By Sarah Wires. I will try to do my own writeup on my blog later, maybe and/or am available anytime for phone interviews about my recollections, ideas etc if anyone wants to do one. For some background see a pre-convention post on IPR and comments on it. Disclosure: I was an active participant in the factional dispute at the convention.
-Paulie
415 690 6352
***********************************************************************
Report of the 2009 Mini- Convention of the Libertarian Party of Alabama
Held on June 27, 2009
Please know that we had a good attendance of 26, per my count; that doesn’t include a visitor that came in from the street with her little girl to get information about the LPA during one of the breaks. I will forgo naming every one that attended here, however thank you all again for your attendance.
Special thanks go to Stewart Flood, our National Regional Representative, who attended because that is part of his duties to give a report of the National activities and because he wished to attend. He honored us by giving a report from National and answering questions. Special thanks also go to Dr. Paul Cleveland; who spoke on the “State of the Nation’s Economy,” and who had an interesting Q & A time. Please know that you missed not only a very informative, but entertaining presentation and discussion if you were not there.
Your newly elected officers for the year 2009 are as follows:
Chair: Mark Bodenhausen by a vote of 14 to 8
Vice Chair: Matthew Givens by a vote of 13 to 10
Treasurer: Gordon Maddox unanimously
Secretary: Sarah Wires unanimously
Per changes to the Bylaws, which I will tell you about in more detail later, we changed from ten (10) District Chairs to four (4) Regional Representatives. The fours Regions are comprised of:
Huntsville and Florence
Birmingham, Tuscaloosa, and Gadsden
Montgomery, Selma and Auburn
Mobile and Dothan
Your newly Elected Regional Representatives are:
Huntsville and Florence: Dr. Deborah Gordon
Birmingham, Tuscaloosa, and Gadsden: Mr. Chris Carr
Montgomery, Selma and Auburn: Dr. Roderick Long
Mobile and Dothan: Pending contact with the current Chair, Leo McDermott
(Since Leo has been a power house in that area, a breath of fresh air, and while we sincerely hope he continues to hold that position – with the expansion of the area; we felt we should make sure he would wish to serve if elected, before a vote was taken, etc.)
Your new At-Large Person is Paul Frankel, of Tuscaloosa.
ByLaws Changes: As mentioned above the ByLaws were changed at this convention. The changes are as follows:
Motion by Stephen Dow: To change the wording of the sentence in Article IV, Section I, starting at “ten metropolitan..” to “four regions, each running east-to-west across the state, the first to include Huntsville and Florence; the second Birmingham, Tuscaloosa, and Gadsden; the third Montgomery, Selma, and Auburn; and the fourth Mobile and Dothan.” Replace all occurrences of “District Chair” in the bylaws by “Regional Representative,” and all other occurrences of the word “district” by “region.”
This motion was seconded and passed by the attending voting body. During the discussion of this motion an amendment was submitted by Anna Alldredge, regarding changing the number of At-Large Persons from two (2) to four (4) so the Regional Representatives would have more help. The amendment did not pass; however, the original motion by Mr. Dow carried and was accepted.
Stephen Dow made another motion to change Article IV, Section 5, regarding the EC meeting rules; but this motion did not pass.
During the course of the above discussions a motion was submitted by Mike Rster, regarding changing the title of the “District Chairs’ to “Issues Chairs.” However, after a discussion, Mike withdrew the motion. So, the changes to Article IV, Section I, regarding changing “District Chairs” to “Regional Representatives” and “Districts” to “Regions” were the only changes made to Article IV.
Stephen Gordon, presiding Chair, made a motion to change: Article III, Section I, where it states, “The officers are elected at the Annual party Convention by all Party members present…” to “The officers are elected at the Annual Party Convention.” This motion was seconded and passed unanimously.
Gordon Maddox submitted a motion regarding creating a new position for the purpose of out reach. The motion read as follows: “I move that the LPA appoint one or more persons as recruiters for the purpose of signing new members, forming new area groups, requesting members make voluntary contributions to the LPA and other functions that will increase the vitality of the LPA. Such person may be given the title of Vice-President of Education.”
The motion was discussed and after an amendment that the title be changed from “Vice-President of Education” to “Director of Out-reach,” the motion passed.
Since Mike Rster has served the LPA Executive Committee and the membership with service far above and beyond the call of his duties a motion was presented by Anna Alldredge that was seconded and passed, that “In express respect and gratitude,” we bestow Mike with the title of Vice-Chair Emeritus of the LPA; which he accepted. He was also presented a gift certificate by Mark Bodenhausen on behalf of the EC members.
To my knowledge this is a correct condensed summary of the events of Saturday’s LPA Convention. The highlights, if you will. Again, the first draft of the LPA Minutes will be posted to the EC this week. Thank you all. Be well.
Respectfully submitted:
Sarah Wires,
Secretary of the LPA
65 responses so far ↓
1 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 3, 2009 at 4:59 pm
With ‘friends’ like Stephen Gordon and Robert Barr, the 21st Century libertarian movement does not need any enemies……….
2 mdh // Jul 3, 2009 at 5:03 pm
In other news, Libertarians for a Better Veterans Home has formally hired their first employee according to a press release I read this morning Gary Fincher has been hired as Executive Director to work from their Harrisburg, PA office.
3 paulie // Jul 3, 2009 at 6:01 pm
What specifically leads you to such a conclusion?
4 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 3, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Paulie [or what ever your real name is]:
My dealings with Steve is that he ignored any thing out side of Alabama and or his corporate master Bob Barr. He did not follow up on leads for advertising, recruitment, and or news items.
He did not reply to much of any thing. [Ever hear of email auto reply?] No response to abused veterans in lazy and LETHAL government programs on veterans. Don’t care about smaller government? Don’t care about our nation’s former active duty? Don’t care about efficiency in public programs?
Don’t like Citizens For A Better Veterans Home and or Don Lake? Fine, not a minute for a short ‘go to hell’ email? Not a minute for a scribbled note “Got your stuff, plz leave us alone!” on the back of the SASE post card?
Bob Barr’s trip over your own penis behavior in P2008: self explanatory. [Some one get this guy a watch that works ....]
5 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 3, 2009 at 7:22 pm
mdh: read where? These folks contacted me, thru some fancy, big time words around and then disappeared …..
6 libertariangirl // Jul 3, 2009 at 7:26 pm
DRL_My dealings with Steve is that he ignored any thing out side of Alabama
he’s chair of the state chairs isnt he? doesnt that by definition mean he works on a national level od sorts?
7 libertariangirl // Jul 3, 2009 at 7:27 pm
or was i mean. who’s the new one?
8 libertariangirl // Jul 3, 2009 at 7:32 pm
DRL_ He did not follow up on leads for advertising, recruitment, and or news items.
me _ when you say ‘follow up’ on leads for those things , do you mean he prevented you or someone else from helping do those things or doing them yourself >?
or do you mean you passed ion several ‘ideas’ of those things to him and he foolishly ignored them?
i know as a activist , in a small skeleton crew of people who do actual work to get things done , sometimes there just isnt time to actually ‘make everyones ideas’ a reality .
why are people so fast to point fingers , so quick to offer their wisdom and ideas but so hard to do the work themselves?
9 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 3, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Paulie, or what ever your real name is:
So twenty days ago, [hope it helps, altho I have concluded a long time ago that your main goal is to stir things up, not calm them down.........]:
“onald Raymond Lake // Jun 19, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Yes, Mister Knapp from eastern Missouri, the cult of do little Libertarianism has totally neglected the upcoming Centennial of the most successful and historic non Democan and non Republicrat ticket of the Twentieth Centruy.
While the Libs do have really decent icons [Thomas Jefferson, Liberty Bell, Statute of Liberty] verses the pale and pallid Eagles and Eagle Heads of the run of the mill ‘loyal opposition’, Teddy and the Bull Moose [as failed 'leader' Steven Gordon and the Alabama dwarfs have stumbled over] is willing and waiting for more needed media attention.
Suggestions, books, news letters, have been mailed to Birmingham FOR YEARS. I and Citizens For A Better Veterans Home are not Alabama based. How ever, no support for abused veterans [I guess Libs just do not care!] or TR were ever issued.
Too busy for ‘out side agitators’? —— Gee can’t even return an enclosed self addressed post card with ‘got your package’ scribbled on the back?
And the dubious manipulations of [so called] Third Party Watch? Even with numerous ‘mea cupas’ the sad sad state of Steve Gordon’s and Bob [some one set my alarm clock] Barr’s debacle of 2008 speaks for it self!
“George Phillies // Jun 19, 2009 at 11:13 am
Would you care to write up the situation on the current leadership, which is apparently being completely replaced?”
Unresponsive and neglectful as they ride to the hounds of various ‘red herrings’, including Bob Barr back door shenanigans ………..”
10 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 3, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Lib Grrl: blatant example, as in cigar ads for’ from ebusinesses, or brick and mortar tobacoo shops with a strong ebusiness slant; as in MISTER CIGAR independent for Texas Governor Kinky Friedman, potentially a HEAD LINER candidate/ personality for Libs every where.
Steve Gordon and Bob Barr, tripping over one lost opportunity after another.
Alabama and Bob [Get Me an Alarm Clock] Barr focused? All kinds of other state groups have been narrowly slanted, but they [Independence Party of Minnesota] take a minute out to explain them selves —- almost with out exception.
One of the exceptions being ………………
11 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 3, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Lib Grrl: Citizens For a Better Veterans Home spent hour after hour in 2005 writing up proposals for California and national Green Party Abused Veterans Working Groups. We were unable to deliver said items personally to South Lake Tahoe and Tucson [Arid Zona].
We did how ever follow the instructions to the letter. The silence was deafening.
Working with most alternative political groups is like showing up for a team contest, dressed out, equipped, and ready to go —— with your mates standing round the back of the gym sneaking smokes.
12 libertariangirl // Jul 3, 2009 at 8:12 pm
DL_Working with most alternative political groups is like showing up for a team contest, dressed out, equipped, and ready to go —— with your mates standing round the back of the gym sneaking smokes.
me_ your probably right about that:(
13 libertariangirl // Jul 3, 2009 at 8:14 pm
you have a different writing style DRL , I am trying to get the hang of it:)
14 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 4, 2009 at 12:45 am
Semi techie back ground, tech manuals, former military rocket scientist, more of an editor [Reform Party USA monthly house organ] than reporter. More of a hard news guy [inverted pyramid] than a commentator [ground work, conflict, climax resolution].
Allegory, allegory, or ‘what’s a metaphor’?
15 little bit // Jul 4, 2009 at 11:17 am
Fundraising Fundraising Fundraising! We really need to get on it in Alabama!
16 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 4, 2009 at 2:35 pm
little bit: I would love to second the motion, but can’t. Libs are not of this planet. They, by and large, are soooooooo weird.
Is there any one beyond former GOP Bob Barr running as a non Dem or non Republican, more in need of adopting TR and the bull moose as icons?
Duh! [Altho their daily symbols, (TJ, Liberty Bell, Statute of Lib) are soooooooo far superior to most alternative groups and their candy assed Eagles and Eagle Head) ..........
Giving Libertarians money, power, influence in the real world is like throwing booze and car keys to an unruly teen ager! Give tons of money to Steve Gordon and Bob Barr and months later it is like it never happened!
[Evidence Item: P2008]
I take no happiness in saying this ……….
17 libertariangirl // Jul 4, 2009 at 5:25 pm
DRL , you make 0 sense.
18 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 4, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Lib Grrl: So you approve of Stephen Gordon’s mess up of TPW and the BobBarr08 non campaign? You approve of unethical behavior and kindergarten protocol?
19 libertariangirl // Jul 4, 2009 at 9:07 pm
I approve of cutting people some slack , i believe in not blaming people for other peoples mistakes i.e Gordon is not responsible for the Barr campaign .
I believe it easy to assign messed up motives to actions when you veiw someone as an opponent , ecsp when knowledge of said person is based almost solely on hearsay.
I believe Stephen Gordon is a hardworking LP activist albeit of a differnt philisophical set than myself.
20 Stewart Flood // Jul 4, 2009 at 9:23 pm
TPW died after Stephen Gordon sold it. The new owners clearly didn’t put in the effort needed to make it work.
Running a site like TPW or IPR requires a huge investment of time. The editors of IPR do a lot of work that we take for granted.
21 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 5, 2009 at 7:17 am
Lib Grrl: Years of first hand information is not here say, it is what it is, eye witness accounts. [I am soooooooooo sorry I can not be a mechanical Lib cheering squad on a BROAD BASED ALTERNATIVE POLITICAL SITE. Hello, hello,hello……….
Mister Flood: running a site like TPW or IPR requires a huge investment of fair ness, not a dozen radical, narrow minded Libs whom consider it a de Facto Libertarian site.
22 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 8:13 am
Paul is my real name. Many people here know me in real life.
Steve G. stays overwhelmingly busy for more hours a day than I could even attempt to be awake in a sustainable way, and does a hell of a lot. That also means there are lots of things he does not find time to follow up on. Barr is not his master, he was just a client that Steve had high hopes for, but the campaign was oversold and Steve’s influence on it was limited. Those areas of the campaign that he did not have authority over did not work nearly as well. SG worked with Aaron Russo in 2004 and then on Badnarik’s campaign, and helped promote Loretta Nall and Steve Kubby to the top of technorati search engines. He also led the campaigns to publicize the Cory Maye case in Mississippi and Marta Alonzo having her kid taken away from her by the immigration gestapo in Alabama, and many other things which were not corporate or right leaning. Before Barr entered the race, SG was active in recruiting Ruwart into the race and considered the possibility of working on Kubby’s campaign, and may have had something to do with getting Gravel in the LP. I’ve talked to him this year and he is again considering working on some radical/left-libertarian campaigns.
He does tend to get quite (over) excited by campaigns which seem to have “breakthrough” potential, and Barr’s was one, even though many of us told him it was fool’s gold, especially when Russ Verney became the campaign manager. Basically, he is tired of the LP acting in a small, petty and internally focused manner which keeps it from becoming a more serious player in politics.
Can’t blame Steve for that. Here is an example of one of these packages that Lake thinks deserves a response. Worth a laugh, but not really anything more.
Besides, Rster was running the Birmingham office, with other volunteers that came and went. Gordon was up near Huntsville, so was not usually the one receiving LPA snail mail.
23 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 8:23 am
He was. Now Pat Dixon is. Before Steve, it was Duensing, I think?
Steve worked at LPHQ for a while, writes and works on campaigns throughout the country, travels extensively, was Aaron Russo’s campaign manager and Badnarik’s communication director, ran and wrote for national blogs (HoT, TPW, currently the Liberty Papers), and the list goes on. Right now he is on the national LP platform committee.
As usual, Lake’s ramblings are without basis.
Lake is just unhappy that his mentally deranged care packages that he sends state parties are ignored.
24 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 8:49 am
Paulie, or what ever your real name is:
I already told you a while ago that Paulie is a commonly used variation of Paul, which is my real name, as many people here can attest. Why are you so concerned with my name anyway?
So twenty days ago, [hope it helps,
How does it help? I saw your ramblings then too, so what?
altho I have concluded a long time ago that your main goal is to stir things up, not calm them down
What "things" am I stirring up or calming? Did you accidentally switch meds with Milnes?
the cult of do little Libertarianism has totally neglected the upcoming Centennial of the most successful and historic non Democan and non Republicrat ticket of the Twentieth Centruy.
LOL, so what - you expect us to genuflect to Teddy Roosevelt? Only Milnes does that. TR was the opposite of a libertarian.
Suggestions, books, news letters, have been mailed to Birmingham FOR YEARS. I and Citizens For A Better Veterans Home are not Alabama based. How ever, no support for abused veterans [I guess Libs just do not care!] or TR were ever issued.
Lake, the actual fact is that you bombard state LPs with psycho packages (example in link above) and get laughed at and/or ignored. Of course we support abused veterans, it’s just that we have lots of other issues to deal with and very little time/people to deal with them. And we do not support TR, although I would take a piss on his grave if I happened to come across it.
DRL quoting
“George Phillies // Jun 19, 2009 at 11:13 am
Would you care to write up the situation on the current leadership, which is apparently being completely replaced?”
Yes, I answered that at the time, in fact the previous leadership was largely NOT replaced, although Steve Gordon and Mike Rster CHOSE not to seek reelection. The new chair is an ally of theirs, the Secretary and Treasurer were reelected, I’m still on the committee in a different capacity, Steve Gordon’s wife is the new district chair for Northern Alabama, the new Birmingham/Tuscaloosa/Gadsden region is represented by a new guy who appears to be on our side, and South Alabama is vacant.
Dr. Long, one of the “slate” who ran for chair, lost and was instead elected as regional chair in the area that covers Auburn, Montgomery and Selma (south of Birmingham, north of Mobile).
Their Vice Chair candidate won against a man who was not there, and who had never shown up in person before.
The other two slate members are not on the current committee at all.
It was the coup that wasn’t, in other words.
Besides the fact that it’s a tempest in a teapot – there were about 25 total votes at the convention, including several people on “both” sides made voting members just for the occasion – none of us are enemies; Dr. Long is one of my favorite writers in the whole world, for example, and even Steve Dow and I had a good conversation in Huntsville on my way out of Alabama, and found a decent amount of common ground on some of the issues being argued.
At the same time, I opposed the slate at the convention, for reasons I wrote about in some detail here and elsewhere.
So much for whatever point Lake thinks he is making by quoting Dr. Phillies question – which was based on an erroneous interpretation of incomplete available data, as I pointed out back then – I have no idea, but then again this IS Don Lake we are talking about here.
25 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 8:54 am
Mr. Friedman is neither a libertarian, nor interested in running as one.
Barr’s campaign was run by Verney and to some extent Cory. Gordon did as best he could under those circumstances. I think he could have done better had he been campaign manager.
26 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 9:00 am
DL_Working with most alternative political groups is like showing up for a team contest, dressed out, equipped, and ready to go —— with your mates standing round the back of the gym sneaking smokes.
me_ your probably right about that:(
Even a broken Lake is right twice a day..
27 Bon Voyage Sucker // Jul 5, 2009 at 9:01 am
My kids could have run Barr’s campaign better than the Verney/Cory tag team conservatives!
28 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 9:01 am
you have a different writing style DRL , I am trying to get the hang of it:)
Try reading it while tripping on acid.
29 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 9:58 am
Yes, I agree. I’m willing to help get you set up if you want to do it.
30 mdh // Jul 5, 2009 at 10:16 am
I saw paulie’s Georgia drivers license. It says “Robert Barr”.
31 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 10:41 am
ROFL. Consider the source.
Sample Don Lake care package:
http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/lpwv-gets-cryptic-letter-from-d-lake/
32 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 10:53 am
As usual, LOL
33 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 10:56 am
Another Lake distortion. TPW was great when SPG ran it. It only started sucking after he sold it.
He told me he sold it because he was tired of people smearing him and being nasty to him because of TPW. Of course, he also got a very generous offer, although he has not told me the exact term, other than that it would have been unlikely to have been matched elsewhere.
34 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 10:58 am
Exactly. and thank you for pointing that out, as well.
35 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:18 am
No doubt.
Your kids are very bright; I think you and your wife are doing a great job with them.
(At least if you are who I’m pretty sure that you are).
36 Robert Milnes // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:24 am
Once again paulie hijacks a thread-in his own way. (I have my way also!) By bullying someone with his know-it-all answers. Most of which is correct when viewed with spin control. But not all.
I find paulie & DRL both to be virtually insufferable and brilliant at times. The movement needs a big tent.
Paulie, thank you for the tip of hitting the Enter key. I have done it several times since.
But you just don’t get it about TR & DRL pretty much does. Libs have no chance whatsoever EXCEPT-IMHO-as part of a progressive libertarian movement/government. TR evolved & was precipitated into, cofounding the Progressive Party. However it is now just being understood that the Progressive Party has a fundamental flaw. It is split in the extreme left & right. Being 2/3 leftist, 1/3 rightist(libertarian). Actually libs could gain about 1/3(=2/6) representation by getting a formal or informal agreement to try for 50-50 with GP candidates & LP candidates. 4/6 of the vote v 2/6 > 3/6 & 3/6. I do not genuflect to TR & don’t care if you piss on his grave. The groundkeeper of his estate might though. Actually I don’t think I would piss on anybody’s grave. The dead are in Hades, perhaps to be rescued by Hercules. Where they are all equal in their fate.
If you want to be a Steve Gordon apologist, knock yourself out. He is part of the problem of right libs dominating. Which fed into the Ron Paul counterrevolution etc. Maybe TR scored 100% authoritarian on the Nolan chart. All this led me to conclude that maybe the Nolan chart is biased like everything else in favor of right lib over left lib. As I previously stated I have concluded TR was a left lib. You do not seem to cut him any slack that his time was 100 years ago. Things were much different. Do you think Einstein could have emerged in the Stone Age? He failed to do what I am going to try & hopefully will succeed-a winning progressive movement. But his failure will have been part of my success so I hesitate to berate him.
37 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:27 am
ROFL. If I can get a driver’s license from any state, especially if it says Robert Barr, I would..
38 John Famularo // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:33 am
libertariangirl wrote,
” I approve of cutting people some slack ”
It depends on the mission. In a social club managed by volunteers, perfection and total dedication can not be expected nor should it be demanded. In a war situation where lives and fortunes are at risk, much is needed, required and demanded of “leadership” and the troops, regardless of how much they are paid.
Cutting slack because someone is a volunteer or a friend or a nice guy or is in personal distress is not charity but detrimental to the cause.
So what is the LP, a group of like minded friends just having fun debating and playing at politics, or a serious effort to secure individual rights and reverse the trend towards socialism?
If it is the former then performance doesn’t matter, if it is the latter then both “leadership” and the support troops must be held to the highest standards.
39 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:34 am
Once again paulie hijacks a thread-
How do I “hijack” a thread I posted? Especially one about events in which I was an active participant, unlike other people here?
40 mdh // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:36 am
@36 – the notion that libertarians are “rightist” is downright absurd.
41 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:38 am
Who am I bullying and how? ROFL.
Lake is neither brilliant nor in my movement
You need an extra “enter” each time, your paragraphs still bleed into each other. Thus, I can’t read the rest of your comment.
42 mdh // Jul 5, 2009 at 11:39 am
@38 – So what standard should we hold you to, JF? What have you done to advance liberty in the past year?
43 Robert Milnes // Jul 5, 2009 at 12:31 pm
paulie, you are the only one who says my paragraphs bleed into each other. Maybe it is on YOUR end?
44 Robert Milnes // Jul 5, 2009 at 12:38 pm
mdh, J.F. makes a valid point, whether he is an armchair activist or not.///Ever heard of ROY G. BIV? I’m just saying greens are at the ROY(left) end of the political/color spectrum, libs at the V(right). It is not meant to be pejorative.
45 Robert Milnes // Jul 5, 2009 at 12:41 pm
yes, you are part of the Alabama story first hand knowledge etc. But you have repeatedly slammed DRL in this very thread & elsewhere. I call that bullying. I know because you’ve done it to me.
46 Robert Milnes // Jul 5, 2009 at 12:47 pm
DRL understands the importance of TR centennial etc. & you do not. You are in the same tent with him like it or not. Just like Cheney & Powell & Limbaugh.
47 mdh // Jul 5, 2009 at 2:28 pm
What’s going on in the tent with paulie and lake?
Something weird. I see smoke coming out of the top and hear weird humping noises.
48 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 2:57 pm
No.
Maybe it’s because other people don’t read you at all, or some people don’t mind reading ridiculously long paragraphs?
49 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 3:00 pm
No, more like infrared. See previous link.
50 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Nah. Just defending myself from spurious charges.
51 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I’m in a tent with all those people? I need to stop taking drugs.
52 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 3:07 pm
The noises are just Andy stretching on the edge of the bathhole. And you are probably responsible for the smoke, so don’t act all innocent.
53 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 5, 2009 at 3:47 pm
mdh: Darn, caught again! Paulie, what ever his real name is, is once again proving my point[s]! I am not trying to high jack a thread or NEED LESSLY bashing any one.
But if I see false hoods, or even questionable quotes, I will speak up! It is the patriotic thing to do. And Paulie as NOT insecure and or defensive…..
Pretty much any thing non Lib gets a torrent of come backs! Lake claims that the emperor has no clothes and Paulie [or whom ever he is] complains of the breeze blowing up his robe!
When I/ we have Bob Milnes pointing out Paulie deficiencies, then such short falls [TR, FAILURE at abused veterans issues, UNNECESSARY GLBT comments, non sequitors from paulie and then drawing back] then Paulie is obviously getting more transparent with his provocativeness.
If Paulie is bothered by being caught in bull shit, like his totally, totally UNNEEDED GLBT response, especially after reading Lake’s June posting, then quit spreading steer manure.
Driving while drunk, typing while stupid, I WILL REPORT ON YOU!
People’s exhibit Number Two:
“Russ Verney became the campaign manager. Basically, he is tired of the LP acting in a small, petty and internally focused manner which keeps it from becoming a more serious player in politics.” in response to Libertarian Girl’s post, not Lake’s. Pualie says that Lake is not brilliant, but at least I have a clue!
Russ Verney, Stephen Gordon squared! If Steve does not like guff, then quit being such an illogical and unethical weenie!
I am sorry if you feel badly ’bout a buddy being criticized, but you might notice that lot’s of folks are on the dog pile, along with the OMG Bob Barr Greek chorus. Gordon and Barr are a sorry, sorry, Bararick sized wound on Lib progress!
Only the Green’s Cobb ‘LaMarche debacle is worse in recent memory. With ‘friends’ like Cobb and LaMarche, the green movement needs no enemies.
Paulie’s feelings are hurt, and I just plain do not care. The truth, the truth, the truth, no matter whom get cut or killled!
54 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 3:53 pm
My feelings aren’t hurt Don, because how could they be? After all you are the guy that sent this
http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/lpwv-gets-cryptic-letter-from-d-lake/
ROFL
55 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Paulie, what ever his real name is,
Cue twilight zone music.
LOL, why does he think my name is something else?
56 mdh // Jul 5, 2009 at 4:03 pm
paulie’s real name is Andy Jacobs.
57 paulie // Jul 5, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Matt’s real name is Gary Fincher.
He doesn’t want you to know that he is double dipping by unethically at the same time being the chair of the LPWV, a position of trust, and the paid executive director of Libertarian National Socialist Greens for a Buttered Veterans Home, based in Harrisburg, PA, which recently failed to pay the phone bill on a Maine based line and now has phones based in Arizona and Mississippi. Go figure.
58 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 5, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Ah how cute.
Some of us grown ups are trying to change the world and the little kids are playing kindergarten games………
59 paulie // Jul 6, 2009 at 12:47 am
The only problem is that you are confused as to which is which. Not that I blame you, confusion is a frequent symptom of dementia.
60 Robert Milnes // Jul 6, 2009 at 9:58 am
paulie, @ 55, “…why does he think my name is something else.?” Maybe because you have stated several times that your real name is not Paulie Cannoli.
61 paulie // Jul 6, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Correct. My name really is Paul, which Paulie is a variant of. I rarely ever use “cannoli” anymore, since most people can identify me by Paulie alone (sort of like celebrities such as Madonna, Cher, and Starchild, among others).
My real last name is already printed enough places. I have death threats out against me, so I try to publish it as few places as possible for that reason.
I’m a little surprised anyone though my last name was really cannoli. It’s an obvious rhymeplay, like Helter Skelter, Eddie Spaghetti, etc.
In any case, Don seemed to be questioning whether my name is Paul, which it is, and why would anyone question that – or care? The only reason for any name at all to be attached to anything I write is to distinguish it from the writings of others.
Other than that, people should mind their own business.
62 Donald Raymond Lake // Jul 6, 2009 at 2:18 pm
What’s His Face starts the ‘dust up’, then walks away muttering, why can’t they just calm down ……
Every one, it is important [truth, justice, ethics] because the Dems and GOP are such liars and we alternative folks ESPECIALLY SO CALLED LIBERTARIANs occasionally are not much better! Again, SOME ONE is showing gross immaturity!
63 paulie // Jul 6, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Yes. Look in the mirror.
64 Erik Geib // Jul 6, 2009 at 3:03 pm
oh, the internet.
65 paulie // Jul 8, 2009 at 6:45 am
— In GrassrootsLibertarians@yahoogroups.com, marc guttman wrote:
>
> Maybe Root would have joined the crowd in shouting down a candidate for the LPCT nomination for US Senate, Vincent Arguimbau, at a July 4th Rally in Hartford, with chants of “USA, USA, USA,” we he discussed cutting defense spending:
>
>
> I consider this my finest four minutes.
>
> Vincent
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jnQAZJdHlI
>
> Congratulations, Vincent. -Marc
Tom Knapp on this
=================
http://knappster.blogspot.com/2009/07/necessarily-divisive.html
Steve Gordon, quoting his own previous advice to “Tea Party” organizers:
And from the same account, his evaluation of one of the events he attended on the 4th of July:
In other words, these events are political dry humps: The function of libertarians in the whole scheme is to help conservative Republicans achieve their daydream fantasy of pseudo-smaller-government orgasm without ever getting so fresh as to suggest that they should put out for real.
What, precisely, is such a “coalition” supposed to achieve? Libertarians have relentlessly stroked the conservative Republican … er, ego … for 45 years now, and what has it got us except used? For the love of God, Steve, get up off your knees and wipe that big white glob of “family values” off your face.
The Tea Parties were supposed to be a popular revolt against big government. In the space of a few months, they’ve become just another GOP astro-turf “revolt” against a few selected bits of big government that conservative Republicans dislike, and “hush, now” if anyone brings up the parts of big government — marriage apartheid, the war on drugs, foreign military adventurism — that they desperately want to save.
“Coalition,” my ass. When are you going to realize that there is no “Republican” in “team?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Steve Gordon replies,
Tom,
I think you’ve missed a key point I’ve made in the post you linked and quite a few others.
There are many GOP astroturfed events and many which are true grassroots coalitions. I continue to give examples of each — except on national television, where I spent my time last Tea Party trashing Gingrich, Huckabee and Keyes.
Considering that quite a few of the organizers, speakers and attendees were libertarian, constitutionalist, Alex Jones fans, Libertarian, Campaign for Liberty, Ron Paul supporters, Bob Barr supporters, at least one Mike Gravel supporter, etc. it seems unfair to paint them with the broad brush you just did.
Whether you supported him or not, you surely see the difference between a Ron Paul supporter and a Giuliani supporter.
Most of the Republican candidate speakers (good and bad) were “Ron Paul Republicans” for what that’s worth.
Additionally, you damned well know that I’ve supported coalition activities which cross political boundaries (Free the Hops) as well as more left-leaning coalitions (like bringing Lew Rockwell to an anti-war rally or pushing medicinal marijuana).
As I wrote in the article, “Republican” wasn’t a welcome word at that rally.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Gordon in response to other commenters:
Don’t you ever join in coalitions with the left regarding gay rights issues? I thought you were a participant in SF Pride parades.
I see the Obama administration has left you cold and dry, as well.
On issue-related stuff, I’ll work with anyone on our side of the line.
With regard to results, the last Tea Party (before this current batch) in my state led to the death of a very major GOP-proposed tax increase by a 2-1 margin. If you will recall, I was very active in that effort, too.
………………………
Are you saying that we should oppose Senator DeMint and a majority in the Congress who are working on an Audit the Fed bill because we oppose each and every one of them on some issue or another?
…………………………..
One more point.
Aside from Knapp, I don’t recall you guys providing any support or encouragement whenever I’ve worked with the left or taken swipes at the right.
Some examples include:
Repeated jabs at conservative hypocrisy.
Going after judge Roy Moore, mostly because of statements insinuating that it might be OK to exectute people for homosexual acts.
Pushing the Cory Maye story really hard in it’s early days.
Helping push medicinal marijuana legislation in Alabama.
Helping push Loretta Nall to the top of the Internet charts and then to national television.
Bringing together a coalition effort to reunite a nursing baby with his undocumented mother. This issue also forced the resignation of a state cabinet official.
Bringing Lew Rockwell to an antiwar rally.
Trying to provide some positive media when Mike Gravel joined the LP.
Hitting the national news protesting the RNC Convention in 2004. This included one article where I was holding up a rainbow-colored sign which read “Compassionate conservatism is so gay.” I couldn’t buy my own drinks that night.
Taking heat from “conservative” libertarians for my support and work for Aaron Russo.
How come you folks want to chew my head off when I work with the right, but never even seem to notice when I do anything left-oriented?
…………
On rereading my comments, I’ll retract and modify one statement: “On issue-related stuff, I’ll work with anyone on our side of the line.”
I won’t work with racists, pedophiles, Nazis, and other extreme groups in any manner.
I should have said I’ll work with most people, regardless of their political persuasion, on issues-based activities.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////
My reply:
A few points:
Steve is absolutely correct on the point that he has done effective outreach to the left.
And Tom is not the only one who knows this; I have defended Steve on that ground many times, although I don’t usually have as extensive a list of examples handy.
I think Tom has a good point in that we should make ourselves a distinctive presence at both right and left events.
Consider, for example, the message that “taxes fund the war machine”. This is a message we can carry to both anti-tax and anti-war gatherings. Sure, some people at anti-war gatherings may not like that point because they are pro-tax, and some people at anti-tax gatherings may not like it because they are pro-war.
But what is the alternative? We can keep quiet on economic issues at peace events and never distinguish ourselves, and we can keep quiet at economic freedom events and never distinguish ourselves.
Someone who follows us around may eventually notice that we are at both types of events – assuming of course that we actually are (I certainly did not see the level of promotion for peace rallies or any other left leaning coalition/outreach from the LP as I did for the tea parties). But then, even in this rosy scenario, we will mostly end up with folks who are scratching their head as to why we are there at all.
On the other hand, if we agree on the main premise of the event yet clearly distinguish ourselves everywhere we go, and go everywhere, we make our challenge to the dominant view of how the world works much more unavoidable.
Regarding CLS point on Lew Rockwell above, there is a vast difference between Rockwell and Buchanan on economic issues, at a minimum; let’s not lump them together.
CLS and Steve Gordon are both two of the best libertarian activists; it’s really too bad that there is such bad blood, it is very counterproductive to the many areas where we can still work together.
In other news, how about some debates between Wayne Root and Ernie Hancock? Hancock is willing. Or how about Loretta Nall? Couldn’t get in touch.
Humor break brought to you by AaronStarr.com
Paulie | 07.07.09 – 7:51 am | #
.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Reply to me from Chris Bennett:
Kissing much butt lately Paulie?
What about an apology from Steve Gordon about supporting a candidate who eulogized to the highest degree a former US Senator who was clearly RACIST even at the time of his death. YES I’M TALKING ABOUT BOB BARR!!!
Gee Steve is this how you throw away your friends who until as early as 2008 supported you in any endeavor you took part of. I’m still awaiting, you have my number but I shouldn’t hold my breath about it.
Yes I do admit that Steve has done much outreach to the left on issues that concern libertarians and liberals alike.
Even so (you still get the GAS FACE!)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
My reply to Chris:
Chris,
I never kiss anyone’s ass, not yours and not Steve’s.
I told Steve from the start that I did not think Barr would be a breakthrough candidate, and I did not think that the conservatives who supported Barr for his record in congress would set aside their differences with libertarians who liked Barr for (at least supposedly) being a changed man.
I criticized the Barr campaign in many ways before and after the nomination. In case you have forgotten, much of that is still easily available.
Barr was one candidate, one year, just as Russo was another year, and Ron Paul, Badnarik, etc., and just as Ruwart and Kubby almost were.
I don’t always agree with Steve, but the nastiness on all sides is counterproductive. For another example, the LNC is about to spend about $25,000 in travel costs to go to a meeting whose main focus will likely be a single $25 donation and how it was handled.
The nasty tone of the infighting is what really leaves a bad impression and drives people away, or keeps them from working with each other on future projects just because they disagreed on one campaign or strategy.
I call out all sides on that, and on other things – lack of activity, organization and follow through, lack of sunshine and transparency, etc.
I can work with almost everyone in the
party to some extent, and I can and do criticize anyone and everyone when I think they require it – although I’m trying to be more constructive about it.
Paulie | 07.07.09 – 12:44 pm | #
> ________________________________; Wayne Allyn Root ; LP Radical Caucus
> From: Starchild
> To: Bruce Cohen
> Cc: CALibs@yahoogroups.com; Grassroots Libertarians Caucus
> Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 4:31:17 AM
> Subject: [GrassrootsLibertarians] Re: [ca-liberty] Wayne Allyn Root discovers the value of anti-government protests
>
>
>
>
>
> Wayne Root apparently believes that until very recently, being
> interested in “saving your country” meant being a flag-waver, never
> having a bad word to say about the U.S. government, and never having
> been to a protest in your life. All in sharp contrast to those
> “typical socialist radicals” and “counter-culture hippies” who
> habitually disturbed our tranquility with their numerous unnecessary
> complaints about harmless things like undeclared wars and police
> brutality! In Wayne’s World, it seems the only people who went to
> protests before Obama came along were unpatriotic “American-haters. ”
> Although besides the “American-haters” he also reports the presence of
> that quasi-mythical creature, the “professional protester,” a species
> only somewhat less steeped in popular mystique than the legendary
> “welfare queen.” (No Bigfoot sightings, Wayne? I’m disappointed! ) But
> I’m glad he’s discovered that you can go to protests and still be a
> good person — indeed that perhaps it is even (gasp) Patriotic. When
> it comes to speaking out against abuses of power, better late than
> never. See you at the Tea Party!
>
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
>
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Bruce Cohen forwarded (in part):
> > I was a Witness to History
> >
> > By Wayne Allyn Root
> >
> > The protestors at these Tea Parties are not the typical socialist
> > radicals, counter-culture hippies, and professional protestors of
> > the left who attended the war rallies. The Tea Party protestors
> > define middle America. These are small business owners, blue-collar
> > workers, parents with young children in tow, grandparents, patriotic
> > war veterans. These are people who have never said a bad word about
> > America in their lives. These are flag wavers- not flag burners.
> > These are lifelong Republicans and conservatives and libertarians
> > who have never attended a protest in their lives. These are patriots
> > looking to save their country, not American-haters looking to tear
> > it down…
>
Leave a Comment