Posted to IPR by Paulie
Posted by Arlen Williams to Renew America. Excerpt:
Chief Justice John Roberts has sent a full-throated challenge of Barack Obama’s presidential eligibility to conference: Lightfoot v. Bowen (SCOTUS docket page). Investigating Obama (I.O.) interviewed Lightfoot lead attorney Orly Taitz at 2:20pm CT today, minutes after she learned of this move.
Taitz believes, “This is Chief Justice Roberts telling the Congress… the other eight Justices, that there is a problem with this election.”
The Lightfoot case has legal standing, due to litigant, Libertarian Gail Lightfoot’s vice presidential candidacy in California. It also addresses two major issues of legal merit: 1. Obama’s failure to provide legally evidentiary documentation of citizenship and American birth and, 2. his United Kingdom citizenship at birth, passed to him by his Kenyan father when that nation was a British colony. (Other current challenges also submit that Obama’s apparent status as an Indonesian citizen, as a child, would have caused his American citizenship to be revoked.) This case is therefore considered the strongest yet to be heard by the Supreme Court. Obama challenger, Philip Berg had previously been granted conference hearings, scheduled this Friday, 1/9 and on 1/16.
Lightfoot was listed as a registered write-in VP Candidate with Ron Paul. Renew America is connected with Alan Keyes, an AIP candidate in California who has also sued over the issue of Obama’s citizenship status.
117 responses so far ↓
1 Dave Weigel // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:46 pm
How many times are we going to read this story with different names? It means nothing for a suit to be granted conference. Countless suits are granted conference so they can be shitcanned when the Court meets.
When one of these suits is granted cert – which should happen sometime between lunch and teatime on the 2nd week of Never – then it’ll be news.
2 paulie cannoli // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:48 pm
News for IPR isn’t the same as news for Reason.
We cover a smaller universe and take what we can get. Lightfoot’s involvement makes this news here. I would agree with your judgment that it is not newsworthy in a larger sense.
3 Everett Mann // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:53 pm
I’ve been pacing this thing since the COLB hit the web. This may be a point of critical mass. Congress has certified the votes and gritting my teeth I sent congratulations to Obama at change.gov. Now the courts are procedurally free to act. BUT….
has anyone contemplated the consequences if he is found to be ineligible? From teary-eyed black grandmothers weeping in Chicago to the laughter in Kenya and all over the world. From riots in the streets to the destabilizing impact on financial markets. Has anyone considered that we’re throwing rocks at a nuke?
I’m an idealist too but DAMN, people!
4 Coming on the back of the LP // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Give it up, ain’t happening.
5 Richard Winger // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:20 pm
If Obama were proved to be ineligible, there is nothing to stop the USA from repealing that part of Article II about “natural-born”. It is a silly provision that ought to be repealed. I don’t support Arnold Schwarzenegger for president, but I think if the voters want him to be president, it is silly that he can’t be president. Anyone who has been Governor of a big state for more than a single term ought to be able to run for president. Same goes for the Governor of Michigan, who was born in Canada.
6 Deran // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I think this stuff is just last gasps from a fumbling Rightwing. It’s all in the toilet for the Right, and theya re grasping at straws, anything to keep the listeners/watchers tuning in!
7 paulie cannoli // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Unfortunately, you are correct.
8 Dave Weigel // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:51 pm
We cover a smaller universe and take what we can get. Lightfoot’s involvement makes this news here.
This is true, and I’m not for blacking out the “story” or anything. I’m just commenting that Keyes, Lightfoot, and other assorted crazies are probably going to be filing these lawsuits for eight years.
As long as they do, it’s worth pointing out that Orly Taitz is either a fool or a liar (or both) when she says that the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS thinks “there is a problem with this election.” He doesn’t. Anyone following her work or (let’s hope not) giving money to one of these “causes” should know what they’re dealing with.
9 NANCYT // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:08 pm
You are missing the whole point no one should be able to disregard any of the constitution for their personal gain.
10 Christian // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:33 pm
We don’t choose which parts of the constitution we like and which we don’t. That’s not how it works. Regardless of party affiliation, no person wanting to be President of the United States should be allowed to keep something as basic as this hidden. I, too, would think it was nothing if I could understand why someone would spend hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep people from seeing a ten dollar birth certificate. It just defies all logic.
11 Dave Weigel // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:47 pm
no person wanting to be President of the United States should be allowed to keep something as basic as this hidden
Indeed, which is why George W. Bush and Bill Clinton released their birth certificates to the public. Right? Right?
The thing that always gets me about this stuff is that Obama’s mother never went to Kenya. She was 18! And not rich! And her husband’s family frowned on his bigamous American marriage! But Obama’s black and has a funny name, so he needs to be held to a higher scrutiny or something.
12 Eric // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Use your brain. If Ahhnold were president, and we had an armed conflict, or, hell, just an economic conflict, with Austria, what would he do? Would he hold US interests above all others? Would he be more conciliatory toward his former countrymen? We don’t know. That’s why the “natural born” clause is in the constitution. So the question is not necessary.
13 Eric // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Dave,
Was there any REASON to question Bush or Clinton on their birthplace? If there were, I would be JUST as uptight about them.
14 Steven Druckenmiller // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Eric – that is totally laughable. Are you saying that all you have to do to have airtight, unquestionable loyalty to this country is to be born here?
By that logic, we should not allow foreign-born Senators, Representatives or Supreme Court Justices, because, hey, at some point the United States might conflict with their nation of birth.
15 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Yeah, I’m worried about military conflict with Austria.
“The Austro-Hungarian empire. Famous for fuck all! Just slowly collapsed like a flan in a cupboard. The Ottoman empire. Full of furniture for some reason.” – Eddy Izzard, “Dressed to Kill.”
16 paulie cannoli // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Which superpower enemy is Obama supposed to betray us to, Kenya or Indonesia?
17 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:13 pm
So we can add Gail Lightfoot to George Phillies and Chris Bennett as LP activists who were not afraid to run for president or VP against the Barr-Root monstrosity.
18 Coming on the back of the LP // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Also Tom Knapp.
19 Coming on the back of the LP // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:15 pm
And John Wayne Smith.
20 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Answer is obviously the British Empire. You can see where he clearly supports the Hanoverian usurpation.
21 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:17 pm
And Dan Kilo. And Barry whatsisname Hess? in Arizona. Don’t think Marilyn Chambers is an LP activist, though.
22 Karole Noymann // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:32 pm
I can understand rightwingnuts like Keyes challenging this but its hypocritical for any Libertarian to use an ambiguous technicality in the Constitution to overturn the clear majority in a democratic election. Even if Obama was born in outer space it shouldn’t matter to a Libertarian who professes to respect the democratic process.
23 Michael Seebeck // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Some comments:
Gail ran for VP in Denver first, endorsed Kubby, then was Paul’s VP candidate on an independent write-in in CA.
Weigel, grow some sense, will ya? Obama’s eligibility is in question because it is not clear where he was born. Clinton’s and Bush’s were not. Gail Lightfoot is a former LPCA chair. She is not crazy. Fifty secretaries of state dropped the ball here, and you want to sweep it under the rug? Are you THAT enamored of the state to give them a pass on the fundamentals of their jobs? If anyone is crazy, it’s you for making such bizarre statements.
Repealing the natural-born requirement is a mistake. Clarifying it is needed and much better. Determining who determines eligibility (Constitution is silent on it) is necessary as well.
If Obama is found ineligible, per section 3 of the Twentieth Amendment, Biden becomes president.
24 Michael Seebeck // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Karole, Libertarians also believe in following the Constitution, technicalities or not.
25 Catholic Trotskyist // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Throw out the constitution, submit to the New World Order.
God bless the state, God bless the Church, amen.
26 libertariangirl // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:40 pm
your so funny CT!your almost as funny as stephen colbert
27 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 9, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Holding people elected to public office to the terms of the constitution seems like a lost cause, but it is a noble one “for a’ that.”
Biden as president. -shudder-
28 MaineSkeptic // Jan 9, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Eric // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Was there any REASON to question Bush or Clinton on their birthplace?
___
There’s no valid reason to question Obama’s either.
By the way, have you all read Orly Taitz’s letter to Chief Justice Roberts? (http://www.scribd.com/doc/9693866/Orlys-Letter-to-Chief-Justice-Roberts)
In the middle of trying to persuade him to look favorably on her case, she pauses to rebuke him for appearing to “consider Annenberg to be a reputable organization,” and in the process she gets several of her facts wrong.
This is insanity. I can’t believe anyone is taking it seriously.
29 Catholic Trotskyist // Jan 9, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Thanks LG.
Biden as President wouldn’t be bad. He’s close to being a real Catholic Trotskyist. But Obama is the chosen one.
30 Joe Progressive // Jan 10, 2009 at 1:18 am
Since Obama is a trained Constitutional Lawyer, why would he run knowing he is not not eligible? If any of this blather is true, Obama is not fit to be a Burger King Manager let alone our nations leader. This would be the largest fraud ever put over on the American People and I for one would be unforgettably ashamed of myself for drinking the Kool Aid. Being in angry denial, I will never again be able to trust my intellect or emotions and feel like a brainwashed fool.
Say it aint so.
Joe
31 Andy // Jan 10, 2009 at 2:44 am
“Prospective Advertiser // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:13 pm
So we can add Gail Lightfoot to George Phillies and Chris Bennett as LP activists who were not afraid to run for president or VP against the Barr-Root monstrosity.”
And also Charles Jay.
I suppose that we could add Ron Paul too since he was on the ballot in Montana and Louisiana and he was registered as an official write in candidate in California, although Ron Paul himself did not endorse any of these efforts.
32 convinced1972 // Jan 10, 2009 at 6:25 am
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
Article II Section I of the Constitution is clear on the requirements to be President of the United States.
If Obama is not a natural born citizen then he’s not constitutionally qualified.
33 Coming on the back of the LP // Jan 10, 2009 at 8:27 am
Dissident LP members on the ballot or registered write-in candidates for prez/vp
2000
AZ
L. Neil Smith
Vin Suprinowycz
2004
UT
Charles Jay
Marilyn Chambers
2008
AZ
Charles Jay
Barry Hess (write-ins)
CA
Ron Paul
Gail Lightfoot (write-ins)
CO
Charles Jay
Dan Kilo
Tom Stevens
Alden Link
FL
Charles Jay
John Wayne Smith
Tom Stevens
Alden Link
LA
Ron Paul
MT
Ron Paul
NH
George Phillies
Chris Bennett
TN
Charles Jay
Tom Knapp
others?
34 pdsa // Jan 10, 2009 at 8:49 am
SCOTUS commonly refers resubmitted certs to the whole court. This means nothing. (see: VOlokh Conspiracy). This is in reality, a “full-throated” conniving of imbeciles. The continuing saga of Gullibles’ Travails.
It’s too bad that certiorari discussions are not recorded. Then we could listen to nine old black satin moo-moo fetishists chortle loudly as they denied it.
Just make sure when referring to Lightfoot that you capitalise the “L” in Libertarian. She may be a member of the LP, but she most assuredly, is not a libertarian. Another piece of the evidence proving the vast conspiracy of the LP’s right-siding by John Bircher wannabes, aided and abetted by other right-sided LooneyCons.
35 Coming on the back of the LP // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:01 am
If so, the LP has been fucked from the start. According to
http://www.lpcslo.org/lightfoot/biography.shtml
She has been in the LP since 1972 and active since at least 1980.
36 Tom Mathers // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:16 am
Which superpower is Obama suppose to betray us to? How about the 100,000,000 (10 percent of a billion) Islamic fundamentalists roaming the globe of which he is probably one? The Constitution says what it says because the drafters were brighter than most of the political hacks that came after them. They knew divided loyalty was no loyalty which is why I take issue with Jewish supporters of Israel as well. I think the Democrat party was so anxious to stick the feather of a black president in their party’s cap that they didn’t care whether he was qualified. Of all the black Americans who are natural born Americans, how come the only one they could find who is (clean and articulate [Biden’s words]” is not a natural born American?
37 Coming on the back of the LP // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:35 am
Which superpower is Obama suppose to betray us to? How about the 100,000,000 (10 percent of a billion) Islamic fundamentalists roaming the globe of which he is probably one?
LOL @ moron
38 Libertarian Joseph // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:42 am
You’re the moron, Coming on the back of the LP. You should try coming up with a better debating style than calling people names.
39 Coming on the back of the LP // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:43 am
It’s an apt description for anyone who thinks (although that is probably the wrong word to use) that Obama is a Muslim.
By the way, calling people names is about all you ever do.
40 Libertarian Joseph // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:47 am
Anyway, I’m more concerned with socialist fundamentalists (the cult of Marx) than I am of Islamic fundamentalists. I’m even more concerned with AIPAC. They’re definately not looking out for my rights.
41 Libertarian Joseph // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:51 am
Every religion is pretty evil, though. Kinda promotes illogical thoughts, mysticism. Do you know why neocons are so ignorant? For the same reason why they’re christians. One stupdity leads to another…
42 Libertarian Joseph // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:52 am
stupidity* heh. But yea, it makes sense. They are susceptible to ignorance
43 Comrade Laissez-Faire // Jan 10, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I’m disappointed to know that Gail Lightfoot is among those former principled Libertarians that has sold out to the paleoconservative takeover of the LP in the way of challenging Obama’s citizenship, which has converted the LP into “The Former Party of Principle”. Paul, Barr, and Root and the rest of the paleocon vermon can all go to hell.
44 Libertarian Joseph // Jan 10, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Comrade, fight them, don’t just leave.
45 ele // Jan 10, 2009 at 3:21 pm
No one is above the law. Except if you are one of the selected noblity.
46 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 10, 2009 at 4:21 pm
I don’t understand how Gail Lightfoot is selling out principle by taking a principled stand about the constitutional requirement regarding natural born citizenship.
If Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen, which I think his USA citizen birth mother and his place of birth Hawai’i probably establishes, great. Then he’ll have one of those things, a Hawai’i birth certificate. Case closed.
If he’s not, then he isn’t constitutionally qualified to hold office. If he then takes office, that would be a meaningful violation of the constitution. Since the constitution has been powerless to protect us from tyranny, or since it has authorized all the tyranny under which we suffer (hat tip to Lysander Spooner, writing circa 1874) then we might as well give up the illusion that it is meaningful.
But how does Gail Lightfoot filing a suit, having standing as a registered candidate for vice president, represent her selling out to paleo-conservatives? Indeed, how would it be selling out to say that any part of the constitution were important? What if she said the Second Amendment were being violated, would that constitute a paleo-con sell out maneuver?
47 Spike // Jan 10, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Enough everyone. The point: Show us the birth certificate. Period. What is the big deal? I have had to show my birth certificate for nearly every job I’ve had, and the freaking president should not make such a big deal out of a simple friggin’ procedure. Which begs the question: If there is nothing to hide, why has Obama hired so many lawyers and spent so much cash keeping these cases out of court? Why allow the question to fester in the first place? Why not just show the birth certificate and shut everyone up? And to be fair, for all of the folks out there whining ‘racism,’ make all of the candidates show their birth certificates. Case closed.
48 Dave Weigel // Jan 10, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Why has Obama hired so many lawyers and spent so much cash keeping these cases out of court?
Ugh, this is such a stupid talking point. The Obama campaign (and then the transition team) retained numerous lawyers for tasks like vetting the VP possibilities and voter registration/campaign finance litigation. In addition, they’ve filed for dismissal of various Obama conspiracy lawsuits. That isn’t a big part of their job – in writing about these conspiracy theories I’ve read a lot of the conspiracy lawsuits, which are treasure troves of sloppy writing and inadmissible rumors or lies (like the frequent assertions that “Obama’s grandmother has said she was at the hospital in Kenya when he was born” or that “document experts have proven that the COLB is forged.”
The Obama lawyers don’t spend a lot of time knocking this stuff down. It’s really child’s play.
And I’d ask again – why does Barack Obama have to show you his birth certificate when George W. Bush never did? Is it because his father was Kenyan? Because Ann Dunham Obama did not leave Hawaii during her pregnancy, and she did not go to Kenya while she was married to Barack Obama, Sr. (I’m not sure if she went there in her later life, when she was a nomadic do-gooder.)
49 Steven Druckenmiller // Jan 10, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Spike – he’s shown the certificate. There are pictures of it everywhere.
50 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 10, 2009 at 9:12 pm
So, simple. He shows the original document in court, case closed.
Why use routine legal arguments to have such cases dismissed? Because it is good legal practice to do so. The adversarial process assumes that judges are going to be asked to dismiss cases where there are grounds for dismissal. There’s no conspiracy to a motion to dismiss.
Lightfoot has standing. So, the case cannot be dismissed on those grounds. Maybe it’ll get to discovery. At which point a bona fide birth certificate can be shown, and the case is closed.
Obviously, a picture of a birth certificate isn’t a birth certificate. But, if this case, or any of these cases, proceeds to the point of actual discovery, then an actual birth certificate would be entered into evidence. At which point the case should be moved for dismissal by the plaintiff.
Which ought to be wrapped up pretty as you please by the 20th, one would think.
51 Eric Dondero // Jan 10, 2009 at 10:11 pm
The fact that Gail Lightfoot is such a longtime well-established Libertarian Party member makes this newsworthy. As important as the lawsuit is, even more important imho, is that this shows Libertarians are turning on Obama and the Fascist Democrats.
Just two days earlier, LP Chair Bill Redpath penned an article blasting Obama on his Marxist economic policies.
I’m sensing this all over, Libertarians starting to turn on Obama, whereas they were previously so so on the guy.
This is a positive trend, and I’m sure it will continue the more and more he’s exposed for the fraud that he is.
52 Andy // Jan 10, 2009 at 10:43 pm
“Eric Dondero // Jan 10, 2009 at 10:11 pm
The fact that Gail Lightfoot is such a longtime well-established Libertarian Party member makes this newsworthy. As important as the lawsuit is, even more important imho, is that this shows Libertarians are turning on Obama and the Fascist Democrats.”
Real Libertarians never supported Obama or the Democrats in the first place.
53 David A // Jan 10, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Spike, way to cut through al th BS and get to the simple question, Why hide it if you have nothing to hide.
Dave W. thankyou for all the insights, next time I forget to bring a BC for my kid to first day of little league I’ll see if they work.
Mentored by Ayers, Davis, S.A. Dunham, Wright, and were concerned about betrayal from outside our borders. Wake up !
Congrats to our self -vetted illegal allien pres. elect BO
54 Eric Dondero // Jan 11, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Yes, of course Andy. But there were some faux “Libertarians” who did. Didn’t you see all the “Libertarians for Obama” websites and blogs that popped up around September?
No doubt, a Soros funded operation.
55 Rolf Lindgren // Jan 11, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Richard;
The natural born citzen clause is very important. At some time in the future, whether 50 years from now or 200 years, it is likely that the United States will be invaded by a power greater than our own. For example, suppose in 2060, China invaded and occupied parts of the USA.
In that case, the Constitution would protect us from a Chinese dictator being installed as president. Instead, they would have to try to find a domestic puppet, which is much less efficient.
56 Ted // Jan 11, 2009 at 3:40 pm
The nation owes more than thanks to three unlikely modern day patriots: professional poker player, musician, and retired attorney, Leo Donofrio; life long Democrat and former Pennsylvania assistant attorney general, Phil Berg; and Soviet emigree and attorney, Dr. Orly Taitz (she’s also a dentist).
While Mr. Donofrio painstakingly established the airtight case that BHO could not be an Article II “natural born citizen” (at BHO’s birth, dad was British/Kenyan, not American, citizen) Leo’s Stay of the 12/15/08 electoral college vote was denied by SCOTUS as procedurally unripe.
Nevertheless, since no congressman and senator objected on 1/8/09 to Congress’ count and certification of the electoral vote which would have turned resolution of Obama’s eligibility issue over to Congress — rendering moot the Berg and Taitz (Lightfoot) cases — Berg finally does achieve standing on the issue of actual harm, to be addressed at the Friday 1/9/09 SCOTUS Conference on Writ of Certiorari. Obama’s failure to submit evidence of his constitutional qualification for the 1/9/09 conference will mean he cannot thereafter challenge Berg’s request to enjoin the 1/8/09 Congressional electoral count and certification, albeit retroactive, scheduled for SCOTUS conference Friday 1/16/09. Moreover, Chief Justice Roberts has scheduled a full Court conference on the Lightfoot case Friday 1/23/09 in the event there needs to be a Constitutionally mandated action, the Inauguration itself, to enjoin retroactively.
Now that BHO is in checkmate and cannot be POTUS, he can be a patriot as well. He need not subject the nation to the expense and trauma of requiring SCOTUS to overrule his ‘Presidency’. BHO can and should voluntarily step down with Biden becoming Acting POTUS under the 20th Amendment, and under the agreement all potential claims by the Government for itself and on behalf of others against BHO are released.
57 paulie cannoli // Jan 11, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Oh, please. These lawsuits will get nowhere.
58 Rolf Lindgren // Jan 11, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Dave;
The lawsuit is very unlikely to succeed.
However, Gail Lightfoot is helping to raise awareness of the United States Constitution.
The fact that people here & elsewhere are reading & posting comments about the Lightfoot lawsuit, proves it.
59 Comrade Laissez-Faire // Jan 11, 2009 at 6:16 pm
“44Libertarian Joseph // Jan 10, 2009 :
Comrade, fight them, don’t just leave.”
Joseph, when LP National used to charge dues for membership, I never-renewed again after that year the National Committee stupidly decided to ride on the coattails of the Theopublicans by calling for the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Although National’s reason for impeachment was different from that of the Kenneth Starr-led witch hunt, it nevertheless threw the LP into the political left-right spectrum and made it look like the LP likes to rub elbows with the Republicans because the LP thinks they’re the lesser of two evils, which was nothing new on some regional levels prior to that. There are local Libertarian Party’s around the country that to this day will deliberately not run a Libertarian in certain races that have Republican candidates who pass the libertarian litmus test on taxation and economics, even though they may be terrible otherwise on social liberties and foreign policy.
Obama was born to a natural U.S.-born citizen mother in Hawaii and his legitimate birth certificate is posted on YouTube and the web for the world to see. Any other nationalization he might have received as a minor is moot.
Paleoconservatives, who consider Theopublicans the lesser of two evils over Demosocialists like Obama, like to salivate over right-wing conspiracy garbage like Obama’s birth and citizenship, which is why they haven’t even an eyebrow over Panamanian-born John McCain not being a natural-born citizen.
Gail Lightfoot has just moved the (former) “Libertarian” Party further rightward into the paleocon gutter.
60 Rolf Lindgren // Jan 11, 2009 at 8:48 pm
The founding fathers put the “natural born citizen” clause into the Constitution because they feared foreign meddling. It looks as if they hit the nail on the head again, as Obama, a foreign born Kenyan, is also a member of the Bilderberg Group.
61 Lister // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:21 am
The only thing that Berg and individuals, etc want to see is a real actual birth certificate. That’s all.
Now when everybody gets a job these days you have to prove you’re a citizen. Now if a fast food has to then why doesn’t the Prez-elect have to ?
………………… or is he better than everybody ?
This to Everett Mann. Next time you see some looking mean at you just open your wallet up and give your money. This because, I for one will not be threaten by riots if something doesn’t go their way.
62 Andy // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:28 am
“paulie cannoli // Jan 11, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Oh, please. These lawsuits will get nowhere.”
You are probably right that the law suits won’t go anywhere, but I still think that they should be filed just to make a point.
“Rolf Lindgren // Jan 11, 2009 at 8:48 pm
The founding fathers put the ‘natural born citizen’ clause into the Constitution because they feared foreign meddling. It looks as if they hit the nail on the head again, as Obama, a foreign born Kenyan, is also a member of the Bilderberg Group.”
I agree. As long as we are going to have a government it is good to have that provision in there.
63 Andy // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:30 am
“I never-renewed again after that year the National Committee stupidly decided to ride on the coattails of the Theopublicans by calling for the impeachment of Bill Clinton.”
The LNC passing a resolution to call for the impeachment of Bill Clinton was a great move. It made me proud to be a member of the Libertarian Party.
I’m just SUPER DISAPPOINTED that the LNC has never passed an impeachment resolution against George W. Bush. The fact that they have not not this is just disgraceful in my opinion.
64 Steven R Linnabary // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:34 am
Now when everybody gets a job these days you have to prove you’re a citizen.
I have NEVER had to show a birth certificate for any job I’ve ever had, except for the USMC almost forty years ago. Even when I went into VISTA thirty years ago, I needed NO identification.
I change companies every two-three years, and my work takes me to airports, nuclear power plants and WW treatment plants all over the country.
But then, maybe I’m better than everybody.
PEACE
65 Andy // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:37 am
“Eric Dondero // Jan 11, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Yes, of course Andy. But there were some faux ‘Libertarians’ who did. Didn’t you see all the ‘Libertarians for Obama’ websites and blogs that popped up around September?
No doubt, a Soros funded operation.”
I do remember hearing something about a “Libertarians for Obama” but I never actually saw the sites. Libertarians for Obama is basically an oxymoron since Obama is about as far from being a Libertarian as one can get.
This kind of reminds me of that guy who started “Libertarians for Bush” and “Libertarians for Lieberman” and “Libertarians for Giuliani,” none of whom are even remotely libertarian. What was his name again? Oh yeah, I think that his name was spelled E-R-I-C D-O-N-D-E-R-O.
66 Steven R Linnabary // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:40 am
The LNC passing a resolution to call for the impeachment of Bill Clinton was a great move. It made me proud to be a member of the Libertarian Party.
Klinton SHOULD have been impeached. But probably not for lying on his deposition.
In Klinton’s first month in office, he unilaterally gave $50 billion to the puppet regime in Mexico. This was clearly unconstitutional, and cause for impeachment.
PEACE
67 sunshinebatman // Jan 12, 2009 at 2:43 am
re 11 Obama’s mother never went to Kenya.
Weigel, how do you know this? Did you investigate this? Or are you just taking the Obama camp’s word for this? Have you ever investigated any politician? Besides Ron Paul?
(She was 18! And not rich!
If the banking Dunham family was soooo poor, how is it Stanley Anne’s 1980 divorce filing says she had two live-in domestics? )
68 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:42 am
Does anyone remember seeing her on the plane, at the airport, etc?
69 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:43 am
I’m just SUPER DISAPPOINTED that the LNC has never passed an impeachment resolution against George W. Bush. The fact that they have not not this is just disgraceful in my opinion.
Very true.
The party still needs to call for criminal prosecutions and war crimes trials for the Bush gang. Act now to mobilize resistance to Obama issuing them any pardons.
70 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:45 am
The only thing that Berg and individuals, etc want to see is a real actual birth certificate. That’s all.
71 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:46 am
I have NEVER had to show a birth certificate for any job I’ve ever had,
Me neither. Good thing too, since I would have no way of getting one.
72 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:47 am
The founding fathers put the “natural born citizen” clause into the Constitution because they feared foreign meddling. It looks as if they hit the nail on the head again, as Obama, a foreign born Kenyan, is also a member of the Bilderberg Group.
You forgot that he is a shape-shifting Zionist reptile from outer space, and monkeys fly out of his ass.
73 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:50 am
You are probably right that the law suits won’t go anywhere, but I still think that they should be filed just to make a point.
My point was in response to Ted (#56). The idea that these lawsuits stand any chance, even if the flight to Kenya was actually true, is silly. It just ain’t happening.
74 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:51 am
The natural born citzen clause is very important. At some time in the future, whether 50 years from now or 200 years, it is likely that the United States will be invaded by a power greater than our own. For example, suppose in 2060, China invaded and occupied parts of the USA.
In that case, the Constitution would protect us from a Chinese dictator being installed as president. Instead, they would have to try to find a domestic puppet, which is much less efficient.
Yes, the Chinese will invade the US, but they will keep the Constitution in place. Of course.
75 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:54 am
Obviously, a picture of a birth certificate isn’t a birth certificate.
Technically, it’s a picture of a COLB, not quite the actual birth certificate.
Why won’t Obama show it? Because no one is going to make him.
76 Libertarian Joseph // Jan 12, 2009 at 10:50 am
What does it matter if the LNC passes an impeachment resolution for Bush & co.? Noone pays attention to the LP.
77 DC // Jan 12, 2009 at 12:13 pm
This was already turned down once and then Lightfoot resubmitted to Js. Roberts. Justice Roberts has not really done anything but make it certian that this will end on 1/23/2009.
Berg – just denied on Friday – did the samething three times before getting wiped in the conference.
Dorofrio also got turned down by one judge and went to a second – and then got denied. Lightfootgot denied by the first judge as well, and will get denied cert on the 23rd.
Dream on.
78 gaetano // Jan 12, 2009 at 12:24 pm
well its jan.12,and nothing from the big wigs at the SCOTUS,but no news is good news,so they say. So i`ll just comment on something while I wait.Lets see,oh yea, I know,you idiots that keep trying to tell every one just to get over the fact that obamma will be president on jan.20,and that all of us repubs are poor losers,WELL what about all you rasist rats out there that have been bitching for 200 years,about equal rights.Its my turn to fight for what I think is right.I believe obamma is a pig, a fraud, a con man,and a terrorist and that is my right to do something about it. If you don`t like it,tuff SH%%.
79 gaetano // Jan 12, 2009 at 12:31 pm
another thing,why doesn`t obamma take over this country like all the other presidents did.they all had a crisis of somekind to fight .Now mr.obamma has ask congress to give him a trillion dallares to get started on because of what MR.BUSH left us with.Maybe you should think about what giggalo clitton left Bush with,A DAMN TERRORIST ATTACK. that sure is a big change !!!!!!!!!!
80 paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Let me guess, English as a non-primary language?
81 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 12, 2009 at 5:48 pm
What happened in September that might have caused a bunch of libertarians to spontaneously put up “libertarian for Obama” web sites? Oh, yeah, snubgate.
Somehow, I think the incompetence of Shane Cory telling Ron Paul’s guy to go fuck himself is a simpler explanation than the malice of George Soros paying a bunch of people to put up false front web sites.
82 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Rolf, I could not stop rolling on the floor laughing about China taking over the entire country, occupying it, and worrying about a constitutional limitation on who can be president.
Steven, you are better than everyone else. Gracious of you to let us know. -grin-
How is it an airtight case if only the nationality of the father is mentioned? The nationality of the mother also figures prominently in the matter, as does the place of birth. At the time the constitution was adopted, a great many men who were eligible to become president were not naturally born to USA citizen parents in the territory of the USA. Somehow, the country got through that difficulty.
I am rather sheepish in supposing that George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, John Quincy Adams, and others were adequate presidents in spite of neither having USA citizen parents nor being born within the territory of the USA (at the time of their births).
Indeed, and I know this is going to scare some of you, I have heard that Thomas Jefferson was born a subject of the United Kingdom of Great Britain! Shocking.
83 Andy // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:15 pm
“Prospective Advertiser // Jan 12, 2009 at 5:48 pm
What happened in September that might have caused a bunch of libertarians to spontaneously put up ‘libertarian for Obama’ web sites? Oh, yeah, snubgate.
Somehow, I think the incompetence of Shane Cory telling Ron Paul’s guy to go fuck himself is a simpler explanation than the malice of George Soros paying a bunch of people to put up false front web sites.”
Being pissed about snubgate does not justifiy voting for Barrack Obama.
84 George Phillies // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Prospective Advertiser: That’s why the Constitution has the other rule on citizenship, the one that has not recently applied to most people, say people born after 1776 and 1788.
The right wing claim that Obama is not a native born citizen reflects nothing but the number of fruitcakes who have attached themselves to part of the political right.
85 Jasper James // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Normally, the fact that a Presidential Candidate is certified by either the DNC, RNC, or LNC is probably sufficient. However when some doubts were raised about that certification – it seems that it is appropriate that some official body should have taken the time to do an appropriate investigation of Obama’s qualifications. It was not really that big of a deal to have double checked his BC instead of his COLB. It is disturbing that NO SOS double checked the eligiblity of any Candidate. When people raised concerns about any of the Candidates eligibilty, I think it is only appropriate that a reasonable level of investigation should have occured. That is what the Vetting process is all about. If documents (BC, Passports, College Records, etc) are not provided either to the Citizens or to an appropriate body or agency for verification – then we will always have some questions lingering over the validitiy of the election and the candidate. That’s not a proper way to run an election! It should be completly above board and not run like a joke. Obama-supporter need to think hard if they would be making the same remarks if a Right Winger ran and won and suppressed his BC and other documentation. Think about that!
86 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Jasper your sincere desire for elections that are not jokes is a pleasant thing, but there are far more things wrong with the election process than you identify. In addition to validating the eligibility of candidates, we might also want the secretaries of states to actually count the votes, especially the write-in ballots which really express disaffected voters. Instead, we see widespread evidence of vote fraud and refusal to “bother with” write-in votes.
The process is a joke. You can be sad about it, or you can giggle at it. I suggest chortling, or at least smiling.
87 sunshinebatman // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Ok, good. We now know that
a) George Phillies doesn’t know the difference between “native-born” and “natural-born.”
b) Phillies is just as chickenshit as Barr, Root, and Paul in refusing to use his standing as a candidate on a Presidential ticket(*) to do anything about the illegal election of Barry.
Ventura/Lightfoot 2012!
(* Hon. Dr. St. Ron Paul was also too chickenshit to object at the counting of the votes in the Congress… apparently he didn’t even attend, presumably not to dirty hishands any further in the matter.)
88 Jasper James // Jan 12, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I don’t think as some have suggested that the Obama BC issues is a 47 year conspiracy. Instead it may well be something more simple than that, like a Mother wishing to have her newborn babies birth registered (in Hawaii), and once done – a birth announcement automatically went out to a local newspaper. But where baby Obama was actually born is not clear without a little more investigation than was done. Lax rules regarding the registration of baby Obama’s birth and a COLB that does not specify a hospital, doctor or witness for some reason have created the current confusion over where baby Obama was born. The COLB was probably sufficient for everything Obama has applied for so far, but as a presidential candidate – it is not enough. The statement that his father’s race is African seems like either ignorance on the part of Mother or Father or an attempt to hide baby Obama’s actual race by someone in 1961. That just adds to the suspicion that something is wrong with the BC or COLB. As a public figure Obama’s got a lot to learn…. His actions are that of an immature politician, and well that is what he is.
89 sunshinebatman // Jan 12, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Jasper is on the right track. 17-yr-old Anne’s babydaddy was Frank Marshall Davis, a friend of the Dunham family and known Communist under investigation by the FBI (and previously HUAC). That was the driving force for the sequence of the events around Anne’s travels and the various legal filings and papers until about 1971, when the FBI suspended their investigation of Frank Marshall Davis. The original vital records would have all the changes and initialings and attachments presented to the (easily-bought) family courts through the years. Unfortunately, they were likely swapped out when the power went out on Oahu over Christmas. (cf actual frequency of lightning storms in Oahu – ie never).
The oral tradition in Kenya is the most accurate record now, but Obama’s enlightened post-racial voters know better than those savages, no diggety. Hail Amerika.
90 Prospective Advertiser // Jan 12, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Wow, an actual conspiracy theory. I like the part where we have to trust the House unAmerican affairs committee, and distrust Barry because someone his mother might have known pretty well was a communist, or might have been a communist. Yes, it’s the Red Scare! Brought to you by white bread sandwiches, the sandwich bread that melts in your mouth.
91 sunshinebatman // Jan 13, 2009 at 12:13 am
Aw, you can still trust Barry if you want. Just think of the saintly motives of all those class acts who raised him – they only did it to protect the Messiah!
(And you don’t have to trust HUAC or FBI, either… just know that there were active investigations going on… you can look up the documents yourself… the NAACP story is fun.)
92 Bob // Jan 14, 2009 at 8:51 am
Prospective adviteser, you make the point that those founding fathers were NOT “natural born citizens” WHICH IS PRECISELY THE POINT OF ARTICLE II GRANDFATHERING THEM AS NOT NEEDING TO BE “NATURAL BORN CITIZENS” as being living at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, but that for all future Presidents, under Article II, they MUST BE “natural born citizens”. Article II precisely sets up those two categories to be eligible to be President: (1) “citizens” alive when the Constitution was adopted and (2) “natural born citizens”.
93 BUM CAT // Jan 16, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Idiots! Blah, blah, blah, damn right wingers, blah, blah, damn republicans! Get your crap together people! Obama is a god damn fraud with no credentials and he’s going to get away with it, right wingers, republicans or anyone else be dammed!! Voter sucker morons did it!
94 paulie cannoli // Jan 16, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Thanks for sharing.
95 Natural Born Citizen // Jan 16, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Words and meanings change.
There is no evidence that Obama was born by the “Caesarean” method, therefore he is a “Natural Born” citizen.
Hope that settles the matter.
96 paulie cannoli // Jan 16, 2009 at 2:38 pm
lol
97 Kerry Wilson // Jan 17, 2009 at 7:36 pm
What does Obama have to Hide…… the problem is Obama has ALL USA MEDIA in his back pocket. When this came up before the election and the DEMS defneded it and PROLONGED IT … they KNEW if he would get ELECTED NO ONE would touch this with a 10′ Pole.
Now, everyone who QUESTIONS is HUSED UP… Keep QUITE….. Don’t ASK …. Don’t Tell…
But heck, I would hate to see Biden as the President now…
98 paulie cannoli // Jan 17, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Don’t worry, you won’t. At least not because of this, at any rate.
99 Kerry Wilson // Jan 17, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Also, Have you NOTED the picture where Obama WILL NOT Pledge to the USA Flag…. makes you wonder what is in his head. I belive this behavior is EXACTLY what our Framers were thinking when it came to being a US BORN CITIZEN… obviously, Obama has issues with his TRUE ALLEGANCE….. that one pictre with everyone with their hands over their heart…. EXCEPT OBAMA… it TELLS it all.
No TRUE allegience to the USA.
100 Steven Druckenmiller // Jan 17, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Everyone KNOWS that CAPITAL LETTERS are CRUISE CONTROL for AWESOME and a more TRUE AND CORRECT argument.
101 Kerry Wilson // Jan 17, 2009 at 7:45 pm
So the BIG Answer from ALL Supreme Court members are…. THE VOTERS HAVE SPOKEN… now SHUT UP.
Sad……….
102 paulie cannoli // Jan 17, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Also, Have you NOTED the picture where Obama WILL NOT Pledge to the USA Flag….
If only we were so lucky.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Scroll down. This claim, like much else of the trash that floats around, is completely false, and idiotic.
However, I would have a lot more respect for him if he really did refuse to pledge allegiance to the flag:
http://rexcurry.net/
103 paulie cannoli // Jan 17, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Everyone KNOWS that CAPITAL LETTERS are CRUISE CONTROL for AWESOME and a more TRUE AND CORRECT argument.
ONLY MORE SO if FOLLOWED by LOT’S and LOT’S of GRaMMARATiCAL and SPELLING EROS, TYPE O’s and EXCLAMATION POINT’s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For Bonus points you must include MUSLIMS and JOOOOZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
104 stepfanie // Jan 18, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Who really cares who the president is anyway? He is more like a figure head. And besides, when was the last time that our government was able to put it’s differences aside and actually did anything that improved american lives? I can’t think of any can you? Seems to me the only thing they have been bi-partisan about was stealing all our tax dollars out from under us and giving it to the elite. Oh, and scaring the hell out of everyone of course! Should the constitution be upheld, definately, does any of this really help the country, not really, it has the potential to turn it into a third world country!
105 Robert Capozzi // Jan 18, 2009 at 5:11 pm
RW: If Obama were proved to be ineligible, there is nothing to stop the USA from repealing that part of Article II about “natural-born”.
Me: I’m no lawyer, but wouldn’t that be an ex post facto law? At the moment, I’d prefer Obama to Biden.
106 WILLB // Jan 20, 2009 at 12:40 pm
By the mere fact that Obama’s unwillingness to supply a certified copy of his birth certificate to become the most powerful person in the world, it is a fallacy of justice. We provide more information to sign our kids up to little league soccer. THINK PEOPLE! The law is the law. The current constitution is in effect as it is and the one most important person that is sworn to uphold the constitution is breaking the constitution. THINK PEOPLE. What content of character is this and what else will he do. No one is above the law and this 1 of many corrupt acts that he and the demorat party has done. Where is the guts of the conservatives & republican pansies? No one is serving the people. The politicians serve themselves & the media & celebrities glorify them.
107 Jill // Mar 18, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Orly Taitz is an AIPAC delegate. Now what would the big picture be?http://www.washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=4952&TM=86380.5
108 Greg // Apr 14, 2009 at 10:52 am
Filing law suits seems to me what the extreme version of Libertarian thought would leave people with. I have argued this point with some old libertarians who wanted alot less laws being passed. Back then the argument was about an explosion in government planing in the form of zoning. The argument they had was that common law has a remedy through the court as nuisance litigation. They were right it does.
So I see these libertarians using the court to redress harms they see through the courts as simply consistent with the ends of libertarian thought.
I also see nothing wrong with it. But I also, as a conservative, see nothing wrong with protecting grandma, who cant afford a lawyer from that 10,000 hog confined feeding operation being 200 feet from her front door.
Soooo…. we have the constitution (zoning), we have grandma (me), so who is going to litigate this question, because the government (zoning board) didnt do it! I am more than happy that there is someone out there with a few buck to ask the question and help grandma and sue the 10,000 hog confined feeding operation (Obama)!!!
109 Marianne // Apr 23, 2009 at 7:06 pm
When we get judges that uphold the WE THE PEOPLE and make Obama show he quailfies then the lawsuits will stop.
I saw on the internet that Obama has a press in canada and an old typewriter that is going to give him a long copy BC. Hopesomeone checks the ink. I want to see his documents also.
110 Jim Davidson // Apr 23, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Greg, the point of this particular lawsuit is to enforce the limits of governmental power. I don’t particularly object to the birth certificate from Hawai’i that has been shown on various web pages. But I do agree with holding the government and its officers to all of the limitations of the constitution.
It is a daunting task. I think it is unlikely to ever happen in a complete and thorough way. And even if the government were held to all the limits in the constitution, there would still be far too much government crap in far too many areas of life.
But, as long as we are here, in the midst of tyranny, and we seek to go there, toward more freedom, reducing the size and scope of government to only those things explicitly permitted in the constitution is a good place to start.
If there were a contract between you and another party, and they tried to abuse your rights and privileges under the contract, you would object, right? And if taking them to court were the only way to get any relief, you’d at least think about doing so, right?
111 TJ // Jul 16, 2009 at 9:57 am
The big difference between conservatives (not neocons and not republicans) and liberals is that liberals always have an excuse for their own while blowing up anything the other side does into a monstronsity. I don’t need to defend this, the differences in the coverage of current stories about 50 blacks attacking one white family and a country club refunding the money to a group of blacks is proof enough. No matter what a liberal does, no matter how scummy and immoral there is a reasonable explanation, because as long as they are behind pushing an anti western agenda they are good liberals. BUT when the shoe is on the other foot, and a conservative speaks his mind we have a crime against humanity itself.
We have a person acting as Commander in Chief whose citizenship has not been proven. It is things like this which have brought down whole nations historically, and this ass ‘Richard Winger’ spouts the same liberal ideology; don’t obey the law, if it doesn’t suit our needs we will just change it while we are breaking it.
One day I will be in power and I will just change the law to make it alright for me to kill anyone who disagrees with me, after I have killed a few hundred people. How would that sound, Richard?
112 paulie // Jul 16, 2009 at 10:04 am
TJ, why the euphemisms (“conservative,” “western”)? Say what you really mean. You’re obviously a racist (“racialist” if you prefer, a distinction without a difference). I’m sure you know Lane’s “14 words” by heart and there is a pretty good chance that there are pictures of you with a swastika and/or burning cross floating around somewhere.
As for Richard Winger or myself, we are not liberals, at least in any modern use of the term.
113 Paul // Jul 23, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Orly Taitz, from Orange, CA, sounds like Arnold Schwarzenegger and acts like Sarah Palin. Now I know what the mean when they say “behind the Orange Curtain”, when they talk about Orange County, the captial of Conspiracy Theories. Oh well…
114 gaetano // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:48 am
For one,Obama nor anyone has given the answer as to why so much money was spent to fight aginst showing his birth certificate.And also ,If he is found to be a userper,he would be dismissed and so would Joe biden because any thing obama does as a userper is dismissed,including choosing biden,as running mate.Nancy oelosy would take temporary charge and a new election would tak place.
115 libertariangirl // Aug 20, 2009 at 10:01 am
can anyone say NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
116 paulie // Aug 21, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Yep
117 Peter Orvetti // Aug 21, 2009 at 3:23 pm
This is a pretty good “Ok, what if it were true?” piece.
http://www.slate.com/id/2224167/
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