ‘attracting voters.’
“Or second. It depends on if you count total votes or percentage. ”
Candidate X got two votes out of three.
Candidate Y got three votes out of 10.
Which one did better?
Vote percentage is the only reasonable way to measure such things.
“I think this is more of a projection of your impression of Bob Barr rather than an objective assessment of his campaign.”
Actually, it was someone a lot more prominent than me (Robert Stacy McCain of The American Spectator) who linked Barr’s name to that of Wallace — and attempted to spin that linkage as positive.
Now you’ve backed off to the Barr campaign “not being a disaster.” A minute ago it was “one of the more successful” campaigns.
My assessment of the campaign is that by the numbers, it was middle of the pack, and that by impact it was, if not a disaster, at least not a positive outcome. Your mileage obviously varies.
79 Robert Capozzi // Nov 26, 2009 at 7:42 am
russki 65, brilliant!
Interestingly, Miss Waymire sports a pipe that appears to be VERY similar to JR Bob Dobbs’s. Coincidence? I think not!
80 Robert Capozzi // Nov 26, 2009 at 8:50 am
oh, yes, russki…a discontinuity in your scenario…Blanton is dropped from the ticket. So, how’s this: Davidson gets a series of favorite-son Veeps, although the paperwork isn’t filed in all 27 states. Some state ballots read Blanton/Davidson; others Davidson/favorite son; a few read Davidson/Milnes as a test of PLAS.
Obama is re-elected, despite a disastrous downturn in the economy, worse than 08-09. The GOP runs Huckabee/Bachmann, as both take to speaking in tongues on the hustings throughout October as a desperation move. Bachmann spends September confusing Lichtenstein for Lithuania; Osama for Obama; and Cesar for Hugo Chavez.
Dobbs withdraws his independent candidacy after taunting the press to investigate numerous reported skeletons in his closet, all of which are proven largely true.
81 Robert Capozzi // Nov 26, 2009 at 9:11 am
cm 72, let’s get more creative…if our ticket were Jillette/Maher, we’d be conducting a PLAS experiment, too. Nice balance!
82 paulie // Nov 26, 2009 at 9:59 am
@79 I believe it’s actually an Ayn Rand style cigarette holder. I think Waymire styles herself after Rand.
83 Robert Capozzi // Nov 26, 2009 at 10:06 am
pc, check her Facebook pic. Sure looks like a pipe to me…
84 Russki Belushsski // Nov 26, 2009 at 11:49 am
Using the tracks at
http://www.myspace.com/letuslivemusic
I like those too. But I found these other ones linked from there that I like even better:
http://www.myspace.com/phinelia
85 paulie // Nov 26, 2009 at 11:56 am
bc,
Computer is working too slow for that…I’m going by what I remember from seeing her in person several times.
It’s not just the cigarette holder.
Her whole dress and demeanor reminds me of Justin Raimondo’s description of Rand’s inner circle…
86 George Phillies // Nov 26, 2009 at 12:02 pm
@78
Tom,
You miss the most important feature in which the Barr campaign was number 1 for libertarians, despite several strong historical competitors, namely that it appears to have been a fundraising scam that incidentally gave its lead candidate limo service on regular basis rather than a legitimate political campaign. In particular, in my opinion:
I’ll keep the summary very short.
The Barr 2008 campaign was in its operation a scam for transferring money from Libertarian donors to Barr’s Republican cronies and a few libertarian hangers-on.
The Barr 2008 Campaign raised nearly one and a half million dollars.
It spent barely 4% of its income on anything that resembles classical public outreach. That includes $12,618.88 to book publisher.
It spent under 1% of its income on actual press advertising, counting google.com.
That’s a tenth what it spent on rent of real estate and office furniture.
That’s a tenth what it spent (or still owes) on a web page.
That’s considerably less than it spent on limousines and town cars.
That’s what the campaign our party’s establishment gave us.
Barr — Campaign or Not
Bob Barr may have promised a Presidential campaign, but the delivery was a bit different. Here is the record of his spending, based on our reanalysis of the Barr 2008 FEC campaign reports. Some minor expenditures have been left out.
The campaign spent $1.4 million, more or less every penny that it raised. The issue is where Barr 2008 spent its money, including $160,000 that the campaign owed at the end of the year, not to mention money owed American Express.
In short: One per cent of campaign spending went for advertising the candidate to the general public via Newsmax, Google, and newspaper ads. Three more percent went to activities such as a campaign book that could have helped spread the word. Around $100,000 went to the web site. A hundred grand went for renting real estate, with over thirty grand additional to rent and buy furniture and office equipment. Direct mail demanded a seventh of funds raised…about $200K. A third of a million dollars — a quarter of funds raised — went to pay people, not counting the hundred grand paid to consultants and the like. . Direct mail demanded a seventh of funds raised…about $200K.
Some people eccentrically think that campaigns are about advertising, so here is everything that might be called general advertising and so reported. Add it up: one percent of the campaign’s money went for broad-market advertising, and another three percent was for advertising of some sort:
Advertising
Signs by Tomorrow Signs $17,337.9
Bumpersticker.com (bumper stickers, promotional items) $9983.75
NewsMax Advertising $6250
Commercial Signs $2993.92
Dr Don’s Buttons (buttons and items) $1261.67
Zazzle.com T-Shirts $1194.55
Charleston Gazette $1000.92
Google, Inc. (Advertising) $796.99
B&P Promotions Advertising $657
Equipity.com (Book Publishing) $12,618.88
That’s being very generous to count it as 4%, because I am including over 12 grand to a book publisher for the Barr boom, 10 grand for bumper stickers (which are widely understood to be primarily effective at inciting the faithful), and an amount for lawn signs that were in fair part sold to supporters. Honest-to-goodness orthodox advertising including Google adwords and Newsmax (a far far right internet news outlet) were 1% of the campaign budget.
Just for purposes of comparison, even the Boston Tea Party presidential campaign spent $327.83 to advertise on Google. As you might guess, this constituted a much larger percentage of their campaign budget.
A third of a million dollars — a quarter of funds raised — went to pay people. That does not include various debts to people, starting with $47,000 owed to James Bovard for making, it is widely rumored, significant contributions to the invisible Barr books. Here are the people
People
Liberty Strategies Contract Services $62,500 (Bob Barr’s firm)
Doug Bandow $52,644.11
Shane Cory $42,000
James Bovard (Authoring Fee) $30,000
Robert Stuber Fundraising consultant $24,000
Steve Sinton Field Consulting $20,000
Andrew MacPherson $16,074.28
Russ Verney Political Consulting $14,387.56
Mike Ferguson Field Consulting $13,812.03
Stephen Gordon Field Consulting $12,857.97
Ashley Petty (field consulting) $11,474.5
Angelia O’Dell (ballot access) $9244.5
Jake Witmer Ballot Access $3846.96
Robert Zinzell Political Consulting $3750
David Beiler (Field Consulting) $2399.11
John Seewoester Field Consulting $2125.5
Barry Fiegel (field consulting) $1875
Karen Neal Ballot Access $1828
Jason Pye (Field Consulting) $1664.22
Rob Armstrong Field Consulting $1536
Joseph Carter Field Consulting $1436
Robert Jackson In-kind:Travel Expenses $1190.46
William Greene Creative Fees $1000
Nena Bartlett Field Consulting $678
Jeff Becker Ballot Access $514.75
Hudson Phillips Graphic Design $450
Stephen Thomas Field Consulting $393
Dianna Dickerson (Field Consulting) $358
Bob Bastress (ballot access) $350
Billy Bryant (Field Consulting) $343.5
Robert Benedict Political Consulting 312.84
Stephanie Stevens Field Consulting 298.5
Cheryl Wesley (Field Consulting) $240
Todd Wentz Field Consulting $215
There were also people hired via consulting houses, another $109,000 or so of them:
Consulting firms
Advocacy Ink…$46841.01(media consulting and public relations)
Promotions Direct advertising and promotional items
$13093.1
Olympic Consulting Ballot Access and political
consulting $13,000
National Ballot Access Ballot Access $12818
Professional Data Services Compliance Consulting $8803.34
PrimeOne Political Consulting $7999.98
Pulse Opinion Research LLC Polling $4750
Blue Aster Media (Field Consulting) $991.46
Imaging Arts Charleston (photography) $673.81
Small Government Solutions Direct Marketing $400
Winning Edge International Telemarketing $240 (this appears to be Wayne Root’s telemarketing house)
The Barr campaign spent almost twice as much on office rent — over $100,000 — as on general advertising, and that does not include office furniture:
Real Estate Rent
The Paces Foundation, Inc Rent and Utilities $55,769.4
Post Corporate Apartments $33302.29
Lisa Franzman $13757.23
Mansour Center $6819
Electric, INC Building Repairs $2175
Office furniture? Now we come to office furniture and supplies. There’s also some office equipment hiding on the electronics entries, at which point the office furniture spending nearly matched the spending on advertising.
Office Furniture
Aaron Rents…$32220.7, of which $3392.27
has been refunded, plus $835.28 for “furniture”.
Office Equipment 6766.73
Office Supplies $8272.14.
Targeted outreach was done via electronic and direct mail efforts. The electronic efforts included over $130,000 in spending (in addition, Terra Eclipse is owed another thirty-five thousand and change), including
Electronics
Terra Eclipse IT and Transaction Fees $68,644.86
Thru Tech IT and office equipment $36,486.31
Campaigner Pro (software) $14,242.74
RackSpace IT $6370.49
Cbeyond Communications (telephone) $4091.06
AT&T Mobility (cell, telephone) $2698.15
Salesforce Software $2,655
Charter (cable/internet) $2236.55
Verizon Cell Phone $546.86
Dell Computers Computer Monitor 240.44
Comcast (cable/internet) $46.26
Direct mail is a fundraising tool; it also serves to frame issues. Mailing and shipping also puts your materials in front of people. Here is the mailing effort, nearly $200,000 of it:
Mailing and items:
Gillis Express (Mailing Direct Marketing) $39723.14
All Points Packaging $35649.69
Press Well Services Direct Marketing $26220.18
MDI Imaging & Mail Direct Marketing $16130.75
USPS Postage $15,166.21
List Services Corp. Direct Marketing $13,757.23
Schlesman Enterprises Direct Marketing $12,857.71
Integram (Direct Marketing) $12,513.35
Positive Press Direct Marketing, Printing $12,028.37
UPS Shipping $7492.6 with a $288.25 refund
FedEx (shipping) 5349.13
Direct Mail Processors (Direct Marketing) $2503.42
Sir Speedy Printing Centers Printing $1492.93
Milner, Inc printing $1100
Daily Printing & Graphics $795.5
NextDay Flyers Printing $717.26
C & E Printing $442.4
Small Government Solutions Direct Marketing $400
Those mailings were went to mailing lists. Here are the places from which lists were rented:
Basic Media, Inc. $2000 <– Ron Paul right wing list
Deiner Consultants $2400 <–conservative Christian mailing lists; apparently advises the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (say internet searches)
Capitol Hill Lists $838.32 <–conservative political mailers, says their web site
C&P Lists $235 <almost no info available on this Asheville, N.C. operation) The candidate went to Denver to receive the nomination. Denver Convention Booth/registrations $2761
More than $40,000 was spent on legal services, including:
McKenna Long & Aldridge $16,931 (and $38,000 owed)
Orrin Grover $6000
State Ballot Access Fees $5750
James Linger $5350
Drew Shirley $5015.31
Samuel Stretton $3200
Matthew Sawyer $2262.5
Varallo Incorporated Court Transcripts $977.83
Robert Karwin $350
It costs money to collect money. $34,000, under 3% of funds received, spent on various types of transaction expenses:
Transaction Fees
PayPal $29,147.33
Visa/MC Merchant Account 3999.18
American Express: $482.76
Donor Town Square $425
CentraBank $308.31
Georgian Bank $286.75
Finally, you can send the candidate out on the hustings, where he can give speeches, excite the faithful, and support local candidates. Travel money and events came to a quarter of a million dollars, close to five times what was spent on advertising.
Oh, yes, a funny thing happened on the way to the FEC. In earlier reports, payments to limousine companies are categorized as “limo services”, but in later reports, they are equally legitimately categorized as ‘travel expenses’.
Travel Expenses $206,583
Limo Services $38,106.82 <– we sorted out the limo and town car companies
Events $15,738.48
Meeting Expenses $10,855.41
Thrifty Rental Car $1097.73
Citizen Outreach (conservative event) $2500
Freedom Festival (conservative event) $1250
The above list of numbers do not include the following campaign debts as seen in FEC filings at campaign’s end.
James Bovard $47,000.00 Authoring Fee
McKenna Long & Aldridge $38,414.69 Legal Fees
Terra Eclipse $35,566.87 IT
Russ Verney $15,000.00 Political Consulting
Doug Bandow $6,466.05 Political Consulting
Dr. Robert B. Stuber $4,000.00 Fundraising Consulting
Mr. Steve Sinton $4,000.00 Political Consulting
Wayne Allen Root $3,297.81 Campaign Expenses
Campaigner Pro $2,675.00 Software
All Points Packaging & Distribution, In $1,149.42 Online Order Fulfillment
Press Well Services, Inc. $878.06 Printing
Lisa Franzman $802.77 Rent
87 Russki Belushsski // Nov 26, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I checked facebook. It’s definitely a pipe. But I don’t think that’s tobacco she’s smoking, lol
88 Mik Robertson // Nov 26, 2009 at 11:29 pm
@78 “Now you’ve backed off to the Barr campaign “not being a disaster.” A minute ago it was “one of the more successful” campaigns.”
Stop trying to make my comments into something they are not, please. You don’t like Barr, I get it. There was a comment that the Barr campaign disastrous, which it clearly was not.
Barr had the second Presidential campaign in LP history to collect more than half of one million votes. And that during a campaign of historic significance with a charismatic opponent who had a huge political machine generating a lot of enthusiasm on one side and a lot of fear on the other.
Even by your own dark evaluation of the campaign it was in the top half of LP presidential campaigns, yes, making it one of the more successful campaigns.
You may consider the campaign to have had a negative effect on the LP. Since the campaign I have seen increased interest in the LP with enthusiastic volunteers coming in greater numbers than in the few years prior. People are coming into the LP from both the D’s and the R’s. I think that is positive.
Could the campaign have been run better? Absolutely, and you could say that about any LP Presidential campaign. But there is no negative effect on the LP from the campaign, despite how your numbers add up.
89 Thomas L. Knapp // Nov 27, 2009 at 5:41 am
Mik,
You write:
“There was a comment that the Barr campaign disastrous, which it clearly was not.”
Actually, the comment was that “celebrity recruiting” was disastrous in 2008. I take that as a reference to being willing to buy Wayne Root as a “celebrity.”
90 George Phillies // Nov 27, 2009 at 9:16 am
The Barr campaign went through one and a half million dollars, debts included. The national party went through a half million dollars — its available surplus over four years — to put Barr on the ballot, a financial strain sufficient that LNC, Inc. can no longer produce a monthly newsletter.
Barr spent virtually none of that money on legitimate public outreach. The numbers are in his FEC reports, and may be read at TheDailyLiberty period com, in in the pages of Liberty for America magazine, but the Barr campaign was primarily a scheme to transfer money to Barr’s Republican cronies.
Barr could not even be bothered to tell Libertarian candidates in state when he was appearing so that they could campaign with him. He did a fundraiser in one major western city. He invited far right wingers. The county chair of our party found out about it afterward, by accident, only because one of our other county party people’s significant other was an invitee.
The Barr campaign was a disaster because it threw away an election cycle.
91 Mik Robertson // Nov 27, 2009 at 9:20 am
Thomas L. Knapp,
You write
“Actually, the comment was that “celebrity recruiting” was disastrous in 2008. I take that as a reference to being willing to buy Wayne Root as a “celebrity.””
Here is the original quote:
“No, please, let’s not try that celebrity recruiting for presidential candidates thing again. In ‘08, that was disastrous. At least if we’re going to run celebrities, let’s run Libertarian celebrities like Doug Stanhope or Penn Jillette. But grabbing whatever falls off the hay wagon like we did in ‘08 will be a mistake…”
There is a very strong implication that the ‘08 Presidential campaign was disastrous. If that is not the case then the comment makes little sense. The comment referred to another comment about recruiting Lou Dobbs, not Wayne Root.
I don’t know that Bob Barr would qualify as a celebrity. He would qualify as someone with experience in elected office at the federal level. If you consider former congressmen or senators celebrities I guess there were a couple in the LP nominating process last year.
What other celebrities were recruited for the ‘08 LP Presidential campaign? In the first round of voting there were several votes cast from Pennsylvania for Penn Jillette, but there was no effort made to recruit him.
I’m only questioning the assessment of the ‘08 LP Presidential campaign as a disaster. There was another former congressional representative from Georgia in that race who did not do nearly as well.
92 Mik Robertson // Nov 27, 2009 at 9:40 am
@89 “The Barr campaign was a disaster because it threw away an election cycle.”
This is nonsense. In Pennsylvania not only did the effort to get him on the ballot allow our other statewide candidates to get on the ballot, the lawsuit he won to remain on the PA ballot has firmly established the ability of not only the LPPA, but all political parties to substitute candidates as provided for in the PA election code.
Because we were able to get our other candidates on the ballot, we had the best showing for a statewide slate of Libertarian candidates ever in Pennsylvania. We regained minor party status under the election code, which allowed us to run another statewide candidate this year, who again had the best showing against the top candidate of any statewide independent or third party candidate ever in Pennsylvania.
This is not to say there were not problems with the Barr campaign. I can assure you after getting jerked around that October, there was no one in the nation more upset with the Barr campaign than me. But sometimes you have to make lemonaide out of lemons.
There are good points and bad points in any campaign. You can dwell on the negatives and bemoan the state of affairs or you can build on the positives and move forward. In Pennsylvania, we have chosen to do the latter.
93 Andy // Nov 27, 2009 at 6:09 pm
STOP THE PRESSES! EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION! Lou Dobbs just announced that he is now IN FAVOR of amnesty for illegal aliens.
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/dobbs_amnesty_senate/2009/11/25/290944.html
Dobbs Says He Now Backs Amnesty
Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:08 PM
By: Dan Weil Article Font Size
In a little-noticed interview last week, Lou Dobbs announced that he now supports amnesty for the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States
Since he left his job as a CNN commentator two weeks ago, Dobbs’ has been bandied about as a Senate candidate in New Jersey. And now he is indicating that he might run for president.
But Dobbs became famous for his strong views on illegal immigration and foreign trade. Now that he’s a would-be politician, those views appear to be softening. Dobbs told Spanish-language network Telemundo he now supports a plan to legalize millions of undocumented workers, a stance he long lambasted as an unfair “amnesty.”
“Whatever you have thought of me in the past, I can tell you right now that I am one of your greatest friends and I mean for us to work together,” he said in a live interview with Telemundo’s Maria Celeste. “I hope that will begin with Maria and me and Telemundo and other media organizations and others in this national debate that we should turn into a solution rather than a continuing debate and factional contest.”
Dobbs twice mentioned a possible legalization plan for the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S., saying at one point that “we need the ability to legalize illegal immigrants under certain conditions.”
On Monday, Dobbs appeared on former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show. When asked by the former presidential candidate if he was urged to consider running for president himself and was indeed weighing a bid, Dobbs replied, “Yes is the answer.”
Dobbs told Thompson he was undecided about running for president but said he would “be talking some more with some folks who want me to listen to them the next few weeks.”
He later told a Washington radio station, “For the first time, I’m actually listening to some people about politics. . . . I think that being in the public arena means you’ve got to be part of the solution.”
It’s unclear whether Dobbs, who received an $8 million severance payment when he left CNN, would run as an independent or a Republican.
On Tuesday, Dobbs’ spokesman Robert Dilenschneider sought to quiet the presidential speculation a bit.
He told The New York Times, “I think Lou is realistically saying, that’s a long way off, but if he did run for office, there’d have to be an intermediary step, such as the Menendez seat.” He was referring to a 2012 race against incumbent Democrat Robert Menendez.
Dilenschneider said Dobbs was inspired by Republican gains in New Jersey this month and by President Obama’s decline in popularity.
Dobbs briefly considered a primary run against Republican gubernatorial candidate Christopher Christie, who won the election over incumbent Democrat Jon Corzine.
Dobbs has received the most attention for his strident opposition to illegal immigration. Menendez is an avid supporter of immigrant rights and the only Hispanic member of the Senate.
© 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
94 Thomas L. Knapp // Nov 27, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Nice to see Dobbs moving in the right direction, but I’m not sure I trust him on that, and he’s got some other problematic positions as well. Still, having him in the mix could make room for good things to happen.
95 paulie // Nov 27, 2009 at 6:49 pm
illegal aliens
No such thing.
96 Don Lake, FYI not recommended ..... // Nov 27, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Via Ohio’s lying thieving Virginia Brooks:
The New Frontier Coalition has begun taking nominations for people who have served and/or protected the interests of the people of The United States to receive the Burrowing Owl Award.
Sometimes the defenders of our nation and culture have gone without thanks for their service and sacrifice. Sometimes they have even been vilified.
The Burrowing Owl was chosen as a mascot for our award because like all raptors, its eyes are sharp and discerning, and because it has the habit of confronting its prey right where it believes itself concealed, in the brush.
The New Frontier Coalition wishes to say thanks to those patriots who oppose the degradation of our nation.
To nominate …………
97 Andy // Nov 27, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Does anyone have a breakdown of where Dobbs stands on all of the issues?
98 paulie // Nov 27, 2009 at 7:15 pm
wikipedia says:
Political views
In his early career Dobbs was known as a fiscal conservative. He is a critic of the “excesses of capitalism,” which he identifies as globalization, offshore outsourcing, runaway film production (the outsourcing of Hollywood jobs),[23][24] illegal immigration, free trade deals, corporate/big business influence in government and the Bush administration’s tax cuts. He describes himself as an advocate of economic populism, warning that outsourcing and the U.S. trade and budget deficits threaten the American middle class. Dobbs tends to oppose long-run trade deficits and outsourcing for the sake of labor arbitrage to obtain cheap labor.
In the 2000s, Dobbs has used CNN programs and columns to express his personal views on several subjects. He has become particularly noted for two positions: Dobbs is a critic of American immigration policy and expanded international trade. He is particularly wary of outsourcing and off-shoring, especially with China.[citation needed]
[edit] Illegal immigration and border security
Dobbs is strongly opposed to both illegal immigration and such labor-outsourcing and foreign worker programs as the H-1B visa program and guest-worker programs.[25][26] He has been a critic of the Mexican government’s poverty programs, and of church leaders in Mexico for not criticizing the Mexican government’s policies on border security and illegal immigration.
Lou Dobbs Tonight frequently featured themes of “Exporting America,” “Broken Borders,” and “War on the Middle Class”. The newscast often described illegal immigration as an “invasion.” Dobbs dismissed concerns about his rhetoric as “political correctness” in the segment billboarded “P.C. Nation”.
In his “Broken Borders” segments, Dobbs focused primarily on the southern border with Mexico and the drugs and the people that cross it. Dobbs has lauded the Canadian government for cooperation in securing the border with their American counterparts.
In an interview with Lesley Stahl, Dobbs spoke about his meeting with the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, saying they implied that he was anti-Hispanic by asking him, “if [he had] ever eaten a taco before, for God’s sake”.[27] Representative Joe Baca, chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, later wrote to CBS insisting that the group did not meet with Dobbs to discuss whether he’d eaten Hispanic food, “but to respectfully recommend that he cease the negative portrayal of Hispanics…and treat the issue of immigration in a responsible manner.”[28]
Some of the reporting on the show has been criticized including a claim that illegal aliens were responsible for bringing 7,000 new cases of leprosy to the United States in a three year period, but the actual timeframe was over the last thirty years, according to James L. Krahenbuhl, the director of the National Hansen’s Disease Program.[29]
Dobbs has criticized local officials for their approach to border security. In October 2007 he labeled ex-New York Governor Eliot Spitzer an “idiot” for advocating the issuance of driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants.[30] Hillary Clinton labeled Dobbs’ illegal immigration segments as having “all that hot air.”[31][32]
On October 5, 2009, a gun was fired in the vicinity of Dobbs and his wife as they stood outside their home. The bullet struck the vinyl siding of their attic and fell to the ground without penetrating the vinyl.[33] On October 26, 2009, Dobbs, on his radio program, told his listeners that the incident was attributed to his stance against amnesty for illegal immigrants.[34] However, some reports contradict Dobbs’ statements and point to the New Jersey State Troopers’ account of the incident, which they have attributed to a stray bullet from a hunter in the vicinity.[35]
[edit] Other views
Dobbs once described himself as a “lifelong Republican,” but has stated that he has switched to being an unaffiliated independent populist, as he no longer openly supports any party.[36] Though he made a donation of $1,000 to the Bush-Cheney campaign in January 2001,[37] he often has described the Bush administration and the then Republican-controlled Congress as “disgraceful.” He has also argued that both parties are controlled by corporate interests. Dobbs faulted Bush’s 2004 presidential election opponent, Democrat John Kerry, for first criticizing outsourcing and then backing off.[38]
Dobbs is pro-choice, opposes gun control and, though he is a fiscal conservative, supports some government regulations, as revealed in a 60 Minutes interview.[39] He has been critical of trade policies that he says encourage “sending jobs overseas”.[40]
Dobbs’ stance on trade has earned plaudits from some trade union activists on the traditional political left, while his stance on immigration tends to appeal to the right.[7] In an interview with Larry King, Dobbs revealed that he is now “an unaffiliated independent” owing to dissatisfaction with both the Republican and Democratic parties.
Dobbs has been generally supportive of LGBT rights in the United States. In June 2006, as the U.S. Senate debated the Federal Marriage Amendment, Dobbs was critical of the action. He asserted that traditional marriage was threatened more by financial crises perpetuated by Bush administration economic policy than by gay marriage.[41]
Dobbs is the author of War on the Middle Class, in which he claims that both Democrats and Republicans are harming the middle class. In it, he comes out strongly against the Bush tax cuts, which he argues favor the wealthy, and argued for raising the U.S. minimum wage from what was then $5.15 an hour.[42]
Recently, Dobbs has criticized the rescue program begun by President George W. Bush and supported by the Democratic-controlled Congress, calling it a “Wall Street Bailout.” Dobbs describes the program as the way for U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to help corporate interests instead of helping average Americans.
[edit] Controversy
Dobbs’ critics, including columnist James K. Glassman, author of Dow 36,000 and member of the American Enterprise Institute think tank, have accused him of inciting xenophobia.[43] Others have accused him of Hispanophobia, a charge he denies[44] and one which he has said offends him deeply, as his wife Debi Segura is a Mexican-American.[45]
Dobbs has also been criticized for his journalistic ethics by progressive news journalist Amy Goodman. She exposed flagrant errors in his reporting and his staff’s association with disreputable sources, complaining that “he has a special responsibility to rely on facts and to correct misstatements of fact.”[46] He entered the undocumented immigration debate “invoking populist rhetoric and championing the cause of the middle class”, a stance opposed by her Democracy Now! co-host Juan Gonzalez.[46]
A CNN report, filed by Christine Romans for Dobbs’s April 14, 2005 program, reported on the carrying of diseases across the border by illegal immigrants. Romans’ report cited an article in the spring 2005 issue of the non-indexed Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, written by Madeleine Cosman, which made the statement that 7,000 cases of leprosy had emerged in the United States within the previous three years (2002-2005), an increase attributed mostly to an influx of immigrants into the country.[47][48][49] Critics of the program argued that, in fact, the actual number of leprosy cases had reached 7,000 in the registry over 30 years, not the previous three years, with 137 cases reported in 2006.[50][51] In addressing the leprosy issue, Dobbs in May 2007 compared his critics from the left and right political spectrums to “commies” and “fascists.”[52] On December 4, 2007, Dobbs rejected Cosman’s claims as unsubstantiated, calling her “a wackjob”.[53]
On the May 23, 2006 edition of Lou Dobbs Tonight, Dobbs’s program displayed a map of Aztlán sourced to the controversial Council of Conservative Citizens. CNN spokeswoman Christa Robinson apologized for the graphic’s use, saying: “A freelance field producer in Los Angeles searched the web for Aztlan maps and grabbed the Council of Conservative Citizens map without knowing the nature of the organization. The graphic was a late inclusion in the script and, regrettably, was missed in the vetting process.”[54]
In mid-2009, Dobbs was criticized by the media for invoking “conspiracy theories” by questioning the constitutionality of Obama’s Presidency due to his supposedly ambiguous citizenship.[55] His willingness to repeatedly raise the “birther” issue[56] even though CNN itself considered it a “discredited rumor”,[57] led the Washington Post’s TV critic to remark that this “explains their upcoming documentary: ‘The World: Flat. We Report — You Decide.’”[58] The issue had come up in 2008 during the Presidential campaign, and had largely disappeared from the media spotlight until Dobbs picked up the issue again.[59] His statements in support of these investigations were dubbed “racist” and “defamatory” by the Southern Poverty Law Center[60][61] The controversy led to Media Matters airing ads critical of Dobbs and of CNN,[62] and to Jon Stewart mocking Dobbs on the satirical The Daily Show.[63] The New York Times said that Dobbs had “become a publicity nightmare for CNN, embarrassed his boss and hosted a show that seemed to contradict the network’s ‘no bias’ brand.”[64]
Shortly afterwards, Dobbs announced that he would broadcast two episodes of Lou Dobbs Tonight from the “Hold Their Feet to the Fire” conference in Washington, D.C., organized by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), an anti-immigration advocacy group. Media Matters also criticized this move, citing FAIR founder John Tanton’s history of making racially derogatory remarks and supporting white supremacist organizations. Media Matters president Eric Burns issued an open letter to CNN vice president Jonathan Klein, asking that the network take action against Dobbs. “Mr. Dobbs represents an ongoing threat to CNN’s credibility as a serious news organization, in no small part because of his polemical coverage of immigration issues and his continued use of his CNN show to lend prominence to groups such as FAIR”, wrote Burns. “The attention and legitimacy he gave to the ‘birther’ movement — and CNN’s condoning of his actions — did real damage to that credibility. His participation in the upcoming FAIR rally would do further, serious damage. We urge you to finally acknowledge that Mr. Dobbs’ actions in this and other contexts are inconsistent with the reputation that CNN strives to maintain.”[65]
99 Tom Blanton // Nov 27, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Certain neolibertarians who have been blinded by political science (and mystical data points on magic charts) may find themselves becoming sexually aroused in the event that they determine that Lou Dobbs has drifted into the libertarian quadrant of political opportunism.
It seems Dobbs has suddenly embraced some sort of amnesty that transforms illegal aliens into real Americans:
http://www.alternet.org/politics/144213/lou_dobbs_suddenly_loves_illegal_immigrants_clearly_he%27s_eyeing_public_office
AND, Dobbs is calling for an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan:
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/11/20/lou-dobbs-us-troops-out-now/
At this point, Dobbs merely needs to proclaim himself a libertarian and he will transform into a mystical data point in the special quadrant inhabited by other disgruntled Republican pundits such as Glenn Beck and Wayne Root. What a glorious opportunity for the LP.
Dobbs for President in 2012!!
100 paulie // Nov 27, 2009 at 11:37 pm
God damn it, Blanton.
You’ll friggin’ talk them into it.
101 Mik Robertson // Nov 28, 2009 at 12:11 am
This is the point when Lou Dobbs should get on the LNC, or at least a state affiliate board of the LP. Wayne Root, take note.
102 Steven R Linnabary // Nov 28, 2009 at 12:18 am
Via Ohio’s lying thieving Virginia Brooks:
Don, I’ve known Virginia many years, even before she became prominent in the Reform Party of Ohio.
I have never known her to lie nor to thieve.
While she and I disagree on most issues, her integrity I will stand behind!
PEACE
103 Don Lake, ....... // Nov 28, 2009 at 3:18 am
So in 2004, what happened to the $900 seed money to set up a National Reform Party convention in Ohio. She never gave receipt copies, she changed her story constantly, and what few explanations she did give did not ring true.
Her response, as committee chair, as news letter publisher, as accused defendant, was formulaic. How dare you even approach me! Here’s what happened. Oh, I forgot these details! [At the top of her lungs, a la Iowa's Ted Webster] ‘You can all go to hell!’
The news letter, finally mailed too late for impact on the election, was done in “Golden Rod’ —— dreadfully hard to reproduce. She first claimed that it was a free gift. She then tried to get reimbursed for the purchase — oops!
Later, numerous persons, anti Ralph Nader all, mentioned time and again that the news letter was purposely stalled (a la the TEXAS National Convention and the Nader endorsement).
Blatantly, ‘we (Ohio) need the money more than national. Blatantly, ‘we as a party, do not need to follow [Californians] Jeff Rainforth or John Blare and [Mississippian] Ted Weill * into the Nader camp, we need to independently think for our selves this year!’
*Theodore “Ted” Weill (July 25, 1925-November 20, 2009) was the nominee for President of the United States of the Reform Party of the United States of America in the 2008 election. [Lake: P1992 Perot 20%, P2008 almost 500 votes via two states!] He was nominated at the party’s national convention on July 20, 2008 in Dallas, Texas.[1]
During a 2009 interview with Monmouth University’s school newspaper, Weill expressed interest in running again in 2012, but he died at his home on November 20, 2009.[2]
************ Her integrity ?????? Not as soiled as John Blare, Valli Sharpe Geisler, Cody Quirk, and or Doctor Donald Grundmann —– but not far from it!
May be Steve Linnabary is not all that good at judging ‘character’ or may you just do not know the radical witch of Ohio as well as you thought you did. Ya got any wonderful opinions on Iowa’s Ted (Top Hat) Webster ?????? Another jerk I have personal reference[s] for ?????
104 Robert Capozzi // Nov 28, 2009 at 7:29 am
tb, in my case, Dobbs certainly doesn’t arouse me, but actually aside from his anti-immigrant stance, I like him a lot more than Beck. He seems more presidential to me. He doesn’t come across in that rabid right-wing way that Beck does.
Even better would be John Stossel. Even though Stossel isn’t quite as high-profile as Beck or Dobbs, he’s clearly been L for a longer time. That he’s a former liberal actually plays better with me.
Whether he’d mouth anarcho-abstractions on the hustings, I doubt. Nonarchy pods, baby-selling, private bazookas would seem contra-indicated.
105 Tom Blanton // Nov 28, 2009 at 9:05 am
Nonarchy pods, baby-selling and private bazookas are anarcho-abstractions that exist only in the contra-indication world of Capozzi.
Why would John Stossel, or any other candidate, talk about these things with anyone other than you, Bobby? Nobody else really gives a shit about these non-issues.
106 Robert Capozzi // Nov 28, 2009 at 9:22 am
tb, actually, I distinctly recall the MSM asking Ron Paul about private nukes during the primaries last year. They did because Dr. Paul was using L rhetoric on the arms issue.
Dr. Paul (thankfully) said there was no right to private nukes. He came out as a relativist, regarding some government actions are “more offensive” than others.
So, sure, those are not issues that the absolutist abolitionist anarchists among us would use during a campaign. BUT…absolutist and abstract rhetoric tends to trigger the media to probe the more extreme implications of L-ism.
Surely you’ve seen this type of phenomenon: Tell someone not familiar with L-ism that taxation is theft, they often respond, Oh, how are we to pay for defense and cops and sewers?
107 paulie // Nov 28, 2009 at 10:07 am
This is the point when Lou Dobbs should get on the LNC, or at least a state affiliate board of the LP. Wayne Root, take note.
I thought I was writing fiction in #45. Little did I know I had the gifts of Nostradamus.
108 paulie // Nov 28, 2009 at 10:31 am
Then again, maybe not.
Lou Dobbs weighs Senate run in New Jersey
Associated Press
Trenton, N.J. — Former CNN anchor Lou Dobbs is seriously considering running for U.S. Senate in New Jersey as “an intermediary step” that could lead to a run for the White House.
Dobbs told former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio program on Monday that he had been urged to run for president and would talk to some people about it.
His spokesman is playing down the idea. Robert Dilenschneider tells The New York Times Wednesday a run for president is a “long way off.” The spokesman says there would have to be an “intermediary step,” such as the seat held by Sen. Robert Menendez, a Democrat.
Menendez is the Senate’s only Hispanic member and a strong advocate for immigrant rights. He’s up for re-election in 2012.
Dobbs, who owns a farm in rural northwest New Jersey, has criticized immigration policies.
109 Robert Capozzi // Nov 28, 2009 at 10:47 am
wow, loopy! I’m thinking about running for Senate as a stepping stone to run for prez. If Dobbs thinks this way, it may reveal a certain grandiosity and megalomania. He’s a lifelong news dude, now he’s got a “master plan” for his second career? Breathtaking!
110 Mik Robertson // Nov 28, 2009 at 11:00 am
Why would anyone thing getting a seat in the Senate was a stepping stone to the White house? I mean really, how often has that worked?
111 Mik Robertson // Nov 28, 2009 at 11:01 am
“Menendez is the Senate’s only Hispanic member and a strong advocate for immigrant rights. He’s up for re-election in 2012. ”
How is Hispanic defined?
112 paulie // Nov 28, 2009 at 11:17 am
How does the US Census Bureau define it?
113 Tom Blanton // Nov 28, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Capozzi claims:
“I distinctly recall the MSM asking Ron Paul about private nukes during the primaries last year.”
Source please.
I’ve only heard two people talk about private nukes in recent years and both of them were you, Capozzi. This issue comes up about as often as the unlicensed time travel agents issue.
114 Mik Robertson // Nov 28, 2009 at 7:50 pm
@112 I think much of the racial information obtained by the census bureau is what people self-identify as. I don’t know that there are standards for identifying race anywhere.
115 Mik Robertson // Nov 28, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Actually, it seems the Hispanic classification is separate from race altogether, according to the U.S. Office of Personnel Management Guide to Personnel Data Standards.
On Standard Form 181 revised August 2005 (NSN 7540-01-099-3446) the following five races are identified with the associated guidelines:
American Indian or Alaska Native; A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.
Asian; A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
Black or African American; A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander; A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
White; A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
Hispanic is; A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
It doesn’t say what happens if there is any mixing. I guess it goes to show how much I don’t know.
116 Steven R Linnabary // Nov 28, 2009 at 9:37 pm
So if one is from the eastern part of Hispaniola (Santo Domingo), they are hispanic, and if the are from the western part of the island (Haiti), they are black??
Sounds like some convoluted government way to divide the people.
FWIW, I have NEVER taken part in the US Census, other than to do what is legally required. I merely give my name and the number of people in my home, NOTHING MORE.
I may do a YouTube of the proper way to fill out a Census form. Have to wait and see if I get the long form….again.
PEACE
117 Mik Robertson // Nov 29, 2009 at 1:24 am
They don’t do the long form for the decennial census anymore. Too many people complained. They take care of that with other surveys.
I find it odd that an Alaska native has to maintain community or tribal ties while a Hawaiian native does not. I don’t understand the concept of race.
118 Robert Capozzi // Nov 29, 2009 at 7:32 am
tb, not to leave you hanging, but I’ve not found the interview YET. I distinctly recall discussing it with a Ron Paul staffer and Susan Hogarth, but Internet searches have too much to sort through. Hopefully the staffer will recall which pub the interview was with, and I’ll share it back to you.
119 paulie // Nov 29, 2009 at 10:19 am
Better yet, give them nothing at all.
120 Mik Robertson // Nov 29, 2009 at 11:56 am
@116 “So if one is from the eastern part of Hispaniola (Santo Domingo), they are hispanic, and if the are from the western part of the island (Haiti), they are black??”
No, I think either could be of any race, and they also may or may not be Hispanic regardless of race. I’m not sure how that works. I think descendants of Island natives may be American Indian, but that is also unclear.
I thought the eastern part of Hispaniola was the Dominican Republic, but I may be wrong.
121 paulie // Nov 29, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Santo Domingo is the capital of the Dominican Republic. The people there are “Hispanic” (that is, primarily Spanish speaking), and have a range of skin hues.
Haiti was a French colony, and most people there speak a variant of French. The vast majority are of predominantly African descent.
122 Mik Robertson // Nov 29, 2009 at 1:27 pm
So is someone from Portugal Hispanic? What about someone from Andorra? It would seem that if you are from Haiti at the very least you should qualify as Hispaniolic. Perhaps that could be a special immigration category.
123 paulie // Dec 1, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Hmmm. good questions. The whole racial things is rather arbitrary…that’s why my race is “human” on government forms
124 Brandy Baker // Dec 4, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Paulie,
I absolutely love your pictures, especially the first one posted on here.
125 Brandy Baker // Dec 4, 2009 at 7:21 pm
PS The first picture: that’s exactly how I feel about Dobbs.
126 Mik Robertson // Dec 4, 2009 at 8:18 pm
@123 Excellent answer! I must remember that.
127 paulie // Dec 8, 2009 at 11:19 am
Brandy and Mik,
Thanks!
Happy to be of help and glad to see other people agree
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