It is interesting to compare the new results to an earlier survey in which 70% of Americans prefer a free-market economy. The fact that a “free-market economy” attracts substantially more support than “capitalism” may suggest some skepticism about whether capitalism in the United States today relies on free markets.

Other survey data supports that notion. Rather than seeing large corporations as committed to free markets, two-out-of-three Americans believe that big government and big business often work together in ways that hurt consumers and investors.
]——————–

Clearly, the majorities of these survey populations believe that capitalism is not the same as free-market, and who can blame them for that belief? In many of the respondents’ minds, they were being asked if they preferred that the product of their work be owned by the government, or collectivist business entities.

The LP is railing counter-productively here, and playing into the hands of those they oppose. Instead of pointing out that the current economic problems were not caused by deregulation, but instead by legislating regulations that allowed non-transparency in corporate transactions, the LP lamely attacks persons who understand that it was corporations run by piss-poor businesspersons, that got the taxpayer bail-out monies to save their incompetent asses. This isn’t free-market principles, it’s a horrible manifestation of crony-capitalism.

Yeah, but go ahead and give your money to these ideoillogic hammerheads; these asswipes unfit for use in a dysentery ward short on supplies, so they can keep issuing off-target dialectical asininities, intended only to further solidify their base of fainéant Republican whiners, and continue carrying the LP further away from libertarianism on into its dismal future as GOP lite.

If you need to look at a socialist country to ponder try Canada. You can find problems with socialism there and talk to Canadians about solutions. It’s just a short trip across the border. You’ll find most of them very civil.

And Jack, maybe communism in your own mental image is stateless and classless but all communist governments so far have led to strong, oppressive governments and a society of several classes: party apparatchiks, military personnel (always of at least 2 classes: political and defense), police, workers, prison workers, etc.

The problem for a people that want to be free is how to not only prevent the government from having too much power but also the capitalists from having too much power. For example, county land use decisions that are codified into law are heavily influenced by the wealthiest people/corporations in society through support for certain elected officials, leaving out the typical citizens. How do we keep the wealthiest from having the greatest influence through their monetary support of government and maintain our freedom?

many would argue a lot of things. There are people who think that if you don’t want to privatise the roads you’re an incurable socialist.

My point is that, as you said, different people understand many different things when hearing the words ‘capitalism’ and ‘socialism’. And in many of those cases I would definitely say that this definition of socialism works better than that definition of capitalism, etc.

Just look at the use of the word ‘liberal’ in America, for instance. And I think we can all agree here that ‘socialism’ is often misused. Those who don’t like ‘capitalism’ probably don’t understand it, or likely confuse it with the corporatism Republicans push as their brand of ‘capitalism.’ Those who like ‘socialism’ are more likely to think of mixed-use social/capital systems like Canada and/or the Scandinavian countries than pure socialism.

Many would argue that kibbutzim more closely resemble anarcho-syndicalism than anything.

No socialist on the planet would regard Obama as a socialist.

How many candidates have explained that occupational licensing laws don’t help low income people? Where’s the literature on the issue?

Have we even pointed out that midwives were outlawed in many states, or that regulations make it difficult to own and operate a private bus company, or that building codes are there for the home building and mortgage banking industry?

Or that the FED is there to benefit Wall Street at the expense of Main Street and where’s our literature on the history of inflation proving our case?

Actually, I think Jack defines capitalism and socialism correctly.

What true libertarians are for is voluntaryism, free association, any number of things – but not corporate capitalism.

Anyone who thinks corporate capitalism can exist without the state, whether they want it to or not, is mistaken.

The marketplace hs either been open or closed with some degree in between for centuries to the betterment or detriment of mankind.

Capitalism and socialism are just words that have been added to the debate in the recent years.

Me, I am for open markets.

MW

An article in the Guardian UK really made me think.

What if we think what comes AFTER socialism and capitalism?

I posted the article at my blog:

http://wilderside.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/economic-advise-from-david-mcreynolds/

Lets teach them something:

Socialism is defined as when those who work the means of production own them and/or they are used for the betterment of society. The Eastern Bloc can best be defined as “state capitalist”.

Communism is a STATELESS, classless society. In Communism there is no government, so defining things like the Patriot act as Communist is rediculous.

Facism is meant to crush the workers’ movement, not capitalism. When Franco started the Civil War in Spain, the Anarchist labor union, the CNT, had 1.5 million members. The UGT (socialist trade union) was the 2nd largest union in spain (CNT was the largest), and leftist parties won the elections. Franco declared himself against the “reds and enemies of Catholicism”. Franco was supported by Hitler, Fascist Portugal, and Fascist Italy.

In Germany, the Anarchist labor union (FAUD-Free Workers Union of Germany) had about 150,000 members, and there had been a failed Marxist revolution in 1919-1920. The Nazis had some socialist policies because they followed what a British politician later said of workers “Give them social reforms, or they will give you Social Revolution”.

In Fascist Italy, the Union Syndico Italiano (another Anarchist trade union) had 500,000 members, and a very strong workers movement. The Fascists took power to destroy this (the USI had to work underground, it is still in existance today)

Let this inspire every good person to find one of those people in the 27% that don’t know which is better capitalism or socialism and teach them why socialism is so very bad and capitalism is good.

And the Republicans laid the groundwork for all this. There’s no doubt in my mind that war criminal McCain would be doing all of the exact same things (probably worse).