From sfbg.com by way of On The Wilder Side
Dear George,
I am writing this to you on the fifth Veteran’s Day I have mourned the death of my son, Casey Sheehan. Casey was a soldier in the Army. You killed my oldest son with your lies and greed for Empire. Casey never became a Veteran because he came home in one of those pesky flag draped coffins that your mother doesn’t want to bother her “pretty mind” with.
During that other illegal and immoral war that you and your VP, Dick, had the good sense to dodge, your mother never had to go through one second of worry for your safety, did she? You were too busy doing your drugs and going AWOL to bother her “pretty mind” about that. What galls me the most when I think about my brave and honorable son’s needless and untimely death, is that you were so cowardly and worthless when you were his age and you had the nerve to condemn thousands of our children to death or disability with your lies.
George, I have written you letters before. I have demanded your resignation and also promised you that I would work for your impeachment. If you remember, I even started a peace camp of thousands of protesters outside your Crawford ranch and I even tried to get into Congress so I could impeach your criminal hide. You never answer my letters and you have never had the integrity to tell me what “Noble Cause” killed my son. This is the last letter you will receive from me while you are infecting our Oval Office, but it won’t be the last time you hear from me.
George, I guess I could “rest on my laurels” and allow you to slink off into the quiet desperation of leaving the White House as the most detested President in American history, but that is not enough for me: Millions are dead, wounded, displaced and suffering life-long pain because of your actions. You are the number one terrorist in the world today and this country catches, tortures and prosecutes “terrorists” doesn’t it? Haven’t you said so yourself? You have turned the USA into a nation of imperial mobsters and we have the ignominy of being torturers and you do not deserve to retire with any kind of peace or honor.
George, if Nancy Pelosi and the other complicit Congressional leaders won’t hold you accountable, I will. This nation has a very short memory and we have been assaulted on a daily basis by your arrogance and stupidity and most of America is buying the hype of pre-packaged and aggressively marketed, Hope, but I don’t have the option of burying your deadly legacy like it never happened and moving on. The hole in my heart that used to contain the living and breathing presence of my son will never heal and you are the one who put it there. If you think you are going to live a comfortable life in Dallas, or Paraguay, or wherever, a la Johnson, Nixon, McNamara or Kissinger, you are wrong.
George, this country too hastily moved on from the abomination of Vietnam and we never healed from that horror because we never did the hard work of holding American leaders accountable for crimes against humanity. If history repeats itself, as it tends to do, you won’t be held accountable for your crimes, but I won’t let you forget the faces of my son, Casey and his comrades or the legion of faces of the Afghan and Iraqi dead. Are your dreams haunted by the souls of the people massacred by your hubris?
If I have to buy or erect a billboard near your home and plaster it with the faces of the people you murdered, I will. I will also work with my contacts in the international community to have you indicted for crimes against humanity. I will do whatever it takes to be the thorn in your side as you have been my sorrow. There are many people around the world who thirst for justice and healing who will join me in this noble cause.
This Nation forgot the faces of the 58,000 plus Americans and millions of Vietnamese who were slaughtered for imperial greed, but they won’t forget the faces of the ones you have sacrificed on your altar of deception or the ones who will be sacrificed for the President Elect’s continued War OF Terror. If Obama does not declare a speedy and complete end to the USA’s war of terror on the world, someone should set up camp at his vacation home (which I bet will be nicer than Crawford, TX in August).
On this Veterans Day, I make this pledge to you. Unless we stop the bloody tide of war for profit and US hegemony by seeking justice for your war crimes and crimes against our Constitution, more Casey’s will die and more countries that unfortunately lie in the path of imperial conquest will be decimated.
On this Veteran’s Day, I also send my love and support to the Vets from all wars who live on our streets and are substance abusers because they can’t get help from this hypocritical government. My heart goes out to all Gold Star Mothers who have nothing but a box of medals, a triangular folded flag and memories of a dead child and regrets for a life not lived with him/her. The war machine in collaboration with our government chews people up and rolls on oiled with pain.
George you broke your oath to “faithfully” execute your office and you betrayed the troops that you command due to nothing but election fraud, but I will not break my promise to you.
Cindy Sheehan
Mother of Casey Austin Sheehan
KIA in Sadr City, Baghdad
April 04, 2004
389 responses so far ↓
1 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 14, 2008 at 11:42 pm
God, she is as dumb as the day is long.
2 paulie cannoli // Nov 14, 2008 at 11:44 pm
She’s right on, and I hope Dubai-ya! goes on to Nuremberg style war crimes trials.
3 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 14, 2008 at 11:56 pm
No, she’s not “right on”. Casey Sheehan re-enlisted with full knowledge and understanding of where he was going and what might happen.
Is mother is sullying her son’s free choice to re-enlist and join 1CAV just like he wanted to.
George Bush didn’t “kill” SPC Sheehan any more than his squad leader killed him.
And if you want to blame George Bush, blame the American people who fund the war (still!) and voted for him.
4 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:04 am
Bush stole both elections and lied the country into war. He is a war criminal plain and simple. His whole gang should be tried for war crimes.
5 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:13 am
http://andrewyu-jenwang.blogspot.com/
6 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:15 am
ohhh…I didn’t realize you were *that* kind of special.
7 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:16 am
You know what happens when you point a finger.
8 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:23 am
anyone who says that Bush stole the elections is “that kind of special”. There is absolutely *zero* evidence to support that piece of idiocy.
9 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:24 am
There’s mountains of evidence, but I don’t feel like pulling up links for you at the moment. Maybe later.
10 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:49 am
For anyone who hasn’t figured ir out yet…
Pauli cannoli is another cool aid drinker trying to promote (p*mp) another wacko weirdo, extreme site.
To Crazy Cindy (Google the term “crazy cindy” and get the truth, not Pauli cannoli’s drivel) I say:
Cindy,
This is your most disgusting rant ever. You have finally come off the rails completely.
You and your hired thugs just finished ripping off the Liberals in SF at least $600,000.00, most of which ended up in your pockets. On Veteran’s Day, here you are, using poor Casey’s coffin as a soapbox (again).
You are a MoonBat and a carpetbagger as well.
Folks, Google “Crazy Cindy” and get the FACTS, not Cindy’s frothing-at-the-mouth drivel. A Google search for “cindy sheehan private grief” will take you directly to pictures of Crazy Cindy posing for the media at an event she created just for the photo-op.
It’s disgusting!
Cindy, you’ve made more than $1,000,000.00 off Casey’s death. Stop it! Respect your son. You let him go 783 days without a headstone so you could use little white crosses with his name on them as props for PR photo ops. You even accepted money to pose for Vanity Fair magazine, while lying on top of his grave. Pictures don’t lie!
Your arrogance has now maxed-out when you refer to the President and Vice-President of the United States of America as though they were your peers.
Like it or not, they, like President-Elect Obama are our elected representatives. You couldn’t even get elected in oh-so-nutty San Francisco. So sit down and STFU. You represent the unwashed, the uneducated and the unhinged.
And just FYI, those aren’t “pesky” flag-draped coffins. That is how we honor those who have fallen in the service of our country. We are forever in their debt.
Shame on you “Media-Whore”. You gave out condoms with your name and campaign website on them and you dare to write this crap on the day we honor those who served?
Then again, the truly insane dare to do anything, After all, they’re Crazy, right, Cindy?
Even the SF bag guardian and Google are so embarrassed that they’ve pulled that article from their results.
The MoonBat/carpetbagger is finished,
11 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:50 am
Polar bear,
You did not get anything right, starting with my nickname.
12 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:58 am
BTW, Pauli,
Google won’t count links from this blog.
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
And no, I won’t tell you why, putz.
13 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:59 am
The name’s not Pauli. Shouldn’t you have learned to read first and then write?
14 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 12:59 am
aaahh
I left off an “e”
BFD
You’re still just trying to build links
15 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:00 am
Build links? WTF are you talking about?
16 Ross Levin // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:04 am
What is going on here?
Cindy Sheehan really drives people crazy. It’s weird.
17 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:05 am
Out of 1,500,000 pages on the web G lists for “Cindy Sheehan”
cindysheehanwatch.com is either #4 or #5
Because it is good, solid, honest, content about “Crazy Cindy” (#1 for that phrase)
You’re either a MoonBat or a clueless spammer
Either way, let it go. The truth is out there and you can’t stop people from seeing it. And you can’t scam Google with cheesey links, Slick.
18 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:06 am
You got me on this one. If anyone can translate polar bear drivel about links into English (or Russian), I would appreciate it.
Sheehan rocks!
19 Ross Levin // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:06 am
I really don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m sorry.
20 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:06 am
18 @ 16
21 usickbastard // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:07 am
mr druckenmiller, are you retarded or insane? because for you to write that someone is “dumb as the day is long” in response to a woman who is mourning the death of her son. regardless of whether or not you believe that the illegal war is justified and that george bush was elected fairly (when indeed there is MOUNTAINS of evidence supporting the fact that he CHEATED) leaves me no other choice to believe that you are either crazy or retarded or both. i am stunned by your callousness and impressed by your ability to lie to yourself as artfully as you do. i don’t know what happened to you to make you so ill, but i would bet money that you are a very lonely, miserable, individual who has no personal power and has never felt love in your life. that would make anyone insane so i don’t fault you that. if i were you i would want to slap my parents for the disservice they have done you and society by churning out yet another asshole in the world. my only consoling thought is that being as ill and lacking in even the most basic range of human emotions (e m p a t h y, have you heard of it?) i can only hope, and i REALLY REALLY DO, that you have not found anyone crazy or stupid enough to let you breed. i don’t understand your kind, the ones that enjoy being cruel but i have figured out that people who are assholes, LIKE being assholes. it brings them joy. that is the category you fall in and when you come home from your job at the dmv or post office where you spend your days being an asshole, you actually go out of your way, put out the extra energy that it takes to go online and be an asshole some more. you can take a 15 minute break you know… the world will still be here for you to be a dick to when you get back. sheesh.
22 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:08 am
I really don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m sorry.
I don’t know what polar bear is mumbling about either. Does anyone?
23 Ross Levin // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:08 am
And here comes the inevitable Sheehan supporter!
24 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:09 am
And here comes the inevitable Sheehan supporter!
There are many of us. More all the time.
25 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:09 am
Paulie.
See, loser, I put in the “e”. Happy now?
People here are trying to have a legitimate discussion about Crazy Cindy’s latest rant.
STFU and enjoy the 1 visitor each day who visits your pathetic little blog.
Good night and goodbye.
26 Ross Levin // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:11 am
This is just weird. I really don’t know what to say.
27 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:11 am
A picture is worth a thousand words, so here you go:
28 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:12 am
That’s
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s48indpolrep&r=33
29 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:15 am
I was right. The ‘tard is a spammer. Soon he’ll monetize the site and he’ll reap his reward.
spam
30 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:19 am
It’s not me that is monetizing the site, cupcake. As a matter of fact, I offered to pay money to keep it going, but it’s too rich for my blood.
Wow, can you try to at least get one thing right?
31 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:26 am
good night my immigrant neighbor.
“cupcake”
I like that. You sound like one of those tv tough-guys.
32 polarbear // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:28 am
All that traffic and you couldn’t get Crazy Cindy elected?
33 Ross Levin // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:40 am
Do you live in San Francisco? Who were you rooting for?
34 Deran // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:48 am
Not to worry; these trolls slamming paulie cannoli and Cindy Sheehan are just sad-sack Republicans. All pissy and whingie abt their barbaric neocon nightmare is over (I’m no Obama fan; but you have to be happy those criminals Cheney and Bush won’t darken our door step again. I’d like to think they get to vacation in a nice 8×10 cage in Gitmo for a few years.
35 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:52 am
Deran,
You may be right, or it might be one of those DPed in both ears Pelosi fans. So hard to tell them apart these days!
36 HumbleTravis // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:52 am
I am curious to see how Cindy Sheehan will treat Obama when he takes office.
37 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:56 am
I am curious to see how Cindy Sheehan will treat Obama when he takes office.
If she kisses his ass I will lose respect for her. But I don’t think she will, since she didn’t for Democrappy Pelosi.
Obama Nation: the future’s so bright, I gotta wear shades
38 HumbleTravis // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:01 am
Paulie, how do you quote in italics like that?
39 Ross Levin // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:04 am
I hope she at least gives him a chance.
40 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:05 am
Paulie, how do you quote in italics like that?
I’m not sure if the code tag will work in comments here for me to show you.
[i]text[/i] except replace the square brackets with angled ones - they are on the same keys as the comma and period here.
Let me see if code will work (it may not):
textHTML tags
http://www.web-source.net/html_codes_chart.htm
41 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:15 am
I hope she at least gives him a chance.
http://girlinshortshorts.blogspot.com/2008/11/barack-obama-tyranny-we-can-believe-in.html
42 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:22 am
Becky’s links are in red if you want to check her sources.
43 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:39 am
Yes, he was a parasite trying to suck my tax dollars in exchange for murdering foreigners and destroying their property. His mother’s a commie to such a degree that I’m glad Pelosi beat her.
44 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:40 am
For the record, I hate Cindy Sheehan, and Al Gore and John Kerry. But Bush stole the elections, and anyone who denies that is denying plainly obvious fact. In the case of Gore, especially, I think we’re LUCKY he stole it.
45 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:44 am
His mother’s a commie to such a degree that I’m glad Pelosi beat her.
I’ll take an antiwar leftist over a military-industrial-congressional stooge like Pelosi any day and twice on Sundays.
46 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:15 am
Yes, he was a parasite trying to suck my tax dollars
Don’t pay your taxes then, tough talker.
But Bush stole the elections, and anyone who denies that is denying plainly obvious fact.
Prove it. I saw paulie was going to “prove it” earlier, but he still hasn’t had the inclination to do so.
47 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:58 am
I have no interest in being thrown in one of the state’s animal cages. The cost of not paying taxes is higher than the cost of paying them; particularly sales taxes, etc.
48 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:59 am
Me too. But look at Sheehan’s platform — she’s not anti-war. She wants a hardcore war against the American populace. She advocates more aggression than Pelosi.
49 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 4:32 am
someone calls Soldiers “parasites” but I am the one lacking empathy.
you’re a psycho, G.E.
50 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 4:49 am
Would you prefer “hired killers”?
“Soldiers” sign up to receive welfare, but instead of having the decency to sit home and watch Jerry Springer, they instead get shipped off (on my dime) to remote spots of the world, where they’re allowed to destroy life and property with impunity.
I’m a psycho for recognizing this reality?
Let me ask you this: Why can’t the murderous military be funded voluntarily? Why most the government point its guns at me and force me to give up 50% of my earnings in order to pay for Iraqi girls to be raped? I’m sure you’d be happy to make up my share.
51 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 4:49 am
Druckenmiller is clearly a socialist. I would think he’d like Sheehan.
52 usickbastard // Nov 15, 2008 at 7:48 am
the fact that g.e. can’t distinguish the difference from a kid who signs up to the military because he a)has no other way to pay for college or make a decent living b) find a way out of the ghettos c) sadly believes the lies and the hype and thinks he is defending his country, his family, his friends, which is a very noble endeavor… the mostly poor young americans who join the military don’t do it to “suck your tax dollar” would anyone in their right mind go and be willing to die and kill for the right to “suck your tax dollar”? that is an idiotic statement. who profits from the wars? do you think the kids over there doing the dirty work of those too cowardly to do it themselves are profiting? they are committing suicide in droves for fuck sake…
mr druckenmiller, you certainly did exhibit a disgusting lack of empathy and i’m sorry if you feel i picked on you, yours was the first response and shocking to me how callous. that has nothing to do with the ludicrous shortsighted, unexamined borderline sociopathic opinions of g.e. i feel like i’ve stepped into the twilight zone here. the selfishness and callous disregard for human life is fucking insanity. you people aren’t in jr high school, you are grown ups, fucking evolve already. after reading this board it really is much clearer to me how the psychopathic, criminal faction that is running the show has not only survived but has thrived and flourished into the efficient killing machine it has become. you don’t appear to give a shit about human life, why would you expect your “leaders” to?
do you not have kids you love? friends you love? if you are capable of loving then how can you not imagine YOUR child over there, YOU over there.
if i sound preachy, oh well, it had to be said.
“there by the grace of god go i” and YOU too for that matter, and just because it isn’t you now, doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been and won’t be in the future.
53 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 10:55 am
G.E.,
Come on. If you support any form of state-like organization in your community (even if the covenant is voluntary), defense is necessary. Defense also happens to be the only pure public good I can think of, which means that it can’t be voluntarily funded (like, a la carte in your anarchist voluntary community organization) in an economically efficient manner.
54 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:23 am
Prove it. I saw paulie was going to “prove it†earlier, but he still hasn’t had the inclination to do so.
I didn’t say I was going to. I said I can, and maybe might later, but that I didn’t feel like it. At this point, I still don’t. Maybe later. Maybe not.
55 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:33 am
can’t distinguish the difference from a kid who signs up to the military because he a)has no other way to pay for college or make a decent living b) find a way out of the ghettos c) sadly believes the lies and the hype and thinks he is defending his country, his family, his friends, which is a very noble endeavor… the mostly poor young americans who join the military don’t do it to “suck your tax dollar†would anyone in their right mind go and be willing to die and kill for the right to “suck your tax dollar�
I agree. Let’s place the blame at the top where it belongs, the people who create, run, and get the bulk of the profits from the killing machine. They have created an economic system (through government-corporate collusion) that leaves few other options at the bottom; they create a culture of violence through the drug war; they create and coercively fund the propaganda to entice young people to join.
Defense also happens to be the only pure public good I can think of, which means that it can’t be voluntarily funded (like, a la carte in your anarchist voluntary community organization) in an economically efficient manner.
I disagree, but even if you are correct, making it more efficient does not justify coercive funding. If killing half the population made the country more economically efficient, it would still be wrong.
56 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Yes, the government creates the situation that leads to A, B, and C. But desperation is no reason to initiate force against me and agree to murder brown people and destroy their property. The soldier who volunteers out of desperation is no different from the thief who commits armed robbery to feed his family (except the armed robber doesn’t get a recurring salary, benefits for life, typically doesn’t kill, and faces risk of imprisonment).
I agree that the vast majority of the kids who sign up are themselves victims — just like the vast majority of women who butcher their unborn babies are victims. The immorality of their actions cannot be excused, even if they can be understood within a societal context.
Oh, they’d do it for free, then? Can I opt out of paying and get a 50% tax cut?
Many of them are not in their “right minds.” They’re sociopaths, and they come back worse than they were before. Hence the suicides.
Yes, defense. And it’s not a public good. See my article here: http://www.citizeneconomists.com/view_articles_detail.php?aid=138
57 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Well, it’s a public good in that it is nonexcludable (my neighbor’s security is in part a function of my security, so it wouldn’t make sense to exclude me from protection, not to mention that this would be difficult in practice to do) and nonrival (my consumption of defense doesn’t prevent simultaneous consumption by my neighbor), the definition of “public good.” You can’t have any sort of community defense without facing a free-rider problem, which is why an efficient outcome would require everyone to pay for it.
The only way around it is if there are no protective forces and everyone is responsible for protecting their property. However, many people (including libertarians) see benefits to some sort of national- or community-wide defense.
58 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:05 pm
*exclude my neighbor
Whoops.
59 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Here are the signs you’re dealing with a hyperemotional and irrational individual categorically incapable of discussing anything in less than a tone of hysteria:
1. “Murder brown people” - oooh, G.E. how progressive you are to care about “brown people”. WTF does it matter what color their skin is? Quit sucking up to the Left.
2. ““Soldiers†sign up to receive welfare, but instead of having the decency to sit home and watch Jerry Springer” - Ahh, all Soldiers are dumb white trash, right G.E.? Go ahead and say it. As a matter of fact, I want you to e-mail it to me, with your full name. If you want to be such a mighty man and dog out all Service Members as parasitic white trash, get up and do it, face-to-face, man-to-man. Tell everyone who you are.
I have the sneaking suspicion that you don’t say this terrible shit when you’re around actual people because you don’t have the balls.
60 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:26 pm
1. This is the Internet. Even if G.E. were using his real name in an e-mail, it wouldn’t be “face-to-face, man-to-man.” Again, this is the Internet. I guess that’s a limitation of this medium…
2. On using real names on the Internet: some of us would rather not be subject, and have our fringe political ramblings subject, to boss/co-worker/acquaintance Googling.
61 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:37 pm
GE’s real name has been printed many times, and he makes no secret of where he lives.
As for the free rider problem, it’s not insurmountable. Many people volunteer to help their communities in various ways, despite the fact that others don’t.
62 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I just pasted a published article under my real name.
Druckenmiller is a socialist. And he accuses ME of “sucking up to the left?” Wow.
I have the “balls” to exercise my First Amendment rights to anyone who cares to listen. If that person then chooses to initiate force against me, then I can choose to exercise my Second Amendment rights.
63 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:49 pm
No. A disproportionate number of them are non-whites. As for being “dumb,” yes, most of them are. I’m sorry you’re so Politically Correct that objective reality offends you.
This is a site for devotees of third parties. Is there now a neocon third party that I don’t know about? Or do you represent the Communist Party USA?
64 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:49 pm
That’s true. And people are not perfectly rational (although they tend to be more or less rational, or at least align their preferences/act in a way that makes them functionally rational). However, an altruistic approach to national defense would tend to break down as the system gets more complex. That being said, I have never read anything that convinced me the national defense free rider problem could be resolved.
Armed forces are NOT lighthouses.
65 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:50 pm
* resolved privately.
66 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:51 pm
have our fringe political ramblings subject, to boss/co-worker/acquaintance Googling.
I wonder why that is? If you’re ashamed of what you have to say, then maybe you shouldn’t be saying it.
I just pasted a published article under my real name.
Oh, did it call soldiers the parasitic white-trash you’ve been implying they are?
Druckenmiller is a socialist.
Overused, meaningless term, so it can be safely ignored.
I am still curious, G.E., why you said “murder brown people”…is it the color that bothers you? Or the murder? And if it’s the murder, why mention the color?
67 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:53 pm
As for being “dumb,†yes, most of them are.
There’s a statement that’s screaming for some evidence and verification.
I’m sure “smarty guy you” doesn’t have any, though.
What’s the matter, G.E.? Did you get picked on a lot by the big, tough boys at school? Is that why you play a tough guy on the internet?
68 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Did you read my article?
In a free market, the protection of life and property would be handled by private contract. When your life or property rights were infringed upon, your insurer would pay you damages. It would be in the interest of insurers to fund private defense organizations, both for policing matters, and “collective” defense. The former would be incredibly cheap on a per-household basis. The only “freeriders” in such a system would be individuals who chose not to insure themselves against acts of aggression. Yes, they’d benefit from the insurer-funded policing and defense agencies, but the incentive to “free ride” would be greatly mitigated by the fact that these people would not collect damages if they were victimized.
69 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Here are two quick ones:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/worklife/08/27/army.school.ap/index.html
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003026.html
No, actually I was one of those boys, and I deeply regret behaving that way. I was animalized by the concentration camps known as public schools.
How am I “playing tough”? I’m simply advocating free-market capitalism and the right to protect my life, liberty, and property without interference from the government. I guess that is “tough” compared to a socialist who needs the government guns to steal from innocent people in order to fund his “macho” programs of murdering and property destruction.
70 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:00 pm
29% of new soldiers were high-school dropouts.
The army now accepts people with IQs below 92.
71 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:05 pm
I would prefer that not everyone I interact with on a daily basis know my political leanings. It’s none of their business, wouldn’t you agree? And since this is a public site with public comments, I think I’m justified in my semi-anonymity.
So, you didn’t catch the irony in that post?
72 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:05 pm
The Army does not have IQ tests. So know your shit before you say things like that.
You can advocate for free-market capitalism without calling people parasites, you know.
For what it’s worth, I have not said a thing about supporting wars abroad. I’m just taking exception to your general attitude and demeanor.
Are you saying that dropping out of government-run high schools must make one dumb? What are your academic credentials? And do you really feel that’s the proper metric to rate intelligence?
73 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:10 pm
It’s none of their business, wouldn’t you agree?
There is a difference between wanting to maintain your private business and publicly (and yes, this board is ‘public’ in the sense that anyone with the motivation to see your words can) stating that Service Members are parasites.
Guess which politician received the most financial support from the military during the primaries? But hey, military people are “TEH DUMB”, right G.E.?
74 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:13 pm
And do you really feel that’s the proper metric to rate intelligence?
Not me. Although I’m a college graduate, I came very close to dropping out of high school. Given my lifestyle at the time, it is something of a miracle I even finished junior high.
75 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I wouldn’t have phrased it like that, but–given our all-volunteer military–if you believe that what the military does is morally repugnant, there has to be some point at which you start assigning moral culpability to and/or assuming general incompetence of people who willingly enlist.
76 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I wouldn’t have phrased it like that, but–given our all-volunteer military–if you believe that what the military does is morally repugnant, there has to be some point at which you start assigning moral culpability to and/or assuming general incompetence of people who willingly enlist.
Not necessarily.
For example, would you agree that the Nazi Wehrmacht or the Soviet Red Army were morally repugnant institutions? Do you extend that same view to the average grunt enlistee in those militaries?
77 paulie cannoli // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:19 pm
And yes, I realize that neither the Wehrmacht nor the Red Army were all-volunteer, but many people volunteered anyway.
78 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Note I said:
“some point at which you start assigning moral culpability to and/or assuming general incompetence of people who willingly enlist.”
Moral culpability, probably not. Dumb, yes.
79 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Thank you, paulie. I was about to make the same point. Sorry I have been such a douche to you.
It is absolutely untenable to call everyone who disagrees with you a “parasite”. A lot of people believe a mish-mash of moral and political beliefs and are simply misled or lack understanding. It does not require moral condemnation and/or name-calling.
There are about 3 million federal civilian employees. There are about (counting the National Guard and Reserves) about 2.5 million members of the military. Are you prepared to stand up and call them all parasites? Really?
80 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:25 pm
mscrib - they’re generally incompetent because they don’t believe what you believe? Is that your statement?
81 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Ugh…
I said “if you believe that what the military does is morally repugnant.” My conclusion is the LOGICAL conclusion GIVEN the initial belief. Get it? I was speaking hypothetically… sheesh!
82 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I got that. Now I’m asking you what you believe.
83 mscrib // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:35 pm
No, I don’t believe that because my problem with the military is not a moral one.
84 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:36 pm
The ASVAB functions as a proxy. See here: http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003026.html
I scored in the 99th percentile, by the way, and had recruiters bothering me all summer before I started college. They prowled my low-income, rural high school like vultures and swooped up several of my classmates — most of them total morons and a-holes. My wife, by contrast, went to an elite high school in an ultra-ritzy neighborhood. The ASVAB was optional there!
If I was a politically correct leftist like you, I could. But I prefer calling a spade a spade. I take it quite personally when someone robs me at gunpoint.
Fair questions.
1. No. In fact, it can make one smarter. But I think it’s a pretty fair generalization to say that, on average, people who drop out of high school are less intelligent and less educated than, say, people with college degrees. Furthermore, the people who join the army didn’t drop out of high school because they hate the state! They did it because, even as horribly substandard and easy to pass as government high school is, they couldn’t. They’re failures.
2. I have a degree in Finance. I learned much more outside of school, after graduation, than in it.
3. Highest level of formal education received is not the best metric for assessing intelligent or knowledge, nor is it entirely accurate. But agin, see point #1. If you want to argue that people who drop out of high school and have sub-92 IQs are smarter than the kids who graduate college and seek productive, private-sector employment, then I’d say you’re way off base.
The percentage of active personnel who gave to Ron Paul was still extremely low — a minute number. The rest of them, bloodthirsty neocons for the most part, are totally disengaged. They’re used to RECEIVING money from the government; not giving it to political candidates.
Those servicemen and women who donated to Ron Paul would constitute the proper size of a collective defense force for the nation. I think about 10,000 active-duty gave to Paul.
Anyone who willingly did so, yes. Most were conscripted — like my grandfather, who was a sergeant in WWII. He was told by the government: “Abandon your family and your career and risk your life in the pursuit of murder and property destruction — or we’ll throw you in an animal cage for X years.” So he did what he had to. And he never bragged or even accepted the benefits he earned.
85 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:39 pm
The only morality I recognize is the non-initiation of force and adherence to contracts. But I don’t call people who don’t disagree with me “parasites” — I call people who feast on the fruits of my labor without my consent “parasites” because that’s what they are.
86 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:40 pm
That is not the sum of them, but yes.
87 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:46 pm
And I should clarify: If the U.S. military were reduced to the 10,000 people who donated to Ron Paul and believe in the Constitution, and thus consumed about 1% of the funds it now inhales, and adopted a Ron Paulian foreign policy, I’d still oppose it, because I’m an Unterrified Jeffersonian and Anti-Federalist against a standing army, and I’m an anarcho-capitalist against the existence of the monopoly state… But I’d certainly oppose it less vociferously than I do now.
88 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I call people who feast on the fruits of my labor without my consent “parasites†because that’s what they are.
Define “consent”.
Technically speaking, I “dine on the fruits of your labor” on a daily basis. We all do.
And yes, by definition, if people think that the military serves a moral purpose and join it in that regard, you are calling people who disagree with you about the function of a military “parasites”.
If I was a politically correct leftist like you, I could.
There really is a difference between having a modicum of manners and civilization in you and being a “PC Leftist”. But I forgot…our 1% difference on the proper functions of the state makes me a “socialist”.
I have a degree in Finance
A degree…as in a B.A., B.S. or what?
89 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I’d still oppose it, because I’m an Unterrified Jeffersonian and Anti-Federalist against a standing army
What a man.
Look, G.E., there are two ways to go about convincing people that the State is too large and win them over to your viewpoint. You can act like an ass and insult everybody within earshot or you can use reason and detached discourse to show individuals the logical inconsistencies in their personal and political viewpoints.
Keeping in mind, of course, that I believe that, given the small amount of libertarians in the country as it is, we have a responsibility to put our best face forward, lest all libertarians are (unfairly, I admit) smeared because you’re just so gung-ho to implement an “anti-PC shock doctrine”.
Frankly speaking, you remind me of the more doctrinaire leftists and communists. You just insert “parasites” and “sponges” for “capitalist pig-dogs.
90 G.E. // Nov 15, 2008 at 4:02 pm
A B.B.A.
My full bio:
J.D. Seagraves is a securities analyst, business consultant, entrepreneur, and financial writer from Saginaw, Michigan.
J.D. has worked as freelance analyst for numerous private investment newsletters and independent research firms. He continues to write a regular column for Citizen Economists magazine, and his work has been cited by the Wall Street Journal and syndicated by Reuters.
In 2007 and 2008, J.D. was a congressional district coordinator for the Ron Paul for President campaign. In May of ‘08, he gave a nominating speech for Mary Ruwart at the Libertarian Party’s national convention in Denver.
J.D. earned a degree in Business Finance from Siena Heights University, a private Catholic college in Adrian, Michigan. He also earned a Series 7 stockbroker’s license and worked briefly as a financial planner before becoming an independent analyst. J.D. has been married since 2001, and he and his wife have a daughter who was born in 2006.
Happy?
I believe the measure of a man is as a husband and father. I think I do a pretty good job in both regards. And I think I provide for my family, both financially and emotionally, without the need of the state’s aid and without inflicting violence on others. So yes, I think I am “quite a man.” I certainly don’t think it’s unmanly to be a hardcore Jeffersonian.
I have a responsibility to myself and my family, not to “libertarians.” I don’t claim ideological kinship with anyone just because they say they’re a “libertarian,” and frankly, anyone who invests energy in the belief that the murderous state can actually be reformed is not my fellow traveler.
91 Steven Druckenmiller // Nov 15, 2008 at 4:06 pm
I have a responsibility to myself and my family, not to “libertarians.â€
That’s a responsiblity you have chosen not to take, which is fine and fair, but it is also fine and fair for me to judge you reckless for doing so.
anyone who invests energy in the belief that the murderous state can actually be reformed is not my fellow traveler
What are the alternatives?