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	<title>Comments on: The Modern Whig Party explains itself</title>
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	<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/</link>
	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
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		<title>By: langa</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10650</link>
		<dc:creator>langa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10650</guid>
		<description>&quot;Right now our nation is polarized between two parties on the extremes.&quot;

I couldn&#039;t disagree more.  Obama and McCain are very similar on the issues.  In fact, abortion is the only issue I can think of where they fundamentally disagree with each other.  On every other issue, they&#039;re either in total agreement, or they basically agree with each other, but just quibble over the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Right now our nation is polarized between two parties on the extremes.&#8221;</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t disagree more.  Obama and McCain are very similar on the issues.  In fact, abortion is the only issue I can think of where they fundamentally disagree with each other.  On every other issue, they&#8217;re either in total agreement, or they basically agree with each other, but just quibble over the details.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10624</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10624</guid>
		<description>Totally inaccurate point by Vic. It was American intervention, not &quot;isolationism,&quot; that created both Communism and fascism. Even the murderous bigot / statist icon Churchill said so:

&quot;America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War. If you hadnâ€™t entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these â€˜ismsâ€™ wouldnâ€™t to-day be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government, and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American, and other lives.&quot;

It is not America&#039;s job to protect foreigners from themselves, nor is it to extract the fruits of my labor to pay Vic as a hired killer for the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally inaccurate point by Vic. It was American intervention, not &#8220;isolationism,&#8221; that created both Communism and fascism. Even the murderous bigot / statist icon Churchill said so:</p>
<p>&#8220;America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War. If you hadnâ€™t entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these â€˜ismsâ€™ wouldnâ€™t to-day be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government, and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American, and other lives.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is not America&#8217;s job to protect foreigners from themselves, nor is it to extract the fruits of my labor to pay Vic as a hired killer for the state.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10615</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10615</guid>
		<description>Vin - regardless of my assessment of the &quot;military culture,&quot; I still think the Modern Whig Party is doing great things.  It&#039;s such a creative third party, and I admire that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vin &#8211; regardless of my assessment of the &#8220;military culture,&#8221; I still think the Modern Whig Party is doing great things.  It&#8217;s such a creative third party, and I admire that.</p>
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		<title>By: Vin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10614</link>
		<dc:creator>Vin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10614</guid>
		<description>Your history is accurate. But we are dealing with the current problem and not some academic review of past issues. If there are those who are actively plotting or seeking to commit terror attacks against Americans, we can&#039;t just dismiss it as &quot;interventionist nation building garbage that does nothing for America and helps bankrupt us.&quot;

And the argument that isolating ourselves will solve the problem is not based out of historical fact. Last time we did that, fascism rolled across Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your history is accurate. But we are dealing with the current problem and not some academic review of past issues. If there are those who are actively plotting or seeking to commit terror attacks against Americans, we can&#8217;t just dismiss it as &#8220;interventionist nation building garbage that does nothing for America and helps bankrupt us.&#8221;</p>
<p>And the argument that isolating ourselves will solve the problem is not based out of historical fact. Last time we did that, fascism rolled across Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Sivarticus</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10609</link>
		<dc:creator>Sivarticus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10609</guid>
		<description>Vin, what last time? You mean the &#039;80s and &#039;90s when we poured hordes of money and weapons into the Mujihadeen? We helped create a wild west like atmosphere that let the Taliban come out the strongest of the pack after the Soviets gave up. We shouldn&#039;t have stuck our noses to begin with.

The Russians would&#039;ve had to leave eventually from simmering discontent and their own economic collapse. We blew truckloads of taxpayer&#039;s money just to create more chaos in Afghanistan, when the original problem would&#039;ve resolved itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vin, what last time? You mean the &#8217;80s and &#8217;90s when we poured hordes of money and weapons into the Mujihadeen? We helped create a wild west like atmosphere that let the Taliban come out the strongest of the pack after the Soviets gave up. We shouldn&#8217;t have stuck our noses to begin with.</p>
<p>The Russians would&#8217;ve had to leave eventually from simmering discontent and their own economic collapse. We blew truckloads of taxpayer&#8217;s money just to create more chaos in Afghanistan, when the original problem would&#8217;ve resolved itself.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10601</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10601</guid>
		<description>Vin - The mainstream of society is socialist. Just like the military.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vin &#8211; The mainstream of society is socialist. Just like the military.</p>
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		<title>By: Vin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10596</link>
		<dc:creator>Vin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10596</guid>
		<description>Last time we left Afghanistan to sink or swim, they sank and the problem flew over here...

Either way, the viewpoint and support of Afghanistan as a military campaign itself is within the mainstream of society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last time we left Afghanistan to sink or swim, they sank and the problem flew over here&#8230;</p>
<p>Either way, the viewpoint and support of Afghanistan as a military campaign itself is within the mainstream of society.</p>
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		<title>By: Sivarticus</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10594</link>
		<dc:creator>Sivarticus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10594</guid>
		<description>What the the heck? Screw Afghanistan! Let them sink or swim. I&#039;ll never understand the perception of Afghanistan as the &quot;good war.&quot; It&#039;s just more interventionist nation building garbage that does nothing for America and helps bankrupt us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the the heck? Screw Afghanistan! Let them sink or swim. I&#8217;ll never understand the perception of Afghanistan as the &#8220;good war.&#8221; It&#8217;s just more interventionist nation building garbage that does nothing for America and helps bankrupt us.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10589</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10589</guid>
		<description>Although I would never be a Modern Whig, better for the military men and women to have a party representing their own (welfare statist) interests, than to have them blindly obedient to the neocons, who do not have their best interests at heart. After all, the self interest of the military men and women is &quot;give us more welfare!&quot; but they also want to stay alive, and that&#039;s a lot less costly than war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I would never be a Modern Whig, better for the military men and women to have a party representing their own (welfare statist) interests, than to have them blindly obedient to the neocons, who do not have their best interests at heart. After all, the self interest of the military men and women is &#8220;give us more welfare!&#8221; but they also want to stay alive, and that&#8217;s a lot less costly than war.</p>
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		<title>By: Vin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10588</link>
		<dc:creator>Vin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10588</guid>
		<description>Maybe it was the context? The way it was interpreted, one might think the Whigs were goose-stepping into beer halls. The Whigs have established a niche with members of the military and veterans, so they definately may be viewing certain issues in a different light. But Lebowitz also made the first-hand point that stereotypical views of solidiers within the &quot;military culture&quot; in terms of political knowledge is not accurate

The platform Ross cited of &quot;strong national defense&quot; is accurate in that they do not shun any and all uses of the military as other groups might believe. Again, most Americans can justify using force when absolutely necessary (even Jimmy Carter attempted to use force on the failed rescue mission). 

The military views of the Whigs is debatable, but I think they have many other qualities that appeals to your average mainstream voter.

In the end, I agree with Ross that other party leaders can learn something if they can get beyond themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it was the context? The way it was interpreted, one might think the Whigs were goose-stepping into beer halls. The Whigs have established a niche with members of the military and veterans, so they definately may be viewing certain issues in a different light. But Lebowitz also made the first-hand point that stereotypical views of solidiers within the &#8220;military culture&#8221; in terms of political knowledge is not accurate</p>
<p>The platform Ross cited of &#8220;strong national defense&#8221; is accurate in that they do not shun any and all uses of the military as other groups might believe. Again, most Americans can justify using force when absolutely necessary (even Jimmy Carter attempted to use force on the failed rescue mission). </p>
<p>The military views of the Whigs is debatable, but I think they have many other qualities that appeals to your average mainstream voter.</p>
<p>In the end, I agree with Ross that other party leaders can learn something if they can get beyond themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10586</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10586</guid>
		<description>It was my understanding that the Modern Whigs are strongly rooted in the military, and I summarized that as &quot;based in a &#039;military culture.&#039;&quot;

Lebowitz saying that the Whigs stood for a &quot;strong national defense&quot; also reinforced that idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was my understanding that the Modern Whigs are strongly rooted in the military, and I summarized that as &#8220;based in a &#8216;military culture.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>Lebowitz saying that the Whigs stood for a &#8220;strong national defense&#8221; also reinforced that idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Vin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10585</link>
		<dc:creator>Vin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10585</guid>
		<description>Wow! Talk about pulling something out of context.  Lebowitz was providing background information about the actual military culture of the actual military!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Talk about pulling something out of context.  Lebowitz was providing background information about the actual military culture of the actual military!</p>
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		<title>By: revswirl</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10584</link>
		<dc:creator>revswirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10584</guid>
		<description>Ok.. here&#039;s the &quot;military culture&quot; quote:

&quot;While some unfamiliar with military culture may stereotype soldiers as mindless conservative grunts, I will vehemently counter that some of my most enlightening and engaging political discussions have been among soldiers. One such discussion related to the history of the historic Whig Party.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok.. here&#8217;s the &#8220;military culture&#8221; quote:</p>
<p>&#8220;While some unfamiliar with military culture may stereotype soldiers as mindless conservative grunts, I will vehemently counter that some of my most enlightening and engaging political discussions have been among soldiers. One such discussion related to the history of the historic Whig Party.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: revswirl</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10583</link>
		<dc:creator>revswirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10583</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see why the Whigs are considered a &quot;military culture.&quot;  If you look at the issue page you&#039;ll see most of it has to do with non-military issues.  While it&#039;s true the Party began as a veteran&#039;s advocacy group it has grown to include thousands of non-military members (myself included).  And I do think we have a general ideology, that being common sense and moderation.  However, we&#039;re not going to tell our members that they can&#039;t be part of it simply because they&#039;re not &quot;conservative&quot; or &quot;liberal&quot; enough on certain issues.  Polarization is the problem.  Compromise is the solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why the Whigs are considered a &#8220;military culture.&#8221;  If you look at the issue page you&#8217;ll see most of it has to do with non-military issues.  While it&#8217;s true the Party began as a veteran&#8217;s advocacy group it has grown to include thousands of non-military members (myself included).  And I do think we have a general ideology, that being common sense and moderation.  However, we&#8217;re not going to tell our members that they can&#8217;t be part of it simply because they&#8217;re not &#8220;conservative&#8221; or &#8220;liberal&#8221; enough on certain issues.  Polarization is the problem.  Compromise is the solution.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/the-modern-whig-party-explains-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-10582</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1572#comment-10582</guid>
		<description>In the interview they say they&#039;re based in a &quot;military culture.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the interview they say they&#8217;re based in a &#8220;military culture.&#8221;</p>
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