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	<title>Comments on: Chuck Baldwin on Religious Liberty</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/</link>
	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
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		<title>By: langa</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-2/#comment-9170</link>
		<dc:creator>langa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9170</guid>
		<description>It certainly doesn&#039;t improve my opinion of him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly doesn&#8217;t improve my opinion of him.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-2/#comment-9169</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9169</guid>
		<description>How does refusing to debate other candidates rank versus the Helms/Gore press releases?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does refusing to debate other candidates rank versus the Helms/Gore press releases?</p>
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		<title>By: langa</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9166</link>
		<dc:creator>langa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9166</guid>
		<description>Barr certainly has his share of warts, and I&#039;m not at all comfortable with the idea of voting for him.  However, I&#039;m also not comfortable with the idea of voting for a party that devotes entire planks of their platform to denouncing things like pornography and gambling, neither of which are EVER mentioned in the Constitution.

Like I said, if Baldwin was on the ballot here, I&#039;d have a tough decision.  As it is, Barr&#039;s my only real choice, other than not voting at all, which could be an option if Barr issues any more crazy press releases praising the likes of Jesse Helms and Al Gore.  But as long as he avoids acting like a complete moron, he&#039;ll probably get my vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barr certainly has his share of warts, and I&#8217;m not at all comfortable with the idea of voting for him.  However, I&#8217;m also not comfortable with the idea of voting for a party that devotes entire planks of their platform to denouncing things like pornography and gambling, neither of which are EVER mentioned in the Constitution.</p>
<p>Like I said, if Baldwin was on the ballot here, I&#8217;d have a tough decision.  As it is, Barr&#8217;s my only real choice, other than not voting at all, which could be an option if Barr issues any more crazy press releases praising the likes of Jesse Helms and Al Gore.  But as long as he avoids acting like a complete moron, he&#8217;ll probably get my vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gillis</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9161</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gillis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9161</guid>
		<description>Has Barr ever remarked about his anti-Wicca crusade since he began his campaign?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has Barr ever remarked about his anti-Wicca crusade since he began his campaign?</p>
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		<title>By: Trent Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9159</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9159</guid>
		<description>Im a Christian who doesnt like his church and his politics mixing---but I&#039;d vote for Baldwin WAY before Barr. Baldwin has come out consistently and said that he wants to work with Athiests, agnostics, mormons, catholics, etc. He said he would leave intact-at all levels--the seperation of church and state. Barr, on the other hand, banned Wicca from the military.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im a Christian who doesnt like his church and his politics mixing&#8212;but I&#8217;d vote for Baldwin WAY before Barr. Baldwin has come out consistently and said that he wants to work with Athiests, agnostics, mormons, catholics, etc. He said he would leave intact-at all levels&#8211;the seperation of church and state. Barr, on the other hand, banned Wicca from the military.</p>
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		<title>By: langa</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9156</link>
		<dc:creator>langa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9156</guid>
		<description>I like the idea of using the Constitution as the basis for the platform, since it is the *Constitution Party*.  I think the current platform will probably keep a lot of people from voting for Baldwin, who would vote for him if he were running as an Independent, or with a different platform.

For example, if Baldwin were on the ballot in Georgia, I would have a tough decision between him and Barr, but I would probably lean toward Barr, just because I find the LP platform so much more attractive than the CP platform.  And I say this as a Christian who strongly believes in separation of church and state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea of using the Constitution as the basis for the platform, since it is the *Constitution Party*.  I think the current platform will probably keep a lot of people from voting for Baldwin, who would vote for him if he were running as an Independent, or with a different platform.</p>
<p>For example, if Baldwin were on the ballot in Georgia, I would have a tough decision between him and Barr, but I would probably lean toward Barr, just because I find the LP platform so much more attractive than the CP platform.  And I say this as a Christian who strongly believes in separation of church and state.</p>
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		<title>By: Trent Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9155</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9155</guid>
		<description>langa,

The platform, for the most part, was written in 1992 amongst the most religious Pat Buchanan-types in the party,as well as the founders. In 1996, it was strengthened by the same Pat Buchanan types, plus some major religious-right types. It has not been touched since then because of the seriousness with which the &quot;Old Gaurd&quot; wants to protect it. This platform was forged by many hours of argueing between the various factions of the Old Gaurd (which I can go into more, if needed)--and they don&#039;t want to open that book up again. In 2000, there was a HUGE fight over the Preamble. The religious-right, Moral Majority types wanted &quot;Jesus&quot; specifically inserted. The Originalists (as I call them) wanted to call it &quot;The Creator&quot;. The Moral Majority types won this battle, narrowly. It was a VERY bitter fight. You could compare it to the &quot;Portland Massacre&quot; for the LP. 
In 2008, though, a small contingent of us brought forth a very controversial platform proposal that basically consisted of scrapping the existing document and replacing it with The Constitution. Any planks which were added (and we expected many would be) would need to cite specific Constitutional authority (this, we called the &quot;Constitutional bridge&quot;). This did not neccesarily have to come from the text of the Constitution itself,but could come from Founding Father&#039;s quotes--to interpret original intent. 

The first proposal, of replacing the platform entirely, was shot down immediately. We did not have the strength to pull it off.
But we mananaged to place the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Indepence as the the basis for our platform BEFORE the preamble, as can be seen here.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

We also managed to insert the &quot;Constitutional bridges&quot;. We made it mandatory for one of these to exist. This will make it easy the next time to eliminate unconstitutional planks in the platform,because it will be obvious that the constitutional justification sucks.

The Ron Paul Revolution has done alot to help the Originalists. It converted some of the Moral Majority types, and MANY of the Buchananesque types into Ron Paul Constitutionalists. 

Baldwin is one of the Moral Majority types turned Ron Paul Constitutionalists. 

So answer your question though: Yes, the platform was written by a minority. As recently as 2004, though, it was protected by a majority. The Ron Paul Revolution, however, has ensured that the Platform would be reworked in 2008 (and indeed it was), and made MUCH better in 2012. 

As for why the nominated Baldwin--Baldwin tended to play up his areas of agreement with the CP and his supporters did the same. Besides...the only other choice was Keyes, and Baldwin is WAY closer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>langa,</p>
<p>The platform, for the most part, was written in 1992 amongst the most religious Pat Buchanan-types in the party,as well as the founders. In 1996, it was strengthened by the same Pat Buchanan types, plus some major religious-right types. It has not been touched since then because of the seriousness with which the &#8220;Old Gaurd&#8221; wants to protect it. This platform was forged by many hours of argueing between the various factions of the Old Gaurd (which I can go into more, if needed)&#8211;and they don&#8217;t want to open that book up again. In 2000, there was a HUGE fight over the Preamble. The religious-right, Moral Majority types wanted &#8220;Jesus&#8221; specifically inserted. The Originalists (as I call them) wanted to call it &#8220;The Creator&#8221;. The Moral Majority types won this battle, narrowly. It was a VERY bitter fight. You could compare it to the &#8220;Portland Massacre&#8221; for the LP.<br />
In 2008, though, a small contingent of us brought forth a very controversial platform proposal that basically consisted of scrapping the existing document and replacing it with The Constitution. Any planks which were added (and we expected many would be) would need to cite specific Constitutional authority (this, we called the &#8220;Constitutional bridge&#8221;). This did not neccesarily have to come from the text of the Constitution itself,but could come from Founding Father&#8217;s quotes&#8211;to interpret original intent. </p>
<p>The first proposal, of replacing the platform entirely, was shot down immediately. We did not have the strength to pull it off.<br />
But we mananaged to place the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Indepence as the the basis for our platform BEFORE the preamble, as can be seen here.<br />
<a href="http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php</a></p>
<p>We also managed to insert the &#8220;Constitutional bridges&#8221;. We made it mandatory for one of these to exist. This will make it easy the next time to eliminate unconstitutional planks in the platform,because it will be obvious that the constitutional justification sucks.</p>
<p>The Ron Paul Revolution has done alot to help the Originalists. It converted some of the Moral Majority types, and MANY of the Buchananesque types into Ron Paul Constitutionalists. </p>
<p>Baldwin is one of the Moral Majority types turned Ron Paul Constitutionalists. </p>
<p>So answer your question though: Yes, the platform was written by a minority. As recently as 2004, though, it was protected by a majority. The Ron Paul Revolution, however, has ensured that the Platform would be reworked in 2008 (and indeed it was), and made MUCH better in 2012. </p>
<p>As for why the nominated Baldwin&#8211;Baldwin tended to play up his areas of agreement with the CP and his supporters did the same. Besides&#8230;the only other choice was Keyes, and Baldwin is WAY closer.</p>
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		<title>By: langa</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9154</link>
		<dc:creator>langa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9154</guid>
		<description>&quot;No kidding. Even I agree with criticisms on our platformâ€“which as a whole: Sucks.&quot;

Trent - Just out of curiosity, was the platform written by a small minority in the party, or do most of the members support it?  If so, why would they nominate Baldwin, who seems to disagree with much of it?  Or is he just downplaying his agreement with it, in order to avoid alienating libertarians and Paul voters?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No kidding. Even I agree with criticisms on our platformâ€“which as a whole: Sucks.&#8221;</p>
<p>Trent &#8211; Just out of curiosity, was the platform written by a small minority in the party, or do most of the members support it?  If so, why would they nominate Baldwin, who seems to disagree with much of it?  Or is he just downplaying his agreement with it, in order to avoid alienating libertarians and Paul voters?</p>
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		<title>By: langa</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9153</link>
		<dc:creator>langa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9153</guid>
		<description>If marriage were privatized, I have no doubt that there would be companies lining up to fill the demand for ceremony-officiating, record-keeping, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If marriage were privatized, I have no doubt that there would be companies lining up to fill the demand for ceremony-officiating, record-keeping, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Trent Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9140</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9140</guid>
		<description>Better? Have you ever BEEN married?

Haha, I kid I kid.

No seriously,wheres my hobo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better? Have you ever BEEN married?</p>
<p>Haha, I kid I kid.</p>
<p>No seriously,wheres my hobo?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Theodore</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9138</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Theodore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9138</guid>
		<description>Well, basically just a way of recording your married to prove that you are. Some things in the private sector give benefits to married couple above single. It would make it, as GE said, a contract of mutual love and agreement. Better than paying homeless people to act like your wife.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, basically just a way of recording your married to prove that you are. Some things in the private sector give benefits to married couple above single. It would make it, as GE said, a contract of mutual love and agreement. Better than paying homeless people to act like your wife.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Orvetti</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9136</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Orvetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9136</guid>
		<description>Folks who wanna get married should just get together and say &quot;we&#039;re married!&quot; with a friend or family member or no one at all officiating.  Why is any official -- governmental or otherwise -- needed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks who wanna get married should just get together and say &#8220;we&#8217;re married!&#8221; with a friend or family member or no one at all officiating.  Why is any official &#8212; governmental or otherwise &#8212; needed?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Theodore</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9134</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Theodore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9134</guid>
		<description>No, but when was the last time I applied for a marriage license? 

Now many people who marry don&#039;t get married through a priest. Some do it through a Judge, Mayor, etc. Would a representative of the firm then perform that task?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but when was the last time I applied for a marriage license? </p>
<p>Now many people who marry don&#8217;t get married through a priest. Some do it through a Judge, Mayor, etc. Would a representative of the firm then perform that task?</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9133</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9133</guid>
		<description>For a fee, of course.

What? You think the government does it for FREE?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a fee, of course.</p>
<p>What? You think the government does it for FREE?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Theodore</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9132</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Theodore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9132</guid>
		<description>Understood, I seem to be over analyzing the word. 

Now what would this firm&#039;s interest be in keeping the records?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Understood, I seem to be over analyzing the word. </p>
<p>Now what would this firm&#8217;s interest be in keeping the records?</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9131</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9131</guid>
		<description>Well you don&#039;t have enough respect for contracts. I think contracts are more sanctified than marriage. The right to contract is a fundamental human right and the basis for libertarian society. It isn&#039;t something &quot;dirty.&quot; You said you wanted the government (yuck) to keep a &quot;record&quot; of marriages -- those &quot;records&quot; are rightfully contracts. And of course, it is not necessary for the government to do this. Private firms could easily keep these records.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well you don&#8217;t have enough respect for contracts. I think contracts are more sanctified than marriage. The right to contract is a fundamental human right and the basis for libertarian society. It isn&#8217;t something &#8220;dirty.&#8221; You said you wanted the government (yuck) to keep a &#8220;record&#8221; of marriages &#8212; those &#8220;records&#8221; are rightfully contracts. And of course, it is not necessary for the government to do this. Private firms could easily keep these records.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Theodore</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9130</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Theodore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9130</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always just seen marriage as two people attempting to try to make a relationship reach the stage of success. Now that doesn&#039;t work all the time, hence divorce. But then you see gay couples who are with each other for 50 years, without being allowed to be married. I hate to think of it theoretically as a &quot;contract&quot;. 
Dragging legal authority and jargon into love is what set this all up in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always just seen marriage as two people attempting to try to make a relationship reach the stage of success. Now that doesn&#8217;t work all the time, hence divorce. But then you see gay couples who are with each other for 50 years, without being allowed to be married. I hate to think of it theoretically as a &#8220;contract&#8221;.<br />
Dragging legal authority and jargon into love is what set this all up in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9129</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9129</guid>
		<description>Baldwin quite unfortunately supports DOMA. I think he thinks gay marriage should not be legal in given states. But he, as president, would not seek to ban gay marriage in California, for instance.

My opinion is that marriage should be a contract between two (or more) individuals who can call it whatever they want. I think government recognition of something called &quot;marriage&quot; is divisive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baldwin quite unfortunately supports DOMA. I think he thinks gay marriage should not be legal in given states. But he, as president, would not seek to ban gay marriage in California, for instance.</p>
<p>My opinion is that marriage should be a contract between two (or more) individuals who can call it whatever they want. I think government recognition of something called &#8220;marriage&#8221; is divisive.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Theodore</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9128</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Theodore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9128</guid>
		<description>So I&#039;d expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I&#8217;d expect.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/chuck-baldwin-on-religious-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-9127</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1318#comment-9127</guid>
		<description>Put it this way: Abolishing the office of the Register of Deeds and County Clerk would be very very low on the anarchist agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Put it this way: Abolishing the office of the Register of Deeds and County Clerk would be very very low on the anarchist agenda.</p>
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