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	<title>Comments on: George Phillies: LNC Wants to Eliminate Rights of Sustaining Members</title>
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	<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/</link>
	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
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		<title>By: George Phillies</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109969</link>
		<dc:creator>George Phillies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109969</guid>
		<description>For those of you who are curious, the LNC passed -- barely -- the vote to screw over the sustaining members, or perhaps to continue doing so if they have already been doing so.

The vote was

For
Michael Jingozian
Bob Sullentrup
Aaron  Starr
Michael Colley
Alicia Mattson
Mark Hinkle
Rebecca Sink-Burris
Stewart Flood
Dan Karlan

Against
Pat Dixon
Lee Wrights
Mary Ruwart
Tony Ryan
James Lark
Jake Porter
Rachel Hawkridge
 
Abstain -- Bill Redpath

If you want a functional National Party, start with those 9 for votes, and use the National Convention, etc. to give them a chance to work for liberty not near our national committee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those of you who are curious, the LNC passed &#8212; barely &#8212; the vote to screw over the sustaining members, or perhaps to continue doing so if they have already been doing so.</p>
<p>The vote was</p>
<p>For<br />
Michael Jingozian<br />
Bob Sullentrup<br />
Aaron  Starr<br />
Michael Colley<br />
Alicia Mattson<br />
Mark Hinkle<br />
Rebecca Sink-Burris<br />
Stewart Flood<br />
Dan Karlan</p>
<p>Against<br />
Pat Dixon<br />
Lee Wrights<br />
Mary Ruwart<br />
Tony Ryan<br />
James Lark<br />
Jake Porter<br />
Rachel Hawkridge</p>
<p>Abstain &#8212; Bill Redpath</p>
<p>If you want a functional National Party, start with those 9 for votes, and use the National Convention, etc. to give them a chance to work for liberty not near our national committee.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Trosper</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109945</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Trosper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109945</guid>
		<description>&quot;strike out with something innovative&quot;, rather. *slaps forehead*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;strike out with something innovative&#8221;, rather. *slaps forehead*</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Trosper</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109944</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Trosper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109944</guid>
		<description>These newsletters are a drain on resources. Alternatives need to be worked on now, instead of grasping at a medium (dead tree media) out of nostalgia or because a few stubbornly want their newsletter printed and in their grubby hands. It&#039;s a new day and a new pardigm. The LP was once the leader in terms of political presence on the Internet, it&#039;s time for it to break out of the old way of doing things and stike out with something innovative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These newsletters are a drain on resources. Alternatives need to be worked on now, instead of grasping at a medium (dead tree media) out of nostalgia or because a few stubbornly want their newsletter printed and in their grubby hands. It&#8217;s a new day and a new pardigm. The LP was once the leader in terms of political presence on the Internet, it&#8217;s time for it to break out of the old way of doing things and stike out with something innovative.</p>
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		<title>By: libertariangirl</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109937</link>
		<dc:creator>libertariangirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109937</guid>
		<description>Word to the P!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Word to the P!</p>
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		<title>By: paulie</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109888</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109888</guid>
		<description>As long as folks are insisting on arguing about silly things, I may as well chime in. This is an admitted failing of mine since the smart thing to do would be to let it die. 

I am on record on the petition that Lee Wrights should not have been removed for the LNC due to accidentally missing his dues renewal by a few days (especially when he was not notified by email or phone), having someone else pay it for him, etc. Regardless of technicalities, it seemed to me that the will of the convention delegates should not have been overruled without following the process for removal for cause.

At the same time, I have to agree with Mr. Starr that a plain common sense reading of &quot;last twelve months&quot; means the last 365 days unless it was a leap year. Sorry if that somehow retroactively hurts the way the Wrights removal attempt will be reargued for the future, but I gotta call &#039;em as I see &#039;em. 

Technicalities and language can always be gamed, but in the end, we all have better things to do and I believe the right thing is to avoid the gaming and the abuse of technicalities on all sides, and to move forward and try to work together productively and try to make a difference on many issues where we do agree. 

If one side wants to play games and get wrapped around procedural axes, it only validates and encourages the so called other side to do more of the same. Someone needs to say enough is enough.   I will do my best to refrain from followup comments on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as folks are insisting on arguing about silly things, I may as well chime in. This is an admitted failing of mine since the smart thing to do would be to let it die. </p>
<p>I am on record on the petition that Lee Wrights should not have been removed for the LNC due to accidentally missing his dues renewal by a few days (especially when he was not notified by email or phone), having someone else pay it for him, etc. Regardless of technicalities, it seemed to me that the will of the convention delegates should not have been overruled without following the process for removal for cause.</p>
<p>At the same time, I have to agree with Mr. Starr that a plain common sense reading of &#8220;last twelve months&#8221; means the last 365 days unless it was a leap year. Sorry if that somehow retroactively hurts the way the Wrights removal attempt will be reargued for the future, but I gotta call &#8216;em as I see &#8216;em. </p>
<p>Technicalities and language can always be gamed, but in the end, we all have better things to do and I believe the right thing is to avoid the gaming and the abuse of technicalities on all sides, and to move forward and try to work together productively and try to make a difference on many issues where we do agree. </p>
<p>If one side wants to play games and get wrapped around procedural axes, it only validates and encourages the so called other side to do more of the same. Someone needs to say enough is enough.   I will do my best to refrain from followup comments on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael H. Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109759</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael H. Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109759</guid>
		<description>Hope that is clear.  I&#039;m suggest that we ask for copy and save the $2000 for writing stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope that is clear.  I&#8217;m suggest that we ask for copy and save the $2000 for writing stories.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael H. Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109757</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael H. Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109757</guid>
		<description>@ 56 Aaron writes; &quot;I’m looking at roughly $2,000 for the printing, $2,000 for the writing of stories (contracted out) and I believe some layout is included with that figure, and roughly $4,000 for the postage and mailhouse charges.&quot;

Aaron could we not ask the membership to write for the news letter and save a bunch of those dollars?  Again I&#039;ll go back to suggest that we use an open source system to do the work.  We need a big notice in the paper asking for copy.  

Secondly I edit the state news letter and we send two copies to national every other month when we publish.  If there is something in our news letter that the office can use then please do so.  We try to have at least one and sometimes two articles on issues in each issue so go for it and use our stuff as well.

MW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 56 Aaron writes; &#8220;I’m looking at roughly $2,000 for the printing, $2,000 for the writing of stories (contracted out) and I believe some layout is included with that figure, and roughly $4,000 for the postage and mailhouse charges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Aaron could we not ask the membership to write for the news letter and save a bunch of those dollars?  Again I&#8217;ll go back to suggest that we use an open source system to do the work.  We need a big notice in the paper asking for copy.  </p>
<p>Secondly I edit the state news letter and we send two copies to national every other month when we publish.  If there is something in our news letter that the office can use then please do so.  We try to have at least one and sometimes two articles on issues in each issue so go for it and use our stuff as well.</p>
<p>MW</p>
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		<title>By: Michael H. Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109744</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael H. Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109744</guid>
		<description>The way this is going I think I&#039;ll keep my money to myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way this is going I think I&#8217;ll keep my money to myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Starr</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109582</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109582</guid>
		<description>Tom @ 57

Okay, just to continue with your thought process here.  Replace the words &quot;prior twelve months&quot; with &quot;prior year.&quot;

Article 5.3 would then read: “Sustaining member” is any Party member who has given at least $25 to the Party in the prior year, or who is a life member.

Under that scenario, if someone first joins on January 1, 2009, would he would be a sustaining member from that date through December 31, 2010, a period spanning two years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom @ 57</p>
<p>Okay, just to continue with your thought process here.  Replace the words &#8220;prior twelve months&#8221; with &#8220;prior year.&#8221;</p>
<p>Article 5.3 would then read: “Sustaining member” is any Party member who has given at least $25 to the Party in the prior year, or who is a life member.</p>
<p>Under that scenario, if someone first joins on January 1, 2009, would he would be a sustaining member from that date through December 31, 2010, a period spanning two years?</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas L. Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109578</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas L. Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109578</guid>
		<description>Aaron,

You write:

&quot;You’re saying  ...&quot;

No, I&#039;m not. The bylaws are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>You write:</p>
<p>&#8220;You’re saying  &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>No, I&#8217;m not. The bylaws are.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Starr</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109569</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109569</guid>
		<description>Marc,

I&#039;m looking at roughly $2,000 for the printing, $2,000 for the writing of stories (contracted out) and I believe some layout is included with that figure, and roughly $4,000 for the postage and mailhouse charges.

If there is a way to save money, I&#039;m interested.

Would you give Robert Kraus a call at LPHQ and go over your figures with him and confirm mine.  I have a much easier time seeing the accounting entries from the west coast than the actual bills.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking at roughly $2,000 for the printing, $2,000 for the writing of stories (contracted out) and I believe some layout is included with that figure, and roughly $4,000 for the postage and mailhouse charges.</p>
<p>If there is a way to save money, I&#8217;m interested.</p>
<p>Would you give Robert Kraus a call at LPHQ and go over your figures with him and confirm mine.  I have a much easier time seeing the accounting entries from the west coast than the actual bills.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: mdh</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109566</link>
		<dc:creator>mdh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109566</guid>
		<description>I dunno where semantic man went.  I am just anarchist man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno where semantic man went.  I am just anarchist man.</p>
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		<title>By: libertariangirl</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109562</link>
		<dc:creator>libertariangirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109562</guid>
		<description>this whole thread is irritating. I dont even have the patience to read and try and understand opposing sides . 

Semantic Man where are you when we need you??!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this whole thread is irritating. I dont even have the patience to read and try and understand opposing sides . </p>
<p>Semantic Man where are you when we need you??!!</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Starr</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109559</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109559</guid>
		<description>Thomas @ 50

Okay, just so I&#039;m clear on your thought process here.

Article 5.3 reads: “Sustaining member” is any Party member who has given at least $25 to the Party in the prior twelve months, or who is a life member.

You&#039;re saying that if someone first joins on January 1, 2009, he would be a sustaining member from that date through January 31, 2010, a period spanning thirteen months.

Is that correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas @ 50</p>
<p>Okay, just so I&#8217;m clear on your thought process here.</p>
<p>Article 5.3 reads: “Sustaining member” is any Party member who has given at least $25 to the Party in the prior twelve months, or who is a life member.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re saying that if someone first joins on January 1, 2009, he would be a sustaining member from that date through January 31, 2010, a period spanning thirteen months.</p>
<p>Is that correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Montoni</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/09/george-phillies-lnc-wants-to-eliminate-rights-of-sustaining-members/comment-page-2/#comment-109523</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Montoni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=10345#comment-109523</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My printer said: &quot;a monthly tabloid with up to four pages of process color, 15,000 copies. We would provide graphic design services. Our price for that job would be $1,795.30. That figure includes an estimate of $720 for graphics work but I doubt it would take an hour per page which is what I have in that figure.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

By the way, that was for a 12-page tabloid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My printer said: &#8220;a monthly tabloid with up to four pages of process color, 15,000 copies. We would provide graphic design services. Our price for that job would be $1,795.30. That figure includes an estimate of $720 for graphics work but I doubt it would take an hour per page which is what I have in that figure.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>By the way, that was for a 12-page tabloid.</p>
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