Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent party, California branch of the Constitution Party

And since we’re talking about quite a range of “success stories” here, I assume you think he won’t top Clark’s 1%ish, will do better than Browne, Badnarik, Paul & co’s 0.5%ish. I think you can at least concede he’ll do better than McBride and/or Berglund, although Hospers will likely remain the all-time LP electoral vote getting champion.

THAT makes sense. svf is still looking at this as Barr being some kind of Rock Star. Even if he was, his star is tarnished beyond repair . . . at least in most libertarian circles.

I’ve known rock stars… and Bob Barr is no rock star.

I agree with you that Barr will only do slightly better than “all the previous LP prez campaigns.”

Your contention that “Ruwart, Kubby, and maybe even Gravel or Jingozian would get a higher vote total than Barr/W.A.R.” is what makes no sense.

Even with “the lion’s share of the Ron Paul support” — what remained of it, anyway, after the botched primary campaign and momentum-killing sputtering around — you would be looking at a general election total of perhaps 0.5-1%.

The only person who might have done better than that, if an indie campaign had been launched early and managed at least competently, is Ron Paul himself, which he clearly has no interest in.

The Ron Paul endorsement is not some kind of magic touch, which is painfully obvious given the lack of a “Baldwin fundraising surge” and the bleak prospects of the various RP/C4L-approved congressional campaigns (both in primary and general elections).

Barr and W.A.R. have alienated so many libertarians that his so called “best LP showing ever” will now likely be just like all the previous LP prez campaigns. Anyone else, who was willing to ride with the C4L would have been poised to get the lion’s share of the Ron Paul support.

THAT makes sense. svf is still looking at this as Barr being some kind of Rock Star. Even if he was, his star is tarnished beyond repair . . . at least in most libertarian circles.

Pro-Barr, anti-Barr, or a little o’ both — we should all at least agree that this statement simply makes no fucking sense.

He also says that I “embrace (my) socially-statist God”. These comments just split my gut with laughter!!

Simply because I don’t put GLBT issues out in front and center, and showcase it as my MAIN issue, I am a “social statist” and I ignore the “rest of Libertarian philosophy”.

Did I say Mr. Miller was “obsessed” with the GLBT issue? Nah, he can’t be . . . especially since by not linking “everything libertarian” to GLBT, I must be a statist.

If Miller wants to accuse me of anything, I plead guilty of being obsessed with defending liberty.

YES, such devastating interventions of government in the economy AFFECTS EVERYONE, but then, in Miller’s view GLBT infringements by government affects everyone I guess as well. I suppose that’s true in one’s mind, if you’re obsessed.

I do find it amazing how one person’s obsession with one issue can cloud their thinking and call me a statist.

And yet the irony is that even after all those mistakes and fuckups, they’re still going to get more votes on November 4th than the Paultard “revolution” and its preferred candidate Chuck Baldwin.

No, I never said he was.

By whose measure?

Oh yeah, yours and yours alone.

And anybody who doesn’t accept your whole “throw out the rest of Libertarian philosophy and solutions and focus solely on these two issues and get behind a big-time statist who just happens to agree with me on these two issues” schtick is now a Bad Libertarian.

So, Ron Paul is to blame for that?

Not really. But he is to blame for his cozy relationship with Stormfront, his positions in opposition to immigration (and resulting efforts to label Muslims as “terrorists”), his social-conservative control-freak legislative efforts, his put-a-wall-and-troops-on-the-border xenophobia, etc., etc., etc.

And quite a few Libertarians simply aren’t willing to adhere to your demand that we abandon our consciences and morals to embrace your socially-statist God, Steve. Sorry.

Ron Paul cultism does get out of hand

So, Ron Paul is to blame for that? Some Paul supporters are cultish I suppose, but tell me of any “leader” who doesn’t have such things happen in their endeavors?

This Barr/W.A.R. campaign, the so-called “best ticket ever” for the LP has made more critical errors than is comprehensible!

Barr/W.A.R . . . improperly managed, and improperly grounded (not grounded in libertarianism) has become the nightmare even worse than I imagined.

I know, but I’m really wondering. I see a lot of people doing it, most especially ones who dislike Cory, so I’m wondering if there is any significance to it I missed.