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	<title>Comments on: Christina Tobin: &#8216;Third Party debates: what happened&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/</link>
	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:06:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Scott Lindsley</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-89724</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Lindsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-89724</guid>
		<description>As State Chair of the Washington Libertarian Party during this debacle the Barr campaign was hard to contact and even harder to understand. 

We had invitations to a debate and several critical press conferences that Mr Barr chose to skip. Showing the same type of closed minded rhetoric that keeps Libertarians out of the two party debates (and press), Mr Barr refused to share the stage with other parties (as in the Ron Paul endorsement), thinking that would somehow diminish his position.

He opted for no press instead of a humble and COMPETITIVE environment.

He did not shake my resolve to support Libertarians, but he sure turned many away from the Libertarian party with his actions.

I won&#039;t dispute that he acted on principle, but rather his principle reflected the current textbook republican/democrat exclusionary tactics instead of what citizens (Libertarians especially) needed. Dare I say what we the people deserve, but fail to demand, year after year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As State Chair of the Washington Libertarian Party during this debacle the Barr campaign was hard to contact and even harder to understand. </p>
<p>We had invitations to a debate and several critical press conferences that Mr Barr chose to skip. Showing the same type of closed minded rhetoric that keeps Libertarians out of the two party debates (and press), Mr Barr refused to share the stage with other parties (as in the Ron Paul endorsement), thinking that would somehow diminish his position.</p>
<p>He opted for no press instead of a humble and COMPETITIVE environment.</p>
<p>He did not shake my resolve to support Libertarians, but he sure turned many away from the Libertarian party with his actions.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t dispute that he acted on principle, but rather his principle reflected the current textbook republican/democrat exclusionary tactics instead of what citizens (Libertarians especially) needed. Dare I say what we the people deserve, but fail to demand, year after year.</p>
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		<title>By: JordanRomanus</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-33079</link>
		<dc:creator>JordanRomanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-33079</guid>
		<description>You can dispute Christina&#039;s credibility as much as you want, but you cannot dispute the general theme. The fact is, Barr and McKinney had the opportunity to show off their positions/party but they chose not to.  How can you even begin to justify such cowardly actions?  McKinney should participate in the debate whether it is a &#039;Nader Debate&#039; or not. Honestly, how biased could it be? Even if it is extremely biased, believe it or not Nader and McKinney share many important positions, so actually it would play in her favor.  And furthermore lets not kid ourselves on Barr- he is a republican in libertarian clothes. Can we really expect anything decent out of him? 

Listen, we can either split hairs all day or we can face up to reality.  Barr and McKinney are making wimpy excuses, and that is the last thing third parties need to do.  Call me crazy, but I am pretty sure the ballot access laws and the media do a good enough job at suppressing the third party voice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can dispute Christina&#8217;s credibility as much as you want, but you cannot dispute the general theme. The fact is, Barr and McKinney had the opportunity to show off their positions/party but they chose not to.  How can you even begin to justify such cowardly actions?  McKinney should participate in the debate whether it is a &#8216;Nader Debate&#8217; or not. Honestly, how biased could it be? Even if it is extremely biased, believe it or not Nader and McKinney share many important positions, so actually it would play in her favor.  And furthermore lets not kid ourselves on Barr- he is a republican in libertarian clothes. Can we really expect anything decent out of him? </p>
<p>Listen, we can either split hairs all day or we can face up to reality.  Barr and McKinney are making wimpy excuses, and that is the last thing third parties need to do.  Call me crazy, but I am pretty sure the ballot access laws and the media do a good enough job at suppressing the third party voice.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-29291</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-29291</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a mystery to me. On the one hand, I hear the same thing from Greens, LPers and CPers, and the CP especially makes me wonder, because Tobin praises them. And yet nobody gives me specifics. I&#039;m not saying anybody is obligated to - that is just all the info I have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a mystery to me. On the one hand, I hear the same thing from Greens, LPers and CPers, and the CP especially makes me wonder, because Tobin praises them. And yet nobody gives me specifics. I&#8217;m not saying anybody is obligated to &#8211; that is just all the info I have.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-29289</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-29289</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s interesting that 55555 chose to remain anonymous and just offered some vague details.  Like you said, Paulie, Tobin has been the only one to offer a story with any substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting that 55555 chose to remain anonymous and just offered some vague details.  Like you said, Paulie, Tobin has been the only one to offer a story with any substance.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-29281</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-29281</guid>
		<description>I keep hearing the same thing from multiple sources in different parties, yet no one has sent IPR any specifics - even anonymously - challenging her account&#039;s specifics. I&#039;d be eager to hear other sides of the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep hearing the same thing from multiple sources in different parties, yet no one has sent IPR any specifics &#8211; even anonymously &#8211; challenging her account&#8217;s specifics. I&#8217;d be eager to hear other sides of the story.</p>
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		<title>By: 55555</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-29280</link>
		<dc:creator>55555</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-29280</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t take any of this article seriously.  The author is clearly only out to advance herself and her &quot;organization.&quot;  I particularly take issue with the fact that Ms. Tobin states &quot;After serving as the National Ballot Access coordinator for the Ralph Nader campaign, I took a leave of absence from the campaign.&quot; During this &quot;leave of absence,&quot; she worked exclusively out of the Nader campaign office, and drew heavily on the resources of the campaign to organize and put on the &quot;independent&quot; debates.  I am completely confident she will take any stance at any point in time for political expedience, and will only offer contributions to third party campaigns when she can be the sole recipient of credit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t take any of this article seriously.  The author is clearly only out to advance herself and her &#8220;organization.&#8221;  I particularly take issue with the fact that Ms. Tobin states &#8220;After serving as the National Ballot Access coordinator for the Ralph Nader campaign, I took a leave of absence from the campaign.&#8221; During this &#8220;leave of absence,&#8221; she worked exclusively out of the Nader campaign office, and drew heavily on the resources of the campaign to organize and put on the &#8220;independent&#8221; debates.  I am completely confident she will take any stance at any point in time for political expedience, and will only offer contributions to third party campaigns when she can be the sole recipient of credit.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-28640</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-28640</guid>
		<description>kaliplay is Baldwin/CP staff - she was at the debates and has knowledge of what she is talking about here, although I respect her decision if she does not want to provide details or hold off on it. 

Given that Tobin was very positive about Baldwin above, it gives extra weight to what kaliplay says. 

I&#039;ve heard the same thing from an LP staff person. I can&#039;t say who, and they have not provided details either. If/when we get a different side to the story, we&#039;ll air it, even if the source has to remain anonymous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kaliplay is Baldwin/CP staff &#8211; she was at the debates and has knowledge of what she is talking about here, although I respect her decision if she does not want to provide details or hold off on it. </p>
<p>Given that Tobin was very positive about Baldwin above, it gives extra weight to what kaliplay says. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard the same thing from an LP staff person. I can&#8217;t say who, and they have not provided details either. If/when we get a different side to the story, we&#8217;ll air it, even if the source has to remain anonymous.</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan Wick</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-28635</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan Wick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-28635</guid>
		<description>McKinney&#039;s behavior would be less douchebaggy, at least on one front, if it turned out she had the wrong e-mail (or &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; e-mail) from Free and Equal for whatever reason, and was blocking anything that wasn&#039;t from a set list of e-mail addresses.

It&#039;s possible she was trying to find a loophole for Bob &quot;seen on the same stage&quot; Barr to debate her by going with the debate without a stage. Of course I&#039;m just stretching there.

I&#039;m not going to defend anything Barr did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McKinney&#8217;s behavior would be less douchebaggy, at least on one front, if it turned out she had the wrong e-mail (or <i>no</i> e-mail) from Free and Equal for whatever reason, and was blocking anything that wasn&#8217;t from a set list of e-mail addresses.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible she was trying to find a loophole for Bob &#8220;seen on the same stage&#8221; Barr to debate her by going with the debate without a stage. Of course I&#8217;m just stretching there.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to defend anything Barr did.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-28479</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-28479</guid>
		<description>Kaliplay, 

Fair enough. It is up to you to decide whether to share your thoughts/recollections. If you do so, no hurry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaliplay, </p>
<p>Fair enough. It is up to you to decide whether to share your thoughts/recollections. If you do so, no hurry.</p>
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		<title>By: kalipay</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-28477</link>
		<dc:creator>kalipay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-28477</guid>
		<description>I was referring to the article posted, not any comments.  I do have specific objections, but 1) am not sure if they ought to be laid out here and 2) am too busy to get to them in the next few days.  Ms. Tobin&#039;s thoughts are obviously her perception of the issues, and yes, they were first-hand.  But conflicts are rarely ever merely one-sided, and there are those who could write about their dealings and issues with her.   However, I appreciate the summary of sorts that this gives: recaps are always good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was referring to the article posted, not any comments.  I do have specific objections, but 1) am not sure if they ought to be laid out here and 2) am too busy to get to them in the next few days.  Ms. Tobin&#8217;s thoughts are obviously her perception of the issues, and yes, they were first-hand.  But conflicts are rarely ever merely one-sided, and there are those who could write about their dealings and issues with her.   However, I appreciate the summary of sorts that this gives: recaps are always good.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-28021</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-28021</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This is a very one-sided presentation of â€œfactsâ€, or rather one personâ€™s opinion.&lt;/i&gt;

Just to make sure - you meant the editorial by Tobin, not my comment right above yours, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This is a very one-sided presentation of â€œfactsâ€, or rather one personâ€™s opinion.</i></p>
<p>Just to make sure &#8211; you meant the editorial by Tobin, not my comment right above yours, right?</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27963</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 04:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27963</guid>
		<description>If kaliplay or anyone else with &#039;inside knowledge&#039; wants to dispute any of Ms. Tobin&#039;s allegations, please go ahead and do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If kaliplay or anyone else with &#8216;inside knowledge&#8217; wants to dispute any of Ms. Tobin&#8217;s allegations, please go ahead and do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Austrian Economist</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27961</link>
		<dc:creator>Austrian Economist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 04:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27961</guid>
		<description>@4 kalipay:  Sounds as though Ms. Tobin was privy to what she says firsthand.  Do you have any specific objections or contentions, or are you simply making a broad reactionary dispute?  Otherwise, don&#039;t naysay for the sake of naysaying.  I&#039;m not remotely surprised by the farcically pathetic efforts (or counter-efforts) by Barr &amp; McKinney.

@6 ...McKinney is a douchebag in addition to being a kook.  It&#039;s a natural progression as more facts about the sheer ineptitude of her campaign come to light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@4 kalipay:  Sounds as though Ms. Tobin was privy to what she says firsthand.  Do you have any specific objections or contentions, or are you simply making a broad reactionary dispute?  Otherwise, don&#8217;t naysay for the sake of naysaying.  I&#8217;m not remotely surprised by the farcically pathetic efforts (or counter-efforts) by Barr &amp; McKinney.</p>
<p>@6 &#8230;McKinney is a douchebag in addition to being a kook.  It&#8217;s a natural progression as more facts about the sheer ineptitude of her campaign come to light.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Young</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27931</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27931</guid>
		<description>@1: No, but it is to some degree news that McKinney is also a douchebag, at least on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1: No, but it is to some degree news that McKinney is also a douchebag, at least on this site.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27925</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27925</guid>
		<description>Yes. I was hoping that would be obvious from the disclaimer &quot;an editorial by Christina Tobin&quot; and the title &quot;Christina Tobin: â€˜Third Party debates: what happenedâ€™&quot;

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. I was hoping that would be obvious from the disclaimer &#8220;an editorial by Christina Tobin&#8221; and the title &#8220;Christina Tobin: â€˜Third Party debates: what happenedâ€™&#8221;</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: kalipay</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27923</link>
		<dc:creator>kalipay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27923</guid>
		<description>This is a very one-sided presentation of &quot;facts&quot;, or rather one person&#039;s opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very one-sided presentation of &#8220;facts&#8221;, or rather one person&#8217;s opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: paulie cannoli</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27902</link>
		<dc:creator>paulie cannoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 20:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27902</guid>
		<description>I think the Barr campaign handled West Virginia, DC and Oklahoma, and the Barr campaign (not HQ) messed up Louisiana. 

However, Connecticut and Maine, several near-misses, and some poor management and spending decisions were all HQ (Haugh and Kohlhaas).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Barr campaign handled West Virginia, DC and Oklahoma, and the Barr campaign (not HQ) messed up Louisiana. </p>
<p>However, Connecticut and Maine, several near-misses, and some poor management and spending decisions were all HQ (Haugh and Kohlhaas).</p>
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		<title>By: TheOriginalAndy</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27901</link>
		<dc:creator>TheOriginalAndy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 20:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27901</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Barr campaign failed to gain ballot access in any state it attempted, while the states that were handled by the Libertarian Party itself were mostly successful.&quot;


This statement is misleading.  The only state which the Barr campaign ran ballot access in directly was West Virginia.  Most of the blame for failure in that state is the fault of Shane Cory,  but decisions that were made by LP National (ie-Sean Haugh) adversely effected the ballot access effort in West Virginia.

LP National (mostly Sean Haugh) is directly responsible for screwing up ballot access in Connecticut,  Maine,  and Washington DC,  and LP National along with the Barr campaign and the Louisiana LP screwed up Louisiana.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Barr campaign failed to gain ballot access in any state it attempted, while the states that were handled by the Libertarian Party itself were mostly successful.&#8221;</p>
<p>This statement is misleading.  The only state which the Barr campaign ran ballot access in directly was West Virginia.  Most of the blame for failure in that state is the fault of Shane Cory,  but decisions that were made by LP National (ie-Sean Haugh) adversely effected the ballot access effort in West Virginia.</p>
<p>LP National (mostly Sean Haugh) is directly responsible for screwing up ballot access in Connecticut,  Maine,  and Washington DC,  and LP National along with the Barr campaign and the Louisiana LP screwed up Louisiana.</p>
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		<title>By: coming on the back of the LP</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/12/christina-tobin-third-party-debates-what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-27880</link>
		<dc:creator>coming on the back of the LP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=5113#comment-27880</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s suppose to be news that Bob Barr is a douchebag?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s suppose to be news that Bob Barr is a douchebag?</p>
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