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	<title>Comments on: Barr won&#8217;t debate other third-party candidates</title>
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	<description>Covering America's third parties and independent candidates since May 2008</description>
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		<title>By: Fred Church Ortiz</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11526</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Church Ortiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 03:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11526</guid>
		<description>Oh, and this one:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/128548.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and this one:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/128548.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.reason.com/news/show/128548.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Fred Church Ortiz</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11525</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Church Ortiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 03:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11525</guid>
		<description>I dug up this post to answer GE&#039;s question of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/#comment-9164&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;August 14th&lt;/a&gt;.  Disinter&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://disinter.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/back-from-the-rally-for-the-republic&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;review&lt;/a&gt; of the rally points out the following:

http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128504.html
http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128518.html
http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128525.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dug up this post to answer GE&#8217;s question of <a href="http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/#comment-9164" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">August 14th</a>.  Disinter&#8217;s <a href="http://disinter.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/back-from-the-rally-for-the-republic" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">review</a> of the rally points out the following:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128504.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128504.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128518.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128518.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128525.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128525.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11152</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 22:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11152</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve done an analysis on this matter -- you can search for yourself. But the easy fact of the matter is that Barr&#039;s final tally was more than the first-round sum of Barr + Root.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve done an analysis on this matter &#8212; you can search for yourself. But the easy fact of the matter is that Barr&#8217;s final tally was more than the first-round sum of Barr + Root.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBianca</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11147</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBianca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11147</guid>
		<description>Also keep in mind that Barr only got 101 of W.A.R.&#039;s 165 delegate votes from the 5th ballot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also keep in mind that Barr only got 101 of W.A.R.&#8217;s 165 delegate votes from the 5th ballot.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBianca</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11146</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBianca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11146</guid>
		<description>Keep in mind that a few of Gravel&#039;s votes may have been Phillies voters when he was still in the running.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind that a few of Gravel&#8217;s votes may have been Phillies voters when he was still in the running.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBianca</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11145</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBianca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11145</guid>
		<description>G.E., by my count, Barr beat Mary by 48 votes on the 6th ballot.  I didn&#039;t ask each and every Gravel and Phillies supporters how they voted when their candidate was dropped from the ballot, but most of the Phillies supporters (especially the Outright Libertarians) went to Mary, or NOTA.  Unless 2/3 of Gravel&#039;s 71 votes went to Barr, I don&#039;t agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G.E., by my count, Barr beat Mary by 48 votes on the 6th ballot.  I didn&#8217;t ask each and every Gravel and Phillies supporters how they voted when their candidate was dropped from the ballot, but most of the Phillies supporters (especially the Outright Libertarians) went to Mary, or NOTA.  Unless 2/3 of Gravel&#8217;s 71 votes went to Barr, I don&#8217;t agree.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11144</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11144</guid>
		<description>Steve - No. Without the Gravel (socialists) and Phillies (libertine liberals) delegates, he would not have won. WAR supporters going over to Barr was always expected. The f&#039;d up thing is the commies Gravel brought with him along with the libertine wing that supported Philies both gave Barr the votes he needed to win a plurality (not a majority) of the delegates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve &#8211; No. Without the Gravel (socialists) and Phillies (libertine liberals) delegates, he would not have won. WAR supporters going over to Barr was always expected. The f&#8217;d up thing is the commies Gravel brought with him along with the libertine wing that supported Philies both gave Barr the votes he needed to win a plurality (not a majority) of the delegates.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBianca</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11143</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBianca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11143</guid>
		<description>I said, &quot;He essentially thumbed his nose at Libertarian delegates . . . he was confident that he had the votes to win the nomination.&quot;

That is, Barr thumbed his nose at  REAL Libertarians who were delegates.  A large contingent of delegates who supported Barr in Denver are phonies, i.e. conservatives.  

Also remember, without W.A.R. supporters (more phony Libertarians), Barr would not have won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said, &#8220;He essentially thumbed his nose at Libertarian delegates . . . he was confident that he had the votes to win the nomination.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is, Barr thumbed his nose at  REAL Libertarians who were delegates.  A large contingent of delegates who supported Barr in Denver are phonies, i.e. conservatives.  </p>
<p>Also remember, without W.A.R. supporters (more phony Libertarians), Barr would not have won.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11142</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11142</guid>
		<description>Yeah, and so did Bush. Twice. And the 14th amendment was &quot;ratified.&quot;

Barr did not have the votes necessary to win the nomination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, and so did Bush. Twice. And the 14th amendment was &#8220;ratified.&#8221;</p>
<p>Barr did not have the votes necessary to win the nomination.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11138</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11138</guid>
		<description>He won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He won.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11137</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11137</guid>
		<description>No, he didn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, he didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11135</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11135</guid>
		<description>He did have the votes to win the nominatioin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He did have the votes to win the nominatioin.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBianca</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-11124</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBianca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-11124</guid>
		<description>Thomas L. Knapp  // Aug 14, 2008 at 2:16 pm

&lt;i&gt;Barr participated in a debate with Root and Gravel, sponsored by Reason magazine.&lt;/i&gt;

I wasn&#039;t aware of such a debate, and frankly, neither did virtually everybody else.

&lt;i&gt;He also participated in the â€œofficialâ€ candidate debate at the LPâ€™s national convention. That debate was in no way â€œcarefully regulated to discourage candidate criticismsâ€ &lt;/i&gt;

Wow Tom!  That debate may not have been &quot;Carefully regulated&quot;, but controversial questions, like the two I put in were swept aside.  Barr, W.A.R. and yes Kubby and Ruwart could have been put on the spot, but weren&#039;t.  This was no debate . . . it was just a show for C-Span. 

&lt;i&gt;Did Barr participate in the FNN debate with Root and Gravel? I canâ€™t remember whether he did or not.&lt;/i&gt;

No, he blew that off.  

Finally, the &quot;unofficial&quot; debate in Denver had participation of EVERY candidate (not John Finan) EXCEPT Barr.  Barr thinks he is too good for libertarians. He essentially thumbed his nose at Libertarian delegates . . . he was confident that he had the votes to win the nomination.  He&#039;s a piece of Sh*t!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas L. Knapp  // Aug 14, 2008 at 2:16 pm</p>
<p><i>Barr participated in a debate with Root and Gravel, sponsored by Reason magazine.</i></p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware of such a debate, and frankly, neither did virtually everybody else.</p>
<p><i>He also participated in the â€œofficialâ€ candidate debate at the LPâ€™s national convention. That debate was in no way â€œcarefully regulated to discourage candidate criticismsâ€ </i></p>
<p>Wow Tom!  That debate may not have been &#8220;Carefully regulated&#8221;, but controversial questions, like the two I put in were swept aside.  Barr, W.A.R. and yes Kubby and Ruwart could have been put on the spot, but weren&#8217;t.  This was no debate . . . it was just a show for C-Span. </p>
<p><i>Did Barr participate in the FNN debate with Root and Gravel? I canâ€™t remember whether he did or not.</i></p>
<p>No, he blew that off.  </p>
<p>Finally, the &#8220;unofficial&#8221; debate in Denver had participation of EVERY candidate (not John Finan) EXCEPT Barr.  Barr thinks he is too good for libertarians. He essentially thumbed his nose at Libertarian delegates . . . he was confident that he had the votes to win the nomination.  He&#8217;s a piece of Sh*t!</p>
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		<title>By: ElfNinosMom</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-9842</link>
		<dc:creator>ElfNinosMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-9842</guid>
		<description>How amusing that Barr points to only one poll showing him at 6% (which was interestingly enough an internet poll, which explains why he feels the need to say it is &quot;very legitimate&quot;), while ignoring the dozens of conventional polls which are every bit as legitimate and non-partisan (if not more so, since internet polls can be easily manipulated) but which all consistently show him polling at 2-3%.  Furthermore, the polls show him &lt;i&gt;losing&lt;/i&gt; support.  I looked at two polls a few days ago (the Zogby telephone poll and a Harris poll) and those polls showed he was polling at 2%, and worse, that he had lost about half the support he had when they first started including him.  

Even if we look at only the Zogby poll in question, he still has nowhere near enough popular support to get his foot in the door during a McCain/Obama debate.  He certainly isn&#039;t trailing so far ahead of the other third party candidates that it is somehow beneath him to debate them.

So yes, Barr should debate the other third party candidates.  At this point, he needs LOTS of additional support, since he is nowhere near (even according to the Zogby poll he prefers to mention) the 15% support necessary to participate in the PDC debates.

To not do so, when the vast majority of polls show him running head-to-head against Ralph Nader, is only arrogance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How amusing that Barr points to only one poll showing him at 6% (which was interestingly enough an internet poll, which explains why he feels the need to say it is &#8220;very legitimate&#8221;), while ignoring the dozens of conventional polls which are every bit as legitimate and non-partisan (if not more so, since internet polls can be easily manipulated) but which all consistently show him polling at 2-3%.  Furthermore, the polls show him <i>losing</i> support.  I looked at two polls a few days ago (the Zogby telephone poll and a Harris poll) and those polls showed he was polling at 2%, and worse, that he had lost about half the support he had when they first started including him.  </p>
<p>Even if we look at only the Zogby poll in question, he still has nowhere near enough popular support to get his foot in the door during a McCain/Obama debate.  He certainly isn&#8217;t trailing so far ahead of the other third party candidates that it is somehow beneath him to debate them.</p>
<p>So yes, Barr should debate the other third party candidates.  At this point, he needs LOTS of additional support, since he is nowhere near (even according to the Zogby poll he prefers to mention) the 15% support necessary to participate in the PDC debates.</p>
<p>To not do so, when the vast majority of polls show him running head-to-head against Ralph Nader, is only arrogance.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-9538</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 04:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-9538</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read any of the other comments, but here&#039;s my view:

I&#039;m not surprised at all that Barr is taking a position that gives as little information to the voting public as possible, and he is playing a smaller version of the same games that major campaigns play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read any of the other comments, but here&#8217;s my view:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not surprised at all that Barr is taking a position that gives as little information to the voting public as possible, and he is playing a smaller version of the same games that major campaigns play.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-9339</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-9339</guid>
		<description>&quot;Jumped down his throat?&quot;

Wow.

I parenthetically noted that &quot;Troofer&quot; is a &quot;statist slur&quot; in my opinion. 

I think I steered clear of Mr. Perkins&#039;s throat.

Really. Look at yourself. You&#039;re saying THIS is &quot;jumping down someone&#039;s throat&quot;? 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, there was also a debate concurrent with the â€œTrooferâ€ (statist slur) forum.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then you are &lt;b&gt;&quot;reality deprived&quot;&lt;/b&gt;.

BTW: Holocaust deniers object to the notion that the state committed evil. 9/11 &quot;Truthers&quot; are the opposite.

Whoops.. Did I just &quot;jump down your throat&quot;? I can&#039;t be sure since you seem soooo sensitive. Can you go out in public without staining your t-shirt?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jumped down his throat?&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>I parenthetically noted that &#8220;Troofer&#8221; is a &#8220;statist slur&#8221; in my opinion. </p>
<p>I think I steered clear of Mr. Perkins&#8217;s throat.</p>
<p>Really. Look at yourself. You&#8217;re saying THIS is &#8220;jumping down someone&#8217;s throat&#8221;? </p>
<blockquote><p>Well, there was also a debate concurrent with the â€œTrooferâ€ (statist slur) forum.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then you are <b>&#8220;reality deprived&#8221;</b>.</p>
<p>BTW: Holocaust deniers object to the notion that the state committed evil. 9/11 &#8220;Truthers&#8221; are the opposite.</p>
<p>Whoops.. Did I just &#8220;jump down your throat&#8221;? I can&#8217;t be sure since you seem soooo sensitive. Can you go out in public without staining your t-shirt?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gillis</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-9338</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gillis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-9338</guid>
		<description>&quot;Libertarians donâ€™t try to speech police.&quot; 

What are you talking about? You just jumped down Perkins&#039; throat for calling a spade a spade.

Calling out bad ideas as bad ideas isn&#039;t policing them. It&#039;s challenging them. Because ideas SHOULD be challenged. And they are not inherently deserving of respect, no more than they can withstand scrutiny.

Otherwise, I&#039;m sure you&#039;re going to call me out for &quot;slurring&quot; people when they present all other sorts of ridiculous ideas, like the Flat Earthers and Holocaust deniers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Libertarians donâ€™t try to speech police.&#8221; </p>
<p>What are you talking about? You just jumped down Perkins&#8217; throat for calling a spade a spade.</p>
<p>Calling out bad ideas as bad ideas isn&#8217;t policing them. It&#8217;s challenging them. Because ideas SHOULD be challenged. And they are not inherently deserving of respect, no more than they can withstand scrutiny.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re going to call me out for &#8220;slurring&#8221; people when they present all other sorts of ridiculous ideas, like the Flat Earthers and Holocaust deniers.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-9337</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-9337</guid>
		<description>You can say whatever you want. Libertarians don&#039;t try to speech police. I was just letting your fellow statist know that using that term exposes you as a shill for the State.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can say whatever you want. Libertarians don&#8217;t try to speech police. I was just letting your fellow statist know that using that term exposes you as a shill for the State.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gillis</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-1/#comment-9336</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gillis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-9336</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say Troofer? How about a more PC term, like &quot;Reality Deprived&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say Troofer? How about a more PC term, like &#8220;Reality Deprived&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Perkins</title>
		<link>http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/08/barr-wont-debate-other-third-party-candidates/comment-page-1/#comment-9332</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?p=1342#comment-9332</guid>
		<description>Dammit!  First I learn that the word retarded is &quot;hate speech&quot;, and now Troofer is off the table too?  This week sucks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dammit!  First I learn that the word retarded is &#8220;hate speech&#8221;, and now Troofer is off the table too?  This week sucks&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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