The comments of this post will be an opportunity for readers to liveblog the The City Club of Cleveland debate between Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin and Ralph Nader, moderated by Dan Moulthrop of Cleveland’s PBS radio and television stations, which will be streamed live by ideastream (http://www.wviz.org/ and http://www.cityclub.org/homepage.asp). The candidates will debate between 4:30 pm and 5:30 pm Eastern time.
IPR’s previous coverage of this event is here, here and here.
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/11/video-alternative-presidential-debates/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exTroA4Haoc
thanx Paul – i’ll keep checkin!
emmamess, it’ll be a post when I find the video.
rdupuy – agreed for the most part. Except this:
The differences between Greens, LP, and CP are larger than say the differences between Greens and the democratic party. The CP and Republicans….they are different, but not as big a difference as the CP and LP.
In some ways all the major alternative parties have more in common with each other than they do with the big two; the campaign for liberty “big four” are just some of the examples.
post me a link – i mean
where can i watch this debate – b-cuz a freind just informed me about it -n- i missed it. can i still view it somewhere? anyone with info – please send me a link.
I agree, Baldwin always had the most to gain by such a debate, but its of no consequence.
Combining into one party is moronic. I’m not going to mince words. If you combine into one party, someone will start another party tomorrow, and you won’t have one party anymore.
Secondly, its an absurdity. Tossing out Nader, who is not really supporting 3rd parties, he runs as an independent, the combined forces of the LP, CP, and Greens, would be less than 1 percent.
Combining should be done for some reason, not for no reason. What would the reason be? That we would be stronger if we had the awesome power of 1 percent vote totals?
That we are stronger if we have a confused message, a mismash of ideas, and no particular beliefs whatsoever?
And this has been tried in other countries. There are tons of minor parties in Russia. They combine to form ‘United Fronts’ from time to time.
Liberal democrats marching in the same parade where ultranationalists of pseudo-nazi flags flying.
Anyone want to march under a nazi flag?
The differences between Greens, LP, and CP are larger than say the differences between Greens and the democratic party. The CP and Republicans….they are different, but not as big a difference as the CP and LP.
If you want to join up and have a huge combined force, join up with the democrats, you’d be in the majority party then.
No, it simply doesn’t make sense, but the idea seems to be pervasive, and because of that, it shouldn’t be ignored. More 3rd party debates, More 3rd party websites, news channels….but by all means, continued 3rd party competition, not collusion.
http://www.freegregwright.com/
Well johncjackson you are not the only one. I called the original venue only to find out that there isn’t a debate. This is not any different from the October 19th debate that was supposed to happen at Columbia University. We ended up with two debates, one virtual at breakthematrix and another one at Columbia University which was cancelled. Only Cynthia McKinney attended the other debate because that is the one that her schedule allowed her to attend. This time around, the initial debate was supposed to happen at the University of Cincinnati Zimmer at 8:30pm between Bob Barr and Pastor Baldwin. Cynthia McKinney couldn’t attend because she was scheduled to be in Houston to stand against Death Penalty and support the family of the citizen who will be executed today. I don’t think that Texas would reschedule the execution to facilitate the debate. The debate at UC-Zimmer has been canceled and now both Barr and Baldwin are in Cleveland Ohio for Nader’s debate. Until today, most people thought that the debate was going to be held at UC-Zimmer at 8:30 pm. Meanwhile the viper tongue is behaving like Satan’s only daughter spreading lies on the internet. This is her deliberate attempt to sabotage Greens, and birth one cultish party. I will not be surprise to hear the formation of new political party after November 4th.
I can’t say there was a clear winner.
I suppose it depends on your ideology and what you wanted to hear from the candidates. I’d say all three of them won.
I agree. Again, Baldwin gained the most relatively speaking because he has the lowest profile.
Well, mostly Paulie. 🙂
Thank you Mike and Paulie for the play by play
I can’t say there was a clear winner.
I suppose it depends on your ideology and what you wanted to hear from the candidates. I’d say all three of them won.
Feed’s off.
I agree. I was left wanting more from all of them.
I’d have wanted to get at least another hour.
Milling around, etc.
Debate over. All did well, including the moderator. They should have made it longer.
Barr: cut spending, put the money back into the productive economy
Barr: reduce regulations that are hurting business
Nice grazing shot at Barr there by Baldwin.
Baldwin: this would brings job back home
Baldwin: 10% across the board tariff
Baldwin: opposes globalization, trade agreements..
I like this moderator.
Yes.
Nader: globalization makes us too reliant on multinational corporations, fascist and communist regimes abroad.
Nader: grow food locally, produce energy locally, community health clinics; globalization stretches the lines of supply which creates greater risks.
I like this moderator.
Closing question. Unemployment solutions?
Baldwin: wars must be declared.
Baldwin and Barr also want to get out soon, at least.
Nader: UN sponsored elections, humanitarian aid, military withdrawal. Use the occupation money to rebuild US infrastructure instead.
Q: Cost of war in Iraq
Nader wants more social programs like Europe. Believes SS is essential and sound until 2043, and wants single payer.
Nader: disagrees
Barr: we have a $100 trillion unfunded liability; immoral and coercively funded
Baldwin: let younger people opt out.
Q: SS and other entitlements
Nader listing off specific impeachable offenses. Mentions they can still be prosecuted after they leave office, and should be.
Nader: this is the most impeachable regime in American history.
Seems like Baldwin is doing well. The fact that he agreed with Nader on jailing corporate thugs and letting go non-violent drug offenders to make room should make him FAR more appealing to some.
I was somewhat unclear there – he did not address the drug offenders, just jailing corporate criminals.
Barr – testified on these issues, but this is too late.
Baldwin – agrees…
Barr: moot point this late.
Seems like Baldwin is doing well. The fact that he agreed with Nader on jailing corporate thugs and letting go non-violent drug offenders to make room should make him FAR more appealing to some.
Q: impeach Bush?
Baldwin: both differences and agreements; pro-life, anti-gay marriage…
Under the right circumstances, maybe parties can combine, such as around Ron Paul
Barr: legally impossible to combine at this point.
Nader: a lot of our positions are supported by a majority of the American people, but there are important differences between him and LP/CP: single payer healthcare, regulations…
Q: Can we all just unite as a third party?
Moderator much better than Hedges.
Q & A is up now
Nader: NAFTA/WTO, exploitative employers and US support for oppressive regimes is the villain here, not immigrants.
Nader: large employers looking for low wage employees are the magnet. Minimum wage has gone way down in real terms while productivity has risen.
Nader: US foreign and trade policy drives immigrants north to US, needs to be changed.
Barr: immigrants and visitors should enter the country legally and be checked for diseases.
Barr: bailout is only tangentially related to immigration.
Baldwin Q: immigration
Barr: Opposes locked in trade agreements, and much of the same as the other two, but not as strongly.
Supports free trade in principle, but not in particular on the details of the agreements.
Baldwin: North American Union…
Baldwin: stop globalization.
Baldwin: UN is is evil.
Baldwin is agin’ it. End it, not mend it. Also CAFTA, GATT, WTO, UN…
Nader Q: WTO/NAFTA?
Wall Street Wankstas?
I like the pun “banksters”. Good line.
Baldwin: no more fiat money. Gold and silver only.
Did they bus in the audience from a homeless shelter?
Calls them “Wall street banksters” – they should be prosecuted and perhaps tarred and feathered. Federal Reserve System is a fraud. Abolish IRS, 16th Amendment.
Nader: release all non-violent drug offenders, fill the cells with corporate criminals. That’ll bring about prison reform at the same time.
Baldwin agrees.
Nader: make room for corporate crooks by releasing nonviolent drug offenders.
+1
Nader: we need to have criminal investigations into corporate crime.
Actually to both
I don’t know how I missed it. I actually found out on reason, and then decided I should look here. Reason made it sound like Barr vs. Nader one on one.
Nope, Barr to Baldwin
Barr to Nader
Nader: 9 of 10 Americans think nation is in decline, 3 of 4 think corporations have too much power, and most want more than the big two parties.
The major parties are acting like monopolists by preventing the opposition from being heard.
Nader: Need to investigate corporate power, like FDR did in 1938. What we have now is corporate fascism.
Did I miss something? I never even knew this debate was happening until now. All the stories I have read have been about how Barr can’t make any debates but Root is making a VP one.
Yes. See last line of this post and click on the “here”s.
Paulie, Baldwin was done with his opener. Barr and Nader also spoke.
Barr: BOMB Bush-Obama-McCain Bailout. More and more interests/industries looking for bailouts.
Baldwin wants to abolish the fed.
Did I miss something? I never even knew this debate was happening until now. All the stories I have read have been about how Barr can’t make any debates but Root is making a VP one.
Baldwin is still speaking, about the bailout. Not sure if we are live anymore.
You know, I disagree with most of what Baldwin says, especially on social and economic issues, but there’s something very likely about the guy.
There’s an audio stream here that’s working well for me.
http://audio1.ideastream.org/wcpn128.asx
It’s back.
Noper. I’ll let you know when I hear something.
Anything on your end, Paulie?
Just cut in for a second and died again.
Still dead here.
Feed died here…
Did it just freeze for anyone else?
Chuck Baldwin: Ron Paul, Ron Paul, Ron Paul. Did I mention Ron Paul? Ron Paul!
Smart move by Baldwin to attach himself to Ron Paul. That’s gotta piss Barr off a bit.
Chuck Baldwin: I’m a stand-in for Ron Paul.
I like any debate that encourages candidate to candidate interaction.
Baldwin intro.
Ok. Nader’s there.
Nader just got there.
Closing question at the end.
The sound on mien has an echo.
Then candidates ask each other a question. Then audience questions.
3 min opening statements, 2 min rebuttals
Today is the 96th anniversary of the City Club.
Moderator is on.
There will be questions from the audience.
Seems to be working now.
Barr and Baldwin are there. Nader is apparently running late.
Hopefully that was just them testing it.
Stream is on. Kind of spotty.
http://fms.uakron.edu/applications/city_club_of_cleveland/live.htm