At Reason.com, Brian Doherty offers “a postmortem on Bob Barr’s presidential run,” writing in part, “From the outset, Bob Barr’s Libertarian run for the presidency was fraught with great expectations. … Visions of $30 million spun in libertarian heads; expectations soared to include a million LP votes counted on election night.” But “it didn’t really work. It’s all over now, and Barr failed as both fundraiser and candidate to even approach those high early expectations. The total money raised was $1.2 million; total votes came in at 510,000. Now, the backbiting and, as Barr media consultant Audrey Mullen put it to me last week, the intra-libertarian ‘circular firing squad’ may begin.”
39 responses so far ↓
1 G.E. // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:12 am
Someone needs to tell Doherty that Ron Paul isn’t a senator.
Does Reason have editors?
2 George Phillies // Nov 18, 2008 at 6:53 am
“Participation in the presidential debates were the key”
Any 2008 Libertarian Presidential campaign that viewed Presidential debate participation as a strategic objective rather than found money, money which by the way you are highly unlikely to find, in the absence of special circumstances, is being run by imbeciles who are sure to fail.
Special circumstances? The Libertarian ticket of Colin Powell and Bill Gates — elections cost five billion to buy? is there a quantity discount? — comes immediately to mind. There were no special circumstances. Powell/Gates? Surely needed less ideological spins on a dime than the real one to succeed.
“bringing in new members—netting the Party slightly less than 2,000 new members during his campaign.” Only if you think that none of the other campaigns or political efforts had any effect at all on people mailing money to national.
“George Phillies, one of Barr’s nomination foes, is annoyed with the campaign for spending $18,000 on limos” Actually, there was a somewhat longer list.
In bulk, bumper stickers can get down to 14 cents each. I know that, because that is what I paid. Distribute a pair of Barr bumper stickers to every Libertarian on the LNC mailing list, including the associated fundraising letter would have cost less than some single staffers were paid.
Finally, doing a postmortem when you don’t know where the near election money was spent — we will know before the LNC meeting in December — was perhaps overambitious.
3 JimDavidson // Nov 18, 2008 at 8:08 am
Plus, in spite of taking charge of West Virginia and failing to get ballot access there, the Barr campaign has also failed to pay petition gatherer Angela O’Dell. That ought to create a warm welcome next time Barr comes to Oklahoma.
It is an interesting point that something much greater than 125,000 bumper stickers could have been purchased for what Barr spent on limos, with funds left over to ship some bumper stickers out.
We not only don’t know where the slush funds were spent in the last days before the election, George, we don’t know what the write-in results are, either.
4 George Phillies // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:16 am
Oklahomans are welcome to elad the line. Barr in New Hampshire will also have an interesting time, given the video of him appearing in NH last July 22, and promising money to compensate for the $3000 or so he gave the Sununu campaign.
Sununu lost, but he might have cost Ken Blevens his fourth percentage point, which would have significantly improved ballot access for NH Libertarians.
5 George Phillies // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:17 am
Sorry, hit wrong key.
New Hampshire Libertarians know that Barr promised the money, but never delivered. Those limos must have been more important.
6 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 18, 2008 at 10:46 am
Mr. Phillies, I remember your speech when you were eliminated from the balloting at the LP Convention.
Do you?
7 paulie cannoli // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:12 am
This has previously been published on a website I helped build and was later banned from.
——————————————————–
First, here is the verbiage of George Phillies’ concession speech:
Fellow libertarians!
Thank you very much for the last two years. It’s been a wonderful time.
I’ve already given you my advice.
I’m disappointed to note that not one person has asked me to endorse someone they wanted to lose.
Well, that’s true.
I will not speak ill of a fellow Libertarian.
I will thank and acknowledge Senator Mike Gravel who, when he was a Democrat, gave our *party* the courtesy of debating a Libertarian. I will thank Wayne Allyn Root for entering and giving you time to take his measure and see if he was good or bad.
I will express — I think it’s the gratitude of many of us — very good things to Mary Ruwart and to Bob Barr for entering the race to do what they thought was best for the party.
Now, I have two things to say, one as state chair, and one to the audience as much as to anyone else.
And the thing I must say as state chair, because I would be remiss not to say it, is that a voting majority of my state committee is neopagan. I have to make that point. Those of you who know why, know why I have to do it.
Now I want to make the important point:
The enemy is not here. The enemy is out there.
The enemy is not our fellow Libertarians.
The enemy is the far left Democratic Party of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and — let’s get it right for once — Lyndon LaRouche.
The enemy is not our fellow Libertarians.
The enemy is the conservative death policy of George Bush, George Wallace, John Sununu, and Lester Maddox, the conservative bigotry philosophy that is against our country.
We are the Libertarians. We are the party of the future.
Here is the same speech, with Dr. Phillies’ notations in italics and parenthesis.
Fellow libertarians!
Thank you very much for the last two years. It’s been a wonderful time.
I’ve already given you my advice. (Which you did not take.)
I’m disappointed to note that not one person has asked me to endorse someone they wanted to lose. (After all, we just established that Libertarians listen to my advice and do something else. No one tried to profit from this pattern.)
Well, that’s true.
I will not speak ill of a fellow Libertarian. (That is a statement about the next few paragraphs of the speech, no more, no less. I say something nice about each of my four surviving opponents. Contrast is meant with the prior concession speech of Christine Smith, who was pointedly critical of one of her opponents. Note also that I did say something nice about all four of my opponents, contrary to claims in a certain historically anti-Libertarian news source that I ignored two of them.)
I will thank and acknowledge Senator Mike Gravel who, when he was a Democrat, gave our *party* the courtesy of debating a Libertarian. I will thank Wayne Allyn Root for entering and giving you time to take his measure and see if he was good or bad.
I will express — I think it’s the gratitude of many of us — very good things to Mary Ruwart and to Bob Barr for entering the race to do what they thought was best for the party.
(Now I have in fact said something about equally nice about each opponent.)
Now, I have two things to say, one as state chair, and one to the audience as much as to anyone else. (’The audience’ is the television audience.)
And the thing I must say as state chair, because I would be remiss not to say it, is that a voting majority of my state committee is neopagan. I have to make that point. Those of you who know why, know why I have to do it.
(Note that I said State Committee, not Delegation. And at this point I do remind delegates that if they nominate a candidate who ten years ago tried to organize an Army pogrom against the Wiccans, they will face consequences.)
Now I want to make the important point:
The enemy is not here. The enemy is out there.
The enemy is not our fellow libertarians.
(I should have said ‘my fellow libertarians’, because I am speaking to the video audience, but I did not.)
The enemy is the far left Democratic Party of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and — let’s get it right for once — Lyndon LaRouche.
The enemy is not our fellow libertarians.
(And now as a closer the core message of my speech, because the last words are the most remembered)
The enemy is the conservative death policy of George Bush, George Wallace, John Sununu, and Lester Maddox, the conservative bigotry philosophy that is against our country.
We are the Libertarians. We are the party of the future.
8 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:35 am
The enemy is not here. The enemy is out there.
I presume that Bob Barr was “here” and not “out there” at the time?
9 Trent Hill // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:36 am
The comparison of John Sununu to Lester Maddox and George Wallace is laughable.
10 rdupuy // Nov 18, 2008 at 12:17 pm
At the LP Convention, Bob Barr was nominated by the delegates who represent the membership of the LP party.
George Phillies did not win the nomination.
However he continued to run as “Presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire”
Maybe you’ll get a nod from Wiccans in New Hampshire, I’m no expert on that. However, I do know a political party that doesn’t rally behind the nominee, is not functioning as a political party.
You are in no position to criticize Bob Barr for underperforming when it was your obvious goal that he underperform.
I’ll tell you, there are lessons to be learned from the Barr campaign, but in context of George Phillies posting here…my temptation is to abandon that discussion and just talk about constitutes unacceptable, bad behavior.
11 rdupuy // Nov 18, 2008 at 12:27 pm
But, ignoring the disgraced Phillies for a moment, to the subject at hand.
Bob Barr didn’t run a small campaign. Which I regarded as a tactical error.
In a smaller campaign, you purchase bumper stickers, they have a website address on them. These bumper stickers cause more hits to your website, more hits eventually means more donations.
You do every investement of funds strategically, basically hoping to get more funds to invest strategically yet again.
Bob’s campaign seemed to be centered around, well frankly a Ross Perot type phenomena occurring, instead of running a regular LP campaign.
Ron Paul style money bombs were an early hope.
You know, the organizers of Bob Barr’s early money bombs, it seems to me because incredibly disappointed by their success. They thought, just almost 50K in one day was a complete failure, while I was thinking it was a great success.
Build on the success…if it worked once, do it again. But they were utterly dejected.
Overpromising certainly hurt. If a good LP campaign raises 2.5 million, then lets admit 5.0 million for 2012 is actually an ambitious goal. Nothing wrong with hitting 30 million if it happens…but don’t promise it.
12 joeydauben // Nov 18, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Steve, this was hilarious:
Mr. Phillies, I remember your speech when you were eliminated from the balloting at the LP Convention.
Do you?
L.O.L.
13 George Phillies // Nov 18, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Comparing Sununu to Wallace and Maddox:
There is a case that I was unfair. George Wallace *repented his ways* in public. At least one escaped felon was happy to surrender peaceably to Governor Maddox, because he knew that at the moment Governor Maddox handed him over to the penal authorities he would not have been tortured resisting arrest, and it wouldn’t happen later, either. Senator Sununu flunks both of these tests. He has not repented, and he did not criticize the Bush Republican torture policy.
When I said that the enemies of America were outside our hall, I believe was correct to excellent approximation … if there were any sitting Republican Senators our Congressmen inside the room, I missed seeing them.
Mr. Dupuy, your candidate was actively funding the Republican opponent (Sununu) of my good friend Ken Blevens, Libertarian candidate for U.S. Senate in New Hampshire. My campaigning in NH was targeted at canceling Mr. Barr’s efforts against our party. Barr was doing the funding while he sat on the LNC. He then appeared in NH and promised to send money — he has a PAC that is loaded with cash — to cancel the funding he sent Sununu. I gather there is a video tape. No money appeared.
In short, sir, your candidate is a liar and a traitor to our party.
However, attentive readers will have noticed that my discussion of Barr’s spending simply notes how he spent the money that he had fleeced from our donors. I leave it to the readers to decide what they think of the $18,000 for limousines and the staffers being paid $10,000+ in a month.
14 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 18, 2008 at 2:59 pm
my discussion of Barr’s spending simply notes how he spent the money that he had fleeced from our donors.
Are you claiming to be a “just the facts, ma’am” kinda guy here? ‘Cause if that were true, you would not have used the word “fleeced”.
Fleeced means to defraud of money. In what way was this money defrauded?
I believe was correct to excellent approximation
“not in here” = an absolute statement.
15 Trent Hill // Nov 18, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Wallace and Maddox were both outspoken segregationists. Sununu isnt. Your placing him between them indicates you wanted to compare him to an outright racist. Talk about a disgusting practice. Show some leadership Phillies…geezus.
16 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 18, 2008 at 3:14 pm
It seems like Mr. Phillies is using “limousine” as code for “unnecessary luxurious expense”.
Frequently, limousines are cheaper per hour than minibuses or passenger vans. Any exploration of the rates, hours, usage and purpose for the limos, or are we just to accept that the limos were rented for illegitimate, luxury use?
17 JimDavidson // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Fleeced, as in separating the unwary from something of value. Like shearing sheep. The sheep believe they can trust the process, though they get some nicks and cuts. Of course, eventually, the sheep get slaughtered, too.
Promises were made, Mr. Drunkenmiller. A million votes. Thirty million dollars. An effective and professional campaign.
There have not been a million votes gained. There were not thirty million dollars raised. And the campaign was ineffective and unprofessional. Ron Paul’s guy was told by Barr’s guy to go f#ck himself.
Limousines are a luxury to those of us who don’t take cabs, either. Michael Badnarik is held in ill repute by people like yourself, because you despise anyone in the activist community. But he drove himself all over the country campaigning. At times without a valid driver license. I think it is beyond silly for you to defend the use of limos.
Are you also going to review the hundred grand paid to political consultants? Everyone had their hand in the till for this campaign, whether they brought votes, endorsements, ideas, or just a hand, it seems. Did you have your hand in the Barr campaign’s funding stream?
I know that at least one petitioner in West Virginia is owed several thousand dollars for work she did, which the Barr campaign agreed to pay for, and for which she has not been paid. But, you go right over to Tulsa and tell Angela O’Dell how they needed her money for a limo ride for dear sweet Barr.
Stop the war.
18 Michael Seebeck // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Steve, it’s called volunteer transport, like what Badnarik used with supporters helping him. It’s also using public buses and trains (and leaving slimjims packets behind and schmozzing with passengers) and taxicabs. It’s staying at the Super 8 instead of the Hilton. There’s nothing wrong with doing the grassroots on the cheap, except that Barr didn’t even try.
rdupuy’s bumper sticker point is valid, but it should be extending to business cards and slimjims. Best set is to pack a business card and bumper sticker inside a slimjim and leave those around.
19 George Phillies // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I am using “limousine services” as a code word for
“A First Choice Limo, Alternative Business Enterprises, Crystal Limousine, Inc., Executive Three Enterprises, International Limousines, Lavdas Limousines, Luxury Limo, M&M Limousine Service, Royal Legacy Limousine, and Town Car Executive. There was also travel associated with those Limos, including travel expense payments to various airlines and hotels for $27,696, and $1687 in meeting expenses.”
We’ll compare with Browne 2000 in a while.
Oh yes, the Consultants Jim mentions for September:
The Barr Campaign did pay people. Leading people being paid for consulting in September are:
For fundraising consulting:
Robert Stuber … $12,000
For political consulting:
Doug Bandow $10000
Shane Cory $12000
PrimeOne Political Consulting 2500
Steve Sinton $8000
Russ Verney $5485.14
Also, Liberty Strategies was paid $11,000 for Contract Services.
Cory is not being paid every month, so annualizing his number looks inappropriate.
20 George Phillies // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Perhaps it would be interesting to hear an explanation of why a Libertarian Presidential candidate needs a minibus for his entourage.
21 JimDavidson // Nov 18, 2008 at 5:14 pm
@18, Michael, are you talking about food? There are slim jims used to jimmy locks and gain entry to cars. People named Jim often know about these odd usages. There is also a type of food called a slim jim.
I would be hesitant to accept a gift of food on public transportation. Less so if the package was unopened, but even then, stuff can be injected through the packaging. Of course, there are a lot more creepy people in bigger cities.
Stop the war.
22 JimDavidson // Nov 18, 2008 at 5:16 pm
@20 Takes a minibus to move his ego.
Stop the war.
23 paulie cannoli // Nov 18, 2008 at 7:20 pm
http://knappster.blogspot.com/2008/11/parting-thoughts-on-barr-campaign.html
24 LibertarianGirl // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:10 pm
let not forget the brand new air conditioner that cost more than 15000 for their campaign headquarters . Why couldnt they have just got a building with air conditioning to begin with? Werent there any available in Georgia?
I wonder what they are doing with that building now and who will benefit from the super awesome air conditioner..
25 Michael Seebeck // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Jim, “slimjim” a name for a trifold campaign flyer.
26 Michael Seebeck // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Geez, that should be “is a name”.
Me no typum gooder.
27 Michael Seebeck // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:23 pm
George, an RV make more sense. Saves on some lodging costs along the way and is more versatile.
28 George Dance // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:34 pm
George, an RV make more sense.
How do you campaign in Ohio, Colorado, Indiana, and North Carolina in an RV? You’d lose days just travelling.
Nor would the RV be much help in getting to and from the airport; waiting for it to show up would waste just as much time.
Given what Brian Doherty says about a volunteer boycott (that there’s no way to measure its effects), there’s no way to tell if the limousines could’ve been replaced by volunteer drivers, and what the effect of that would have been. In any case, the campaign probably had other things to concentrate on.
29 JimDavidson // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:45 pm
@25 Michael, I did not know that. I always called them flyers, or trifolds. Huh. Learn something new every few hours.
Stop the wars.
30 JimDavidson // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:47 pm
@28 Is there anything George Dance is willing to criticise the Barr campaign for? Or is it sycophant all the way?
How about paying their employees? Do you think Angela O’Dell ought to have been paid as agreed, or are you going to find some excuse for the Barr campaign there, too?
Stop the wars.
31 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:49 pm
I notice The Troll is going on and on about charges that aren’t proven yet.
If there was a violation of a breach of contract, let it be proven before we sling accusations.
32 paulie cannoli // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Jim lays out the case here if anyone wants to research it further
http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/barr-pay-your-petitioners/
33 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:58 pm
I did read the post; I see nothing there but vague accusations about non-payment. There’s nothing dispositive.
IF the Barr campaign treated one of its petitioners poorly, THEN that’s a big *ding* against the Barr campaign.
Asserting the alleged treatment as true and using it as a smear is malicious.
34 paulie cannoli // Nov 19, 2008 at 12:01 am
Ms. O’Dell’s contact info is in the comments there, if you want to see what proof she has or does not have.
35 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 19, 2008 at 1:02 am
Honestly, it’s not really my business. I just ask that we refrain from spreading allegations as facts.
36 George Phillies // Nov 19, 2008 at 9:28 am
George Dance // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:34 pm
How do you campaign in Ohio, Colorado, Indiana, and North Carolina in an RV? You’d lose days just travelling.
Ummh, I know these geography things are complicated, but Indiana and Ohio border on each other.North Carolina to Ohio is a same-day trip….I’ve done it. Also, you have drivers pre-position the vehicle, and the candidate flies in for his four-day sweep of Pennsylvania.
Mind you, the RV does not appear to me necessarily to make sense; it lets you be mobile with rather more staff — even if you have three drivers to keep moving all night — than appears needful.
37 paulie cannoli // Nov 19, 2008 at 9:58 am
I don’t think the RV would have made a lot of sense. They eat a ton of gas. New RVs are very expensive. Renting RVs is also very expensive. Old RVs can break down quite a bit. There are legitimate reasons for candidate to fly around the country rather than drive, although with an LP campaign, most of it could have been done with driving.
But if airplane flights are taken as a given, I don’t think taxis would have cost 18k, and the campaign could have made at least some use of volunteers and campaign supporters for transportation.
38 George Dance // Nov 24, 2008 at 1:29 am
@30: Jim Davidson is posing the usual false alternative; one doesn’t have to be either critic or sycophant wrt a campaign. For instance, it’s always possible to take the agnostic position: acknowledge you don’t have information to make a decision.
As for “how about paying Angela O’Dell?” — of course if she was hired and did the work, she should be paid for it; but what does that have to do with the question of whether Barr should have spent too much on limousines or not? How about not trying to change the subject with every post?
39 George Dance // Nov 24, 2008 at 1:50 am
@36: Actually, Barr campaigned in 8 states in the last 3 weeks: Virginia, Ohio, Colorado, New Hampshire, Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia. Some of those do border each other; others are only a day’s drive from each other. And maybe it is possible to have driven Barr around all of them in 3 weeks; maybe even for Barr to have driven himself all around them, as Jim Davidson suggests. But you wouldn’t be doing much more than just driving.
To run a campaign in 8 states in 3 weeks means a flying, a lot; and that means using airport limousines, a lot; and that means spending a lot. His filings confirm that he did spend a lot; but they do not answer the question of (as I should have said in my last comment) “whether Barr spend too much on limousines or not”.
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